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Budget LPVO or solid red dot?

Jmccracken1214

Jmccracken1214

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    • Dec 10, 2018
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    Thomasville, NC
    I’ve got 4 ar’s all with red dots except my most recent 18” which has no optic…
    I’d love to drop $1200+ on a lpvo but having our 3rd child in 2 days, it’s kind of a no go.

    Not sure how realistic or important having a rifle with lpvo instead of a red dot is, but would y’all suggest a budget 400-500 lpvo or something like a aimpoint pro ? I do have a holosun aems which I like pretty good…. But I know some here don’t like them because of where they are made… love my aimpoint pro, but it’s heavier than the aems…
     
    I'd hold off on magnified optics until you can cross the price gap into Nightforce territory. I totally understand the kid thing - I thought shooting was a money pit :). In the $500 range, you're better off getting a decent red dot than a low-end scope. Once you can swing it financially, the high-end glass really is worth it. Otherwise you drop like $1500 to look through vaseline.

    If you have a specific application, like shooting across a holler, that you need magnification for, then I'd consider the LPVO. Otherwise trees basically limit you to ranges where you don't need magnification or fine holdovers. If you lived in the arid west it would be a different story.
     
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    No real “use” for it… just wanted it since I have some 10.5, 14.5 and 16”…

    Good point on the optics. May just go with another aimpoint pro.
     
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    Jmccracken1214 said:
    I’ve got 4 ar’s all with red dots except my most recent 18” which has no optic…
    I’d love to drop $1200+ on a lpvo but having our 3rd child in 2 days, it’s kind of a no go.

    Not sure how realistic or important having a rifle with lpvo instead of a red dot is, but would y’all suggest a budget 400-500 lpvo or something like a aimpoint pro ? I do have a holosun aems which I like pretty good…. But I know some here don’t like them because of where they are made… love my aimpoint pro, but it’s heavier than the aems…
    Click to expand...
    I'm not as big of a glass snob as some here but appreciate good glass. The vortex PST gen 2 1-6 is a great lpvo and there's nothing it's noticeable lacking in compared to high end lpvo's. That's not to say the razor isn't nicer but when actually shooting I've never noticed a difference.

    And I would say other guy who said NF or bust is very wrong. I'd take a PST over the NX8 personally. Not to say the NX8 is awful, but it's a little underwhelming given NF's reputation and the cost of it. No experience with the atacr
     
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    taboopineapple said:
    I'm not as big of a glass snob as some here but appreciate good glass. The vortex PST gen 2 1-6 is a great lpvo and there's nothing it's noticeable lacking in compared to high end lpvo's. That's not to say the razor isn't nicer but when actually shooting I've never noticed a difference.

    And I would say other guy who said NF or bust is very wrong. I'd take a PST over the NX8 personally. Not to say the NX8 is awful, but it's a little underwhelming given NF's reputation and the cost of it. No experience with the atacr
    Click to expand...
    I agree with most of this. I'll disagree on the point that the Razor and PST are the same in use. The PST eyebox is a bit tighter at 1x and way tighter at 6x. Still very usable but the Razor is pretty much the gold standard.
     
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    Vortex Strike Eagles work too. A used one should be very reasonable in this budget. Find the reticle you like and see if the LPVO is your thing. I've seen plenty of Strike Eagles used in A-stan. I found I don't like LPVO. I'd rather have a parallax adj. optic with a red dot on top. Faster engagements at all ranges for me. YMMV
    Enjoy the process😬
     
    I would also recommend to check out the Delta Stryker 1-6 from darnfineshot.com for the East Coast. Great optic with awesome brightness on the illuminated center red dot. You get discounts if you use certain payment methods and they offer .mil discount. I put it in between the PST and Razor, closer to the Razor IMHO.
     
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    Jmccracken1214 said:
    No real “use” for it… just wanted it since I have some 10.5, 14.5 and 16”…

    Good point on the optics. May just go with another aimpoint pro.
    Click to expand...
    I put an Athlon Ares 1-10 on my precision ar. I really like it. The only "issues" I've had is the center dot being a little bit large for shootings groups in load development but I can mag out and get to a spot where I can see my little poa and have the dot small enough and I shot .38" group while still testing so it ain't too big of a deal right?

