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Interesting info on 357 Mag

wvfarrier

Ignorant wretch
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 7, 2012
2,209
3,767
West (By GOD) Virginia
I am a huge fan of the original magnum and use it for most of my hunting needs but found this super interesting. These hunts were using the original load of a 158 grain SWC at 1515fps which generated over 800 ft lbs of energy.

Excerpts from Major Douglas B. Wesson's 1938 "Burning Powder".....

The original thought in developing the S&W .357 Magnum revolver was an arm compact enough to allow it to be handled freely and rapidly in a police cruiser car, and powerful enough to take the place of the much longer, and therefore more awkward handling, rifle. To accomplish this we believed that the cartridge should develop, with about a 160 grain bullet, 1400 to 1450 foot seconds muzzle velocity with an accompanying muzzle energy in the neighborhood of 700 to 750 foot pounds. We realized, of course, that in asking this we were going far beyond the known limits of hand-arms ballistics, as up to this time the most powerful commercial cartridge showed something less than 1300 foot seconds and, with a comparatively light bullet, developed but 465 foot pounds energy. The present design would, we felt confident, with any minor changes found necessary by experiment, handle the higher pressure required, and the increased recoil would be cared for by added weight.

The ammunition companies, however, when the proposition was put up to them, were most unenthusiastic; “It would be impossible to get accuracy with that velocity.” “The pressure developed would be beyond the ability of the arm to handle.” “The velocity desired would produce a recoil altogether too punishing.” And finally, coming down to the real meat, “There would be no call for a cartridge of such power and range.” Finally after many months of effort, the Winchester Repeating Arms Co. consented to attempt the production of such a cartridge, and for almost a year their ballistic department worked with us on it with the final result that they not only met, but surpassed our desired requirements, showing with a 158 grain bullet, 1515 foot seconds velocity, and 812 foot pounds energy. And with that terrific increase in speed and power, accuracy that compared most excellently with the most accurate of target loads, the .38 S&W Special Mid Range, and retained that accuracy (as painstaking tests have disclosed) up to 600 yards, a range heretofore considered utterly and completely beyond the limits of hand-arm shooting. It is an undisputable fact that the S&W .357 Magnum revolver has opened up an entirely new field in hand-arms ballistics.
Attachments
Douglas-Wesson-with-Moose-from-357-Magnum-239x300.png
Douglas-Wesson-with-Moose-from-357-Magnum
Top

In testing this new revolver and cartridge to determine its value as a police weapon we found that it would penetrate one, two, and even three thicknesses of “bullet proof” vests, swinging freely on a rod, and easily pass through duralumin plates that successfully withstood what were heretofore known as the most powerful hand-arm cartridges, the .38 Super Auto and the .38/44 S&W Special. One most interesting test was on an automobile: with the motor idling at high speed, one shot was fired through the hood from the Magnum, and the engine was wrecked: So much so, in fact, that it was impossible to turn it over even with the hand crank.

While talking of the Magnum it must be remembered that while it is tremendously effective with the S&W .357 Magnum cartridge, it can handle the full line of .38 S&W Special cartridges most excellently, making it actually the greatest “all ’round” hand-arm ever developed.

With the .38 S&W Mid Range Wadcutter cartridge it is not only a target arm of unexcelled accuracy, but most excellent for small game such as partridge and rabbit, making a clean hole, killing excellently and without spoiling meat.

With the standard .38 S&W Special Hi-Velocity, or .38/44 S&W Special you can obtain any graduations of range and power desired, and with greatest accuracy.

In our plant we have an experimental Magnum that has been fired, in the course of the past three years, well over 9,000 rounds of the S&W .357 Magnum ammunition, and very nearly double that number of other cartridges in the .38 S&W Special group. In order to determine the effect on the arm when using the shorter Special shells in the long Magnum chambering we did not clean the barrel or chambers of this revolver during this period, and we are very glad to say that recent tests showed that the accuracy of the arm had been affected in no way, nor were there the slightest signs of ill effect in any way whatsoever.

We found, oddly enough, that with all this demonstrated power the penetration of the Magnum in semi-hard material, such as wood, was little or no greater than with the .38/44 S&W Special. This condition we found was due to the fact that for the first time in hand-arms ballistics enough velocity was developed to produce true mushrooming of the solid lead bullet, and that means, of course, a maximum of efficiency and impact value.

It was at this point that we decided that the only remaining question was the actual efficiency of the arm on flesh, and to determine this our Colonel Wesson took a Magnum to Wyoming for trial on big game. An antelope at something over 200 yards required a second finishing shot, but an elk at 135 and a moose at 100 yards needed but one bullet each, and we felt that the Magnum had well demonstrated its worth as a big game weapon. Much to our surprise when we published the results of the trip, believing that it truly demonstrated the effectiveness of the arm, there appeared some most bitter criticism against the use of hand-arms for hunting large game. While we fully realized that this criticism came from people who had not the slightest conception of what we had accomplished in ballistics, there were many people who believed these critics to be justified; to substantiate our claims we have gathered from many parts of the world reports of large animals shot with the .357 Magnum. We believe that after reading them you will feel that we are well within the bounds of reason in saying, for the first time, “We can recommend the S&W .357 Magnum for big game, and furthermore we believe this kind of hunting requires more skill in stalking and more skill in shooting, and is therefore more thrilling and more satisfactory than with a rifle.”

Mr. J. F. Neilson and Mr. Joe Miller find their enjoyment in Cougar, or, as they call them around Vancouver, Lion, hunting. If, as it once happened, they find themselves without rifles, they tote a Magnum. On this particular hunt Mr. Neilson was nursing a couple of frozen toes, so it was Joe who had the gun. His first cat, an eight footer, needed one shot, the second the same, but Honest Joe admits firing twice as his first shot struck the atmosphere. This lad measured 7 feet 7 inches.

A few days later Joe went out again, Neilson still thawing out his toes, and brought in a six footer. This needed three shots, the first one taking the bark off the limb under its belly (you can’t “bark” a cougar as you can a squirrel), and as the cougar gave a leap and half rolled he fired again, hitting it in the belly. This brought the animal down, and Joe finished it with the third shot. This one was a six footer and is shown at the right in the picture. The one at the left is the eight foot lion, and the one partially showing on the ground, the seven foot, seven inch.

Joe says, “The Magnum can’t be beat. I’m no fancy shot and never shot a six-gun much; all you’ve got to do is hold on ‘um, nothing too big for it.”

Almon Temple of Oregon, had never had any experience with large caliber revolvers until he got his Magnum and fired about twenty-five shells before he went deer hunting. His first deer was sighted at about fifty yards, in full jump through heavy cover; he fired six shots, the last one at something over 100 yards. Two of the shots hit the deer in the leg and did little damage, but the third was higher and penetrated the full length of the back, bringing it down in 200 yards. The second deer was running when first sighted at approximately 100 yards, and the first shot hit it in the side, going through the liver and into the shoulder on the other side, killing the deer instantly.

Mr. Harold R. Johnson of Michigan confirms our belief in the Magnum as a big game gun most fully as follows: “The buck was badly scared and running full blast. I held just in front of shoulder and squeezed trigger. He fell as if he had been struck by a bolt of lightning.”

