Barrel length for that data?
I've got a 22" and run 45.6gr of Staball to hit 2868fps.
- Thread starter padom
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Barrel length for that data?
I've got a 22" and run 45.6gr of Staball to hit 2868fps.
My "gasser" is a LWRCI REPR MKII Elite in 6.5-CM ... it's awesome, but not for the faint of heart looking for a bargain AR-10. Load data follows:
Hornady brass recovered from factory cartridges
FL sized and mandrelled to .2630"
CCI 200 Large Rifle Primers
Winchester StaBall 6.5 ... 43.2 gr
Hornady 147gr ELDM projectiles
This load gives me velocities at around 2600 ft/sec with standard deviations around 10-12. If I go "up" in charge weight to get faster velocities, but I see pressure signs and higher SD's. This load shoots 1-MOA or better for me out to 1,000 yards or slightly further. If I want smaller groups, higher velocities, or longer distances ... I'll use one of my 6.5-CM bolt rifles (Tikka T3x TAC A1 or Barrett MRAD w/ 6.5-CM barrel) and I'll handload with Peterson brass and Berger 140 gr LRHT projectiles. The load above is my "economy volume load" for shooting in our local monthly Gas Gun Competition ... where it's so accurate that it's almost "not fair" competing against mere mortal gas guns.
Have you tried staball with the 143 ELD X?
I saw you post this on another thread (I thought it was a different thread). I have plenty of staball and am waiting for my gun to be completed (probably by March of next year). I have been playing with staball in my 6.5 JDJ 14 inch contender just to try it on something. I got decent groups with hornady match 140s (used them and 129 SST). Surprised the 140s got best grouping at 100 yards in that gun. Anyway, I was hoping to see some groups from these kids you got setup here for 6.5CM.
After I am couldn't get the 144 lrht's to feed because of how narrow they are, I got the 140 eldm's to run smooth with 42.0 h4350, At 2740 on a 24" proof prefit.
....that's an interesting statement. Can you elaborate on what differences the drying made and if changes occurred after storing for any period of time. I live in a locale with high humidity year round and have often wondered about this.
...LOL, I live on an island with an average year round temp of 86F and almost matching humidity, now referred to in national news as "the tip of the spear"...China even names one of their ICBM's after us, sort of
I'll be going back and reading every post on this thread.
I have an Aero M5 build with Wilson Combat Recon 16 inch 6.5cm (uses their 13.25 inch gas tube)
Several members on here cautioned me about potential issues going 16 inch in 6.5cm and why it's not straight forward like. 308.....I'm prepared to deal with them.
This build's main focus is night coyote hunting here in KY where we do a LOT of hiking in and out of sets and have a lot of places with 300-500 yard shots potentially.
Secondly, I'm over hauling my cannon (26 inch bolt gun with 9 inch from 1 can) around to deer hunt.
This build has a law gen 3 folder, Anarchy outdoors bolt plug for folding and a 6 inch titanium form1 can to complement the short barrel in order to be more handy.
I'm be using IMR 4451.....has worked amazing in my bolt rig.....even got 147ELD-M slinging to 2860fps.
I have some M118LR pmags and one ASC metal mag so far.
I'll post updates when I start working up loads and testing/measuring and using Magneetospeed
I have an Aero M5 build with Wilson Combat Recon 16 inch 6.5cm (uses their 13.25 inch gas tube)
Several members on here cautioned me about potential issues going 16 inch in 6.5cm and why it's not straight forward like. 308.....I'm prepared to deal with them.
This build's main focus is night coyote hunting here in KY where we do a LOT of hiking in and out of sets and have a lot of places with 300-500 yard shots potentially.
Secondly, I'm over hauling my cannon (26 inch bolt gun with 9 inch from 1 can) around to deer hunt.
This build has a law gen 3 folder, Anarchy outdoors bolt plug for folding and a 6 inch titanium form1 can to complement the short barrel in order to be more handy.
I'm be using IMR 4451.....has worked amazing in my bolt rig.....even got 147ELD-M slinging to 2860fps.
I have some M118LR pmags and one ASC metal mag so far.
I'll post updates when I start working up loads and testing/measuring and using Magneetospeed
Johnny's reloading bench has seen some crazy velocites using RL-26.
Can be seen here:
Has anyone else used RL-26? If so, have you seen similar velocities?