    The Ares is a nice middle ground for an AR scope imo. $850 for serviceable glass and solid warranty. It's not zco (which I have 2 of) but it's pretty good and I shoot 500 and beyond with it easily. It's small enough that it's not an obstruction but gives enough mag to get out there a little bit. I'd look at that or something like it. The eotech vudu is another that's underrated imo but that's a different price point and if you are going to spend that just buy a used S&B or March on here for 2k-ish and be really happy with it. I'm considering doing that too but probably going to hold off for now since I'm trying to be a good boy and not spend as much on gun stuff until Christmas and the sales.
     
    Grab a SWFA fixed 6x with an offset holosun (or offset irons).
    Come out under $500 for both, tracks perfectly, holds zero, nearly indestructible, perfect optic for taking a 223 to the limits, and when you decide to move on you won't lose more than $50. Way better eyebox and light gathering than a 1-x anyhow. I doubt a lpvo at any price compares strictly on 6x.

    Everyone should own a handful of super chickens. It's honestly the only magnified optic 95% of us actually need. I've pulled multiple atacrs off rifles and put the 6x on in their place because most the time the weight isn't necessary.
     
    Last edited:
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    You could just grab a 1-4 PST as a place holder until you get what you really want. They're solid enough and you can find the first gens on sale for under $350.
     
    1. Get the LPVO, and get used to using it. The weight and the eye box will be an adjustment. In the beginning, it might be frustrating.

    2. 1-6 is plenty of magnification. The higher the magnification, the more important the quality. A good 1-6 is better than a bad 1-10. The Vortex Viper PST Gen II 1-6x24 is very good for your purposes.
     
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    Cheap LPVO’s are trash. Shitty quality/reliability, and usually other function issues such as not true 1x so they fish eye and have a bad eye box.

    For $400-$500 a good red dot is the way to go. Decent LPVO’s start at a grand. A used 1-6 Razor is your best bet for a LPVO without spending a lot of money.
     
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    redneckbmxer24 said:
    Cheap LPVO’s are trash. Shitty quality/reliability, and usually other function issues such as not true 1x so they fish eye and have a bad eye box.

    For $400-$500 a good red dot is the way to go. Decent LPVO’s start at a grand. A used 1-6 Razor is your best bet for a LPVO without spending a lot of money.
    Click to expand...
    I disagree. I think the RT6 and PST 1-6 both have flatter 1x’s and maybe more forgiving eyeboxes than the razor 1-10 or nx8 despite being >$1k cheaper. Plenty of good respectable lpvos under $1k that have already been mentioned.

    I don’t think I’ve heard any users of the RT6 or PST’s with negative experiences unrelated to QC. Budget lpvos have come a long way. Just stay away from <$1k 1-8’s or-1-10’s and you’ll be fine
     
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    Pick one AR and put a good optic on it. I have the same issue with too many ARs but you really only need one that is your go-to carbine.

    A lightly used Steiner P4Xi will serve most people well, and you can shoot 10" steel targets out to 400 yards and beyond with it.
     
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    nutation said:
    I'd hold off on magnified optics until you can cross the price gap into Nightforce territory. I totally understand the kid thing - I thought shooting was a money pit :). In the $500 range, you're better off getting a decent red dot than a low-end scope. Once you can swing it financially, the high-end glass really is worth it. Otherwise you drop like $1500 to look through vaseline.
    Click to expand...
    Bullshit


    nutation said:
    Otherwise trees basically limit you to ranges where you don't need magnification or fine holdovers. If you lived in the arid west it would be a different story.
    Click to expand...
    More bullshit
     
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    I had a pst gen 2 1-6. Pretty clear optic. Ended up selling it and putting a xtriii on that rifle. My shirt boi has a t2 and vortex micro 3x. I want a atacr 1-8 but I also want another rifle to put on it. I just can’t bring myself to spend that much money. Even with the mil discount. I wish @Primary Arms would release there new lpvo with different reticle options because Iv heard nothing but good stuff about it.
     