“I have hunted all my life since a boy and have taken a great deal of game but have never experienced the pleasure that I did in killing this one deer with my .357 S&W. I’ve seen a great many deer killed by friends and other hunters but none of them were killed any more cleanly with the rifles which they carried than was mine with my .357, and a great many of them were stopped only after they had been hit from two to four times with .30/30’s, .30/40’s, or even .30-06’s.”

Father Bernard R. Hubbard, S.J., the “Glacier Priest” has spent many long winters in Alaska; as this is being written he is frozen in on a little island in the Bering Straights between Alaska and Siberia, where he is taking observations. His tour of duty will extend from early August 1937, which was the latest he could reach there due to ice and storms, to early July 1938, when the first boat will be able to reach the island. Included in Father Hubbard’s equipment are some S&W .357 Magnum revolvers which are being used not only to supply the expedition with meat, but also as defense against the polar bears. Polar bears, the Father tells us, are among the few animals that will attack humans without provocation; humans move, and anything that moves, in the bear’s philosophy, must be good to eat. Father Hubbard said, when placing his order for the Magnums, “After giving these revolvers a thorough test I’m convinced that they have ample power for my purpose, and from the standpoint of convenience, are far superior to rifles.”

He added that he considered the Magnum to be powerful and effective to the point where he would not hesitate to use it for hunting the gigantic Kodiac bear, the largest and most powerful animal of the Western Hemisphere. As he has killed many Kodiacs with a rifle, and even one with a Smith & Wesson .38 Military and Police Model (although this was not premeditated on his part), we consider him to be well qualified to pass judgment.

From the big game hunters of Africa comes word of the Magnum. Mr. Walter H. Sykes, III, of New Jersey, recently returned from a safari, tells us: “Although I did not have a chance to use the Magnum on lion, I did kill wildebeest with it. Both Mr. Hunter and myself were very much surprised by the impact and penetration of this bullet. On one occasion a wildebeest, hit far back in the shoulder by a bullet, fired from a distance of approximately one hundred yards, was knocked from his feet by the impact. As the shot was too far back to be fatal, it was necessary to administer a finishing shot at close range. This bullet went entirely through the animal at a point just behind the shoulder, a feat which is unusual even for the 7mm. rifle which I was using.”

The Mr. Hunter mentioned by Mr. Sykes is one of the best known of the professional big game hunters and guides of Africa and resides in Nairobi, Kenya. He is most enthusiastic about his Magnum, and has promised us pictures of lion shot with it. His opinion of the arm as expressed in his book, “Africa as I have found it,” is that “it is the one and only hand-arm for African hunting.” Mr. Hunter is most interested in trying its effect on lions, and will try it out on African game as soon as the season commences. We are eagerly awaiting further news from him and hope it will arrive in time to be published in this edition of “Burning Powder.”

And so from the Arctic to Africa, from Michigan to the jungles of Brazil, come tales of the Magnum and its accomplishments on big game, and all this before it has reached its third birthday. Surely we are justified in saying, “The ultimate in accomplishment, in skillful stalking, in accurate shooting, is realized when one captures his trophy with a hand-gun, and we can, without reservations recommend the Magnum for big game hunting.”

Sasha A. Siemel hunts the jaguar, or “tigre” in the jungles of South America for pleasure and profit; when hunting alone for sport he uses only his bow, arrows and spear, but with guests (with rifles) sometimes “with clever running tigres my guests are not fast enough to keep up through heavy brush, and I need a light, powerful firearm that does not hinder me in following the hounds, as archery tackle or a rifle would when in one hand I’m carrying a long, heavy spear.”

“So far I have killed six tigres with my Magnum, as well as wild pig, our big marsh deer and tapir. This game we need for food or museum pieces.”

“In my opinion the Magnum is the best revolver ever made, and the ideal weapon for me to use in combination with the spear when I have guests for whose success and safety I’m responsible. It does all the work of a rifle and is light and easy to carry.”
 
I am a huge fan of the original magnum and use it for most of my hunting needs but found this super interesting. These hunts were using the original load of a 158 grain SWC at 1515fps which generated over 800 ft lbs of energy.

Excerpts from Major Douglas B. Wesson's 1938 "Burning Powder".....

The original thought in developing the S&W .357 Magnum revolver was an arm compact enough to allow it to be handled freely and rapidly in a police cruiser car, and powerful enough to take the place of the much longer, and therefore more awkward handling, rifle. To accomplish this we believed that the cartridge should develop, with about a 160 grain bullet, 1400 to 1450 foot seconds muzzle velocity with an accompanying muzzle energy in the neighborhood of 700 to 750 foot pounds. We realized, of course, that in asking this we were going far beyond the known limits of hand-arms ballistics, as up to this time the most powerful commercial cartridge showed something less than 1300 foot seconds and, with a comparatively light bullet, developed but 465 foot pounds energy. The present design would, we felt confident, with any minor changes found necessary by experiment, handle the higher pressure required, and the increased recoil would be cared for by added weight.

The ammunition companies, however, when the proposition was put up to them, were most unenthusiastic; “It would be impossible to get accuracy with that velocity.” “The pressure developed would be beyond the ability of the arm to handle.” “The velocity desired would produce a recoil altogether too punishing.” And finally, coming down to the real meat, “There would be no call for a cartridge of such power and range.” Finally after many months of effort, the Winchester Repeating Arms Co. consented to attempt the production of such a cartridge, and for almost a year their ballistic department worked with us on it with the final result that they not only met, but surpassed our desired requirements, showing with a 158 grain bullet, 1515 foot seconds velocity, and 812 foot pounds energy. And with that terrific increase in speed and power, accuracy that compared most excellently with the most accurate of target loads, the .38 S&W Special Mid Range, and retained that accuracy (as painstaking tests have disclosed) up to 600 yards, a range heretofore considered utterly and completely beyond the limits of hand-arm shooting. It is an undisputable fact that the S&W .357 Magnum revolver has opened up an entirely new field in hand-arms ballistics.
Attachments
Douglas-Wesson-with-Moose-from-357-Magnum-239x300.png
Douglas-Wesson-with-Moose-from-357-Magnum
Top

In testing this new revolver and cartridge to determine its value as a police weapon we found that it would penetrate one, two, and even three thicknesses of “bullet proof” vests, swinging freely on a rod, and easily pass through duralumin plates that successfully withstood what were heretofore known as the most powerful hand-arm cartridges, the .38 Super Auto and the .38/44 S&W Special. One most interesting test was on an automobile: with the motor idling at high speed, one shot was fired through the hood from the Magnum, and the engine was wrecked: So much so, in fact, that it was impossible to turn it over even with the hand crank.

While talking of the Magnum it must be remembered that while it is tremendously effective with the S&W .357 Magnum cartridge, it can handle the full line of .38 S&W Special cartridges most excellently, making it actually the greatest “all ’round” hand-arm ever developed.

With the .38 S&W Mid Range Wadcutter cartridge it is not only a target arm of unexcelled accuracy, but most excellent for small game such as partridge and rabbit, making a clean hole, killing excellently and without spoiling meat.

With the standard .38 S&W Special Hi-Velocity, or .38/44 S&W Special you can obtain any graduations of range and power desired, and with greatest accuracy.

