Attrition has always been a Russian strategy, correct?
Pútín doesn't have to make gains right now. He simply has to do just enough to hold what he has and keep grinding it out... until Uke folds or to get people to the negotiation table.
Mike
- Thread starter billt
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Pútín doesn't have to make gains right now. He simply has to do just enough to hold what he has and keep grinding it out... until Uke folds or to get people to the negotiation table.
Mike
Yes. Russian artillery is very plentiful with every maneuver battalion having essentially an organic artillery battalion. They also shoot supersonic at point of impact rounds and we feared it for that and it’s quantity during the Cold War.
The Ukrainians are sitting there getting flogged. Anyone with ten miles of the front line is covered by several dozen tubes.
He's NOT "winning" in Ukraine. This has been going on for over a year now. Where is he, and Russia at?
Sure you did. Put your head in the sand. That invasion handed Reagan the presidency. Until the stingers showed up courtesy of Congressman Wilson, Russia was winning.
Bullshit! Russia is NOT "patriotic" to Putin. And every single day this goes on, The Russian citizens are getting more and more disgusted, and fed up with him. This war has been dragging on for over a YEAR now.
Russia should have had this thing won 8 months ago. Ukraine is going to do the same thing to Russia, that the Mujahideen did to them in Afghanistan. Only it will take less time. The Mujahideen had our weapons, just like Ukraine has them.
Russia is slowly being ground into dust.... Not Ukraine. And their military morale is quickly disintegrating. Young Russian men are going into hiding to avoid this mess that Putin wants to put them in.
If they're so damn "patriotic" why is Putin ordering dissenters and demonstrators arrested? Many have been reported to have been murdered. The way this is going for him, Putin will be lucky if he's still alive in another year. You need a reality check. It must be nice living in never, never land.
Take yours out of your ass.
Here is another newsflash for you, that the rest of the world already knows. Jimmy Carter gave Reagan the Presidency. Not Russia invading Afghanistan. You need some fresh air.
The whole revolution in Iran and the hostage crisis I think played a big part in Carter getting the boot.
Curious if you speak Russian and read Russian press both official and overseas? Do you know any Russians or ethnic Russians who live outside of Russia? They are quite patriotic.
Curious if you have any experience in military operations at the Battalion level or above? War is about terrain and logistics.
Ukraine is a mess. Half the country is occupied and the Russians hold the key high ground there and the rising terrain favors defense. And are close to their supply lines. Ukraine has lost a much higher percentage of their military age males and many of the younger men are now settled in Europe and the US. Ukraine cannot maneuver to the South or North around the current front lines and the terrain now does not favor maneuver. Russia has all its key supply factories intact and has not been materially affected by Western sanctions.
I'm pro Ukrainian, but the current situation does not have an end game that we, the West, can dictate, without widening the conflict. And selfishly we shouldn't.
It favors Europe to keep poking Russia in the eye with a stick called Ukraine, but the real loser is Ukraine, which will get completely ground down socially and culturally, while the West rebuilds its defenses.
I would agree that Carter's total failure in getting the Iranian hostages released, played a major part in his loss to Reagan. 21 percent annual inflation didn't help him a lot either.
The Iranian hostages we're Carter's Waterloo, just as Ukraine will be Putin's.
Lets go back to the first point as you like to change the subject.
Did the Russians successfully invade Afghanistan in 1979?
How did they do in Chechnya in 1999-2000?
Did they successfully invade Georgia in 2008?
Did they take the Crimea in 2014?
I see in Chechnya a parallel in many ways with the Ukraine.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the Mujahideen beat Russia on horseback, fighting out of caves.
The West will NOT let Putin win. He underestimated this war, and his country is paying the price for it.
The "end game" here, as you like to call it, is Putin loses, and the Russian people will pay the price..... Big time.
No. They did not. They got their asses kicked. Are you actually serious, or just drunk?
I think you are missing the difference between successfully invaded and able to hold onto the country.
A couple decades later the USA and all their stooges "successfully invaded" Afghanistan as well...
The Americans and their stooges, just like the Russians a couple decades earlier and every great empire and army before that, found out "successfully invading" Afghanistan is pretty easy. The trying to hold onto it and prop up your puppet government is where things always go bad.