I'm building a 6.5 Creed LR-308 as we speak. Looking for common components that I can use for multiple cartridges. Already have a couple pounds of RL-26.
Best,
Can be seen here:
Has anyone else used RL-26? If so, have you seen similar velocities?
I'm building a 6.5 Creed LR-308 as we speak. Looking for common components that I can use for multiple cartridges. Already have a couple pounds of RL-26.
Best,
@ruebenski No worries. Thanks. I figured you were loading for Bolt Action when I saw your COAL.
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This IS EPIC!!!! I get 2860fps out of my 6.5cm bolt gun and 42.7 grains of IMR 4451.
Edit: I just saw yiu said this is a bolt gun load
I can load them over 43.5 grains of StaBall 6.5 and get 3/4”-1.25” at 100 yards out of my gasser. I did better with 143 ELDx over 43.2 grains of SB65. want to load mor3 of both and confirm.
I’m interested to see your build. I used the same barrel that was fluted. Fun rifle to shoot… call it the little bastard since it is so loud….I'll be going back and reading every post on this thread.
I have an Aero M5 build with Wilson Combat Recon 16 inch 6.5cm (uses their 13.25 inch gas tube)
Several members on here cautioned me about potential issues going 16 inch in 6.5cm and why it's not straight forward like. 308.....I'm prepared to deal with them.
This build's main focus is night coyote hunting here in KY where we do a LOT of hiking in and out of sets and have a lot of places with 300-500 yard shots potentially.
Secondly, I'm over hauling my cannon (26 inch bolt gun with 9 inch from 1 can) around to deer hunt.
This build has a law gen 3 folder, Anarchy outdoors bolt plug for folding and a 6 inch titanium form1 can to complement the short barrel in order to be more handy.
I'm be using IMR 4451.....has worked amazing in my bolt rig.....even got 147ELD-M slinging to 2860fps.
I have some M118LR pmags and one ASC metal mag so far.
I'll post updates when I start working up loads and testing/measuring and using Magneetospeed
The Hodgen reloading data max for a 130g using H4350 is so low its unusable when looking at the 43, 44+ grain loads people are using with a 130.
For a MK20, 6.5 using 130g Hornady ELDM and H4350, where should I even start as 39g max is laughable and I dont want to waste powder. 40 and just keep adding .5 until pressure and then really begin development?
For a MK20, 6.5 using 130g Hornady ELDM and H4350, where should I even start as 39g max is laughable and I dont want to waste powder. 40 and just keep adding .5 until pressure and then really begin development?
That sounds like a workable plan.
Anyone tried RL16 with the 130 eld?
When Hornady switched to RL16 in 2020 because they couldn't get H4350 I started seeing pressure signs on primers including cratering, then puncturing, then popped primers getting stuck in everything. Never had problems with their 4350 loadings. Of course, I can't get any powder or primers to get back into reloading, but when I can it'll be with StaBall 6.5. Oh, that's with 140 ELD-M factory loads.
A buddy of mine with a JP noticed Hornady ammo running hot even before 2020, but recently got with a small batch reloading company to make some custom loads as all the Hornday stuff is blowing primers in his JP LRP-07 now.
Do you have a source for the H4350 to RL16 powder switch? He's not a reloader, obviously, but I'd like to make him aware of it so he can compare his lots of ammo to see if the 2020 batches are really bad.
The source was Hornady. If I recall I emailed them and they called me back, that was 2020. The guy that called explained simply that when they can't get H4350 they ran a number of batches with RL16. He said it shouldn't be a problem for bolt guns but somehow I could adjust my gas system, and he did say something about others had also reported it in gas guns. I've also noticed that it gets worse as the chamber and outside temperature warms up. RL16 isn't as temp stable as H4350.
About to start reloading for my Adams Arms P2 in 6.5 Creed with the factory Voodoo 18" barrel, it seems to be under 1 moa at 1,000. I shoot suppressed through an Omega 300, so brass gets kinda carboned up. I've had many years experience loading pistol and shotgun but zero on rifle. I'm an engineer by training. I'm open to hearing any wisdom about my plan below.
I scored 4lbs of Staball 6.5, and 1,000 CCI BR primers. I would have preferred CCI 34's, but I've never had a slam fire in my life and I'll never powder on top of a proud primer. I've got 400 once fired Hornady brass from this gun. I'll start with 140 ELD-M's for now since that was the factory stuff I shot well ish to 1,000 yards.
