Coup De Grâce, New Action from American Rifle Company, $899 WOW!

So I'm pretty interested in the CDG as it checks every box on my list (CRF, toolless bolt disassembly, interchangeable bolt head, 3 lug.) Never had a custom action/rifle though, but this one seems like a good introduction to the class.
That being said, how big of a PITA is it to get prefits for a conical breech? Is it going to be no different cost and availability wise than a standard flat breech?

YoungBuck94 said:

So I'm pretty interested in the CDG as it checks every box on my list (CRF, toolless bolt disassembly, interchangeable bolt head, 3 lug.) Never had a custom action/rifle though, but this one seems like a good introduction to the class.
That being said, how big of a PITA is it to get prefits for a conical breech? Is it going to be no different cost and availability wise than a standard flat breech?

Click to expand...

There are already some online stores that have committed and they have released the tenon print so any ‘smith that can read and do math can make one for you. You’ll be fine

YoungBuck94 said:

So I'm pretty interested in the CDG as it checks every box on my list (CRF, toolless bolt disassembly, interchangeable bolt head, 3 lug.) Never had a custom action/rifle though, but this one seems like a good introduction to the class.
That being said, how big of a PITA is it to get prefits for a conical breech? Is it going to be no different cost and availability wise than a standard flat breech?

Click to expand...

If you order now, you'll have 4 months to decide! Just joking, just buy the action and then sell your third born. It's ok, the group is here for you...

Anybody know if ARC is still on track to ship the first batch of actions next month?

Crotalus said:

Anybody know if ARC is still on track to ship the first batch of actions next month?

Click to expand...

I also have been wondering this but not wanting to jinx anything by asking... my luck everyone but me would get theirs next week if i asked.

padfoot 37 said:

I also have been wondering this but not wanting to jinx anything by asking... my luck everyone but me would get theirs next week if i asked.

Click to expand...

Being in charge of luck jinxes, I believe that you have effectively asked now…

YoungBuck94 said:

That being said, how big of a PITA is it to get prefits for a conical breech?

Click to expand...

It would be nice if there was a convenient way to have a listed posted here, which we can add to, that shows who's offering pre-fits. Right now that info exists buried as posts in this 2,300+ long thread.

Ebar48 said:

@bohem what twist do you guys run in your 7mm osprey prefits? The website has 6.5mm info on the 7mm page. Also do you have the 7 Sherman short b reamer?

Click to expand...

I've given up trying to keep up with whatever way the wind is blowing on the reamer revisions for a myriad of reasons and they've stopped renting reamers. There's too much changing and lot to lot brass variation that supporting Sherman stuff is financially feasible, and I have been very leery of the safety aspects of the load data provided by them. Rich refuses adamantly to submit anything for pressure barrel testing to back his claims of "more efficiency" and it's my liability insurance on the hook if someone blows up a rifle using his load data.

fmorelli said:

It would be nice if there was a convenient way to have a listed posted here, which we can add to, that shows who's offering pre-fits. Right now that info exists buried as posts in this 2,300+ long thread.

Click to expand...

www.patriotvalleyarms.com

We have prefits in production right now.

bohem said:

Barrel Twist Rates

patriotvalleyarms.com

I've given up trying to keep up with whatever way the wind is blowing on the reamer revisions for a myriad of reasons and they've stopped renting reamers. There's too much changing and lot to lot brass variation that supporting Sherman stuff is financially feasible, and I have been very leery of the safety aspects of the load data provided by them. Rich refuses adamantly to submit anything for pressure barrel testing to back his claims of "more efficiency" and it's my liability insurance on the hook if someone blows up a rifle using his load data.

Click to expand...

glad someone of merit is finally posting this online.

Efficiency at this level is a lie. More powder and more pressure makes velocity. it’s not magic, it’s radical pressure.

The D said:

There are already some online stores that have committed and they have released the tenon print so any ‘smith that can read and do math can make one for you. You’ll be fine

Click to expand...