FACT: Russia went into Afghanistan and got their asses kicked. FACT: The exact same thing is going to happen to them again in Ukraine.
We supplied their opposition then. Just as we're doing now. The result will be the same. The West WILL NOT LET Putin win.
I'll give this to the Russians they stayed in Afghanistan for half the time we did and spent less money.
And they didn't leave all their equipment there when they left. Remember the mile long trains loaded with tanks and armored vehicles? All were headed back to Russia.
Zelensky is begging for more US money to launder and American bodies to throw into the grinder. The 14+ yo boys aren't lasting too long.
Unless we start providing those bodies, it seems our weapons and intelligence is only going to take Ukraine so far.
Unless we start providing those bodies, it seems our weapons and intelligence is only going to take Ukraine so far.
Ukraine will run out of cannon fodder. Russia will not. Ukraine has the USA. Russia has China. Unless NATO steps in and triggers WWIII, Russia will own Ukraine... AGAIN.
One of the reasons I pray Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024 is they will undoubtedly tell that corrupt POS Zelensky to go pound sand. That motherfucker makes no qualms about the fact that he hates America and Americans. He only wants the money and equipment we can provide. It's disgusting the amount of our money that senile scumbag Biden has given him. Money that could be used here to help our country and our people. So yeah, fuck Ukraine.
Congress controls the money. As much as I despise Biden, he ain't doing it all by himself.
That's true. The number of Republican senators that support giving away our treasure to one of the most corrupt regimes on earth is mind boggling. But even they are starting to demand some accountability.
While I can agree with most of that, you and I both know that will never happen. This isn't about Ukraine winning. It's more about Putin losing. Nobody really gives a shit about Ukraine, one way or another.
fuck Ukraine. it would benefit the American citizen if Russia wins.
Again, that's NOT going to happen. Too many countries want Putin gone.
That will not happen. (Wishful thinking seldom does). Even Hitler was smart enough to put a bullet through his head when he finally learned how to spell "loser". Putin has destroyed the Russian economy. (Economic sanctions are killing Russia). The people are fed up with him.
Young draft worthy men are going into hiding to avoid this mess that he, and he alone created. There is no more, "Russian Patriotism". (Not that there was much in the first place). And he has made himself a bigger world outcast than Idi Amin. No one is going to want anything to do with him.
He is totally finished as a leader on the world stage. And what is even worse for him, is he's costing the Russian oligarchs billions of dollars in cash and seized property. They can't operate anywhere any longer. All because of him, and his stupid, selfish actions.
Anyone coming in behind him is going to have one hell of a mess to clean up in the homeland. They are not going to have the time, money, or manpower to be thinking about any type of expansionism.
At this point Russia is basically a car stuck in the garage with no gas and 4 flat tires. That's no way to start planning where you're going to move to next.
Yeah, he's got nukes. Big deal. So do a dozen or more other nations that have goofballs manning the buttons. The bulk of which hate us.
Dude, put down the propaganda pipe and back away slowly.
I don't think you see the big picture. It absolutely will happen. Putin doesn't really care about the world stage. He is a nationalist, who hates globalism. Putin is far from washed up, at home. If he succeeds in taking back Ukraine, he will be a Russian hero, AGAIN. Failure is not an option for Putin, even if it means accruing massive debt to China.
Half of the world's population lives in Asia and the Pacific rim and Russia and China do business with most of those countries. If Russia sells enough energy to China, he doesn't really give two shits about sanctions. The enemy of his enemy is his friend and the growing Russia-China alliance will be a behemoth, with Russian energy and Chinese goods. It is not Russia's economy that is tanking, but Europe's and the USA's.
Neither USA, nor NATO will stop Putin from taking Ukraine. The Russian people are tough as nails, even if they've gotten softer over the past 40 years. It's part of the Russian culture to endure the misery of the government, whether czarist, or communist. Sooner, or later, Russia will once again possess Ukraine, Russia's "soft underbelly."
Common sense is a bitch to accept, isn't it.
And yet it appears you have none at all...
Russia's economy has GROWN over the last year, and the Ruble is STRONGER than it was a year ago. Pesky facts.
You can't successfully hold onto a country that still shits in its water supply. The expectation of them to evolve a couple hundred years down the barrel of a gun is just absurd. You would literally have to commit genocide and re populate if you wanted to hold on to it.
