Rifle Scopes Anyone have both a Kahles 525i and Burris XTR pro to compare

Well, as Burris and Steiner are the same company in the USA, I am going to vote for German Schott glass, but glass means little, as it can be desined and made to the specification of the buyer. Many times glass that did not make it to S&B or ZCO or Kahles, finds its way to other scope makers with lesser requirements.

I have used the Kahles and sold the Kahles. We sell Steiner, but price points are very hard. I have looked through the Burris models and chosen not to sell them or personally use them. They seem like solid scopes, but not at the level that our customers are looking for scopes, so I would not compare Burris to Kahles. Each has their place. We are selling a ton of Sig Sauer MSR LPVO scopes, and they are pretty impressive, at their price point.

Kahles quality is up there with the best of the best. Maybe in the top 5 brands. Kahles does not have a second or third level of scopes, like a Burris or Steiner or Vortex (which goes from almost in the top 5 brands to BB gun quality)

Out of curiosity, have you considered ZCO or March?

Kahles are phenomenal scopes, but like was mentioned above, they are NOWHERE near the same league to compere them side-by-side. Here's my random internet opinion on this...

If you have the money for Austrian or German scopes, then definitely go with the K525i.

But, if you only have the money for the Burris...Go for the Burris.

If the price point is similar (or close), then I'd save up a little more and go for the Kahles K525i.

They're both great scopes. I have owned a Kahles for about 15 years now. Been a phenomenal scope, and the only thing I would ever upgrade it for, would be another Kahles, but with more magnification.

I have no personal experience with the Burris, I've only ever read positive reviews...I've never really seen anything negative about them, so that lends me to believe they're solid optics.

Kahles are phenomenal scopes? Spoken by someone who never used them or ONLY used them.

They punch bellow their weight class. There was a time they were one of the few decent options but today, not even close.

624i sell for sub 1.8K. Used PM2 are still going for $2500+ and can be 20 years olds.

The difference in quality among the 624i gens as well as 525 is all over the place. It was so bad they had to come out with the DLR or whatever with better glass, but then its almost to ZCO price range and not even on the same planet quality wise.

For the money (even better if you can snag a cert) the Burris punches WAY above its weight class. I would take an XTR3 over a 624i or 525i based on using and looking through both. Kahles does have better reticles but its not a deal breaker.

There are MUCH better Options today (Gen 3 Razor, ZP5, used ZCO/Tangent, used PM2,ect)

Post in thread 'Burris XTR Pro ' https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/burris-xtr-pro-🇺🇸.7107032/post-10071657

Post in thread 'Burris XTR Pro ' https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/burris-xtr-pro-🇺🇸.7107032/post-10071820

Post in thread 'Burris XTR Pro ' https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/burris-xtr-pro-🇺🇸.7107032/post-10072864

Post in thread 'Burris XTR Pro ' https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/burris-xtr-pro-🇺🇸.7107032/post-10076382

DeathBeforeDismount said:

For the money (even better if you can snag a cert) the Burris punches WAY above its weight class. I would take an XTR3 over a 624i or 525i based on using and looking through both. Kahles does have better reticles but its not a deal breaker.

There are MUCH better Options today (Gen 3 Razor, ZP5, used ZCO/Tangent, used PM2,ect)

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I have heard mixed reviews on Kahles. We can agree on your other options. I would not put Burris above Kahles, but scopes are very personal.

longshot2000 said:

I have heard mixed reviews on Kahles. We can agree on your other options. I would not put Burris above Kahles, but scopes are very personal.

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Nothing I am saying is new to anyone who has used all of these.

The XTR3 Pro absolutely has better glass than MOST (There are some Kahles with very good glass, they are just rare) 624 and 525 Kahles. This is not really debatable. You can read the reviews from users here or listen to guys like Koshkin who tell you what i am telling you.

Kahles should be priced around $1500, not $3K plus based on their performance alone. Kahles is the premier sponsor of the PRS and the SKMR reticle is named after Shannon Kay.......Ya know the dude who owns PRS. They even lowered the MRSP of the 624 so it could make production class last year. All this being said, almost no one shoots this shit. The only people I see at matches with them, are sponsored Kahles guys. Anyone using their own money is shooting something else, be it a Tangent, Razor, ZCO or Mk5 since this is leupold country and about a half a dozen of the best shooters in the nation live here and are team leupy guys.