With Forster CoAxe being unobtainable I'll grab a RCBS Rebel in the next couple of weeks. I've ordered the Redding National Match dies and I'm backordered on the overdue VLD seating stem. I'll also grab a RCBS Link for powder and verify it on my Hornady balance scale. I figure I'll crimp every round for the consistency.
I'll try the Frankford Arsenal Case thingey that power trims and has 3 other powered stations for chamfering, deburring, etc. Same with their wet tumbler for cleaning, and then dry vibrator for lube removal.
I thought I'd start with a COL of 2.800 and work a 5 step ladder at .3 grains and 5 shots per rung. Watching for pressure signs and not exceeding max published load, which appears to be 43.7 gr of StaBall. Then, I thought I'd shoot a 5 shot ladder expanding my COL from 2.800 to the 2.830 that is max for the m118LR Magpul mags. We'll see if I can shoot well enough to spot the best COL / group.
Is that the right order? Should I start at 2.830 and work towards shorter instead? I've heard the ELD bullets don't mind a longer jump, so am I too worried About COL??
Feel free to straighten me out.
I scored 4lbs of Staball 6.5, and 1,000 CCI BR primers. I would have preferred CCI 34's, but I've never had a slam fire in my life and I'll never powder on top of a proud primer. I've got 400 once fired Hornady brass from this gun. I'll start with 140 ELD-M's for now since that was the factory stuff I shot well ish to 1,000 yards.
With Forster CoAxe being unobtainable I'll grab a RCBS Rebel in the next couple of weeks. I've ordered the Redding National Match dies and I'm backordered on the overdue VLD seating stem. I'll also grab a RCBS Link for powder and verify it on my Hornady balance scale. I figure I'll crimp every round for the consistency.
I'll try the Frankford Arsenal Case thingey that power trims and has 3 other powered stations for chamfering, deburring, etc. Same with their wet tumbler for cleaning, and then dry vibrator for lube removal.
I thought I'd start with a COL of 2.800 and work a 5 step ladder at .3 grains and 5 shots per rung. Watching for pressure signs and not exceeding max published load, which appears to be 43.7 gr of StaBall. Then, I thought I'd shoot a 5 shot ladder expanding my COL from 2.800 to the 2.830 that is max for the m118LR Magpul mags. We'll see if I can shoot well enough to spot the best COL / group.
Is that the right order? Should I start at 2.830 and work towards shorter instead? I've heard the ELD bullets don't mind a longer jump, so am I too worried About COL??
Feel free to straighten me out.
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Quick question; For my DPMS Gen2 flavor of 6.5 Creedmoor, how far should I be bumping the shoulder back? I've read somewhere here that for a bolt gun it's 1 or 2 thousandths, but for a gas gun it's at least 3 thousandths, or more. So, I'm wondering what the safety margin should be to ensure absolutely reliable operation. I imagine it would close the bolt on 2, but when it's all dirty from suppressor blowback? Of course, this will be an adjustment to a full length resizing die. Not just shoulder bumping.
I'm just waiting for the rest of my reloading stuff to arrive, and a VLD Stem is on backorder.
I'm just waiting for the rest of my reloading stuff to arrive, and a VLD Stem is on backorder.
...measure a fired case from that rifle then adjust your die to bump it back the desired amount. You can check it by manually chambering the empty, sized case. Slip it under the extractor and guide it into the chamber then push on the back of the BCG to see if it will close and lock. The reason the 0.003-0.004 is recommended for auto-feed systems is to ensure they feed & chamber properly. By doing the above procedure you can decrease that amount to what your fired case measurement reveals. The SAAMI spec states 1.183" MIN to 1.190" MAX for the shoulder measurement.
Here's my reloading 6.5 Creedmoor report for my 18" piston gun.
So, took my ladder of 10 steps of 5 rounds each, COL of 2.820, BR2 primers, Hornady 1x fired brass, 140 ELD-M's, spaced at .3 grains of StaBall 6.5 loaded from Max of 44.0 down to 41.3 grains to the range today, along with 4 steps of 5 rounds, same as above but with COL of 2.800, grains from Max of 43.7 to 42.8. I also shot 5 2020 factory Hornady Match 140's that give me both pressure and early extraction signs, and Hornady confirmed they were loaded with RL16.
No pressure or early extraction signs on my reloads. Maybe thanks to Clint at heavybuffers.com for the 8.5 oz weight and stiff spring.
