Need a new sleeping bag for 2023 Idaho hunt

More info needed. Will you packing in to camp? What kind of shelter? Moisture level anticipated? Lots of variables to consider.

I’m a down fan but you will be hard pressed to stay in your budget. Synthetic is likely your only option, but does have benefits in damp conditions.

Everyone has different comfort experiences regarding temp ratings. Manufacturers generally underrate/overstate bag ratings. I would likely get a bag rated to a lower temp than expected, you can always unzip and vent if you are too warm. My .02

Go with a double or even a triple bag system. In fact, you might be able to utilize your current bag, add a liner and an overbag. I like to have a goretex outer cover. You can adjust the system to fit your needs even in the middle of the night. The use of more than one bag pretty much completely eliminates cold spots.

You can find new, unused milsurp 3 bag systems made by Wiggy's in your budget. I have used them very comfortably to -10F with only a tarp over. Slumberjack makes an overbag.

Maybe more important than the actual bag is the layer of insulation you use against the ground.

Where in Idaho? What time of year? LOTS more info needed.

Adamc55 said:

and around $200

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Man, limited options there. I will be the guy who comes in and mentions something completely out of that budget that you probably won't get anyways. A little background...I backcountry hunt quite a bit and have about 5 different "sleeping systems". All of them were the budget minded kind and consist of various sleeping bags from Mountain Hardwear, Cabelas, Big Agnes, etc etc. I generally got used to not sleeping while I hunted.

Then I just said fuck it and bought a Western Mountaineering bag and life changed. After the obligatory first night jitters when you think you might get eaten by a grizzly bear, I have never slept so good in a tent. When you sleep well it keeps you so much more motivated to stay and tough it out when conditions aren't great. 10 days is a long hunt. After buying that bag I would rather spend 300 bucks on a WalMart gun and scope and 800 on a good sleeping bag....

Since you will have a car(truck) camp, with your budget I think that is where you might spend the majority of your nights. You can pack enough layers, blankets etc. to maintain warmth without having to carry all that bulk and weight. I think I would pick up a sheet of rigid foam insulation to use as a base in that situation. Flat with outstanding R value.

I have spent many a night tenting on snow. Good insulation between you and the ground is very helpful regardless of bag efficiency, due to compression of the insulation. Through a bit of trial and error, I have settled on an lightweight inflatable mattress that rests right at your bag budget. I agree with @shields shtr regarding spending more for comfort but understand that it’s not always possible. I certainly hope that you enjoy your hunt and your memories won’t center on sleepless cold nights. Please post some pictures when you get back! Cheers

You may be able to rent a bag from a local REI.

Thats a lotta cash unless you hunt a lot in places with no heater.

-15 seems pretty crazy.

I sleep in a 10F down bag and vary my clothes and cap, as well as over-bag, based on real temps.
In a 4 season tent with a good R value pad (look at the Thermarest one)
Even to 0 or a tad below I dont need an overbag.
Im not a big guy, run a tad warm most of the time.


I will say, if you spend a lotta time outside, a good bag and pad make or break the rest time for me.
Easy of pad use and being comfy and warm is good.
And prior to being a dad, I spent all my time outside.

I have a marmot never summer 0 degree that I like quite a bit. I think they make a 10 or 15 degree one as well. I used the never summer backpack hunting a couple times. Keep an eye on camofire, they sometimes have sleeping bags. If I’m not backpacking, I use a military ecwcs bag system. Make sure your pad has a pretty good R value too. That part of Idaho was warm this year around that time, but early November it got real cold. With a less insulated bag, you can always put a liner in it or wear your insulated clothing in it to up the rating

when I first got into the scouts and I asked my father about a sleeping bag his bright idea was two of these


said just to just curl up and it's the same thing , no it not the same thing lol

Adamc55 said:

I just realized that I put that stupid squiggly line in front of the 15° and everyone must have thought I meant -15. I meant around 15°

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Ha!!
Never before have I done something and figured others would get it.

Thats easier.
Shop sales.
Look into a rental program at REI if you dont think you will use the system much after the hunt.


Train hard.
Mtn hunting kicks yer ass.

Adamc55 said:

Thoughts on these?-

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I have the Nemo disco. The "thermal gills" are awesome for letting heat escape...which on cold hunts isn't that great. I have never thought about renting a bag...but the thought of who else has slept in that thing before me would be a deal breaker.

I used to buy bag with one rating "higher" than what I thought I would be sleeping in. So, if it was gonna be 15 at night, I would buy a zero degree bag. Even then I would get cold. The WM is the first bag I have owned where I honestly think it would keep me warm in 0 degrees or below and it is a 0 degree bag.

