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I don't know much about semi-autos

J

jlorensen

Sergeant of the Hide
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Dec 9, 2020
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Kansas City
Generally speaking, I'm a bolt gun guy....but I do own an older DPMS AR-15. It mostly sits in the safe, but my son has shown a recent interest in it. I'm wondering about the feasibility of swapping out the upper, adding a better trigger and scope, and ending up with something he can shoot at steel out to 300-400 yds (recreationally).

In your opinion, would something like this make sense, or would I end up spending money on something that isn't worth it once assembled?

Thanks!
 
Do you know what kind of accuracy the rifle is capable of as it sits? It may shoot well as it is. Put a scope on it, preferably 10x or higher and see how it shoots at 100 yards. You’ll want to use 69-77 gr match ammo which will cost you but there’s no way around that. Reloading can bring the cost down in the end but if you aren’t set up to do that just buy some good ammo and go see how it shoots.
 
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I've shot this rifle at 100 yds, and from what I recall, 1.5-2" groups is about all it would do with factory loaded varmint ammo, and some Hornady Black. I'm not expecting this to be a super tack driver, just looking to get my kiddo away from the video games a bit......so we might be good.....buying a larger gong might be a viable option as well :rolleyes:.

Maybe a different upper with the same accuracy expectations could come down the road if he maintains interest......it would be a nice winter project.

Thanks!
 
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A 6x scope and a 2 MOA rifle will get you pretty regular hits on a full size silhouette at 600 yards. It's a lot of fun, if he gets interested in finer precision, smaller targets and longer ranges you can adjust equipment to match the new goals as you go.
 
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3-400 is easy with a eotech on a 12.5" gun. Throw a scope on it and see how it shoots. I was at the range yesterday and my buddy was working the kyl rack at 1000y with a 20" scoped ar in 223. 13.5 mils to get there. It was fun spotting watching the bullets literally fall on the targets.
 
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Try it as it sits

All the accuracy is in the upper, “Lego gun” swapping uppers dropping a new trigger if needed is no issue at all

One thing I’d do ether way is drop in a silent capture spring through
 
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TonyTheTiger said:
Why?
Click to expand...

smoother, less vibration and trash can feeling after a shot, also you don’t need the spring retainer in the receiver anymore

All the ARs I have had had the silent capture, it’s what I’m used to and to me what a AR feels like, when a shoot a friends who has a normal buffer spring it is noticeable difference
 
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Nah. I've got an SCS and it does nothing a well used standard system with a smooth ID buffer tube doesn't. All that raspy noise just means you need to shoot more.

ETA: some springs are really rough too, that doesn't help. Neither does being way overgassed. Basically, a tuned system using quality parts gets you the same smoothness and lack of sproing an SCS does.
 
Last edited:
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TonyTheTiger said:
Nah. I've got an SCS and it does nothing a well used standard system with a smooth ID buffer tube doesn't. All that raspy noise just means you need to shoot more.

ETA: some springs are really rough too, that doesn't help. Neither does being way overgassed. Basically, a tuned system using quality parts gets you the same smoothness and lack of sproing an SCS does.
Click to expand...

How does one have quality parts but doesn’t have a SCS? ;)
 
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Building separate upper for precision work isn't a bad idea though, and it doesn't have to break the bank.

Regardless the first thing I would do is put a quality trigger in, pick up a Larue MBT if your budget is tight. A quality trigger just makes any shooting platform more enjoyable.
 
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A decent scope and a new trigger will do wonders.

Also if you're a bolt gun guy and not used to shooting semi then 1.5-2" may not be all the guns fault. 🤔
 
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2aBaCa said:
A decent scope and a new trigger will do wonders.

Also if you're a bolt gun guy and not used to shooting semi then 1.5-2" may not be all the guns fault. 🤔
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure this has a lot to do with it, lol. The kids and I went to the range today and shot inside of 2" groups at 100 yds (with 3 different factory offerings). I really focused on my fundamentals and shot about 1/8" tighter than they did, and they shot fast as hell! They really enjoyed the shooting, and hitting the target makes it a little better😀.
 
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Well, talked to a buddy and he loaned me a Rise Armament trigger (Rave 140). From what I've read, it breaks around 3lbs....not sure if that's accurate, but I can tell you it's leaps and bounds nicer than the OEM trigger. Now to decide if I buy a scope, or keep the red dot!
 
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jlorensen said:
Well, talked to a buddy and he loaned me a Rise Armament trigger (Rave 140). From what I've read, it breaks around 3lbs....not sure if that's accurate, but I can tell you it's leaps and bounds nicer than the OEM trigger. Now to decide if I buy a scope, or keep the red dot!
Click to expand...
nice. I would say if you are shooting off hand or kneeling inside 100yds stick with the red dot but if you are tripod, prone, sitting and want to stretch out farther get a scope. you dont need to go crazy, an LPVO or scope under 20x will be more than adequate.
 
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If you want a project just for projects sake, the psa ss 18 inchers are pretty dang good shooters. Pretty fun to build a rifle with a friend/brother/son/dad, then tell him it's "his" new rifle 😀
 
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Agreed with the upper. There are some good ones out there.

Only thing I will disagree with is the LaRue. Nothing special about most of their products. Yes I have some including scope mounts, triggers had rails, grips and other mounts. Scope mounts are good, everything else mediocre. Funny how everything on LaRue site is 5 stars, I know from experience how they keep it that way
 
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Well, I did a thing........read a little about PSA's cold hammer forged barrel uppers, and decided to grab a 20" version. I happen to have a cantilever mount and a scope or two laying around, so I'll view this as a <$500 project. This barrel has a 1:7 twist, so I'll probably give my daughter's bolt gun handloads a try (69gr BTHP)....assuming those bullets are seated deep enough.

