Concerns about SAC CS

noobinacan · Mar 27, 2023

I ordered the barrel vice with single bushing. did not realize it doesn't come with the arca base.
got it Friday. emailed them Fri about this...
this morning, I asked them if I could return it new in original condition, I'd pay for the return shipping. and I'd order the full kit.

***
the guy says NO you cannot return based on return policy on our website. he says he has already run it up the chain of command and this is their decision. So I go to the website and read the return policy he was pointing me to.

on their site return policy says :
https://shortactioncustoms.com/returns-and-guarantee/
"Returns on SAC Original products are accepted within 30 days of original purchase date and must be in new unused condition. All orders will be subject to a 20% restocking fee."

At this point, he says "I don't care I don't want to talk about this anymore and says - have a nice day" before the hangup.

This is my first order with them and
I am shocked. this guy was rude, un helpful and straight up a dick!
i thought these guys were reputable and not shady like this.

is there another Short action customs ???

Returns and Guarantee

shortactioncustoms.com

I need the vice and it appears to be a great product.
but any future buyers be ware of buying anything from them. If this is how they are going to treat their customers and not stand by their own published policies. Consider the alternatives before buying direct form them.

unbelievable!

fdkay · Mar 27, 2023

Me thinks there is more to this story.

jb0311 · Mar 27, 2023

I’m a little confused here. You said you emailed them Friday but this morning you called them? Did they respond to your email from Friday? It would help if you could post any correspondence between the two of you. Otherwise you’re expecting us to take you at your word, and you’re relatively new here and we don’t know you, vs an established and well regarded company in most of our experiences.

Help us help you. Do you have anything else to add? Who did you speak to there? Shoot them another email with all of these details and post up their response.

hafejd30 · Mar 27, 2023

noobinacan · Mar 27, 2023

first time customer with them. first order with them.
here's my email to them on Fri. and their response below...not addressing my question on return.
so I called them this morning to clarify that i WILL PAY for it. I'm not looking to get anything for free.
but the rude guy on the other end did not want to talk.

and said just buy the additional stuff. and we will not do a RMA. even though our site says we will.

"
Hi guys

Now that its delivered, I was looking for the base in the box. And now I check the site again and realized this does not come with the Base….
Went to order the base and its out of stock.

So at this point, I want to order the full Barrel vice kit. But then that doesn’t come with the 17mm bushing I need.
And I’m not sure if I return this order, if I will get my full refund back?
Fri night and Just easily frustrated!

Thank you!"

***

We just got the ARCA bases back this morning, and the inventory is updated on the website. Unfortunately, we cannot swap out your Bravo Barrel Vise Single Bushing Kit for a full kit. You are welcome to purchase the 5 sets up bushings and ARCA base a la cart for $255 plus shipping. We apologize for any inconvenience. If you have any further questions, feel free to shoot us an email or give us a call at 440-309-0085 Mon-Fri 0700-1500EST.

Have a great day,

SAC Team

noobinacan · Mar 27, 2023

"you, vs an established and well regarded company in most of our experiences."

Right - I am very surprised as well and wondering if there's another short action customs.

Hickswr · Mar 27, 2023

This prob isn’t going to end the way the OP envisioned~

Softtail103 · Mar 27, 2023

A+ company with me. Never a problem. The complete story needs to be told, this sounds way out of the norm from my experiences.

noobinacan · Mar 27, 2023

From my end - this is the complete story. Just know that they don't stick to their own policy.
All this over a $185 item.

I don't expect anything out of this...just know that if you are about to make $$ with them.
you will get treated the same way.

Phone conversation was simply like this:

Me: can I RMA ? in orig condition.
- SAC: no you cannot - our site says no returns.
me: your site says I can. here it what it says I can. and I will pay shipping and take .....