Another thing I noticed that is likely more personal for me than most folks. I am claustrophobic and have to have my head out of the bag when I sleep. The warmer bags create more heat around you where you get a little warmer "air pocket" around your head. Makes for a less cold nose. That is just me though.

For truck camping, no big deal. But when you pack everything on your back and you spend a few nights shivering your ass off with no way to get warm it just sucks the fun out of the deal. I am strictly talking cold nights here...10 degrees or lower.

All sorts of tips out there, here is one for cold weather backpack hunting. Aside from cold sleeping...cold and frozen boots can also be an issue. I carry two nalgenes and small water bladder with me on back pack hunts. Boil some water before you go to bed and stick the Nalgenes or bladder with the hot water in your boots before you crawl into your bag. Nothing sucks worse than putting on completely frozen boots in the AM.

REI has some good options for around $300

Also worth looking at the used stuff on REI here.

My wife picked up a nemo riff that looks like new less a pin hole that can be gear taped for half the cost of new. Also remember the cold comes from the ground. A peice of reflectix under your sleep mat will go a long ways.

You may see that I live in Oklahoma. That is very new. I grew up in Idaho and spent much of my adult life there.
Be advised regarding brown bears there. (EDIT: in that part of Idaho, not far from Jellystone and Island Park) Practice good bear discipline when camping and while hunting. Also cats but they tend to be even more man shy.
Definitely a chance to have snow but it just as likely to be in the 60's and 70's. That is also the time of year when it might rain every day for 2 weeks...that can turn to snow. Take good rain gear. Take good summer gear. Take good cool weather gear. Take good cold weather gear.
No matter what you decide to do, be sure to insulate yourself from the ground.
When I am doing the trips away from my base camp (usually 2 nights out is my plan, come back to get cleaned up, eat a better meal, sleep on a softer mattress, go back out) I use a down bag inside of a goretex bivvy. I have an ultralight air mattress that is also insulated. I take a contractor grade trash bag, useful in lots of ways, to put my boots in when I sleep and I use them as a sort of pillow fairly often. I take spare socks and put on a fresh pair at bedtime and use my body heat to dry the other pair as I sleep.
All that being said, I have frozen my ass off at times, shivering through the night!! HAHA!! Camp fires are often not permitted.
One of the keys to being warm is staying dry. Stay dry.
Another key to staying warm is to stay well fed and hydrated.
EDIT: It's been about 5 years since I hunted this way and in that time I have let my self gain a little weight. I would have to get myself in some much better shape to hunt that way.

I generally try to avoid Amazon so don't take this as an advertisement for this link but just to show you what you can get and these will keep you warm. I wouldn't want to carry one very far.

Buy used on Rokslide and get a much better bag than your budget will support new.

I have a few Big Agnes bags that I’ve used in wildly varying conditions. From car camping to multi-day backpacking. The only thing is, they’re designed with no insulation on the bottom. They have a sleeve that holds a small air mat, so that adds some extra cost. I recommend an insulated mat, it makes a huge difference

BridgerMT said:

I bought a expensive bag over 25 years ago and still use it ,
Was a -40 bag and paid over $400.00 back then...
Buy a good bag once... buy cheap ones every year forever..
I will add the Grizzlies think they all taste the same up here LOL

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I imagine the synthetic fill bags make us taste like a sugar free candy with some gross artificial sweetener

Adamc55 said:

I'll try and answer everything you mentioned. We are going to unit 59a in Idaho starting October 9th. We'll be there for about 10 days. Camp elevation ranges from around 2000-4000ft from what I can tell. Shelter and camping may vary. We are planning on possibly running 2 different camp types. Maybe a smaller lighter backpacking tent for remote camp, and a larger sturdier tent for near truck camping. I would rather get a hot tent and small stove and use it for both but it depends on what my hunting partner thinks. My sleeping pad is a Klymit static V. I'll use a tarp below it or a footprint for a tent with a bottom. Some have said snow is a possibility that time of year, but it could also be 60° for all I know. I'm regularly cold at camp and I hate being cold. Even in my 10° bag I was cold with nights being about 30° last I used it. The 2 bags I have now is a Marmot Aspen minimalist 40° and an Ozark trail 10° that I bought in a hurry the last time I went. The Ozark trail weighs almost 6lbs so it's heavy as ever, the marmot is light but freezing cold unless it's like 60° at night.

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So I live up here.
Where you are planning on hunting Temps can range from the 80s or 90s all the way down to minus Temps during the season.

I am a guy who can't handle cold well. Too many times being hypothermic.

The ultimate setup is to take your current bag, and then get a Jervenbag extreme to go with it. Buy a sheepskin for 40 dollars off of etsy.

Put your current sleeping bag into the jervenbag, your pad in the jervenbag under your sleeping bag, and put the sheepskin in the sleeping bag under and around your feet.

