In the video he said he basically uses hoppes to store a barrel then will wet patch and dry patch it out before use with the same
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A guy shared it with me after showing him the video you guys did. Then he ripped on the “new”manuals for not being as thorough and needing cartoons to keep attention… https://www.military.com/history/original-m16-manual-was-vietnam-war-comic-book.html. As to him the Vietnam era was new… lol
I agree if it’s gonna sit, clean it.
I just received PVA's Muzzle Jimmy and The Plug. A friend of mine has been plugging his breech with a silicon plug and filling the barrel bore with BoreTech carbon remover (and, it really doesn't take that much solvent to fill the bore) and letting it soak.
The PVA stuff just makes this a bit more rugged/reliable.
I personally think this is the way to go (well..."think" as I haven't done it yet) compared to working your bore over with abrassives. But, I have used 40X the way Frank has suggested...an oversized patch wrapped around a Parker Hale style jag with something to block then muzzle so jag doesn't extend out of the bore (I used a round metal plug in a thread protector) so you can scrub back and forth a bit.
patriotvalleyarms.com
The PVA stuff just makes this a bit more rugged/reliable.
I personally think this is the way to go (well..."think" as I haven't done it yet) compared to working your bore over with abrassives. But, I have used 40X the way Frank has suggested...an oversized patch wrapped around a Parker Hale style jag with something to block then muzzle so jag doesn't extend out of the bore (I used a round metal plug in a thread protector) so you can scrub back and forth a bit.
Cleaning Accessories - Patriot Valley Arms
patriotvalleyarms.com Wondering what happened here. Never seen this with any of my barrels. Its a 6 creed, 400bb barrel. I always clean with bore tech and cant get a dirty patch with carbon or copper cleaner. Anyone seen this before? barrel still shoots just fine and only have about 600 rounds on it. 
I just received PVA's Muzzle Jimmy and The Plug. A friend of mine has been plugging his breech with a silicon plug and filling the barrel bore with BoreTech carbon remover (and, it really doesn't take that much solvent to fill the bore) and letting it soak.
The PVA stuff just makes this a bit more rugged/reliable.
I personally think this is the way to go (well..."think" as I haven't done it yet) compared to working your bore over with abrassives. But, I have used 40X the way Frank has suggested...an oversized patch wrapped around a Parker Hale style jag with something to block then muzzle so jag doesn't extend out of the bore (I used a round metal plug in a thread protector) so you can scrub back and forth a bit.
Cleaning Accessories - Patriot Valley Arms
I've said it already I know , and I like the plug too, I have a possum hollow one. Still, the caliber specific nylon brush with the Foaming gel bore scrubber going back and forth is a whole new ball game from anything I've ever tried, including soaking the barrel in clr for an hour. ( I would just never leave that stuff in my barrel over night personally). I've never had the kind of success cleaning like I now have with that nylon brush and 10 strokes back and forth with a nylon brush with no abrasive isn't going to hurt any barrel even a little bit. Hopefully, I will just be able to keep it cleaner from now on and won't need that level of cleaning again but man it sure is nice to be able to if you need it. I'd try that out if you have a barrel that is harder to clean
Uh....refresh my memory, please. Exactly what foaming gel are you using with such success. Brand?
Thanks
Birchwood Casey " Bore scrubber"
This is it. I've used it before by itself without any remarkable success. I let it sit for a bit and put a good amount in there but did it in doses vs all at once, so it woul run down the barrel more. I let it sit for 15 ish min then did about 10 or 15 back and forth strokes with a nylon brush and then patched it out , then a few wet patches of hoppes , then a few dry, to make sure I got it all out of there, before a light oil patch to finish.
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Ah, I've used that for years and years on shotgun barrels. Not the gel but the aerosol and even better I had some bulk liquid in pump spray bottle I would just shoot down there (and zero idea WTF I got it as a liquid as they sell a 5 oz bottle for $8 and I had like a quart of it???).
It always struck me as being some sort of penetrating oil type substance and on shotgun barrels it worked as wetting agent to keep stuff I scraped up with a brush in suspension so I could patch it out.
Perhaps its formulated differently now....certainly the gel must be.
Still have some on the shelf. Might have to give it a try on rifle barrels.
Thanks
Yeah the foaming gel seems to work better but I think they make a similar product that looks almost the same as the bore scrubber. I think ghe nylon brush and it being gel had a bigger impact than the actual cleaning agent or whatever
Yeah they make "gun scrubber" too but bore scrubber is what this is
All this arguing over how to clean a rifle and I don't see any body talking about the most important thing. Certain powders foul worse than others. That will dictate your cleaning process. I shoot PRS so 1 day match roughly 115 rounds. If I'm running H4350 I can use bore tech elimnator and a nylon brush and with very little work get that barrel clean. Not bare metal clean but get the bulk of it and im happy. When I run staball, that's a different storie. That powder is so dirty and leaves alot of hard carbon. I shot a 2 day match and didn't clean after the first day and I had a carbon ring that started to scrap copper off the bullets. For me the only way to get it out of the bore was isso. Why do I use staball? Because I can find it regularly and not get raped when I buy it. Get a bore scope so you can see what you got when the barrel is new, what you got after you shoot it so you know how much to clean and then to check progress instead of relying on a patch to come out clean.