In our plant we have an experimental Magnum that has been fired, in the course of the past three years, well over 9,000 rounds of the S&W .357 Magnum ammunition, and very nearly double that number of other cartridges in the .38 S&W Special group. In order to determine the effect on the arm when using the shorter Special shells in the long Magnum chambering we did not clean the barrel or chambers of this revolver during this period, and we are very glad to say that recent tests showed that the accuracy of the arm had been affected in no way, nor were there the slightest signs of ill effect in any way whatsoever.

We found, oddly enough, that with all this demonstrated power the penetration of the Magnum in semi-hard material, such as wood, was little or no greater than with the .38/44 S&W Special. This condition we found was due to the fact that for the first time in hand-arms ballistics enough velocity was developed to produce true mushrooming of the solid lead bullet, and that means, of course, a maximum of efficiency and impact value.

It was at this point that we decided that the only remaining question was the actual efficiency of the arm on flesh, and to determine this our Colonel Wesson took a Magnum to Wyoming for trial on big game. An antelope at something over 200 yards required a second finishing shot, but an elk at 135 and a moose at 100 yards needed but one bullet each, and we felt that the Magnum had well demonstrated its worth as a big game weapon. Much to our surprise when we published the results of the trip, believing that it truly demonstrated the effectiveness of the arm, there appeared some most bitter criticism against the use of hand-arms for hunting large game. While we fully realized that this criticism came from people who had not the slightest conception of what we had accomplished in ballistics, there were many people who believed these critics to be justified; to substantiate our claims we have gathered from many parts of the world reports of large animals shot with the .357 Magnum. We believe that after reading them you will feel that we are well within the bounds of reason in saying, for the first time, “We can recommend the S&W .357 Magnum for big game, and furthermore we believe this kind of hunting requires more skill in stalking and more skill in shooting, and is therefore more thrilling and more satisfactory than with a rifle.”

Mr. J. F. Neilson and Mr. Joe Miller find their enjoyment in Cougar, or, as they call them around Vancouver, Lion, hunting. If, as it once happened, they find themselves without rifles, they tote a Magnum. On this particular hunt Mr. Neilson was nursing a couple of frozen toes, so it was Joe who had the gun. His first cat, an eight footer, needed one shot, the second the same, but Honest Joe admits firing twice as his first shot struck the atmosphere. This lad measured 7 feet 7 inches.

A few days later Joe went out again, Neilson still thawing out his toes, and brought in a six footer. This needed three shots, the first one taking the bark off the limb under its belly (you can’t “bark” a cougar as you can a squirrel), and as the cougar gave a leap and half rolled he fired again, hitting it in the belly. This brought the animal down, and Joe finished it with the third shot. This one was a six footer and is shown at the right in the picture. The one at the left is the eight foot lion, and the one partially showing on the ground, the seven foot, seven inch.

Joe says, “The Magnum can’t be beat. I’m no fancy shot and never shot a six-gun much; all you’ve got to do is hold on ‘um, nothing too big for it.”

Almon Temple of Oregon, had never had any experience with large caliber revolvers until he got his Magnum and fired about twenty-five shells before he went deer hunting. His first deer was sighted at about fifty yards, in full jump through heavy cover; he fired six shots, the last one at something over 100 yards. Two of the shots hit the deer in the leg and did little damage, but the third was higher and penetrated the full length of the back, bringing it down in 200 yards. The second deer was running when first sighted at approximately 100 yards, and the first shot hit it in the side, going through the liver and into the shoulder on the other side, killing the deer instantly.

Mr. Harold R. Johnson of Michigan confirms our belief in the Magnum as a big game gun most fully as follows: “The buck was badly scared and running full blast. I held just in front of shoulder and squeezed trigger. He fell as if he had been struck by a bolt of lightning.”

“I have hunted all my life since a boy and have taken a great deal of game but have never experienced the pleasure that I did in killing this one deer with my .357 S&W. I’ve seen a great many deer killed by friends and other hunters but none of them were killed any more cleanly with the rifles which they carried than was mine with my .357, and a great many of them were stopped only after they had been hit from two to four times with .30/30’s, .30/40’s, or even .30-06’s.”

Father Bernard R. Hubbard, S.J., the “Glacier Priest” has spent many long winters in Alaska; as this is being written he is frozen in on a little island in the Bering Straights between Alaska and Siberia, where he is taking observations. His tour of duty will extend from early August 1937, which was the latest he could reach there due to ice and storms, to early July 1938, when the first boat will be able to reach the island. Included in Father Hubbard’s equipment are some S&W .357 Magnum revolvers which are being used not only to supply the expedition with meat, but also as defense against the polar bears. Polar bears, the Father tells us, are among the few animals that will attack humans without provocation; humans move, and anything that moves, in the bear’s philosophy, must be good to eat. Father Hubbard said, when placing his order for the Magnums, “After giving these revolvers a thorough test I’m convinced that they have ample power for my purpose, and from the standpoint of convenience, are far superior to rifles.”

He added that he considered the Magnum to be powerful and effective to the point where he would not hesitate to use it for hunting the gigantic Kodiac bear, the largest and most powerful animal of the Western Hemisphere. As he has killed many Kodiacs with a rifle, and even one with a Smith & Wesson .38 Military and Police Model (although this was not premeditated on his part), we consider him to be well qualified to pass judgment.

From the big game hunters of Africa comes word of the Magnum. Mr. Walter H. Sykes, III, of New Jersey, recently returned from a safari, tells us: “Although I did not have a chance to use the Magnum on lion, I did kill wildebeest with it. Both Mr. Hunter and myself were very much surprised by the impact and penetration of this bullet. On one occasion a wildebeest, hit far back in the shoulder by a bullet, fired from a distance of approximately one hundred yards, was knocked from his feet by the impact. As the shot was too far back to be fatal, it was necessary to administer a finishing shot at close range. This bullet went entirely through the animal at a point just behind the shoulder, a feat which is unusual even for the 7mm. rifle which I was using.”

The Mr. Hunter mentioned by Mr. Sykes is one of the best known of the professional big game hunters and guides of Africa and resides in Nairobi, Kenya. He is most enthusiastic about his Magnum, and has promised us pictures of lion shot with it. His opinion of the arm as expressed in his book, “Africa as I have found it,” is that “it is the one and only hand-arm for African hunting.” Mr. Hunter is most interested in trying its effect on lions, and will try it out on African game as soon as the season commences. We are eagerly awaiting further news from him and hope it will arrive in time to be published in this edition of “Burning Powder.”

And so from the Arctic to Africa, from Michigan to the jungles of Brazil, come tales of the Magnum and its accomplishments on big game, and all this before it has reached its third birthday. Surely we are justified in saying, “The ultimate in accomplishment, in skillful stalking, in accurate shooting, is realized when one captures his trophy with a hand-gun, and we can, without reservations recommend the Magnum for big game hunting.”

Sasha A. Siemel hunts the jaguar, or “tigre” in the jungles of South America for pleasure and profit; when hunting alone for sport he uses only his bow, arrows and spear, but with guests (with rifles) sometimes “with clever running tigres my guests are not fast enough to keep up through heavy brush, and I need a light, powerful firearm that does not hinder me in following the hounds, as archery tackle or a rifle would when in one hand I’m carrying a long, heavy spear.”