You will be fantastically warm.

This will cost a bit over your budget, but not too much. It is stupidly warm and can be layered according to Temps.


The beauty of the jerven is that it is a waterproof insulated sack that also acts as a sleeping bag. It has enough room to pull your critical gear inside with you too. It can be used as a insulated, one man bag blind as well for sitting and glassing.

shields shtr said:

Man, limited options there. I will be the guy who comes in and mentions something completely out of that budget that you probably won't get anyways. A little background...I backcountry hunt quite a bit and have about 5 different "sleeping systems". All of them were the budget minded kind and consist of various sleeping bags from Mountain Hardwear, Cabelas, Big Agnes, etc etc. I generally got used to not sleeping while I hunted.

Then I just said fuck it and bought a Western Mountaineering bag and life changed. After the obligatory first night jitters when you think you might get eaten by a grizzly bear, I have never slept so good in a tent. When you sleep well it keeps you so much more motivated to stay and tough it out when conditions aren't great. 10 days is a long hunt. After buying that bag I would rather spend 300 bucks on a WalMart gun and scope and 800 on a good sleeping bag....

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Western Mountaineering is THE truth when it comes to sleeping bags.

First, indeed glad you aren't trying to go on a budget to minus-15° F

Sounds like you are doing what I pack for: hope for heated tents, bring enough for cold camping. I have been to slightly minus zero in a good cold camp tent (tent+fly, NOT a one layer tipi! That trip literally almost killed me) with just: layers.

Double up on what lots of folks said: add more stuff over getting a super-duper cold wx bag. Add:

• A bivy sack. Shell outside will add a lot, and not just for warmth directly as a layer but wind and moisture so keeps the bag more effective. Even a heated tent can have breezes if not set and sealed right, the ground can be wet, etc. Bivy helps.
• More ground insulation. Below about freezing I put folding foam mat down below my whole rig, which normally is just an inflatable (REI, but think Therm-a-Rest). Surplus USGI foam mats are cheap, I'd get the Z-fold one as it packs small, etc. The gold standard to me is the German folding mat if you can find one though.
• Liner. Thin, often slightly stretchy layer. Also keeps the bag from getting dirty or wet from you, so works better on longer term trips as both those kill the effectiveness of the insulating layer.
• Clothes. I have a separate compartment in my clothing bag of sleep-only clothes. A loose fleece sleep shirt, a watch cap, waffle pants.
• Camp booties. Feet are far from the core when sleeping, so get cold. I have gone all the way to having (when cold) dedicated in-bag camp booties. Don't walk around in these, and get the bag dirty. I sleep real well with these, can go down a lot colder with warm feet because that makes warm legs, etc.

Each layer adds a few degrees. a 20° bag with all the above will be hot at 20°, get you down to 0° easily. Etc. Some depends how cold you sleep also, of course.

Also try it out and fix issues. I can't sleep head inside (which is good to keep moisture down anyway) so can have a gap between my face/neck and the bag. I seal that with a "scarf." I wrap my puffy coat around my neck at night, serves as a sort of pillow, a place for my hands to keep warm when they do their own thing in the night, and keeps down system leaks. But generally: practice and find what else you need that you may already have, and utilize it.

I'll also say: don't necessarily fear down. I did for decades, but of late they are doing clever things with baffling, better bag materials, and even down coatings, so the issues of compressing, shifting, and becoming ineffective due to moisture are rapidly disappearing vs synthetics.

My tangential solution to the original question is: quilt instead of bag. See, you get no value from the part of a bag you lay on so why carry it around? Quilts are not quite what they say they are, most have zipped up toe boxes, and straps to tie to the foam pad so: it is like climbing into a sleeping bag, and rolling around won't let the quilt fall off you. I move a lot, sleep on the side, had a quilt setup for about 4 years now. Slept it comfortably in, among other places, Iceland.

Example only (I do not have this one) of a totally legit brand (Sierra Designs) quilt rated to 20°F for under $200

For that price range an issued/surplus 3 PCS type is going to be the best/cheapest option with a real rating. Most your the civilian bag ratings are junk.



I’ve spent several nights outside in - temps up to -20 and been “comfortable”
3 years in ALaska makes you appreciate your equipment a lot more.

Adamc55 said:

I'm really hoping the grizzly population where we're going is low, but we're only 25miles away from the mapped "grizzly distribution area". View attachment 8054235

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You are going to be in PRIME brown bear country. Act like it.

Honestly, I wouldn't trust many 15-degree bags that come under 200 bucks. If you can wiggle it id do Enlighted Equipment Quilt. Very warm, lightweight.