    I see much bullshit in this thread.
    The Burris RT-6 is a solid optic, if you don't plan on dialing (the turrets don't take kindly to being reset, and it isn't easy)
    They have really good glass and a good holdover reticle.
    Doug has an open box one on sale that I would jump on if I were you:

    Product Description

    Product Description | Camera Land NY
    cameralandny.com cameralandny.com

    Here is a complete unit, ready to rock:

    Product Description

    Product Description | Camera Land NY
    cameralandny.com cameralandny.com
    @gr8fuldoug
     
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    You have a litter of kids. Get one of these, go beat it up. You will find out if you like this style of scope. If you don't like it or you break it, take it of and let thye kids play with it.

     
    SanPatHogger said:
    You have a litter of kids. Get one of these, go beat it up. You will find out if you like this style of scope. If you don't like it or you break it, take it of and let thye kids play with it.

    Click to expand...

    How will he decide if he likes LPVO's if all he's looked through is a pile of dogshit that's not in any way representative of the category as a whole?
     
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    I
    TonyTheTiger said:
    How will he decide if he likes LPVO's if all he's looked through is a pile of dogshit that's not in any way representative of the category as a whole?
    Click to expand...
    I have one in 4-14 on my 10/22. It works nice and the image is clear. If you don't like it you're only out $100-150 dollars.
    He said money is tight right now. You can't get much cheaper without being made of plastic.
     
    The OP is used to red dots. A cheap LPVO is nothing like a red dot. An expensive LPVO can be used like a red dot. If he wants to do any high speed low drag stuff that scope is going to disappoint and probably sour him on LPVO's till the end of time.
    A PST II or a P4XI are about as cheap as really fast LPVO's come. Honorable mention for the RT6. Anything less is just a magnified optic that happens to go to 1x but isn't ideal there.
     
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    If your budget goes to $500 you can definitely grab a PST 1-6 on sale easily. I'm very happy with mine for the money. I shoot mine both eyes open at 1x and the 6x helps stretch things out further than I would easily take a red dot.
     
    CaptArab said:
    Grab a SWFA fixed 6x with an offset holosun (or offset irons).
    Come out under $500 for both, tracks perfectly, holds zero, nearly indestructible, perfect optic for taking a 223 to the limits, and when you decide to move on you won't lose more than $50. Way better eyebox and light gathering than a 1-x anyhow. I doubt a lpvo at any price compares strictly on 6x.

    Everyone should own a handful of super chickens. It's honestly the only magnified optic 95% of us actually need. I've pulled multiple atacrs off rifles and put the 6x on in their place because most the🌱 time the weight isn't necessary.
    Click to expand...

    This right here. SWFA fixed 6x punches above its price point, and is made in Japan.
     
    I think the PST G2 1-6x is a very nice optic for the $ that will fits what you've described well. It compared well to the Razor for non duty usage. Around $500 new sometimes on sale. Glass is good, not just for the $.

    Skip the old PST gen 1, 1-4x version as the glass is so bad it will make you claw your eyes out after a few minutes of usage.

    ---

    That said, here is a friendly recommendation to run that carbine irons only and focus on prepping your home, planning, and resting for the upcoming birth of your next child.

    There is arguably a better use of your time/energy right now. Relax and spend time with wife, remind her how much you love and support her. Take special care of the other kids, be the best husband & dad possible at this time.

    Support your other kids and give them all the attention you can as the baby will take up 2 days minimum of total attention and from then on will have the spotlight instead of them.

    Don't leave it to others (grandparents, other adults) to be the emotional support for your current children.

    You have the rest of your life to debate glass on a gun. That $ could stay in your bank account for adulting expenses, diapers, wipes, sleep sacks, baby monitors, mattresses.


    If you feel the itch to spend $$$, here, let us help you:


    www.owletcare.com

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    The Original Bamboo Sleep Bag ™The one that started it all: Our most-loved, best-selling sleep bag in Sage. A wearable blanket that helps baby fall asleep (and stay asleep), so you’re not up all night. Designed to be safe sleep, diaper change friendly, temperature-regulating, and so soft you’ll...
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    You only have 1-5 days or so to enjoy your time as a father to be again.

    Best wishes to you, your wife, your kids, and your extended family and parents. You are blessed.

    If you don't have a crib/movement baby monitor (that monitors breathing), get that first. Sell guns and glass to get it if you don't. Doesn't have to be Owlet as it's pricey. Just have something. No co-sleeping.