Kahles is a part of Swaro but they might as well be different brands. I have never seen ANY swaro product with as bad glass as most of the Kahles I have looked through.

Burris XTR3/Pro is a sub 2k scope that looks like a 2K scope.
Kahles is an over 3K scope that looks like a sub 2K scope
If you really want to piss some people off. A new Gen 3 razor costs less than a new 624 and will blow it away optically.

There is no place for the Kahles optics in todays world IMO. They don't do anything someone doesn't do Cheaper & Better.

Billydonk said:

Wondering how the XTR pro glass stacks up? Anyone have both or had a chance to use both together?

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One thing to keep in mind is FOV, not sure what your intended goal is for this scope, but the newer K525i DLR has a wider angle eyepiece and offers greater FOV than the original K525i (early reports also mention some of the image degradation that was observed above 20x with the original K525i was also fixed with this), this (DLR) would compare more favorably to the XTR Pro which also uses a wide angle eyepiece.

Billydonk said:

Also where is Burris glass made? Japan? I know they are assembled in the US but is the glass from elsewhere? Thanks fellas.

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Pretty sure Burris glass is Japanese, but the line of delineation is getting shorter and shorter between good European glass and good Japanese glass, as longshot mentions it's more about spec, the high end glass from Japan I've seen of late is definitely cutting in on the ranks of the best European which I have not seen before.

To be honest, glass shouldn't take up too much of your concern at this level, you ought to be focusing more on other features like reticle and mechanics. If you've already evaluated those items and found these two scopes come up in a tie for you, then I can understand, but a question like "how does the glass stack up" just leaves so many doors open - stack up in what way? Resolution, Color, Contrast, CA, Edge sharpness? Do things like FOV, DOF, forgiving parallax, forgiving eyebox matter? Of course, your answer to all the above may be - everything, but if there is something specific you are keenly interested in that may be of help for others to answer; otherwise, you'll just get into brand bias arguments where fans of one or the other will come to defend their brand more than give productive feedback (and remember, there are no unbiased comments - we all have bias, just some a bit more than others ).

I had a 6-24 kahles and loved the scope, it was my first high end scope and served me very well. Earlier this year when the xtr pros started to come out I had the chance to compare the kahles and new pro side by side. We thought the pro had better resolution. The features and price on the pro is amazing.

The night after comparing I put my kahles up for sale and ordered a pro. I’m very happy with that choice. The XTR series is very impressive and in my opinion is under rated. I live in Colorado where Burris is and still don’t see many of the xtr3’s at matches, and it’s a real shame. Even the standard xtr3’s easily beats the few gen 2 razors I have compared them too.

I have a pro, as well as a 5-30 and 3-18. And my shooting buddy just bought a 3-18 for an AR and is considering selling his gen 2 razor to upgrade to a xtr3 on his comp gun

Yesterday I had a chance to look through a Khales 6-24, Burris PRO, and Bushnell XRS 3.

Would have loved a longer time to look through each, but didnt have it.

All were great.

If you werent hitting with any one of those, it was a wind call getting you.
Well, the guy who owns the Bushnell needs to up his shooting skills, and is getting there slowly.....

powdahound76 said:

Yesterday I had a chance to look through a Khales 6-24, Burris PRO, and Bushnell XRS 3.

Would have loved a longer time to look through each, but didnt have it.

All were great.

If you werent hitting with any one of those, it was a wind call getting you.
Well, the guy who owns the Bushnell needs to up his shooting skills, and is getting there slowly.....

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Any details on your thoughts between them. I have been wanting to check out the bushnell but haven’t had the chance yet

You can actually find an XTR3 for little more than $1k certain times of the year. So ask yourself is the Khales $2000 better?

2aBaCa said:

You can actually find an XTR3 for little more than $1k certain times of the year. So ask yourself is the Khales $2000 better?

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The same can be said about S&B & Leupold… They’re living on a legacy.

FuhQ said:

The same can be said about S&B & Leupold… They’re living on a legacy.

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Stop talking. Everything that comes out of your mouth is retarded.

Baron85 said:

Any details on your thoughts between them. I have been wanting to check out the bushnell but haven’t had the chance yet

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Well, lets go shooting and you can check it out!

Lotta glass for what you can find them for used in like new shape.

Honestly, it comes down to reticle and features.

Im not of the discernment or skill to get too nitpicky.
Me after trying a nice scope.
“Dang, thats clear!”
“These turrets click real good and are very repeatable.”
“Glad for these wind holds, the 1/2 mil just wasnt working well with my limited skill”

DeathBeforeDismount said:

Stop talking. Everything that comes out of your mouth is retarded.

