I don't want to break the bank on a weapon light but don't want crap either. I'm down to the Streamlight 88071 or the Streamlight 88066. Anyone have experience with these? What are your thoughts on these and Streamlight as a whole?
- Thread starter Glock1943
- Start date
I’ve used a lot of streamlights (and still do). from the incandescent days in ‘02 or so up to the very compact and bright TLR-8 G. The only potential issue is IPX4 water resistance compared to similar Surefire products that are IPX7 submersible waterproof. I don’t need that level but like everything, sometimes it’s just nice to know it’s that level.
I’ve been very happy with Streamlight and never had a recoil failure once using LED. I’m not sure the incandescent was recoil or just the bulb burning out honestly but did replace the bulb once, which they paid for.
I’ve been very happy with Streamlight and never had a recoil failure once using LED. I’m not sure the incandescent was recoil or just the bulb burning out honestly but did replace the bulb once, which they paid for.
Great thanks for the reply. They sound like great lights for the price.
Kinda depends on your use plans.
Most folks go for high lumens.
I go lower.
There is such thing as too bright IMAO.
Used them hard for years on the FD.
Worked dandy in a pile of conditions.
Lots crashes at night.
Lots of med calls.
Even in a few fires.
Most folks go for high lumens.
I go lower.
There is such thing as too bright IMAO.
Used them hard for years on the FD.
Worked dandy in a pile of conditions.
Lots crashes at night.
Lots of med calls.
Even in a few fires.
Every issued weapon-mounted light I’ve had has been a Streamlight except one. That exception broke quickly.
The Rail Mount 1 is my favorite for AR’s.
The Rail Mount 1 is my favorite for AR’s.
Have used both, and almost everything else.
For me, it comes down to means of activation and battery needed to keep it on, solve for those first, then pick the light. If you have 123s laying around, take that into consideration; if AAs, or if you want rechargeable...
Too bright can be a problem, but too dim can too. Indoor/outdoor use? Need to strobe? Need a tape switch activation? Need that switch to run something else too?
I could start randomly recommending shit, but it might not address what are your primary needs- which, apologies if I missed it, have not been stated yet.
For me, it comes down to means of activation and battery needed to keep it on, solve for those first, then pick the light. If you have 123s laying around, take that into consideration; if AAs, or if you want rechargeable...
Too bright can be a problem, but too dim can too. Indoor/outdoor use? Need to strobe? Need a tape switch activation? Need that switch to run something else too?
I could start randomly recommending shit, but it might not address what are your primary needs- which, apologies if I missed it, have not been stated yet.
Looks great
I would be using this mainly for indoor use and outside my house defense protection. The one I'm looking at has 1,000 lumens.
I agree with you. When I started, the Maglite was king. I have a Surefire 6P (original) that is rated at 60 lumens and wow’d everyone, back then. My WML (handgun) was an Streamlight Insight M3 and it was even brighter.
The Streamlight Rail Mount 1 is rated at 350 lumens. The dispersion is very important. The right balance of flood and beam - which the Rail Mount 1 does very well. I was in the group that decided which lights the agency would go with, for our rifles. I controlled the lights while the other guys rated them. This way, they didn’t know which light was which. In the end, the Rail Mount 1 beat out several other lights, overall. This was over ten years ago. Today, there are a ton of great choices. Streamlight is the best bang-for-buck, for most people. Surefire is a step up, as a company.
Open your eyes wide in a dark room, like you are trying to see through the dark. Then hit a white wall with a 1,000 lumen light.
You talking about this one? I don't see one at 350. https://www.streamlight.com/products/detail/tlr-rm1-laser-g
This is the Rail Mount 1:
On MLOK I use the Arisaka mount.
On MLOK I use the Arisaka mount.
For what’s currently available in quality weaponlights, you can’t have too many lumens. You’re using weaponlights (especially mounted on a carbine) improperly if you’re pointing it at a white wall in a small enough room where the washout/reflection affects your vision. This is one of those constant internet claims that has been perpetuated by people with little to no room clearing experience.
I spent two hours early this morning clearing a large industrial complex made up of mixed factory floor/cubicle offices/small office and conference rooms with my carbine and Streamlight HL-X. 1,000 lumens, 332m beam distance. For the factory floor, the 1,000 lumens and beam distance was 100% necessary to see what we were doing and assess long storage rack halls. For the small office rooms, splashing the light off the floors while searching at low ready lights up the whole office without creating an issue for your vision.