“So far I have killed six tigres with my Magnum, as well as wild pig, our big marsh deer and tapir. This game we need for food or museum pieces.”

“In my opinion the Magnum is the best revolver ever made, and the ideal weapon for me to use in combination with the spear when I have guests for whose success and safety I’m responsible. It does all the work of a rifle and is light and easy to carry.”

Its wild that some guys will say a .357 isn't even suited for deer past 50-75yds out of a rifle LOL.

My Marlin (rifle only) loads are cranking 158 XTP's at over 2000fps and 180gr GC hard cast at 1800fps.
 
Cool article, but I'm wondering how they measured velocity back then. Pretty sure the Labradar was still in development stage. :cool:
 
Cool article, but I'm wondering how they measured velocity back then. Pretty sure the Labradar was still in development stage. :cool:

Same. I'm sure there was a way, but I didn't think modern style chronographs came about until the 40's or 50's?
 
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I am a huge fan of the original magnum and use it for most of my hunting needs but found this super interesting. These hunts were using the original load of a 158 grain SWC at 1515fps which generated over 800 ft lbs of energy.

Excerpts from Major Douglas B. Wesson's 1938 "Burning Powder".....

The original thought in developing the S&W .357 Magnum revolver was an arm compact enough to allow it to be handled freely and rapidly in a police cruiser car, and powerful enough to take the place of the much longer, and therefore more awkward handling, rifle. To accomplish this we believed that the cartridge should develop, with about a 160 grain bullet, 1400 to 1450 foot seconds muzzle velocity with an accompanying muzzle energy in the neighborhood of 700 to 750 foot pounds. We realized, of course, that in asking this we were going far beyond the known limits of hand-arms ballistics, as up to this time the most powerful commercial cartridge showed something less than 1300 foot seconds and, with a comparatively light bullet, developed but 465 foot pounds energy. The present design would, we felt confident, with any minor changes found necessary by experiment, handle the higher pressure required, and the increased recoil would be cared for by added weight.

The ammunition companies, however, when the proposition was put up to them, were most unenthusiastic; “It would be impossible to get accuracy with that velocity.” “The pressure developed would be beyond the ability of the arm to handle.” “The velocity desired would produce a recoil altogether too punishing.” And finally, coming down to the real meat, “There would be no call for a cartridge of such power and range.” Finally after many months of effort, the Winchester Repeating Arms Co. consented to attempt the production of such a cartridge, and for almost a year their ballistic department worked with us on it with the final result that they not only met, but surpassed our desired requirements, showing with a 158 grain bullet, 1515 foot seconds velocity, and 812 foot pounds energy. And with that terrific increase in speed and power, accuracy that compared most excellently with the most accurate of target loads, the .38 S&W Special Mid Range, and retained that accuracy (as painstaking tests have disclosed) up to 600 yards, a range heretofore considered utterly and completely beyond the limits of hand-arm shooting. It is an undisputable fact that the S&W .357 Magnum revolver has opened up an entirely new field in hand-arms ballistics.
Attachments
Douglas-Wesson-with-Moose-from-357-Magnum-239x300.png
Douglas-Wesson-with-Moose-from-357-Magnum
Top

In testing this new revolver and cartridge to determine its value as a police weapon we found that it would penetrate one, two, and even three thicknesses of “bullet proof” vests, swinging freely on a rod, and easily pass through duralumin plates that successfully withstood what were heretofore known as the most powerful hand-arm cartridges, the .38 Super Auto and the .38/44 S&W Special. One most interesting test was on an automobile: with the motor idling at high speed, one shot was fired through the hood from the Magnum, and the engine was wrecked: So much so, in fact, that it was impossible to turn it over even with the hand crank.

While talking of the Magnum it must be remembered that while it is tremendously effective with the S&W .357 Magnum cartridge, it can handle the full line of .38 S&W Special cartridges most excellently, making it actually the greatest “all ’round” hand-arm ever developed.

With the .38 S&W Mid Range Wadcutter cartridge it is not only a target arm of unexcelled accuracy, but most excellent for small game such as partridge and rabbit, making a clean hole, killing excellently and without spoiling meat.

With the standard .38 S&W Special Hi-Velocity, or .38/44 S&W Special you can obtain any graduations of range and power desired, and with greatest accuracy.

In our plant we have an experimental Magnum that has been fired, in the course of the past three years, well over 9,000 rounds of the S&W .357 Magnum ammunition, and very nearly double that number of other cartridges in the .38 S&W Special group. In order to determine the effect on the arm when using the shorter Special shells in the long Magnum chambering we did not clean the barrel or chambers of this revolver during this period, and we are very glad to say that recent tests showed that the accuracy of the arm had been affected in no way, nor were there the slightest signs of ill effect in any way whatsoever.

We found, oddly enough, that with all this demonstrated power the penetration of the Magnum in semi-hard material, such as wood, was little or no greater than with the .38/44 S&W Special. This condition we found was due to the fact that for the first time in hand-arms ballistics enough velocity was developed to produce true mushrooming of the solid lead bullet, and that means, of course, a maximum of efficiency and impact value.

It was at this point that we decided that the only remaining question was the actual efficiency of the arm on flesh, and to determine this our Colonel Wesson took a Magnum to Wyoming for trial on big game. An antelope at something over 200 yards required a second finishing shot, but an elk at 135 and a moose at 100 yards needed but one bullet each, and we felt that the Magnum had well demonstrated its worth as a big game weapon. Much to our surprise when we published the results of the trip, believing that it truly demonstrated the effectiveness of the arm, there appeared some most bitter criticism against the use of hand-arms for hunting large game. While we fully realized that this criticism came from people who had not the slightest conception of what we had accomplished in ballistics, there were many people who believed these critics to be justified; to substantiate our claims we have gathered from many parts of the world reports of large animals shot with the .357 Magnum. We believe that after reading them you will feel that we are well within the bounds of reason in saying, for the first time, “We can recommend the S&W .357 Magnum for big game, and furthermore we believe this kind of hunting requires more skill in stalking and more skill in shooting, and is therefore more thrilling and more satisfactory than with a rifle.”

Mr. J. F. Neilson and Mr. Joe Miller find their enjoyment in Cougar, or, as they call them around Vancouver, Lion, hunting. If, as it once happened, they find themselves without rifles, they tote a Magnum. On this particular hunt Mr. Neilson was nursing a couple of frozen toes, so it was Joe who had the gun. His first cat, an eight footer, needed one shot, the second the same, but Honest Joe admits firing twice as his first shot struck the atmosphere. This lad measured 7 feet 7 inches.

A few days later Joe went out again, Neilson still thawing out his toes, and brought in a six footer. This needed three shots, the first one taking the bark off the limb under its belly (you can’t “bark” a cougar as you can a squirrel), and as the cougar gave a leap and half rolled he fired again, hitting it in the belly. This brought the animal down, and Joe finished it with the third shot. This one was a six footer and is shown at the right in the picture. The one at the left is the eight foot lion, and the one partially showing on the ground, the seven foot, seven inch.