Appreciate that. Then the question is caliber, but that's an internal debate. Leaning towards 280 AI but we'll see.

YoungBuck94 said:

Appreciate that. Then the question is caliber, but that's an internal debate. Leaning towards 280 AI but we'll see.

Click to expand...

With replaceable bolt heads and how easy it is to swap barrels the question should be; “What barrel should I start with?” But, 280ai is a great answer

Caldeio said:

If you order now, you'll have 4 months to decide! Just joking, just buy the action and then sell your third born. It's ok, the group is here for you...

Click to expand...

Hahaha well I don't have a first born to sell, let alone a third... However that makes the purchase of toys and arms much easier

The D said:

With replaceable bolt heads and how easy it is to swap barrels the question should be; “What barrel should I start with?” But, 280ai is a great answer

Click to expand...

Haha yeah that would have been more accurate. 280 AI I feel would be about perfect for me as the furthest possible shot I have access to anywhere is only 719, and I don't intend on taking any game shots past 400.

DangerRanger said:

glad someone of merit is finally posting this online.

Efficiency at this level is a lie. More powder and more pressure makes velocity. it’s not magic, it’s radical pressure.

Click to expand...

I bit my tongue for a while and kept quiet. When someone recently called and gave me a lecture about how incredible the new "6.5 SI" was I couldn't sit still any longer. Sherman Improved... 40 degree shoulder, less body taper.... the audacity to overload brass, tell people it's safe without any pressure testing to back it, and then call P. O. Ackley's idea your own was just too much. Now I've put it in writing and I'll be happy to eat crow when some pressure testing from a SAAMI or CIP certified pressure test barrel says so. Until then, I don't buy it and I'm done putting my insurance policy in the liability chain.

On Another Note:

Here's the final qualified tenon against the ARC print. We made stubs of 223, Valkyrie, Grendel, and 308 case head tenons with the conical breech face. Production on the Group Buy barrels is in full swing, they will start shipping next week. All contours, lengths and muzzle threads are done. It's just down to tenon/chamber/polish.

(The machine work looks scruffy being that it's cut from a piece of scrap steel laying around, not a barrel blank)

fmorelli said:

It would be nice if there was a convenient way to have a listed posted here, which we can add to, that shows who's offering pre-fits. Right now that info exists buried as posts in this 2,300+ long thread.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

So far I know of...

-PVA (Patriot Valley Arms) Already making them, and replied to you above (Ordered mine from them)

-Straight Jacket Armory (Benchmark steel blanks, Proof carbon barrels, and Bartlein drop shipped from Bugholes

-Preferred Barrel Blanks

Also, someone mentioned Carbon Six is or will be making them, and I believe there was one or two others mentioned. Hope this helps.

bohem said:

Barrel Twist Rates

patriotvalleyarms.com

I've given up trying to keep up with whatever way the wind is blowing on the reamer revisions for a myriad of reasons and they've stopped renting reamers. There's too much changing and lot to lot brass variation that supporting Sherman stuff is financially feasible, and I have been very leery of the safety aspects of the load data provided by them. Rich refuses adamantly to submit anything for pressure barrel testing to back his claims of "more efficiency" and it's my liability insurance on the hook if someone blows up a rifle using his load data.

Click to expand...

This is interesting as I ordered a short action and a 223 barrel from you with the idea of maxing out the short action with a 7ss barrel from you guys. Been reading a lot of threads on here about the round and it seems to be excellent at face value. So for long range in a sa stick to the 6.5CM as I've read 7SAUM is crippled in a sa?

bohem said:

I bit my tongue for a while and kept quiet. When someone recently called and gave me a lecture about how incredible the new "6.5 SI" was I couldn't sit still any longer. Sherman Improved... 40 degree shoulder, less body taper.... the audacity to overload brass, tell people it's safe without any pressure testing to back it, and then call P. O. Ackley's idea your own was just too much. Now I've put it in writing and I'll be happy to eat crow when some pressure testing from a SAAMI or CIP certified pressure test barrel says so. Until then, I don't buy it and I'm done putting my insurance policy in the liability chain.