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Says the guy who sucks S&B’s dick every chance he gets.

FuhQ said:

Says the guy who sucks S&B’s dick every chance he gets.

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Again, you are clearly fucking retarded.

Show me where I am sucking S&B every chance?

I shoot ZCO FYI, not some poor chicom faggot shit like you try to peddle in every thread because its clear you don't actually shoot.

The MK5 is the most popular scope in PRS. The S&B is still competitive and better than most of this shit listed in this thread. In fact, The top lady and guy who finished 3rd in region shoot S&B.

DeathBeforeDismount said:

Again, you are clearly fucking retarded.

Show me where I am sucking S&B every chance?

I shoot ZCO FYI, not some poor chicom faggot shit like you try to peddle in every thread because its clear you don't actually shoot.

The MK5 is the most popular scope in PRS. The S&B is still competitive and better than most of this shit listed in this thread. In fact, The top lady and guy who finished 3rd in region shoot S&B.

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You’re a weak pathetic excuse for a man. You feel like the cost of the things you buy make you superior to others, and improve your abilities. The definition of weakness.

Well that escalated quickly.

DeathBeforeDismount said:

Nothing I am saying is new to anyone who has used all of these.

The XTR3 Pro absolutely has better glass than MOST (There are some Kahles with very good glass, they are just rare) 624 and 525 Kahles. This is not really debatable. You can read the reviews from users here or listen to guys like Koshkin who tell you what i am telling you.

Kahles should be priced around $1500, not $3K plus based on their performance alone. Kahles is the premier sponsor of the PRS and the SKMR reticle is named after Shannon Kay.......Ya know the dude who owns PRS. They even lowered the MRSP of the 624 so it could make production class last year. All this being said, almost no one shoots this shit. The only people I see at matches with them, are sponsored Kahles guys. Anyone using their own money is shooting something else, be it a Tangent, Razor, ZCO or Mk5 since this is leupold country and about a half a dozen of the best shooters in the nation live here and are team leupy guys.

Kahles is a part of Swaro but they might as well be different brands. I have never seen ANY swaro product with as bad glass as most of the Kahles I have looked through.

Burris XTR3/Pro is a sub 2k scope that looks like a 2K scope.
Kahles is an over 3K scope that looks like a sub 2K scope
If you really want to piss some people off. A new Gen 3 razor costs less than a new 624 and will blow it away optically.

There is no place for the Kahles optics in todays world IMO. They don't do anything someone doesn't do Cheaper & Better.

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DeathBeforeDismount said:

Stop talking. Everything that comes out of your mouth is retarded.

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You should take your own advice. I personally have been around many of these scopes that you’re talking about.
1. Your comment on the Gen 3 being better is laughable at best. Once you buy a G3 you need to send it to the factory for rebuild. Fixing the turrets are a must or it will constantly slip down to lock. Then you have to worry about tracking issues cause it doesn’t track properly. So send it back a second time for a new erector to be installed.
2. The ZCO is nicer yet it has its down falls. Mirage in that thing is horrible looks like grey milk. Parallax is way to finicky to try and run a troop line.
3. Tanget very nice scope. For 4K, you would think the parallax knob would have yardage print. You would like to be close on the parallax yard line when stepping up to a stage. Guessing on a dang triangle mark for that money is stupid.
4. Most guys that are shooting a Leupold are wearing a jersey from Leupold. That scope has some very well known top shooters shooting for them. Marketing them selves well. This makes new shooters lean in that direction. Are they a good scope for the price range hell yes. Yet they are not anything close to a Kahles, ZCO or a TT.
5. I’ve seen more guys switch from three major players in the scope line over to the Kahles than any others.
That I’m it’s self speaks for its self.

Last your comments make you look like you are trying to insert yourself into a comment race. Shall we call you Mr. Desperate for attention. I think so. Take your own advice, sit down and shit up.

Regarding DeathbeforeDismount, I set him to "Ignore" a long time ago, I realized early on most of his comments are meant to stir the pot, aggravate and annoy and I just don't want to deal with someone like that. And based on the responses above I see he's still doing that. If any of you don't know where this feature is, if you click on the image above the username in the top left of each post, you'll get a popup window that has some buttons at the bottom, one of this is labeled Ignore, simple as that.