We'll see how this shakes out....not expecting bugholes, but should be fun either way :)
 
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jlorensen said:
Well, I did a thing........read a little about PSA's cold hammer forged barrel uppers, and decided to grab a 20" version. I happen to have a cantilever mount and a scope or two laying around, so I'll view this as a <$500 project. This barrel has a 1:7 twist, so I'll probably give my daughter's bolt gun handloads a try (69gr BTHP)....assuming those bullets are seated deep enough.

We'll see how this shakes out....not expecting bugholes, but should be fun either way :)
Click to expand...
Just a heads up, the PSA barrels on an average are 1.5-2MOA.

On Black Friday white oak armament has great sales and they produce sub MOA barrels/uppers.

White Oak Armament | Quality Parts for Competitive and Casual Shooters

Looking for parts or accessories for your rifle? White Oak Armament is the destination for quality parts for competitive and recreational marksmen.
www.whiteoakarmament.com www.whiteoakarmament.com
 
TonyTheTiger said:
Nah. I've got an SCS and it does nothing a well used standard system with a smooth ID buffer tube doesn't. All that raspy noise just means you need to shoot more.

ETA: some springs are really rough too, that doesn't help. Neither does being way overgassed. Basically, a tuned system using quality parts gets you the same smoothness and lack of sproing an SCS does.
Click to expand...
Tubb flatwire does pretty good
 
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FWIW... my 18" MLGS 308 PSA FN CHF barrel shoots very well. I did lap the upper and Loctite in barrel, as well as snugging the upper to lower fit.
10rds Hornady 155gr AG , rapidish fire, 100yds, scoped , benched, blah, blah, blah.... I flubbed the flyer.

IMG_3106_JPG-860403.jpg



A typical 168gr FGMM group...
IMG_3040.JPG
 
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you said "older DPMS AR-15", if it's a "carry-handle" upper, it might be worthwhile to go flat-top, either with a new barrel upper assy, or, if you're handy with AR tools, then swap out the upper receiver, they're cheap enough, and it doesn't affect headspace.

the flat-tops are so much better for mounting a scope/optic, than the Rube Goldberg carry-handle mounted scopes.
 
No carry handle on this one..... I should have clarified, in this case "older" is like 10-12 yrs old.

Also discovered something.....my memory failed me 😀. While digging for a scope, I discovered the OEM upper for this rifle....apparently I put a PSA Freedom upper on it at some point, but forgot. So.....I think my upcoming comparison will end up being OEM pencil vs 16" SS PSA vs 20" CHF PSA.

Seems like I have a decent amount of 55gr FMJ, might pick up some 62gr as well......now just gotta wait for everything to show up.
 
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Everything has arrived except ammo. Still need to put everything together and get a photo, but in the meantime, a question....I noticed the flash hider on all three of these uppers have slots cut in the top but not in the bottom.....As the bullet exits the muzzle, would there be an imbalance of gases surrounding it that might cause accuracy to suffer a bit? Or am I over thinking it?
 
Yes, directional comps designed to keep a barrel on target will give up a little precision.
 
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jlorensen said:
Everything has arrived except ammo. Still need to put everything together and get a photo, but in the meantime, a question....I noticed the flash hider on all three of these uppers have slots cut in the top but not in the bottom.....As the bullet exits the muzzle, would there be an imbalance of gases surrounding it that might cause accuracy to suffer a bit? Or am I over thinking it?
Click to expand...
i think, MHO, that the effect of the A2 flash hider is negligible. from the thousands, perhaps ten-thousands, in use. haven't heard that yet.

I guess you can theorize it, poke holes in the sky postulating, but from a real-life practical sense? I seriously doubt it.

perhaps an exercise for the motivated student.
 
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jlorensen said:
Well, talked to a buddy and he loaned me a Rise Armament trigger (Rave 140). From what I've read, it breaks around 3lbs....not sure if that's accurate, but I can tell you it's leaps and bounds nicer than the OEM trigger. Now to decide if I buy a scope, or keep the red dot!
Click to expand...
I am a fan of the Rave's. Nice upgrade for the money.
 
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jlorensen said:
Everything has arrived except ammo. Still need to put everything together and get a photo, but in the meantime, a question....I noticed the flash hider on all three of these uppers have slots cut in the top but not in the bottom.....As the bullet exits the muzzle, would there be an imbalance of gases surrounding it that might cause accuracy to suffer a bit? Or am I over thinking it?
Click to expand...
The A2 flash hider was designed without openings at the bottom to help alleviate dust and debris from being kicked up when shooting in the prone position. It's predecessor, the A1 flash hider, was slotted all around and didn't need to be timed.
 
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Got in a brief range session this morning. Only had a chance to set up at a 25yd bench, so today was used to get zeroed and make sure everything functioned. Shot about 50 rds of 55gr vmax and 55gr fmj......all went smooth.

Kids took their turns, and they said the felt recoil was less than with my 16" upper, and it was much quieter 🙂.

Though only 25 yds, it shot well, basically one ragged hole....had a final 10 rd group that was easily covered by a dime.....but......will definitely need to find a 100 yd bench.....quick pic of my daughter as well.
20221015_103347.jpg
 
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Now that our deer seasons are wrapped up, the kids and I made a range visit. After getting zeroed at 100, we each shot groups with 55gr fmj. I shot a 3/8" group, and both kids shot between 5/8" and 3/4". Need to shoot many more groups, but pretty happy thus far.

Also used the Brass Goat today.....that thing is awesome.
 
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