This is from an 18" barrel on an Adams Arms P2 that's Omega 300 suppressed and slightly customized.
Also had some issues with the used Magnetospeed Pro that Scheels sold me as new. That's going back to them tomorrow. So, not all shots were recorded.
So....4,640' altitude, average 56 degrees.
Factory Hornady, 2662 avg, ES=9, SD=4.0, COL was 2.814
COL 2.820, 41.3 grs, 2543 avg, ES=68, SD ??
COL 2.820, 41.6 grs, 2536 avg, ES=23, SD=9.4
COL 2.820, 41.9 grs, 2550 avg, ES=16, SD=7.5
COL 2.820, 42.2 grs, 2567 avg, ES=11, SD=5.0
COL 2.820, 42.5 grs, 2574 avg, ES=38, SD=15.2
COL 2.820, 42.8 grs, 2615 avg, ES=37, SD=16.8
COL 2.820, 43.1 grs, 2605 avg, ES=38, SD=18.8
COL 2.820, 43.4 grs, 2634 avg, ES=52, SD=21.4
*** COL 2.820, 43.7 grs, 2683 avg, ES=52, SD=21.4
COL 2.820, 44.0 grs, 2675 avg, ES=48, SD=20.7
†************
COL 2.800, 42.8 grs, 2626 avg, ES=42, SD=29.6
COL 2.800, 43.1 grs, 2643 avg, ES=53 (2 shots, 2669 & 2617)
COL 2.800, 43.4 grs, 2651 avg, ES=55, SD=20.0
*** COL 2.800, 43.7 grs, 2673 avg, ES=6, SD=2.8
All shot okay groups at 100, but frankly I was so pissed at the Magnetospeed that I wasn't really trying so only shot sub MOA on the two 43.7 grain loads. Those were the ones I liked best so I'll load that and test COL differences another day. I don't trust some of the SD numbers it spit out either.
Peace.
So, took my ladder of 10 steps of 5 rounds each, COL of 2.820, BR2 primers, Hornady 1x fired brass, 140 ELD-M's, spaced at .3 grains of StaBall 6.5 loaded from Max of 44.0 down to 41.3 grains to the range today, along with 4 steps of 5 rounds, same as above but with COL of 2.800, grains from Max of 43.7 to 42.8. I also shot 5 2020 factory Hornady Match 140's that give me both pressure and early extraction signs, and Hornady confirmed they were loaded with RL16.
No pressure or early extraction signs on my reloads. Maybe thanks to Clint at heavybuffers.com for the 8.5 oz weight and stiff spring.
This is from an 18" barrel on an Adams Arms P2 that's Omega 300 suppressed and slightly customized.
Also had some issues with the used Magnetospeed Pro that Scheels sold me as new. That's going back to them tomorrow. So, not all shots were recorded.
So....4,640' altitude, average 56 degrees.
Factory Hornady, 2662 avg, ES=9, SD=4.0, COL was 2.814
COL 2.820, 41.3 grs, 2543 avg, ES=68, SD ??
COL 2.820, 41.6 grs, 2536 avg, ES=23, SD=9.4
COL 2.820, 41.9 grs, 2550 avg, ES=16, SD=7.5
COL 2.820, 42.2 grs, 2567 avg, ES=11, SD=5.0
COL 2.820, 42.5 grs, 2574 avg, ES=38, SD=15.2
COL 2.820, 42.8 grs, 2615 avg, ES=37, SD=16.8
COL 2.820, 43.1 grs, 2605 avg, ES=38, SD=18.8
COL 2.820, 43.4 grs, 2634 avg, ES=52, SD=21.4
*** COL 2.820, 43.7 grs, 2683 avg, ES=52, SD=21.4
COL 2.820, 44.0 grs, 2675 avg, ES=48, SD=20.7
†************
COL 2.800, 42.8 grs, 2626 avg, ES=42, SD=29.6
COL 2.800, 43.1 grs, 2643 avg, ES=53 (2 shots, 2669 & 2617)
COL 2.800, 43.4 grs, 2651 avg, ES=55, SD=20.0
*** COL 2.800, 43.7 grs, 2673 avg, ES=6, SD=2.8
All shot okay groups at 100, but frankly I was so pissed at the Magnetospeed that I wasn't really trying so only shot sub MOA on the two 43.7 grain loads. Those were the ones I liked best so I'll load that and test COL differences another day. I don't trust some of the SD numbers it spit out either.