Come on, everyone knows if you're not shooting TT or ZCO then you'll miss every shot. It's pretty obvious whose advice is worth following here.

Last weekend competition dynamics match the winners tangent went down and he used a Burris pro to win the match…… we were RO’d by them day 1 and we ro’d them day 2. He was impressed with the Burris and it obviously worked

Baron85 said:

Last weekend competition dynamics match the winners tangent went down and he used a Burris pro to win the match…… we were RO’d by them day 1 and we ro’d them day 2. He was impressed with the Burris and it obviously worked

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I heard he planned to buy one now..

Pretty funny..

Rutter said:

1. Your comment on the Gen 3 being better is laughable at best. Once you buy a G3 you need to send it to the factory for rebuild. Fixing the turrets are a must or it will constantly slip down to lock. Then you have to worry about tracking issues cause it doesn’t track properly. So send it back a second time for a new erector to be installed.

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Tracking issues? Please go on. The way people posted about turrets not being clicky enough you'd this this would be mentioned more.

srt-4_uk said:

Tracking issues? Please go on. The way people posted about turrets not being clicky enough you'd this this would be mentioned more.

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For some reason the erector was skipping or getting stuck. However you want to explain it. At first it was thought that the dope was off on the gun. After swapping out scopes, checking confirmation on dope. Everything lined up. Put G3 back on it was skipping dialed dope. Sent back to VT for warranty, they put a new erector in it. Sent it back, then it got sold.

Ah, so you had a one off failure. I read that as some sort of common problem.

I have not looked through a 525i but have had a couple 624s, still have one that had the better glass. I just bought a Burris pro a couple months ago, have a zco 527 and a Gen 3 as well. To my eye i think that which scope is best optically depends on the conditions that day. I think that the pro is better optically in every condition than my 624 and is equal to the zco most of the time. The Gen 3 looks different than the Burris, zco and kahles as far as color to me. The other three seem to enhance colors more. As far as seeing your target I think the vortex may actually be best overall probably because it’s higher power and stays bright and clear as you crank over the others max. I like certain things about all of them and dislike others. My favorite is probably zco even though it may be the worst bang for the buck, kahles seems most refined and I like the turrets best but optically it’s not as good as the rest and the eye relief sucks. The Burris is probably best bang for buck overall but dislike capped windage and the reticle is quite fine.

I have the Kahles k525i and the Burris XTR 3 not the pro one tho. Honestly the Burris is pretty badass. I can’t really tell the difference between glass unless I really sit down and look. The only gripe I have with my Burris are the turrets are kinda stiff. But I have one of the first ones that came out so idk if they fixed that. I’ve been debating on selling the kahles and trying to buy a couple more burris xtr3’s.

How much does the K525I vs the XTR3 cost again?

Blackice55 said:

I have the Kahles k525i and the Burris XTR 3 not the pro one tho. Honestly the Burris is pretty badass. I can’t really tell the difference between glass unless I really sit down and look. The only gripe I have with my Burris are the turrets are kinda stiff. But I have one of the first ones that came out so idk if they fixed that. I’ve been debating on selling the kahles and trying to buy a couple more burris xtr3’s.

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I sold my kahles 6-24 after looking through a pro. I think it was an improvement all the way around.

Are the XTR 3, XTR 3 illuminated and the Pro made in Greeley?

No, only the Pro.

The XTR 3 was "made in usa" but is discontinued.

The XTR3 Illuminated is made in the Philippines now.

Thanks for the info. Are they just assembled their or are they completely made their? Thinking of getting the XTR 3 with the 30 power for a rifle. Had the smaller 1 without illumination and it was a nice scope.

holy cow said:

Thanks for the info. Are they just assembled their or are they completely made their? Thinking of getting the XTR 3 with the 30 power for a rifle. Had the smaller 1 without illumination and it was a nice scope.

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The glass comes from the same source as the American made version. The rest of the scope is manufactured in the Phillipines.

The up side is that Burris took the opportunity to tweak a couple things when they switched to the Phillipines plant. The magnification and parallax knobs are now much smoother, as well as the turrets. And they toned down the dragon scale knurling a bit.

At first blush the Phillipines plant continues to maintain their tough as nails production reputation. The XTRII that came from this facility was a tank. I dropped my new XTRIII illuminated scope on a rock while elk hunting. Busted the illumination cap off.

Moved .3 left to re-zero and good to go. No damage, and Burris had a new illumination cap to me in 3 days.