Joe says, “The Magnum can’t be beat. I’m no fancy shot and never shot a six-gun much; all you’ve got to do is hold on ‘um, nothing too big for it.”

Almon Temple of Oregon, had never had any experience with large caliber revolvers until he got his Magnum and fired about twenty-five shells before he went deer hunting. His first deer was sighted at about fifty yards, in full jump through heavy cover; he fired six shots, the last one at something over 100 yards. Two of the shots hit the deer in the leg and did little damage, but the third was higher and penetrated the full length of the back, bringing it down in 200 yards. The second deer was running when first sighted at approximately 100 yards, and the first shot hit it in the side, going through the liver and into the shoulder on the other side, killing the deer instantly.

Mr. Harold R. Johnson of Michigan confirms our belief in the Magnum as a big game gun most fully as follows: “The buck was badly scared and running full blast. I held just in front of shoulder and squeezed trigger. He fell as if he had been struck by a bolt of lightning.”

“I have hunted all my life since a boy and have taken a great deal of game but have never experienced the pleasure that I did in killing this one deer with my .357 S&W. I’ve seen a great many deer killed by friends and other hunters but none of them were killed any more cleanly with the rifles which they carried than was mine with my .357, and a great many of them were stopped only after they had been hit from two to four times with .30/30’s, .30/40’s, or even .30-06’s.”

Father Bernard R. Hubbard, S.J., the “Glacier Priest” has spent many long winters in Alaska; as this is being written he is frozen in on a little island in the Bering Straights between Alaska and Siberia, where he is taking observations. His tour of duty will extend from early August 1937, which was the latest he could reach there due to ice and storms, to early July 1938, when the first boat will be able to reach the island. Included in Father Hubbard’s equipment are some S&W .357 Magnum revolvers which are being used not only to supply the expedition with meat, but also as defense against the polar bears. Polar bears, the Father tells us, are among the few animals that will attack humans without provocation; humans move, and anything that moves, in the bear’s philosophy, must be good to eat. Father Hubbard said, when placing his order for the Magnums, “After giving these revolvers a thorough test I’m convinced that they have ample power for my purpose, and from the standpoint of convenience, are far superior to rifles.”

He added that he considered the Magnum to be powerful and effective to the point where he would not hesitate to use it for hunting the gigantic Kodiac bear, the largest and most powerful animal of the Western Hemisphere. As he has killed many Kodiacs with a rifle, and even one with a Smith & Wesson .38 Military and Police Model (although this was not premeditated on his part), we consider him to be well qualified to pass judgment.

From the big game hunters of Africa comes word of the Magnum. Mr. Walter H. Sykes, III, of New Jersey, recently returned from a safari, tells us: “Although I did not have a chance to use the Magnum on lion, I did kill wildebeest with it. Both Mr. Hunter and myself were very much surprised by the impact and penetration of this bullet. On one occasion a wildebeest, hit far back in the shoulder by a bullet, fired from a distance of approximately one hundred yards, was knocked from his feet by the impact. As the shot was too far back to be fatal, it was necessary to administer a finishing shot at close range. This bullet went entirely through the animal at a point just behind the shoulder, a feat which is unusual even for the 7mm. rifle which I was using.”

The Mr. Hunter mentioned by Mr. Sykes is one of the best known of the professional big game hunters and guides of Africa and resides in Nairobi, Kenya. He is most enthusiastic about his Magnum, and has promised us pictures of lion shot with it. His opinion of the arm as expressed in his book, “Africa as I have found it,” is that “it is the one and only hand-arm for African hunting.” Mr. Hunter is most interested in trying its effect on lions, and will try it out on African game as soon as the season commences. We are eagerly awaiting further news from him and hope it will arrive in time to be published in this edition of “Burning Powder.”

And so from the Arctic to Africa, from Michigan to the jungles of Brazil, come tales of the Magnum and its accomplishments on big game, and all this before it has reached its third birthday. Surely we are justified in saying, “The ultimate in accomplishment, in skillful stalking, in accurate shooting, is realized when one captures his trophy with a hand-gun, and we can, without reservations recommend the Magnum for big game hunting.”

Sasha A. Siemel hunts the jaguar, or “tigre” in the jungles of South America for pleasure and profit; when hunting alone for sport he uses only his bow, arrows and spear, but with guests (with rifles) sometimes “with clever running tigres my guests are not fast enough to keep up through heavy brush, and I need a light, powerful firearm that does not hinder me in following the hounds, as archery tackle or a rifle would when in one hand I’m carrying a long, heavy spear.”

“So far I have killed six tigres with my Magnum, as well as wild pig, our big marsh deer and tapir. This game we need for food or museum pieces.”

“In my opinion the Magnum is the best revolver ever made, and the ideal weapon for me to use in combination with the spear when I have guests for whose success and safety I’m responsible. It does all the work of a rifle and is light and easy to carry.”
Wow! No mention of Elmer Keith AT ALL!!!

I'm sorry, but that omission is about as egregious as I've ever seen. That bullshit reads like they came up with it and tested it themselves when Keith's experimenting and load development is what directly led S&W to develop it into a production gun, using the exact recipes that Keith developed and published.
"The original thought in developing the S&W .357 Magnum revolver was an arm compact enough to allow it to be handled freely and rapidly in a police cruiser car, and powerful enough to take the place of the much longer, and therefore more awkward handling, rifle."
This is a bald faced lie. You cannot tell me that the most widely published and prolific gun writer of the 1930s had nothing to do with the .357 Magnum, but it was all the brainchild of Wesson!!! Bullshit!

Keith was shooting and writing about .357 Magnums YEARS before you could actually buy one, and that Wesson pretends he didn't exist makes him a fabulist if not an outright liar.
 
Really? Not doubting you, I've never looked into it.

I'm just surprised they had the technology back then.

Patented in 1874, @sirhrmechanic has had some posts on the museum and that item iirc.
 
I am a huge fan of the original magnum and use it for most of my hunting needs but found this super interesting. These hunts were using the original load of a 158 grain SWC at 1515fps which generated over 800 ft lbs of energy.

Excerpts from Major Douglas B. Wesson's 1938 "Burning Powder".....

The original thought in developing the S&W .357 Magnum revolver was an arm compact enough to allow it to be handled freely and rapidly in a police cruiser car, and powerful enough to take the place of the much longer, and therefore more awkward handling, rifle. To accomplish this we believed that the cartridge should develop, with about a 160 grain bullet, 1400 to 1450 foot seconds muzzle velocity with an accompanying muzzle energy in the neighborhood of 700 to 750 foot pounds. We realized, of course, that in asking this we were going far beyond the known limits of hand-arms ballistics, as up to this time the most powerful commercial cartridge showed something less than 1300 foot seconds and, with a comparatively light bullet, developed but 465 foot pounds energy. The present design would, we felt confident, with any minor changes found necessary by experiment, handle the higher pressure required, and the increased recoil would be cared for by added weight.