    That mattress is awesome by the way. Not a gimmick. It's the AI of baby mattresses. NOBODY I know has returned or complained about it having bought it. The design is genius and the materials used are top notch. You can stick your face straight down into it and breathe right through it cover and all. Zero complaints about it other than price. My wife used to be a well-known baby gear tester/blogger.

    Your time & $$$. Spend it the way you wish. Congrats on being a dad again!!!
     
    Last edited:
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    pineoak said:
    I think the PST G2 1-6x is a very nice optic for the $ that will fits what you've described well. It compared well to the Razor for non duty usage. Around $500 new sometimes on sale. Glass is good, not just for the $.

    Skip the old PST gen 1, 1-4x version as the glass is so bad it will make you claw your eyes out after a few minutes of usage.

    ---

    That said, here is a friendly recommendation to run that carbine irons only and focus on prepping your home, planning, and resting for the upcoming birth of your next child.

    There is arguably a better use of your time/energy right now. Relax and spend time with wife, remind her how much you love and support her. Take special care of the other kids, be the best husband & dad possible at this time.

    Support your other kids and give them all the attention you can as the baby will take up 2 days minimum of total attention and from then on will have the spotlight instead of them.

    Don't leave it to others (grandparents, other adults) to be the emotional support for your current children.

    You have the rest of your life to debate glass on a gun. That $ could stay in your bank account for adulting expenses, diapers, wipes, sleep sacks, baby monitors, mattresses.


    If you feel the itch to spend $$$, here, let us help you:


    www.owletcare.com

    Baby Sleep Monitor: Track Your Baby's Sleep

    Monitor what matters. Track your baby's sleep patterns — all while streaming live video. Learn more today.
    www.owletcare.com www.owletcare.com

    www.newtonbaby.com

    Crib Mattress | Newton Baby

    Sleep well. Our 100% breathable & washable crib mattress is 5.5 inches thick and features a soft, quilted removable cover.
    www.newtonbaby.com www.newtonbaby.com

    kytebaby.com

    Sleep Bag in Sage 1.0

    The Original Bamboo Sleep Bag ™The one that started it all: Our most-loved, best-selling sleep bag in Sage. A wearable blanket that helps baby fall asleep (and stay asleep), so you’re not up all night. Designed to be safe sleep, diaper change friendly, temperature-regulating, and so soft you’ll...
    kytebaby.com kytebaby.com



    You only have 1-5 days or so to enjoy your time as a father to be again.

    Best wishes to you, your wife, your kids, and your extended family and parents. You are blessed.

    If you don't have a crib/movement baby monitor (that monitors breathing), get that first. Sell guns and glass to get it if you don't. Doesn't have to be Owlet as it's pricey. Just have something. No co-sleeping.

    That mattress is awesome by the way. Not a gimmick. It's the AI of baby mattresses. NOBODY I know has returned or complained about it having bought it. The design is genius and the materials used are top notch. You can stick your face straight down into it and breathe right through it cover and all. Zero complaints about it other than price. My wife used to be a well-known baby gear tester/blogger.

    Your time & $$$. Spend it the way you wish. Congrats on being a dad again!!!
    Click to expand...
    Can’t like this enough. The amount of money I’ve had to throw into diapers, sleep sacks, formula, etc with twins. And the constant lack of sleep.

    Toys can wait. Take care of the upcoming kid man. And take care of the wife and yourself.
     
    How about a quality RDS + magnifier?

    You don’t have to make the whole investment at once and you will end up with a capable and versatile setup.

    I used to really dislike the idea of magnifiers due to the bulky side folding designs.

    The Unity Tactical flip to center is awesome. I’ve completely changed my view on them.

    I would recommend a Razor 1-6 or T2 or Eotech + Mangifer (all in Unity mounts/heights)
     
    When I went Eotech I got the HHS package which is both the Holographic sight and G33 magnifier together. When I decided to get my Aimpont from LaRue I checked out the height for the LaRue mounts w/one of them coming close to the optical center height of the G33 so now I have the Eotech holographic sight on one long gun, and the Aimpoint on another, and I can pretty much switch the G33 between either one.

    The G33 also comes w/a spacer you can take off. My first priorities buying this were my bad eyesight (until my implant surgeries), HD in an urban area and what was attractive about the Eotech holographic sight was it's a big window, no dancing around w/an eyebox.