I've found that using "Lock Ease" aka "Collodial graphite" as a last layer after cleaning reduces copper fouling and helps with the clean bore flyers. Whatever you do to clean your barrel, when it's clean, use 91% alcohol, or K&N oil filter cleaner/degreaser, Gun Scrubber, to get it howling dry. Then soak and run a couple patches in the graphite. The liquid carrier of the graphite will evaporate and leave the graphite in the bore. I'm seeing marked benefits.
No graphite use after 50rnd range sesion:
Next post range session pic with graphite used: Way less copper!
Now all I see is a slight copper hue in the bore that comes out with one application of Wipeout foam.
No graphite use after 50rnd range sesion:
Next post range session pic with graphite used: Way less copper!
Now all I see is a slight copper hue in the bore that comes out with one application of Wipeout foam.
I do the same. I use acetone to patch out what ever is left, run patchs till its dry. Wait for awhile for whatever is left to evaporate and then run 2 wet patchs of lock ease, working them back and forth. Followed by dry patchs to remove the liquid. Couple foulers and it's good to go. If I'm storing the gun for a few months then I use gun oil instead
Exactery!
I've seen that color come out on a patch when I let wipeout sit overnight. I don't know what it is. Exact same color in this pic too.
Remind me later. I only have limited access to the internet this week. Traveling for work. Typing on the IPad bites.
Looks like copper from bullets. The black is carbon. That’s fire cracking. What bullets, what’s the load? I’m curious.
can you clarify? haven't seen the rust or the crackng or ?
Thanks Frank. Load is a 109gr Berger and 40.2gr of H-4350 going 3049fps. I was a little surprised to see the fire cracking, barrel has 744 rounds on it. It was the brown/copper looking that I wasn't sure about. I have only cleaned with Bore tech products and light Nylon bore brush and patches just keep coming out clean and cant get any of this out.
Foam ear plugs are what I use as well.
A lot of that cracking will probably go away when you get the carbon out of the barrel. Hard to tell with just a few pics ect but it looks like that carbon fouling is what's cracked. I'm sure there will be some metal cracking though. Hard to believe you get that kind of speed with 40.2 gr of h4350 though, is that correct?
Muzzle Jimmy, or plug I used an AR15 gas tube to deliver the solvent into the bore. Worked like a charm.
A cautionary tale for those using the chamber plug.
I would advise that you do a leak test with the chamber plug if you plan on using nasty solvents that may hurt your action/coating.
I bought a .308 PVA chamber plug to deep clean my TacOps barrel with CLR. I put in the chamber plug and put CLR down the bore. I checked initially and didn't see any leaks. I let the CLR soak for about ~10-12 hours, and came back to see the bolt was wet and there was a very small puddle below the action. Took out the chamber plug and discovered it developed a slow leak, and the Birdsong finish of my action started to strip on the raceways, the underside of the bolt, and the bolt lugs. I have to now send the rifle off to TacOps to get completely re-done. Action, barrel and DBM all need to be re-done with Birdsong to ensure they match. A costly mistake that I now have to deal with.
In defense of @bohem/PVA, it does not state on their site that this product will work with CLR. I somehow made this assumption and didn't even think to check with PVA if this product would work with CLR. I don't know if my issue was a case of the plug not working properly, or if there's an incompatibility with chemicals such as CLR. I just made the assumption that it would seal the chamber and life would be good.
In hindsight I feel like a dumbass for even attempting this. I'm telling others this story so they don't make the same mistake. I'll give PVA the benefit of the doubt that this product works for other solvents. But don't assume if you are using anything that can cause any damage to your action and coating. Test first and/or contact PVA for chemical compatibility with the seal.
Thanks for sharing that. I learnt my lesson many years ago about using harsh chemical on my guns. I option for less aggressive chemicals that just take longer to action. One must be cautious of Wipeout foam/accelerator too. It will eat varnish, so I wouldn't want to let it sit on any finish. Just in case. I managed yesterday to use my muzzle jimmy successfully with Hoppes Black copper solvent. 3 hour sit and the Savage barrel was free of copper. I made a couple hundred rounds on the loading bench while waiting.
In your defense, i wouldnt hesitate to use CLR on a barrel using the Muzzle Jimmy. Probably wouldn't on the Plug unless it was off the action
That really sucks, I'm sorry to hear that.
We didn't try CLR, it's nasty stuff that eats aluminum and pits it so I don't typically use it outside of cleaning shower tiles. I never thought to put it out that the CLR isn't compatible with it because I don't consider it a gun cleaning agent due to it's tendency to eat things that the gun is made from. I strongly suggest taking the DBM out of the gun and washing everything out with soap and water, blow it out and lighter fluid the trigger. If it got in the DBM it likely got in the trigger and I don't know what pieces inside your trigger are aluminum or tool steel. CLR will eat tool steel given enough time too.