On Another Note:

Here's the final qualified tenon against the ARC print. We made stubs of 223, Valkyrie, Grendel, and 308 case head tenons with the conical breech face. Production on the Group Buy barrels is in full swing, they will start shipping next week. All contours, lengths and muzzle threads are done. It's just down to tenon/chamber/polish.

(The machine work looks scruffy being that it's cut from a piece of scrap steel laying around, not a barrel blank)

View attachment 8097168

Click to expand...

awesome news that the pre orders will be shipping soon. How many pre orders did you get?

bohem said:

I bit my tongue for a while and kept quiet. When someone recently called and gave me a lecture about how incredible the new "6.5 SI" was I couldn't sit still any longer. Sherman Improved... 40 degree shoulder, less body taper.... the audacity to overload brass, tell people it's safe without any pressure testing to back it, and then call P. O. Ackley's idea your own was just too much. Now I've put it in writing and I'll be happy to eat crow when some pressure testing from a SAAMI or CIP certified pressure test barrel says so. Until then, I don't buy it and I'm done putting my insurance policy in the liability chain.

On Another Note:

Here's the final qualified tenon against the ARC print. We made stubs of 223, Valkyrie, Grendel, and 308 case head tenons with the conical breech face. Production on the Group Buy barrels is in full swing, they will start shipping next week. All contours, lengths and muzzle threads are done. It's just down to tenon/chamber/polish.

(The machine work looks scruffy being that it's cut from a piece of scrap steel laying around, not a barrel blank)

View attachment 8097168

Click to expand...

Totally understand about the load data, and I agree completely that the “published” 30SM data for the 245s is faster than the majority of people are running them in the 300NM. When it comes down to it, I just honestly like the looks of improved cartridges and the fact that, although costly, quality brass is always available. And yea I can care less if people want to try to obtain some insane velocity out of it, I don’t load that way for many reasons. But yea if you are carrying liability insurance for it, totally not worth it. I do wish they would submit to px testing. Thanks for the response

Im2bent said:

This is interesting as I ordered a short action and a 223 barrel from you with the idea of maxing out the short action with a 7ss barrel from you guys. Been reading a lot of threads on here about the round and it seems to be excellent at face value. So for long range in a sa stick to the 6.5CM as I've read 7SAUM is crippled in a sa?

Click to expand...

The 7 SAUM in a SA isn't crippled but it's definitely not what you can do with a throated out version in a medium or LA. A nice medium balance there has turned out to be a 7/6.5 PRC or "Short PRC". It has an excellent balance of fitting in the SA with a larger case body than the Creed or standard 308 based stuff.

Ultimately, what do you consider to be "long range" for the application where a 7 SAUM is on your mind?

LuvDog said:

awesome news that the pre orders will be shipping soon. How many pre orders did you get?

Click to expand...

Enough to keep us busy for a couple of weeks cutting chambers. The Hide was good to us and I'm appreciative of being able to work with a good customer base.

bohem said:

Enough to keep us busy for a couple of weeks cutting chambers. The Hide was good to us and I'm appreciative of being able to work with a good customer base.

Click to expand...

Based on the comment up above with the stub gauge pic, are you still cutting a fair amount of Valkyrie chambers for bolt guns? I’m still loving the one I got from you.

RFutch said:

Based on the comment up above with the stub gauge pic, are you still cutting a fair amount of Valkyrie chambers for bolt guns. I’m still loving the one I got from you.

Click to expand...

Almost none TBH, however I did do the qualifying work for the odd one that comes in now and again. I'm glad to hear you're enjoying it. They're not very popular due to feeding issues typically. I had a barrel years ago on a Bighorn pre-TL series receiver that was essentially a 224V with an aggressive AI job on it. It was fun shooting 75 Amax at 3300 from a 20" bolt gun. Though I didn't have good luck getting it to feed all that well.