The ammunition companies, however, when the proposition was put up to them, were most unenthusiastic; “It would be impossible to get accuracy with that velocity.” “The pressure developed would be beyond the ability of the arm to handle.” “The velocity desired would produce a recoil altogether too punishing.” And finally, coming down to the real meat, “There would be no call for a cartridge of such power and range.” Finally after many months of effort, the Winchester Repeating Arms Co. consented to attempt the production of such a cartridge, and for almost a year their ballistic department worked with us on it with the final result that they not only met, but surpassed our desired requirements, showing with a 158 grain bullet, 1515 foot seconds velocity, and 812 foot pounds energy. And with that terrific increase in speed and power, accuracy that compared most excellently with the most accurate of target loads, the .38 S&W Special Mid Range, and retained that accuracy (as painstaking tests have disclosed) up to 600 yards, a range heretofore considered utterly and completely beyond the limits of hand-arm shooting. It is an undisputable fact that the S&W .357 Magnum revolver has opened up an entirely new field in hand-arms ballistics.
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In testing this new revolver and cartridge to determine its value as a police weapon we found that it would penetrate one, two, and even three thicknesses of “bullet proof” vests, swinging freely on a rod, and easily pass through duralumin plates that successfully withstood what were heretofore known as the most powerful hand-arm cartridges, the .38 Super Auto and the .38/44 S&W Special. One most interesting test was on an automobile: with the motor idling at high speed, one shot was fired through the hood from the Magnum, and the engine was wrecked: So much so, in fact, that it was impossible to turn it over even with the hand crank.

While talking of the Magnum it must be remembered that while it is tremendously effective with the S&W .357 Magnum cartridge, it can handle the full line of .38 S&W Special cartridges most excellently, making it actually the greatest “all ’round” hand-arm ever developed.

With the .38 S&W Mid Range Wadcutter cartridge it is not only a target arm of unexcelled accuracy, but most excellent for small game such as partridge and rabbit, making a clean hole, killing excellently and without spoiling meat.

With the standard .38 S&W Special Hi-Velocity, or .38/44 S&W Special you can obtain any graduations of range and power desired, and with greatest accuracy.

In our plant we have an experimental Magnum that has been fired, in the course of the past three years, well over 9,000 rounds of the S&W .357 Magnum ammunition, and very nearly double that number of other cartridges in the .38 S&W Special group. In order to determine the effect on the arm when using the shorter Special shells in the long Magnum chambering we did not clean the barrel or chambers of this revolver during this period, and we are very glad to say that recent tests showed that the accuracy of the arm had been affected in no way, nor were there the slightest signs of ill effect in any way whatsoever.

We found, oddly enough, that with all this demonstrated power the penetration of the Magnum in semi-hard material, such as wood, was little or no greater than with the .38/44 S&W Special. This condition we found was due to the fact that for the first time in hand-arms ballistics enough velocity was developed to produce true mushrooming of the solid lead bullet, and that means, of course, a maximum of efficiency and impact value.

It was at this point that we decided that the only remaining question was the actual efficiency of the arm on flesh, and to determine this our Colonel Wesson took a Magnum to Wyoming for trial on big game. An antelope at something over 200 yards required a second finishing shot, but an elk at 135 and a moose at 100 yards needed but one bullet each, and we felt that the Magnum had well demonstrated its worth as a big game weapon. Much to our surprise when we published the results of the trip, believing that it truly demonstrated the effectiveness of the arm, there appeared some most bitter criticism against the use of hand-arms for hunting large game. While we fully realized that this criticism came from people who had not the slightest conception of what we had accomplished in ballistics, there were many people who believed these critics to be justified; to substantiate our claims we have gathered from many parts of the world reports of large animals shot with the .357 Magnum. We believe that after reading them you will feel that we are well within the bounds of reason in saying, for the first time, “We can recommend the S&W .357 Magnum for big game, and furthermore we believe this kind of hunting requires more skill in stalking and more skill in shooting, and is therefore more thrilling and more satisfactory than with a rifle.”

Mr. J. F. Neilson and Mr. Joe Miller find their enjoyment in Cougar, or, as they call them around Vancouver, Lion, hunting. If, as it once happened, they find themselves without rifles, they tote a Magnum. On this particular hunt Mr. Neilson was nursing a couple of frozen toes, so it was Joe who had the gun. His first cat, an eight footer, needed one shot, the second the same, but Honest Joe admits firing twice as his first shot struck the atmosphere. This lad measured 7 feet 7 inches.

A few days later Joe went out again, Neilson still thawing out his toes, and brought in a six footer. This needed three shots, the first one taking the bark off the limb under its belly (you can’t “bark” a cougar as you can a squirrel), and as the cougar gave a leap and half rolled he fired again, hitting it in the belly. This brought the animal down, and Joe finished it with the third shot. This one was a six footer and is shown at the right in the picture. The one at the left is the eight foot lion, and the one partially showing on the ground, the seven foot, seven inch.

Joe says, “The Magnum can’t be beat. I’m no fancy shot and never shot a six-gun much; all you’ve got to do is hold on ‘um, nothing too big for it.”

Almon Temple of Oregon, had never had any experience with large caliber revolvers until he got his Magnum and fired about twenty-five shells before he went deer hunting. His first deer was sighted at about fifty yards, in full jump through heavy cover; he fired six shots, the last one at something over 100 yards. Two of the shots hit the deer in the leg and did little damage, but the third was higher and penetrated the full length of the back, bringing it down in 200 yards. The second deer was running when first sighted at approximately 100 yards, and the first shot hit it in the side, going through the liver and into the shoulder on the other side, killing the deer instantly.

Mr. Harold R. Johnson of Michigan confirms our belief in the Magnum as a big game gun most fully as follows: “The buck was badly scared and running full blast. I held just in front of shoulder and squeezed trigger. He fell as if he had been struck by a bolt of lightning.”

“I have hunted all my life since a boy and have taken a great deal of game but have never experienced the pleasure that I did in killing this one deer with my .357 S&W. I’ve seen a great many deer killed by friends and other hunters but none of them were killed any more cleanly with the rifles which they carried than was mine with my .357, and a great many of them were stopped only after they had been hit from two to four times with .30/30’s, .30/40’s, or even .30-06’s.”

Father Bernard R. Hubbard, S.J., the “Glacier Priest” has spent many long winters in Alaska; as this is being written he is frozen in on a little island in the Bering Straights between Alaska and Siberia, where he is taking observations. His tour of duty will extend from early August 1937, which was the latest he could reach there due to ice and storms, to early July 1938, when the first boat will be able to reach the island. Included in Father Hubbard’s equipment are some S&W .357 Magnum revolvers which are being used not only to supply the expedition with meat, but also as defense against the polar bears. Polar bears, the Father tells us, are among the few animals that will attack humans without provocation; humans move, and anything that moves, in the bear’s philosophy, must be good to eat. Father Hubbard said, when placing his order for the Magnums, “After giving these revolvers a thorough test I’m convinced that they have ample power for my purpose, and from the standpoint of convenience, are far superior to rifles.”

He added that he considered the Magnum to be powerful and effective to the point where he would not hesitate to use it for hunting the gigantic Kodiac bear, the largest and most powerful animal of the Western Hemisphere. As he has killed many Kodiacs with a rifle, and even one with a Smith & Wesson .38 Military and Police Model (although this was not premeditated on his part), we consider him to be well qualified to pass judgment.

