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Coup De Grâce, New Action from American Rifle Company, $899 WOW!

I can’t imagine the amount of people asking for that would even remotely compare to the amount of people that would love the amazing ingenuity of bad assness that comes from arc being put into a 22lr action. Ted you should put your efforts there please. Just saying 😜
I like 22s

Ted
 
Pressures attainable by careless handloading but that's just part of the story. The tests were conducted to evaluate various combinations of material, heat treatment, and surface finishing.

Ted
Did the extractor stay in the bolt head??
Can’t tell from pics.
 
Does that mean that technically you could use a AW mag in a Xylo as a “barricade stop” ?
 
Nope. Not too worried about that considering what happened to the receiver. I don't think there's a reason to add "recyclable" to the problem statement for designing bombs.

Ted
Yeah when the receiver come completely apart all bets are off.
That extractor looks like it would stay put in a typical case head separation though so I was curious.
 
What about hawkins bdl style bottom metal.
Might work. The rifle in the Vudoo both at Shot Show had a short action CDG with Hawkins bottom metal. Some material removal was necessary near the back end of the mag box because of an interference with the trigger hangers. We just need to make Andy aware of this and he'll have to decide whether or not to make the modification to his products. Mod is simple enough but may have implications for Andy that I am unaware of.

Ted
 
If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't want to offer non-standard options to the masses either.

Too many people think that it's perfectly safe to go beyond the 62ksi loads in their Manbun.
The discussion about acceptable pressure vs excessive pressure happens monthly around here and some people just don't get it.

I've had the privilege to manufacture ammunition as a job. Along with that, I used pressure test barrels daily. If the average handloader could see just how quickly pressure builds and how quickly it goes from average safe loads, into proof loads, it would scare the shit out of them.

To get them to understand the amount of pressure needed to destroy an action would take a miracle.




For discussion purposes, and to educate those that aren't aware, most of the dual port actions are built to fire the 22 or 6mm PPC and the occasional 6mm or 30 BR cartridge.

Most of the shooters using the PPC are very meticulous. They use mostly N-133 for the PPC and to have a different powder around would be blasphemy.

The 30 BR shooters have mostly H-4198 or LT-30.
I've only ever seen a handful of BR shooters that had more than one powder around at a time.



Average Jo-Bob probably loads at home instead and has 20 different powders on his shelf. It's pretty easy to grab the wrong type if he's distracted or inebriated.

As a manufacturer, you can't control Jo-Bob or his buddies while they are trying to squeeze every single foot per second out of that Manbun or the PRC.

Come on man, it's only a little difficult to lift the bolt. And, and, and, the primer isn't completely flat yet...🙄🙄 😬😬😬

It's just not worth it to offer the custom ports to Jo-Bob and Billy-Rae.

@karagias I'm gonna PM you.
Based on Teds primer, He isn’t pushing the loads too bad. Certainly has more room to go before reaching pressure. 🤣

5487525F-8FE9-4D97-804B-D7C45F745A85.jpeg
 
Based on Teds primer, He isn’t pushing the loads too bad. Certainly has more room to go before reaching pressure. 🤣

View attachment 8056800
That cases was intentionally cut to ensure that the case would not contain pressure. Our aim was to pressurize the receiver in order to see if it would blow apart. We're testing the mechanical properties of the receiver during these tests, its metallurgy essentially.

Ted
 
Any idea how this would work with the krg bravo?
Not sure. The KRG Bravo video reveals a screw immediately behind the mag well which may interfere with the trigger hanger. If it does, an easy mod might be able to make it fit. Need to get one in here.

I hope it works. That would make for a great build at a phenomenal price.

Ted
 
No flutes, or at most very little ones.
All the big flutes do is allow dirt and stuff into your magazine.
 
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I know the Mac Brothers action uses a hanger and I've seen many file relief cuts for the hanger no problem
 
Glad someone asked this. That's the platform I intend to use with my next build
I had an impact in a bravo for a minute, you have to cut down the trigger guard bolt a bit for clearance, you can still get a bit in there to remove or install, but it needs taken down a bit. As to the Hawkins bottom metal, Andy offers a longer mag latch which is customizable for mag height. It'll take an aw mag no issues. Thats how lone peaks have been ran for some time.
 