OP; for a light on a 14.5” or larger defensive carbine, you want a narrowly focused beam with high lumens and as long of a throw distance as you can afford. In small rooms, the lumens will still light up the room perfectly well when utilized at low/mid ready. In open areas, you’ll be glad to have the focused beam/high lumens. The Streamlight HL-X/pressure switch combo is a great option if you don’t want to spend the coin on a Surefire 600 Scout setup.
@Anb618
Question.
Did you ask the OP if he will be clearing huge stuff as part of a team of folks or if this was for his primary duty weapon?
I assumed the other way, that it is for a HD AR like a large percentage of us who are members here.
A reg joe grabbing a defensive AR in the middle of the night very likely could make a mistake and do that.
Being blind then would really suck.
And yes, if I was outside or in big buildings and it was my job, I might choose a really bright light.
Question.
Did you ask the OP if he will be clearing huge stuff as part of a team of folks or if this was for his primary duty weapon?
I assumed the other way, that it is for a HD AR like a large percentage of us who are members here.
A reg joe grabbing a defensive AR in the middle of the night very likely could make a mistake and do that.
Being blind then would really suck.
And yes, if I was outside or in big buildings and it was my job, I might choose a really bright light.
He said
So if he anticipates ever using this rifle outside his residence, my advice would still stand. Just my opinion on equipment. Not everyone agrees, and everyone does things different.
That said, people clearing rooms through the sights of their weapons is a habit that needs to die, immediately. I assume other people will be in his home occasionally (like most of us with families). Don’t clear your house with your rifle at high ready (the only way the reflection/washout issue on white walls exists). You’re most likely to end up pointing your gun at your kid…
I‘m posting based on my experiences, not an internet claim. I’ve had walls throw off my natural night vision and once hit a mirror I didn’t expect. Perhaps I just sucked at it, but I’ve had a lot of good training (compared to most people) and cleared a wide variety of structures and often did so alone.
My posts are worth what you paid for them.
Like I said, everyone does things different and has different opinions. All I was saying is that it is a common internet claim, not necessarily that you personally have no experience or training. My opinion is that a carbine light should be as bright and focused as possible. Your opinion is different. My above posts were not meant to be a personal attack, and I apologize if they were taken that way. Just more information for the OP to help him choose a light.
First off thanks to all you fellas for the great advice! No one is wrong, I welcome all opinions from you guys. This is what I love about this forum, lots of experience everyone is willing to help. I think I have all the info I need to make an educated purchase. Thanks!
Absolutely not, no no no!
"No one is wrong" is total horseshit and cannot be accepted in any intelligent conversation. There is an overwhelming abundance of wrong (not in this conversation), but that simply cannot stand as a point of view among grown men.
On the lights, I agree that bright is better, but also don't think that statement has no upper limit. I don't clear large structures any more and if my rifle is involved in a defensive effort, it is probably a solo affair (no team, no stacking.) As such, my favorite light is still the surefire scout series and the streamlight protacs - they do everything very well, they run on batteries I keep in abundance, and they are reliable as hell.
I have a few of the inforce AR lights and, for the money, like them.
I do entirely agree that most non-trained people clear rooms/homes/structures entirely wrong. If you cannot get some training on it, find some youtube videos by guys with real credentials, then have a plan for your home. And practice that plan.
Get one with low and high power. 1000 is way too much in the house. You’ll blind yourself potentially. 100-300 is more reasonable if waking up in pitch black to flipping a light on.
I'm not saying no one is wrong as in "Hey good job team, even though you suck everyone gets a trophy." That's woke BS thinking. I'm simply saying that in this thread, it's complete opinion on how many lumens is needed and that was a big part of these discussions.
What are you leaning towards?
Also, if you’re thinking you like the Rail Mount 1, but don’t think the 350 lumens is enough, they have two other versions: 650 or 1,000 lumens.
Also, as was previously mentioned, the Streamlight has Ten-Tap which is user selectable on how the bright each push of the button is and if it has a strobe. I set mine up so the first press of the button is low and double tapping goes to high. I don’t use strobe. The vast majority of the work I’ve done has been on low.
I'm leaning towards the 650 lumen Rail mount. Not to little not to much. Also, I am looking at Primary Arms and they have a "Cloud Defensive LCS Streamlight Pro-Tac Tape Switch Picatinny Mount" option when I choose a light. What exactly is this? I am putting the light on a Daniel Defense M4A1 which has a Picatinny quad rail.