From the big game hunters of Africa comes word of the Magnum. Mr. Walter H. Sykes, III, of New Jersey, recently returned from a safari, tells us: “Although I did not have a chance to use the Magnum on lion, I did kill wildebeest with it. Both Mr. Hunter and myself were very much surprised by the impact and penetration of this bullet. On one occasion a wildebeest, hit far back in the shoulder by a bullet, fired from a distance of approximately one hundred yards, was knocked from his feet by the impact. As the shot was too far back to be fatal, it was necessary to administer a finishing shot at close range. This bullet went entirely through the animal at a point just behind the shoulder, a feat which is unusual even for the 7mm. rifle which I was using.”

The Mr. Hunter mentioned by Mr. Sykes is one of the best known of the professional big game hunters and guides of Africa and resides in Nairobi, Kenya. He is most enthusiastic about his Magnum, and has promised us pictures of lion shot with it. His opinion of the arm as expressed in his book, “Africa as I have found it,” is that “it is the one and only hand-arm for African hunting.” Mr. Hunter is most interested in trying its effect on lions, and will try it out on African game as soon as the season commences. We are eagerly awaiting further news from him and hope it will arrive in time to be published in this edition of “Burning Powder.”

And so from the Arctic to Africa, from Michigan to the jungles of Brazil, come tales of the Magnum and its accomplishments on big game, and all this before it has reached its third birthday. Surely we are justified in saying, “The ultimate in accomplishment, in skillful stalking, in accurate shooting, is realized when one captures his trophy with a hand-gun, and we can, without reservations recommend the Magnum for big game hunting.”

Sasha A. Siemel hunts the jaguar, or “tigre” in the jungles of South America for pleasure and profit; when hunting alone for sport he uses only his bow, arrows and spear, but with guests (with rifles) sometimes “with clever running tigres my guests are not fast enough to keep up through heavy brush, and I need a light, powerful firearm that does not hinder me in following the hounds, as archery tackle or a rifle would when in one hand I’m carrying a long, heavy spear.”

“So far I have killed six tigres with my Magnum, as well as wild pig, our big marsh deer and tapir. This game we need for food or museum pieces.”

“In my opinion the Magnum is the best revolver ever made, and the ideal weapon for me to use in combination with the spear when I have guests for whose success and safety I’m responsible. It does all the work of a rifle and is light and easy to carry.”
Killed a black bear with both a .44 magnum and another with my S&W model 586. Shooting the same 125 grain round I used on the street. It was close range over bait but I took a black bear of slightly over 300 pounds with 1 round through the spine and anchored. And it was much more pleasant than the heavy .44 I was told I would need.
 
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Wow! No mention of Elmer Keith AT ALL!!!

I'm sorry, but that omission is about as egregious as I've ever seen. That bullshit reads like they came up with it and tested it themselves when Keith's experimenting and load development is what directly led S&W to develop it into a production gun, using the exact recipes that Keith developed and published.
"The original thought in developing the S&W .357 Magnum revolver was an arm compact enough to allow it to be handled freely and rapidly in a police cruiser car, and powerful enough to take the place of the much longer, and therefore more awkward handling, rifle."
This is a bald faced lie. You cannot tell me that the most widely published and prolific gun writer of the 1930s had nothing to do with the .357 Magnum, but it was all the brainchild of Wesson!!! Bullshit!

Keith was shooting and writing about .357 Magnums YEARS before you could actually buy one, and that Wesson pretends he didn't exist makes him a fabulist if not an outright liar.
It appears you have some serious factual issues in your post.

Elmer Keith was a complete bullshit slinger. I knew several people who guided and hunted with him. Most detested him. At least one had him removed from camp mid hunt and fired.( He was an assistant cook who was so full of shit the entire camp hated him) He later wrote a fictional account of the hunt where he was the outfitter, head guide etc. A couple were 50/50 as they could overlook the bullshit slinging and insecurity issues. He was a joke in his home town where everyone wondered why it required not one but two .44 magnums to walk a couple of blocks and pick up his mail at the post office. Just a local lunatic. He did run a good con on folks who knew nothing. They worshipped him. The type who think it takes a .400 Whalen to kill a mule deer that can be killed with a 22 magnum.

Doug Wesson was the proprietor (Vice President) of a small manufacturing firm called Smith & Wesson. He hunted widely, had the ballistic research of S&W at his fingertips. Widely respected, had integrity. He was a generation or more older than Keith. When the .357 came out it was in the “Public Enemy” era. Keith was about 30 years old and starving on a ranch in Durkee OR.

Along with others Keith did push to get the .44 Magnum developed but had nothing to do with the .357. Just proof that if you push bullshit long enough and loud enough things can happen regardless of truth or integrity. Keith angered a lot of people by laying claim to have “invented” all kinds of gun and hunting related items which was a complete fabrication.

Elmer Keith would have taken a step up to be a janitor at S&W when the .357 was developed.
 
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It appears you have some serious factual issues in your post.

Elmer Keith was a complete bullshit slinger. I knew several people who guided and hunted with him. Most detested him. At least one had him removed from camp mid hunt and fired.( He was an assistant cook who was so full of shit the entire camp hated him) He later wrote a fictional account of the hunt where he was the outfitter, head guide etc. A couple were 50/50 as they could overlook the bullshit slinging and insecurity issues. He was a joke in his home town where everyone wondered why it required not one but two .44 magnums to walk a couple of blocks and pick up his mail at the post office. Just a local lunatic. He did run a good con on folks who knew nothing. They worshipped him. The type who think it takes a .400 Whalen to kill a mule deer that can be killed with a 22 magnum.

Doug Wesson was the proprietor (Vice President) of a small manufacturing firm called Smith & Wesson. He hunted widely, had the ballistic research of S&W at his fingertips. Widely respected, had integrity. He was a generation or more older than Keith. When the .357 came out it was in the “Public Enemy” era. Keith was about 30 years old and starving on a ranch in Durkee OR.

Along with others Keith did push to get the .44 Magnum developed but had nothing to do with the .357. Just proof that if you push bullshit long enough and loud enough things can happen regardless of truth or integrity. Keith angered a lot of people by laying claim to have “invented” all kinds of gun and hunting related items which was a complete fabrication.

Elmer Keith would have taken a step up to be a janitor at S&W when the .357 was developed.
I never met Elmer personally but some men that respect that did know him respect him. I never read the guy but I wasn’t aware of his claiming to have helped develop the .357. The .44 mag certainly but not the .357 and if he did I apologize but I haven’t heard it.
 
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I don’t think he claimed to have done so. It was really too early for him to have been involved.
He did make a lot of claims but that was not one of them.
 
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I don’t think he claimed to have done so. It was really too early for him to have been involved.
He did make a lot of claims but that was not one of them.
I went to gun site a couple of times in the mid 80’s or maybe 83ish and met Jeff Cooper. Cooper seemed to hold him in some regard though he did not believe coopers claim to have killed a deer at 600 yards with a .44 mag at all. He said would have to be fired like a mortar round.
 
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I went to gun site a couple of times in the mid 80’s or maybe 83ish and met Jeff Cooper. Cooper seemed to hold him in some regard though he did not believe coopers claim to have killed a deer at 600 yards with a .44 mag at all. He said would have to be fired like a mortar round.
From what I remember being told (FWIW,NM) Keith did walk rounds in on that shot and connected with the last shot in the cylinder. It made me a little skeptical of ALL Gun writers claims after that (good thing).