That cases was intentionally cut to ensure that the case would not contain pressure. Our aim was to pressurize the receiver in order to see if it would blow apart. We're testing the mechanical properties of the receiver during these tests, its metallurgy essentially.

Ted
Interesting.

Fairly often for work I am required to have a tensile test bar made to send to a lab, verifying the actual mechanical properties of the material meets the required specs.

It is something else to see the design tested this way and a get a glimpse into that world.
 
Interesting.

Fairly often for work I am required to have a tensile test bar made to send to a lab, verifying the actual mechanical properties of the material meets the required specs.

It is something else to see the design tested this way and a get a glimpse into that world.
Test coupons are one thing. Actual test articles are another and absolutely essential.

Ted
 
I’d be curious to see how to CDG compares with the “varget in a 338lm” test that PR did on the DTA SRS. I know the Nuke was unbelievably strong.
 
Pressures attainable by careless handloading but that's just part of the story. The tests were conducted to evaluate various combinations of material, heat treatment, and surface finishing.

Ted
Will the Sig .277 Fury rounds (the 80,000 psi high pressure ones with the steel case heads) be safe in the CDG or Archimedes?
 
Might work. The rifle in the Vudoo both at Shot Show had a short action CDG with Hawkins bottom metal. Some material removal was necessary near the back end of the mag box because of an interference with the trigger hangers. We just need to make Andy aware of this and he'll have to decide whether or not to make the modification to his products. Mod is simple enough but may have implications for Andy that I am unaware of.

Ted
Thanks for the quick reply . I'll likely be buying a long action , not sure of that changes anything .
 
If you're using this for a magnum in a short action, say a 6.5 PRC(thinking about having a separate barrel for NRL Hunter for this action), I'd be using only AICS mags I'm guessing? So i'd have to make sure I made the proper mods for my mag catch?
 
Not sure. The KRG Bravo video reveals a screw immediately behind the mag well which may interfere with the trigger hanger. If it does, an easy mod might be able to make it fit. Need to get one in here.

I hope it works. That would make for a great build at a phenomenal price.

Ted
All chassis by krg other than the C4 require modification for hangers. Like Ted said it's not a hard modification.
 
Alright fellas, point and laugh if you must, I'm likely earning with this:
Do you still get CRF w AW mags? I can't picture how that would work.
 
Alright fellas, point and laugh if you must, I'm likely earning with this:
Do you still get CRF w AW mags? I can't picture how that would work.
I was wondering same thing.. Read the description again, and sure enough there it was:
1674686657669.jpeg

Maybe an industry first(?)
 

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Over the years, many people have asked us for this. I've been reluctant to do it because I don't want my customers blowing their faces off in the event that they drank to much whisky while handloading and carelessly dumped a bunch of Varget into a 300 WM or 338 LM.

We blow actions up during obstructed chamber tests to ensure they stay together after people make mistakes. The ensuing blasts are terrifying and if your head is in close proximity to fragmenting receiver, well it's like the YouTube video says, "It was at this moment that Jackson knew, he fucked up!"

Thus left-port right-handle worries me. I'd need to talk this over with a good attorney before offering such a thing for sale. Same goes for aluminum receivers and switch-barrels with split receivers, with the notable exception of Accuracy International. Those guys smartly do obstructed chamber tests. Aluminum receivers are obviously used in millions of AR-15s but the majority of those guns shoot a tiny 223. Bolt actions are different. They're often used with big cartridges that release enormous amounts energy.

I normally don't do this but I decided to attached three pictures of actions blown apart while testing materials, heat treatment, and finishing. Take this seriously. Handloading mistakes can result in serious injury or death to you and to bystanders. We work hard to make these as safe as possible and to safeguard against carless errors made by shooters but there are limits to what we can do.

Enjoy the pics and be careful. Don't be like Jackson.