Since it's been suggested several times: I am not as excited about surplus MSS as many people are. It's slightly old tech now, so pretty heavy and bulky by the time you get the full system up and running, and:

Surplus

Used, unknown care levels, cold wx stuff may or may not work to anything like the original rating. I'd only /think/ about getting one if I could find it in good condition, locally, and they let me pull it out and inspect it. Even so: visual/tactile inspection is only so good. Meh.

shoobe01 said:

Since it's been suggested several times: I am not as excited about surplus MSS as many people are. It's slightly old tech now, so pretty heavy and bulky by the time you get the full system up and running, and:

Surplus

Used, unknown care levels, cold wx stuff may or may not work to anything like the original rating. I'd only /think/ about getting one if I could find it in good condition, locally, and they let me pull it out and inspect it. Even so: visual/tactile inspection is only so good. Meh.

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I totally understand that.

I have my original BDU(woodland) pattern one that I paid for from CIF after misplacing during a PCS probably 15 years ago.

Used on deployments and countless days in the field.

The newer UCP ones are much lighter.

In my opinion. (18 years of active duty infantry service). If it doesn’t have any holes in it, it is GTG.

I only suggested it as the price cap of 200 is going to leave wanting in the sleeping bag world , irregardless of the advertised comfort rating on the tag.

Surviving and being comfortable are not the same thing

Don’t forget to use a slab of bacon for a pillow.,

Enigmo said:

Marmot Helium 15 degree bag down to 15 and sleep comfortably without base layers. With a Woobie I can take it down to 0. If you have a sewing machine you can easily make a homemade version of the Kifaru Woobie for pretty cheap. That, combined with a 15 degree bag, will cover almost everything. I could never handle a 0 degree bag. Just too warm 90% of the time. But, I sleep fairly warm. My biggest issue with the 15 degree bag is that I sweat too much.

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Western Mountaineering bags are temperature-adjustable.

The beauty of Western Mountaineering bags, aside from USA Made, best zippers, Tier-1 quality, and best resale value, is the loft-adjustable baffles. They run side to side and each baffle is continuous from front to back of the bag.

To adjust warmth you just move the down to the top or bottom side of the bag by sliding your hand over the baffle. Since they are horizontal, you can tune it by zone from your toes to your head.

Down that is moved to the bottom (beneath you) is compressed, so it does not make you hot, as it has almost no insulation value. You can move 90%-95% of the down to the top side in really cold conditions, or move it to the bottom to dramatically reduce the heat rating in hot conditions.

Enlightened equipment quilt. Get a good Pad it’s almost as important as the bag.

Mike Islander said:

Buy used on Rokslide and get a much better bag than your budget will support new.

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Yep ...

And three options worth looking at:
Kifaru Slickbag
Stone Glacier
Zenbivy

Three different materials and construction types ... but all good.

If you are close to the truck you will not beat a wiggys bag at that price range. Super warm but very heavy and bulky. Not a good option for packing in. I love mine. I have 2in fact. I just can't stand the owner

I would also recommend getting a thermarest pad. Lots of reviews say you will get cold with your klymit pad

Eta. After reading some other comments again. Getting a warmer rated bag and using a liner and the appropriate layers is a great idea. My zero degree wiggys bag will sweat you out at 30deg

Check with Mark - Enough Said - on SH-he sells Wiggy's bags

@Enough Said would be the guy to give you solid recommendations on cold weather bags for your hunt.

Just my .02 from having slept in the cold (interior Alaska for work and solo hunted the north slope of Alaska in the winter(best time to go imo)). Synthetic bags will help keep you warmer if wet (I used my work supplied one which are a three piece). I do not recommend an air mattress, foam will better insulate you from the ground.

I might suggest a Seek Outside tent with stove. https://seekoutside.com/hot-tent-combos/

Travel light, freeze at night.

HOOFER said:

For that price range an issued/surplus 3 PCS type is going to be the best/cheapest option with a real rating. Most your the civilian bag ratings are junk.

U.S. Issue ACU Modular Sleeping Bag System

The U.S. Military Modular Sleep System contains a ACU Digital Camo waterproof breathable bivy, patrol sleeping bag, intermediate sleeping bag and a compression stuff sack. If you are looking for one military sleeping bag to do it all.

armynavyoutdoors.com

I’ve spent several nights outside in - temps up to -20 and been “comfortable”
3 years in ALaska makes you appreciate your equipment a lot more.

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Wainwright for me.

stefan73 said:

Wainwright for me.

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Same for me.

Shungnak for me.

HOOFER said:

Same for me.

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The ACU ones seem to compress more but the woodland, or is it just me?

stefan73 said:

The ACU ones seem to compress more but the woodland, or is it just me?

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Yeah I think it’s less bulky. And definatley weighs less.