The Streamlight will come with a tail cap button and a pressure pad (like what is on mine, pictured above). There are several ways to mount the pressure pad, including sticky adhesive or the little clips I use (again, see above).
The Cloud LCS is another method of mounting the pressure pad.
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Have the 1,000 HLX as a normal person. Great for lighting up inside the house and testing lighting up and down the block in the neighborhood (while not attached.) If you're worried about splashing yourself indoors the 650 would probably be a great way to do. Also, practice makes perfect.
100% agree on the Cloud Defensive LCS! The light will come with some light plastic attachment pieces for a rail but they don't really clamp down well. I picked up the Cloud Defensive tape switch holder earlier this year and it's bomb-proof. Once on, the holder isn't moving and the tape switch won't slide out. If you don't have a color preference they had some ODG blems for half off on their website recently.
For attaching to the rails, it'll come with a pic rail attachment. For MLOK and others, Arisaka has some great options. Have one and has worked solidly. Haley Strategic also makes attachment holders, likely others as well.
100% agree on the Cloud Defensive LCS! The light will come with some light plastic attachment pieces for a rail but they don't really clamp down well. I picked up the Cloud Defensive tape switch holder earlier this year and it's bomb-proof. Once on, the holder isn't moving and the tape switch won't slide out. If you don't have a color preference they had some ODG blems for half off on their website recently.
For attaching to the rails, it'll come with a pic rail attachment. For MLOK and others, Arisaka has some great options. Have one and has worked solidly. Haley Strategic also makes attachment holders, likely others as well.
Definitely don't want to put sticky adhesive on the DD rifle so that's not an option. That Cloud one looks like a winner though. It says "tape switch" not included. What is that and do I need it?
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I’ve always used the mounts that came with the light. Thus far, no failures or issues. I’m sure the Cloud is more secure, but I question if it’s worth the cost in weight and money.
Yeah that LCS would work great on the pic rail of my DD.
It has polymer and aluminum options. I'd think the aluminum would go best with the rail. Thoughts?
I would see if you can get by with the included mounts, first. If you can, there’s money that can go to other things.
If you want the Cloud mount (not saying you shouldn’t get it - it looks solid), you’re putting a plastic switch onto an aluminum rail. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
Please remember I don’t have the Cloud mount - my opinion on it shouldn’t count for much.
Crazy thing is, I was a Security Forces member in the Air Force and we never used an AR. I never went through CQB training with them so I've never used an AR weapon light, much less know how to attach and configure to my liking. I may have to see if Youtube has any videos on attaching the Protac rail mount light.
There's a lot of videos on them. I went with a right offset going off the right side, hugging close to the top. The tape switch I have in the middle on top so either hand could use it. The light comes with a pic rail attachment with the same footprint as the Surefire Scout (more on that later). If you put it right on top it might get in the way of your sights or anything else on top. Seems like most (but you do you) will put it off to the right or left sides. If you've got a quad rail, then the accompanied attachment will work. If the sides are MLOK or something else, then will need an attachment to add it to. For example, the Arisaka mount offset-scout-mount-cmr works for Surefire (and by extension the Streamlight as well with the same footprint.)
I'm in the "never enough lumens" crowd. I prefer a more yellow light the bright white makes it harder for me to distinguish things. But overall, especially outdoors... 1000 lumens gets swallowed up at 100 yards.
I'm a fan of the TLR1-HL mounted at 12 o'clock in front of the front sight if it's not too high for you/gets in the way of your LPVO
my friend likes it on the left side
not a fan of pressure switches as my surefire one failed on me
I don't like the flashlight bolted onto rail thing. I know the TLR is the same thing, but the flashlight bolted on looks really 15 years ago/VTAC style.
I'm a fan of the TLR1-HL mounted at 12 o'clock in front of the front sight if it's not too high for you/gets in the way of your LPVO
my friend likes it on the left side
not a fan of pressure switches as my surefire one failed on me
I don't like the flashlight bolted onto rail thing. I know the TLR is the same thing, but the flashlight bolted on looks really 15 years ago/VTAC style.
I love my (edit TLR-2G) , with green laser pointer on my mpx. I also have a streamlight HL I think with pad. Both are super solid.
I got this Olight with laser and pad for my AR pistol though and I have to say that I really like it. I got it because of the mount they have. It's designed such that it can hold a decent zero with the laser, (for a close range gun, not some 100 yd zero of course)but the light is still removable and usable as a hand held light, then it can go back on weapon instantly.