Little bumpy road to get here but I’m now using MDT 6BR 10 rounders with the lips bent in to .365 apart. It feeds like butter, no issues out of an Origin.

RFutch said:

Little bumpy road to get here but I’m now using MDT 6BR 10 rounders with the lips bent in to .365 apart. It feeds like butter, no issues out of an Origin.

Click to expand...

That's really good to know. Thank you

Well ... looks like CarbonSix pre-fits for magnums but not the SA CDG's ...

They can't figure that part out??? lol

That's embarrassing

I'm no machinist but I've cut a few parts before. Maybe I'm missing something but programming in the coned breech seems straight forward and is called out clearly in the tenon dwg. Wonder what the issue is.

AirgunnerPCP said:

I'm no machinist but I've cut a few parts before. Maybe I'm missing something but programming in the coned breech seems straight forward and is called out clearly in the tenon dwg. Wonder what the issue is.

Click to expand...

Coned breech would likely require an ID cutter of some sort. Od cutters don't have the clearance to do it.
This is somewhat an unusual od holder but it shows the area needed to get the point across. The area under the insert would need to be relieved. This is only an od or face tool.


Here is a boring bar. The size of the boring bar has to be matched to the size of the smallest hole it needs to fit in. Would be easiest to go into the chamber and come out and face up to not leave a possible burr in the chamber.


For a better explanation of clearances that is funny here's This Old Tony.

For more granular details on boring bars Blondihacks has a pretty good vid.

Aren't coned breaches fairly common on rimfire rifles?

Nevermind: Coned breaches in rimfire are different than centerfire coned breaches.

LeftyJason said:

Coned breech would likely require an ID cutter of some sort. Od cutters don't have the clearance to do it.
This is somewhat an unusual od holder but it shows the area needed to get the point across. The area under the insert would need to be relieved. This is only an od or face tool.


Here is a boring bar. The size of the boring bar has to be matched to the size of the smallest hole it needs to fit in. Would be easiest to go into the chamber and come out and face up to not leave a possible burr in the chamber.


For a better explanation of clearances that is funny here's This Old Tony.

For more granular details on boring bars Blondihacks has a pretty good vid.

Click to expand...

I understand the tooling involved. I guess it's just surprising to me that they would have an issue machining a cone.

I ordered one early from Carbon 6. They said they would do them if they were a standard cone across the board and that they didn't want to do them if there were a bunch of different drawings for different calibers. I haven't looked at the drawing but I assume that's the case.

zeroz said:

I ordered one early from Carbon 6. They said they would do them if they were a standard cone across the board and that they didn't want to do them if there were a bunch of different drawings for different calibers. I haven't looked at the drawing but I assume that's the case.

Click to expand...

You ordered one? Specifically for what caliber? And they are doing it? Seems like the response I have says they are not.

AirgunnerPCP said:

I understand the tooling involved. I guess it's just surprising to me that they would have an issue machining a cone.

Click to expand...

I also explained for others that don't understand machining.

If a shop can't make and proof a couple of NC programs for different cone depths for 3 or 4 different case head diameters, can you trust them with a chambering reamer?

It's probably more likely that they can't be bothered with it. Not enough juice.

I get that it's an extra step, but why not still offer it at an additional price?