Ted

View attachment 8056419View attachment 8056420View attachment 8056421
i have done that once ... learnt a few valuable lessons :) glad it was a cheap action when i did it (wasnt a ARC)
 
@karagias Does the CDG require AW mags, or will AX mags also work?
AIAW and AICS or equivalent mags will work. The AX mag will not work because of a lug that protrudes from its forward face. You can see the difference in the attached pictures.

Ted
 

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Will the Sig .277 Fury rounds (the 80,000 psi high pressure ones with the steel case heads) be safe in the CDG or Archimedes?
I think the better way to get an answer on this is to ask Ted how significant the design challenges would be to make a "high pressure" action and how expensive the new action would have to be to make the financials work.

I am very interested in an action capable of running the .277 fury as well as the idea of the extra safety that a "high pressure" action would provide.
 
I think the better way to get an answer on this is to ask Ted how significant the design challenges would be to make a "high pressure" action and how expensive the new action would have to be to make the financials work.

I am very interested in an action capable of running the .277 fury as well as the idea of the extra safety that a "high pressure" action would provide.
I'm interested in a 277 fury necked to 65 or 6mm lol 140 game changers at prc speed from a 473 case head sounds fun.
 
It would be interesting to see how much of that 80k psi is held my the steel case head and barrel, versus how much is head by the action and bolt face.
 
@karagias, I'm surprised no one asked, or maybe I missed it. I would really want to know the reasons that made you go with a fat bolt. As it's kind of unexpected, it would be interesting to know.
 
Here:
Post #115 on page 3 discusses this a bit as do several various references in his posts on pages 1-3. I suggest that you try and at least skim through Ted’s posts in this thread, as they are the direct word and offer a wealth of solid answers.

Also, like @Sharpline said above, there are many here who are not very comfortable with R700 diameter bolts being used for fat magnum cartridges. More meat, more better.
 
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Here:
Post #115 on page 3 discusses this a bit as do several various references in his posts on pages 1-3. I suggest that you try and at least skim through Ted’s posts in this thread, as they are the direct word and offer a wealth of solid answers.

Also, like @Sharpline said above, there are many here who are not very comfortable with R700 diameter bolts being used for fat magnum cartridges. More meat, more better.
I did skim through Ted's posts but didn't remember that the "why" was discussed. I'll do my homework and go over it again. Thanks
 
@karagias, I'm surprised no one asked, or maybe I missed it. I would really want to know the reasons that made you go with a fat bolt. As it's kind of unexpected, it would be interesting to know.
Not sure if it was mentioned somewhere in the thread or not, but the big bolt also makes it possible to covert between a fixed handle and a pivot handle. Creates enough room for the pivot sleeve + extra spring in the bolt body. Bolt size likely contributes to solving the Archimedes bolt disassembly frustration.

I still Love the Archimedes! The extra effort required to disassemble is worth it to me. Hate to see it get discontinued. Might change my mind after running the CDG.
 
most common reason for a big bolt, its cheaper to MFG.

its a deep hole no EDM for raceways, which is a separate process and piece of equipment
 
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most common reason for a big bolt, its cheaper to MFG.

its a deep hole no EDM for raceways, which is a separate process and piece of equipment
Uh, no. It's never that simple. Literally millions of actions using bolt lug channels were made before the advent of wire EDM. Broaching is still highly productive and effective. One need only to look at Tikka or Savage to know that lug channels can be produced at very low cost in high volume production.

Now I certainly subscribe to "The best part is not part" and "The best process is no process" but wire EDMs are really effective at doing something that nothing else can. And they're cheap. Nowadays, a wire machine can be had for about $200K, and in the machine tool world, that's almost free. A spool of wire costs about $220 and can cut at least 20 receivers. You do the math.

I chose a fat bolt for two reasons. First, AW mag optimization. Secondly, I had never done one before. And as always, there are pros and cons to all of the bolt action solutions.

So what's the difference in the cost to produce a receiver with and without lug channels? Those of you who know me can probably guess the answer. It depends.

Ted