This pistol is one that I carry in my truck a lot, so that's why I chose that specific light, and it may not be the best set up for other primary functions, but I like it a lot. Their charging set up for the rechargeable battery is also super easy and works very well as does the magnetic locking tail cap for the pressure pad.
I got this Olight with laser and pad for my AR pistol though and I have to say that I really like it. I got it because of the mount they have. It's designed such that it can hold a decent zero with the laser, (for a close range gun, not some 100 yd zero of course)but the light is still removable and usable as a hand held light, then it can go back on weapon instantly.
This pistol is one that I carry in my truck a lot, so that's why I chose that specific light, and it may not be the best set up for other primary functions, but I like it a lot. Their charging set up for the rechargeable battery is also super easy and works very well as does the magnetic locking tail cap for the pressure pad.
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So is inside a white walled house in the dark the only time you will use a wml? This is a stupid arguement. There are +/- to everything, but light is like horsepower. You can always use more. Doesn't matter how bright your light is if it's dark and you shine it directly in a mirror or a bright wall it's going to mess up your vision. Use some common sense when using your light and you will want brighter not weaker.
How you got to this conclusion, from what I posted is an amazing display of a failure to comprehend.
Surely, you’re not as dense as you’re presenting. This thread has had good discussion, please stop trying to derail it.
Can you not see your quoted post in my post? What conclusion should I have come to after reading that? You are correct in saying there has been good discussion in this thread, but there has also been bad advice, I am not trying to derail anything but rather keep people from making stupid decisions based on what they read on the internet.
Yes, I see the exercise I posted so people would understand why I’m not on the “more is better“ side of the lumen discussion.
Somehow, you took that as “inside a white walled house in the dark the only time you will use a wml”. I don’t understand how you came to that conclusion, based on what I posted.
For the record, I did not say any time or place was the “only” anything.
For a weapon-mounted light, I have my preferences. On my belt I carried two lights. The Surefire 6P (60 lumens) and a Streamlight HL3 (1,000 lumens). There is a time and place for bright lights (to today’s standards).
I came to that conclusion because that is the only scenario you posted about. To me there are more reasons to have the brightest light possible on my firearm than a weaker light. ID at distance in the dark, lighting up a large room, defeating other lighting such as a flashlight or headlights pointed at you, lighting dark places in daylight conditions (in shadows, under obects), ect. If you want a weaker light for things carry it on your belt like you said. But weapon mounted should be as bright as possible.
SMH.
Have you ever woken up in the middle of the night and tried to use such a light? Did you forget this thread is about a home defense weapon light?
Tactical team scenarios are not home defense scenarios. Different applications, with different needs. Your own words - use some common sense - are good advice here, but you seem to be stuck on just one thing instead of following your own advice.
His post literally says indoor and outdoor home defense. And it's your home, if you are worried about too much light off a wall or mirror in the house you know then you should at least know where the light switches are.
+1 the cloud lcs, I ordered one with my hlx and it is very secure and easy to get the cable and switch sorted so you don’t have to resort to zip ties or tape.
You didn't answer the question. I'm betting that's a no then, typical of most of the "brighter is always better" crowd.
I'm also guessing all of the training or advice you listened to came from some sort of tactical entry environment. There's plenty to learn from that, but it's not the same situation as reacting to a threat in your home.
So tell me how it is different. The goal is the same either way, find, identify, and defeat the threat as quickly as possible. The firearm you would use would likely be the same, why wouldn't the light? There are methods for using a bright light in the single scenario you are hung up on, but there is absolutely no way to make a weaker light brighter when you need it. The op asked about a light for his AR for indoor and outdoor home defense. Yet you can't get past him shining it in his bathroom in the middle of the night.
I have multiple streamlights, zero issues. I will make one suggestion...
Cloud defenseive LCS, mines machined aluminum I think they have plastic now too.
Switch mounts solid and does wire management
Cloud defenseive LCS, mines machined aluminum I think they have plastic now too.
Switch mounts solid and does wire management
The problem with Cloud Defensive is their stuff is rarely in stock. I wanted some of their items for my Beretta 1301 shotgun and they were never in stock. I had to put a "Email me when in stock" notice so I can get one of these.
Don’t have any pics on hand of mine, but there’s channels machined into the underside of the LCS that the wire snuggly fits into. You can run a wire the full length or just one half the length and out of the center section with no clamping surface....if that makes sense
You can see it on their website, they also sell a kit with the light and the mount. It’s not cheap for what it is, but I have zero regrets buying one.
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