Peace.
I am working up loads for 6.5 CM 147g Hornady ELD and H4350. Is a 1:8 twist fast enough for this combination or should I be in the 1:7.5 range. I noticed a faster twist requirement for the 150g. Rifle is : 24" Criterion barrel, JP bolt all wrapped up in Aero Precision.
Yours,
Manic Mike
Yours,
Manic Mike
My AA P2 stabilized them fine with factory Hornady at 1,000 yards in it's 1 in8 twist 18" barrel. According to the target computer thingey it was impacting about 15 fps slower than the 140's and no wobble, etc. I've read on some forums that 147 is about the top weight for 1/8 but others disagree. My mileage was fine.
Ah, I'm at about 4,600', that could matter for sure.
Interesting, I picked up some 147gr at Scheels yesterday and noticed it says twist 1-8.5 on the box.
New Lapua SRP 6.5 cm brass
CCI450 Primers
StaBall 43.7 grains
Hornady 140 gr ELD-M
COAL of 2.800 (Best in my gun)
Shooting Adams Arms P2 with 18" barrel
Getting 2683 avg at 4,640' altitude, 80 degrees temp. 15.6 SD
But, I need to drop that max charge as I'm seeing high pressure signs. How much do y'all think I should drop it by? 0.3 ?, 0.5 ? Let me know.
FYI, I wasn't trying for group all that hard.
CCI450 Primers
StaBall 43.7 grains
Hornady 140 gr ELD-M
COAL of 2.800 (Best in my gun)
Shooting Adams Arms P2 with 18" barrel
Getting 2683 avg at 4,640' altitude, 80 degrees temp. 15.6 SD
But, I need to drop that max charge as I'm seeing high pressure signs. How much do y'all think I should drop it by? 0.3 ?, 0.5 ? Let me know.
FYI, I wasn't trying for group all that hard.
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I really like Staball. 24" barrel, 41.5g behind a 140ELDM, 2650fps, .75moa @100yrds
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43.6 gr of StaBall 6.5 is shooting a bit better than an inch at 100 yards and velocity is 2585 with 140 gr Barnes match burner. 16” Wilson combat barrel.
I went out to try StaBALL 6.5 this weekend. Seemed to do pretty good (for my abilities). Using a built Aero M5, 22" Ultramatch barrel with Hornady Brass, CCI #34 primer, 41.2g StaBALL 6.5 and a 147g ELD-Match. Group looks promising, so some tweaking and then collecting velocities...
What is your OACL? My Wilson barrel likes them short…..
Loading @ 2.79 mostly because I’m exclusively using pmags and want to leave a little wiggle room and not worry about binding.
It's interesting that my Adams Arms P2 likes them short too. Tightest group is right at 2.80. I usually use the LR118 Pmags that'll let you go to 2.83. think the gas guns are chambered slightly tighter?
A couple of months ago I bought a JP LRI20 in 6.5 and did the load development for it but I wasn't happy with 3/4 MOA groups and the occasional 1/2 moa group. This being my first AR10 I knew going in that I was limited for seating depth by the magazine, so I decided to try a tuner. I bought an EC tuner/brake and turned a 3/4 moa gun into a 1/4 moa gun. I think a tuner break combination is a perfect fit for the AR platform. Here is a picture of the different tune settings. The top row was a quick powder charge test. As you can see it tuned in between 6-8 settings.
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![IMG_0471[1027] Tuner break.jpg](/shooting/data/attachments/1107/1107643-7ff62696344fbd2c80882ea0cfb275f1.jpg)
I am having the hardest time getting Staball and 130gr Golden Targets to shoot better than a minute from an Aero build (18" BA barrel). I have tried multiple charges from 42 to 43.5gr and lengths from 2.78 to 2.805. Any thoughts or just one of those combos that doesn't work. I have some Accurate 4350 to try next.
Yeah, that might have a bit too warm. Damn shame because it shot well.
I’ll probably rework starting from low 41’s to mid 42’s
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Mine runs sub on 41.2gr of StaBALL 6.5 behind a 147 ELD Match. Haven't messed with seating depth yet.
Any updates?
Sorry no, storming now so probably not this weekend. Will post when I take the other 5 sets out to try. 40.9g showed a decent, 41.2g opened up a lot, which is funny because my other 6.5 loves that charge. The last 5 sets may present another node to be investigated.