I can't really speak for them and what they're going to do moving forward. When I originally called the said they do cone breaches for several barrels, so I dont think they're inept. They said that they weren't interested in making a bunch of different cuts for prefits. Sounded like it was too much pain for the amount they'd sell. They did say that they were going to do mine and a few others since it was pre tenon drawing. I have-not heard different from them so hopefully they honor it. I kinda hate to be ordering another barrel now, but it may not matter. I haven't tried their barrels yet and have heard good things so thought I'd give it a go this time. We'll find out if I'll be back or not. So far I am happy with the customer service in that they answered the phone, spent the time to answer my questions and said they would make the barrel even if they decided not to make prefits for the Coup.

zeroz said:

I can't really speak for them and what they're going to do moving forward. When I originally called the said they do cone breaches for several barrels, so I dont think they're inept. They said that they weren't interested in making a bunch of different cuts for prefits. Sounded like it was too much pain for the amount they'd sell. They did say that they were going to do mine and a few others since it was pre tenon drawing. I have-not heard different from them so hopefully they honor it. I kinda hate to be ordering another barrel now, but it may not matter. I haven't tried their barrels yet and have heard good things so thought I'd give it a go this time. We'll find out if I'll be back or not. So far I am happy with the customer service in that they answered the phone, spent the time to answer my questions and said they would make the barrel even if they decided not to make prefits for the Coup.

Click to expand...

I have a couple of their barrels and they shoot very well. You won’t be disappointed.

fmorelli said:

Well ... looks like CarbonSix pre-fits for magnums but not the SA CDG's ...

View attachment 8097726

Click to expand...

“Weird cone”. Tell me you’re not a machinist without telling me you’re not a machinist. I wouldn’t trust anyone to chamber a barrel who can’t figure out how to cone a breach.

zeroz said:

I ordered one early from Carbon 6. They said they would do them if they were a standard cone across the board and that they didn't want to do them if there were a bunch of different drawings for different calibers. I haven't looked at the drawing but I assume that's the case.

Click to expand...

There will be one cone for each bolt head, up to the magnums that don’t require it. Not many at all.

Tokay444 said:

“Weird cone”. Tell me you’re not a machinist without telling me you’re not a machinist. I wouldn’t trust anyone to chamber a barrel who can’t figure out how to cone a breach.

Click to expand...

“Director of sales” it’s in his sig.

Here’s the CDG prefits from 0800-1200 today just before I QA checked all of them.

End of day count: 31 chambered barrels ready for polishing room.

Guys will start seeing shipping notices tomorrow.

If Carbon 6 doesn’t want to make coned prefits you are welcome to call us. We have it qualified and they’re flowing well.

Looks like everyone is going with 6.5 CM!

Those look beautiful though, I should have pulled the trigger when the free muzzle brake preorder was going on.

@bohem what's the lead time on 7mm osprey CFW blanks? or any blank, CFW or not

bohem said:

The 7 SAUM in a SA isn't crippled but it's definitely not what you can do with a throated out version in a medium or LA. A nice medium balance there has turned out to be a 7/6.5 PRC or "Short PRC". It has an excellent balance of fitting in the SA with a larger case body than the Creed or standard 308 based stuff.

Ultimately, what do you consider to be "long range" for the application where a 7 SAUM is on your mind?

Click to expand...

Your question made me reevaluate my needs vs my wants and probable range opportunity's and will end up with a manbun to keep things "real".

Only sees 6.5CM... cries in 22GT.

zeroz said:

I can't really speak for them and what they're going to do moving forward. When I originally called the said they do cone breaches for several barrels, so I dont think they're inept. They said that they weren't interested in making a bunch of different cuts for prefits. Sounded like it was too much pain for the amount they'd sell. They did say that they were going to do mine and a few others since it was pre tenon drawing. I have-not heard different from them so hopefully they honor it. I kinda hate to be ordering another barrel now, but it may not matter. I haven't tried their barrels yet and have heard good things so thought I'd give it a go this time. We'll find out if I'll be back or not. So far I am happy with the customer service in that they answered the phone, spent the time to answer my questions and said they would make the barrel even if they decided not to make prefits for the Coup.

Click to expand...

Please keep us apprised. Appreciate the reply. BTW what caliber did you ask them for?

Im2bent said:

Your question made me reevaluate my needs vs my wants and probable range opportunity's and will end up with a manbun to keep things "real".

Click to expand...

Don't go down the logic path vs the uggah duggahs ... that's a hole you won't climb out of net positive.