    The pic here is the Aimpoint/G33 on one of my V12's I use w/slugs but also works like a champ on one of the MR762's.

    I don't have a LPVO, so I keep thinking about getting one, but since you have a new member of the family on the way, I'll tell you what my wife does to me when she thinks I've bought enough for awhile and need a rest.

    She gives me a hug, she smiles and says, "do we really need that right now". FEMALE TRANSLATION----Don't forget fixing the garage door. She's so sweet about it, that more often than not, I'll say, "FUCK the thing, I'll get it later".



    G33-Aim-Point4-W.jpg
     
    Last edited:
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    pineoak said:
    I think the PST G2 1-6x is a very nice optic for the $ that will fits what you've described well. It compared well to the Razor for non duty usage. Around $500 new sometimes on sale. Glass is good, not just for the $.

    Skip the old PST gen 1, 1-4x version as the glass is so bad it will make you claw your eyes out after a few minutes of usage.

    ---

    That said, here is a friendly recommendation to run that carbine irons only and focus on prepping your home, planning, and resting for the upcoming birth of your next child.

    There is arguably a better use of your time/energy right now. Relax and spend time with wife, remind her how much you love and support her. Take special care of the other kids, be the best husband & dad possible at this time.

    Support your other kids and give them all the attention you can as the baby will take up 2 days minimum of total attention and from then on will have the spotlight instead of them.

    Don't leave it to others (grandparents, other adults) to be the emotional support for your current children.

    You have the rest of your life to debate glass on a gun. That $ could stay in your bank account for adulting expenses, diapers, wipes, sleep sacks, baby monitors, mattresses.


    If you feel the itch to spend $$$, here, let us help you:


    www.owletcare.com

    Baby Sleep Monitor: Track Your Baby's Sleep

    Monitor what matters. Track your baby's sleep patterns — all while streaming live video. Learn more today.
    www.owletcare.com www.owletcare.com

    www.newtonbaby.com

    Crib Mattress | Newton Baby

    Sleep well. Our 100% breathable & washable crib mattress is 5.5 inches thick and features a soft, quilted removable cover.
    www.newtonbaby.com www.newtonbaby.com

    kytebaby.com

    Sleep Bag in Sage 1.0

    The Original Bamboo Sleep Bag ™The one that started it all: Our most-loved, best-selling sleep bag in Sage. A wearable blanket that helps baby fall asleep (and stay asleep), so you’re not up all night. Designed to be safe sleep, diaper change friendly, temperature-regulating, and so soft you’ll...
    kytebaby.com kytebaby.com



    You only have 1-5 days or so to enjoy your time as a father to be again.

    Best wishes to you, your wife, your kids, and your extended family and parents. You are blessed.

    If you don't have a crib/movement baby monitor (that monitors breathing), get that first. Sell guns and glass to get it if you don't. Doesn't have to be Owlet as it's pricey. Just have something. No co-sleeping.

    That mattress is awesome by the way. Not a gimmick. It's the AI of baby mattresses. NOBODY I know has returned or complained about it having bought it. The design is genius and the materials used are top notch. You can stick your face straight down into it and breathe right through it cover and all. Zero complaints about it other than price. My wife used to be a well-known baby gear tester/blogger.

    Your time & $$$. Spend it the way you wish. Congrats on being a dad again!!!
    Click to expand...
    Thanks for the post. We are luckily set up pretty good for stuff for the baby. But I’ve been thinking and will either wait a deal on a pst gen 2 1-6, or just swap red dots around and run a cheaper beater AR with irons only for the time being.

    We had the baby this morning at 8:23. In the hospital taking it easy for the next few days. Had a healthy baby girl.

    The red dot deal may end up with a cheapy bushnell tr26 on my pistol, aems on my 14.5” go to rifle and the aimpoint pro on this 18” until I get a 1-6
     
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    This, having looked through all of these I concur with this video completely.

    I think the Stryker/Credo(just the one in this video) is where the real value is in the LPVO market right now that gives good glass, are reliable and you won't "need" to upgrade and lose money in the future.
     
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    I’m still undecided on the way I’m gonna do it, I put the AEMS on the 18” for now to keep it lighter, and the aimpoint pro on my go to 14.5” since that’s already heavier with the light… and the pro is probably tougher.