It doesn't matter in the least how "tough" they are. Because it's not the peons that are being hurt by the sanctions, (they are, but can't do anything about it). It's the billionaire oligarchs. They are the ones who put, and keep Putin in power.
Since the collapse of the former Soviet Union, along with the introduction of capitalism to the Russian economy, the Russian government has an internal power structure that's not much different than the Italian / American Mafia. Putin is their, "Don" so to speak.
When the Don doesn't perform to the liking of the various underbosses, cappos, and other hierarchy, they usually end up face down in the street. (Think Paul Castellano / John Gotti here).
As I said, they can't operate any longer. Certainly not the way they were used to. Not only that, their multi million dollar yachts and private jets are being seized left and right. As are many of their lavish homes in many parts of the world.
They're the least happy of all with Putin, and his stupid antics. (Not some vodka swigging alcoholic peon, living in some government one bedroom flat in Moscow on $300.00 a month).
Because it's the oligarchs who are the ones who are really paying the price because of Putin. And sooner or later Putin is going to find out just how pissed off they really are. Again, just like the mob, those who put you in power can just as easily take you out.
He thought this invasion was going to be a cake walk. It's proven to have been anything but. Putin is on borrowed time. Everything else is nothing but Saturday afternoon bar stool bullshit.
Those same Oligarchs have stakes in Russia's biggest industry. OIL and GAS. They are making money hand over fist right now. Gazprom's last year was Record Profits.
In the first six months of last year, Gazprom made a record net profit of more than 2.5 trillion roubles (about $37 billion at current exchange rates), more than the profit it had made in the previous two years combined
You need to get some sleep.
There is about 400 years of Russian history that reads pretty much as a play book, outlining why they are doing what they are and the direction they will take until they hit around 500,000 dead... and we are not even halfway there yet. Don't expect much change to be seen in their strategy. Remember, our hands are dirty with broken promises, election interference and public unrest that lead to this. Putin and the majority of Russian citizen haven't forgotten this, nor their historic concerns...
What we can expect from Russia is a more blatant and obvious Russian involvement in any future conflict we find ourselves in due to our actions here.
What we can expect from Russia is a more blatant and obvious Russian involvement in any future conflict we find ourselves in due to our actions here.
but don't believe the folks that live there, believe the folks that lied about afghanistan for 20 years?
If you've been paying attention, any potentially "problematic" oligarchs have been having the most unlucky run of fatal accidents in recorded history over the past year.
I think the west's fantasy of getting the oligarchs mad enough to overthrow their own government so they can make more money is a wet dream based on how the USA is run.
I'd suspect Putin is taking a page from his Chinese Communist allies and cutting those elite rich folks down to size or eliminating them.
Much like China started doing recently.
You need to learn to read.
Russian oligarchs lose $95bn in 2022 amid sanctions after Ukraine war
Roman Abramovich’s fortune fell by 57% to $7.8bn, as the UK government froze more than £18bn of assets belonging to Russians
www.theguardian.com i think the oligarchs understand that it was always nato's goal to destroy the russian economy and energy business (and take it for themselves).You need to learn to read.
Russian oligarchs lose $95bn in 2022 amid sanctions after Ukraine war
Roman Abramovich’s fortune fell by 57% to $7.8bn, as the UK government froze more than £18bn of assets belonging to Russians
letting ukraine abuse ethnic russians in the donbas wasn't going to change that, and would have only accelerated the process.
And you seriously think Roman Abramovich blames Putin for foreign governments stealing investment he held in their countries?You need to learn to read.
Russian oligarchs lose $95bn in 2022 amid sanctions after Ukraine war
Roman Abramovich’s fortune fell by 57% to $7.8bn, as the UK government froze more than £18bn of assets belonging to Russians
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Per the headlines, ukrain lost 11,000 in bakmut. Later in the article it says for Feb.
warnews247-gr.translate.goog
Kρανίου τόπος το Bakhmut: 11.000 νεκροί Oυκρανοί μέσα στην πόλη – Ηττήθηκαν
Η παράδοση του Μπαχμούτ θα ανοίξει το δρόμο για τα ρωσικά στρατεύματα σε πόλεις-κλειδιά στην ανατολική Ουκρανία όπως το Kramatorsk
warnews247-gr.translate.goog 
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