I still like the cast 240g SWC that is attributed to him for an accurate projectile in the 44 Mag and Special.
 
I have no idea about him personally, nor do I care if he was a total ass or not (but you have that in common). Nor do I doubt that some serial gun writer was somewhat of a fabulist and probably wrote tall tales because he thought they would sell better. I've read alot of old articles by Keith when I was a kid, but rarely hear anything about him since.

You are simply wrong. He wrote extensively about hot loading the .38 to the point of destruction, and made hi-brass cartridges for his .38, which became the .357 Magnum. In all he wrote about it in a dozen articles on his long .38 cartridges and the 158 RNs he cast for his experiments.

If you believe Wesson had no idea and never read anything about it you even more of a fucking idiot than your post would suggest.

Did Keith build and sell a .357? No. Did he come up with the idea for a .357/.38 magnum? Absolutely, and wrote quite a bit about it before anyone else, and a few years before Wesson pretends it was all his idea. Maybe he was a dick and Wesson hated him so he took all the credit, but he's also a liar if you believe this was his brain child.

A quick google search comes up with a half dozzen articles about Keith experimenting with the .38 and writing about it, and lo an behold a few years later they start bulking up .38 revolvers to safely handle the loads he was publishing right down to the 158gr pushed fast.

I could give a fuck about either of them, but to deny that Keith had anything to do with it is to simply be in ignoramus. Fuck Col. Wesson in his lying ass.
 
I still lord a lot of 38 special to 38/44 levels in my 357 Mags. Issue with the N-Frames is cylinder length and heavier bullets.

358429 cast from relatively soft lead over a stout dose of Unique or 2400 are still my favorite loads.
 
Nice reply, now take your medicine.
I assume you Googled "Elmer Kieth .357". You can probably find all the (dated) articles on his .38 hot-loads years before there was an actual .357 Magnum. I can't remember what the old magazines in my Dad's reloading room were (there was a big box of them), but that's where I read the original, or reprinted articles when I was a kid. There were magazines in there that showed new, Winchester, repeating rifles for $20.

I don't doubt that Keith's writing was full of shit (beyond publishing his reloading data). I don't hold him in some kind of high esteem, just like I don't think Wiley Clap is anything special to anyone but a Fudd NRA life member. I would say that both Wesson and Keith were probably equally full of shit, but at least Keith published his loads and findings rather than making up a ridiculous story to tell a reporter like Wesson. I assume he invented the question mark as well...

What kind of Colonel was he anyway, a Kentucky Colonel? He grew up a filthy rich kid on a gigantic estate, and inherited the firearms manufacturing dynasty. Your heros suck.

You should go fight with the Wikipedia people and the entire rest of the internet over your bullshit post. :ROFLMAO:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_Keith
 
No, you assume incorrectly. I lost interest in your bullshit long ago, but keep it up. You’re fun to watch like a screaming kid in the checkout line.
 
Here is a rare magnum for ya
#133 of 250
S&W 27-8
Lew Horton Registered Magnum
Performance Center
First run of 8rd 357s.
View attachment 8132557
That is a really nice piece! Shoeing horses is a dying art. You deserve this piece!
I have no idea about him personally, nor do I care if he was a total ass or not (but you have that in common). Nor do I doubt that some serial gun writer was somewhat of a fabulist and probably wrote tall tales because he thought they would sell better. I've read alot of old articles by Keith when I was a kid, but rarely hear anything about him since.

You are simply wrong. He wrote extensively about hot loading the .38 to the point of destruction, and made hi-brass cartridges for his .38, which became the .357 Magnum. In all he wrote about it in a dozen articles on his long .38 cartridges and the 158 RNs he cast for his experiments.

If you believe Wesson had no idea and never read anything about it you even more of a fucking idiot than your post would suggest.

Did Keith build and sell a .357? No. Did he come up with the idea for a .357/.38 magnum? Absolutely, and wrote quite a bit about it before anyone else, and a few years before Wesson pretends it was all his idea. Maybe he was a dick and Wesson hated him so he took all the credit, but he's also a liar if you believe this was his brain child.

A quick google search comes up with a half dozzen articles about Keith experimenting with the .38 and writing about it, and lo an behold a few years later they start bulking up .38 revolvers to safely handle the loads he was publishing right down to the 158gr pushed fast.

I could give a fuck about either of them, but to deny that Keith had anything to do with it is to simply be in ignoramus. Fuck Col. Wesson in his lying ass.
wow! I think they make meds for that.
I luv luv luv my 686!
(and my 1894CB)
I love
I luv luv luv my 686!
(and my 1894CB)
I love royal blue of my 586 but if I were on the road again the 686 is much easier to maintain and And is also quite beautiful.
 
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Mike, those are Underwood Xtreme Hunter 120gr ( it's a Lehigh Defense Bullet)
They also make Xtreme Defenders - which is what I usually carry - They just didn't have any Xtreme Defenders for. 357 mag
I love the old Winchester Silvertips. Aside from being a great round it has the added advantage of convincing my grandson that I hunt werewolves...
 
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Here is my pride and joy. The base gun was a S&W PC 627. I sent it to Alex Hamilton and had it completely rebuilt.
Magna Port Quad Porting
1978 Hwy Patrolman Barrel
All the internals were replaced with TK Custom parts
Dovetailed to accept 1911 front sights
Lock open cylinder
New chamfers
Proper throats
Straightened Ejector
All the sharp edges were beveled
KG Gunkote over the stainless
Best trigger I have ever felt on a DA gun of any make. Just over 5# in DA, the SA is supernatural.
D&L Sports Combat Rear Sight

20220921_103107.jpg
 
Really
Here is my pride and joy. The base gun was a S&W PC 627. I sent it to Alex Hamilton and had it completely rebuilt.
Magna Port Quad Porting
1978 Hwy Patrolman Barrel
All the internals were replaced with TK Custom parts
Dovetailed to accept 1911 front sights
Lock open cylinder
New chamfers
Proper throats
Straightened Ejector
All the sharp edges were beveled
KG Gunkote over the stainless
Best trigger I have ever felt on a DA gun of any make. Just over 5# in DA, the SA is supernatural.
D&L Sports Combat Rear Sight

View attachment 8133325
what are the grips made of? That’s a beautiful piece man.
 
About the hardest wood in the world.
Didn’t know that. If you look at my custom colt elsewhere in this thread those grips are African cherry wood I am told. They’re beautiful but I don’t think harder than any other but the grip was carved from a molding of my hand. Robert Finegan of Clayton NC did the trigger and innerds as well as the hammer bob. This is an awesome thread
 
Used for fence post here. Last longer than steel. 200 years in the ground. Does not rot. Top part just weathers away from wind erosion. Bottom part is still intact.
 
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I once saw a scale of wood hardness. A few were higher but not many. Ironwood was one iirc.
 
It was a shame his wife's cancer drove him into Bankruptcy. He made a good product a good price
You know even at that if he recovered from her death I believe he could have gotten some investors and started over. The whole thing is pretty tragic. Such a craftsman.
 
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