    Not sure I want to do the lpvo on the 18” due to weight, it’s nice with almost nothing on it.
    Maybe a prism scope or acog with offset irons.
     
    Jmccracken1214 said:
    I’m still undecided on the way I’m gonna do it, I put the AEMS on the 18” for now to keep it lighter, and the aimpoint pro on my go to 14.5” since that’s already heavier with the light… and the pro is probably tougher.

    Not sure I want to do the lpvo on the 18” due to weight, it’s nice with almost nothing on it.
    Maybe a prism scope or acog with offset irons.
    Click to expand...
    Why take the length and weight penalty of an 18" without utilizing the velocity advantage paired with magnification to get hits beyond what your eyes can see?
     
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    TonyTheTiger said:
    Why take the length and weight penalty of an 18" without utilizing the velocity advantage paired with magnification to get hits beyond what your eyes can see?
    Click to expand...
    This

    I put a 3-15 PST II on my 18” gun. Once you put a suppressor on it you aren’t doing shit with it that you want a red dot or 1x mag for. That is a lay down on the ground with a bipod and a rear bag gun. It’s pretty satisfying hitting 800 yard targets with a 223 gas gun.

    Leave the LPVO for the shorter guns
     
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    Jmccracken1214 said:
    I’ve got 4 ar’s all with red dots except my most recent 18” which has no optic…
    I’d love to drop $1200+ on a lpvo but having our 3rd child in 2 days, it’s kind of a no go.
    Click to expand...

    Seems unnecessarily redundant in the face of a performance gap (no magnification).

    Sorry, but the way people leverage into quantity over quality and make these inquiries into "best LPVO for $500" mystifies me.
     
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    I started out with a chinesium lvpo that was acceptable when I didn't know better. A few Vortex PRS scopes later, turns out that that chinesium scope sucks out loud glass wise. Cost me about $100 so I'm not too upset

    Got myself a Strike Eagle 1-8 and it's MUCH better for gas gun matches

    M
     
    dms416 said:
    Sorry, but the way people leverage into quantity over quality and make these inquiries into "best LPVO for $500" mystifies me.
    Click to expand...
    It's the Russian and Chinese way. Americans should work hard and buy smart. Sorry for the rant OP.
     
    Maybe it's just me and the way I am, but I went through several Chinese lpvos and I thought they were fine.... until I saw something coming out of Japanese OEMs. Looking back I should have cried once and bought once. My advice/opinion is if you have an idea of upgrading at all in the future, just wait until you can get into something you really want. Again, I don't think you have to go over 1k to get an excellent lpvo(the ones I've mentioned). But I think at $500 your so close($200-300 more) to getting something that is future proofed I would just save an extra few months.

    Along with the Stryker/credo bdc hunter throw in the Tract toric 1-8x24(on sale) for quality under 1k$ or a used Burris XTRII 1-8x24(Sfp for daylight bright).
    Forgot about those 2.
     
    • Love
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    JDB55 said:
    Maybe it's just me and the way I am, but I went through several Chinese lpvos and I thought they were fine.... until I saw something coming out of Japanese OEMs. Looking back I should have cried once and bought once. My advice/opinion is if you have an idea of upgrading at all in the future, just wait until you can get into something you really want. Again, I don't think you have to go over 1k to get an excellent lpvo(the ones I've mentioned). But I think at $500 your so close($200-300 more) to getting something that is future proofed I would just save an extra few months.

    Along with the Stryker/credo bdc hunter throw in the Tract toric 1-8x24(on sale) for quality under 1k$ or a used Burris XTRII 1-8x24(Sfp for daylight bright).
    Forgot about those 2.
    Click to expand...
    Nah man, you’re right and I agree, I’ve bought cheap crap in the past and I avoid it now after learning the hard way, but sometimes for rifles I won’t or may not have huge plans for, it’s hard to drop cash on top tier. I know some of the budget stuff is actually good to go, but that’s why I was swapping red dots around for the time being.

    I’ll probably end up with a lpvo or like @PistoleroJesse said and do a 2-10’ish optic and make it a dmr.
    If the barrel won’t shoot, may upgrade to a 18-20” woa
     
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