CLR works amazing to get stuff out of the barrel. You should've seen the stuff that came out of my TacOps barrel - it just came at a high cost to me
On all my other rifles I would take my barrel off if using CLR. On my TacOps I can't really do that, as the barrel is torqued to something like ~500 ft-lbs. In the future this rifle is only going to get solvents that aren't going to threaten the integrity of the action or coating. First and last time using CLR on this rifle.
CLR is nasty stuff. I should've used my head more before using it with the plug. Lesson learned. @bohem is going to inspect my plug and see what happened, and is taking care of me with a new plug. He's also going to put a note up on their page about not using CLR. You can all thank me and my dumbassery for preventing future mishaps
CLR works amazing to get stuff out of the barrel. You should've seen the stuff that came out of my TacOps barrel - it just came at a high cost to me
On all my other rifles I would take my barrel off if using CLR. On my TacOps I can't really do that, as the barrel is torqued to something like ~500 ft-lbs. In the future this rifle is only going to get solvents that aren't going to threaten the integrity of the action or coating. First and last time using CLR on this rifle.
CLR is nasty stuff. I should've used my head more before using it with the plug. Lesson learned. @bohem is going to inspect my plug and see what happened, and is taking care of me with a new plug. He's also going to put a note up on their page about not using CLR. You can all thank me and my dumbassery for preventing future mishaps
My guess will be the CLR ate the O ring or the aluminum Plug itself, letting the CLR seep by and into your action.
Everything looks intact - but it may not take much at all for it to leak. Josh is going to inspect my specific plug to see what happened.
Given how nasty CLR is, it wouldn't surprise me. I'm surprised that the plug and seal look essentially new though.
With something like clr and plugging, if I was to even to try it.... tacops would be the last rifle I'd experiment on.
Start with a savage next time!
Start with a savage next time!
CLR works amazing to get stuff out of the barrel. You should've seen the stuff that came out of my TacOps barrel - it just came at a high cost to me
On all my other rifles I would take my barrel off if using CLR. On my TacOps I can't really do that, as the barrel is torqued to something like ~500 ft-lbs. In the future this rifle is only going to get solvents that aren't going to threaten the integrity of the action or coating. First and last time using CLR on this rifle.
CLR is nasty stuff. I should've used my head more before using it with the plug. Lesson learned. @bohem is going to inspect my plug and see what happened, and is taking care of me with a new plug. He's also going to put a note up on their page about not using CLR. You can all thank me and my dumbassery for preventing future mishaps
No kidding
On the bright side my TacOps will get a new finish. It needed it anyways, it was getting pretty worn from use.
I am dead set on just using Krylon on degreased and warmed parts. If it gets scratched its a story. If I melt it with some chemicals, its a hazmat look...No kidding
On the bright side my TacOps will get a new finish. It needed it anyways, it was getting pretty worn from use.
It's a chamber plug, it's gonna leak every now and then. Use it with removed barrels to be safe. Better yet use the muzzle version, worse that comes out of that is a small puddle on the ground... not in your action.
Just an FYI, I've been looking at these from PVA and planning on ordering some.....
Just an FYI, I've been looking at these from PVA and planning on ordering some.....
No kidding
On the bright side my TacOps will get a new finish. It needed it anyways, it was getting pretty worn from use.
I would never again rely on a single point of failure to prevent a corrosive substance from reaching my action. I shouldn't have in the first place, that was definitely a lapse of judgement on my part.
I hope in sharing this tale, that this prevents others from doing so.
I’ve been waiting to get my hands on that Tac Ops of yours. Now that it is toast, you can send it to me 
Hoppes black copper solvent is what I use too. It removes all the copper. Be sure to wipe out and coat any thing that it touched with either the #3 black oil or standard # 9 bore solvent. This removes and “neutralizes” the #2.
if you do not clean the copper brush and rods with the #3 or #9 it will eat them too.
I bought two cans of Free ALL from NAPA. I don't think it's doing any better than breakfree CLP. I won't buy again.
Wipeout foam & accelerator combo. The foam is ok. The extra cost for the tube applicator pisses me off. Also pisses me off that Wipeout doesn't just include the accelerator in the foam and call it good.
Shooter's Choice foam is the best and has a nice tube dispenser built into can. It stays foamy much longer than any others and pulls more copper first application.
Hoppes #9 foam in tan can is a waste. Hoppes Black copper remover, if let set for a couple-few hours, gets all the stubborn copper deposits out.
Really, two applications of Shooters choice foam with alcohol flush between the two applications is probably all one needs. Alcohol treatment is nylon brush soaked in alcohol for 10-15 passes and flushing with alcohol patches, dry patching till the barrel howls. Copper deposits seem to form a resistance to the same solvent if not roughed up a bit. Weird I know, but its true and verified by others I've spoke to on the matter.