-----GOT CUT OFF BY THE REP -----
SAC: no you cannot - we ran this up the chain on command and I am done talking to you.

me: in shock

The Godfather · Mar 27, 2023

So I’m confused, you ordered a part without the clamp. You emailed them and they responded quickly that the clamp is now in stock LINK . Instead of ordering the clamp you want to return the item an order something else?

rustyinbend · Mar 27, 2023

Tons of SAC stuff, a few returns, never had a hint of a problem. They even gave me a veteran's discount code that works "forever". Their stuff is top-notch, and the service has always been terrific. Can't speak to your experiences, but I can certainly speak to mine, which have been universally positive.

noobinacan · Mar 27, 2023

I wanted to RMA and order the Full KIT
they won't let you RMA. even though their SITE says, you can RMA.

why say this - but not stick to it ?

"Returns on SAC Original products are accepted within 30 days of original purchase date and must be in new unused condition. All orders will be subject to a 20% restocking fee."

Charger442 · Mar 27, 2023

The Godfather said:
So I’m confused, you ordered a part without the clamp. You emailed them and they responded quickly that the clamp is now in stock LINK . Instead of ordering the clamp you want to return the item an order something else?

I don't know what I'm missing here either. Customer didn't confirm what was in his order kit, that's on him.

So buy the arca base and move on?

All my dealings with SAC have been great. Years ago Mark answered all the emails. I'm sure he's expanded from that

noobinacan · Mar 27, 2023

rustyinbend said:
Tons of SAC stuff, a few returns, never had a hint of a problem. They even gave me a veteran's discount code that works "forever". Their stuff is top-notch, and the service has always been terrific. Can't speak to your experiences, but I can certainly speak to mine, which have been universally positive.

they let you RMA ?
wow...so I'm genuinely curious what's the big deal to RMA this $185 product.
I was going to turn around the spend $315 with them. immediately.

WTF,...unbelievable.

noobinacan · Mar 27, 2023

Charger442 said:
I don't know what I'm missing here either. Customer didn't confirm what was in his order kit, that's on him.

So buy the arca base and move on?

All my dealings with SAC have been great. Years ago Mark answered all the emails. I'm sure he's expanded from that

they won't let you RMA now it appears.
ever ordered something by mistake ...and returned it ?

HOOFER · Mar 27, 2023

noobinacan said:
they won't let you RMA now it appears.
ever ordered something by mistake ...and returned it ?

Your 55 dollar part is back in stock….

And your 40 dollar part….

Dozens of members here have 4K plus rifles from them…

Seems an easy fix rather than coming on here and showing your ass and blasting a well respected company in the industry for your mistake…..

I’d be really curious to see screen shots of the email traffic…. Rather than just copy paste…. Based on your demeanor here.

noobinacan · Mar 27, 2023

its ok to say we RMA on the site. then you don't RMA
that reputable. sure.

that's ok right ?
any comment on that ?

OREGUN · Mar 27, 2023

You’re on a lonely island here bud. Nothing but love from Mark and company for me. So much so that I called to ask about a new item not listed on the website and he sent me the one he had on his desk.

Sorry they don’t want to jump through a bunch of hassle just so you can end up with the same bunch of parts you could just order from them right now. I would not take your mistake back either…especially now that you said you are just going to reorder the same parts, repackaged.

Maybe ask for a return, in accordance with their policy, and promise to never darken their doorstep again.

HOOFER · Mar 27, 2023

noobinacan said:
its ok to say we RMA on the site. then you don't RMA
that reputable. sure.

that's ok right ?
any comment on that ?

Did you part come incorrect as specified? For fault of theirs ??

Edited**. I see line 3 now.

again. Screenshots of your email traffic. Would probably get you more empathy here.

You agreed to pay the 20% restock fee? And then reorder with the complete parts?

Nik H · Mar 27, 2023

I have nothing but positives to add about SAC. Always treated me right.

Sounds like there is nothing wrong with what you bought other than it didn't contain all of the parts you wanted. RMAs are not meant for that.

Why wouldn't you just order the parts necessary to replicate the full kit?

Makes no sense to me

noobinacan · Mar 27, 2023

OREGUN said:
You’re on a lonely island here bud. Nothing but love from Mark and company for me. So much so that I called to ask about a new item not listed on the website and he sent me the one he had on his desk.

Sorry they don’t want to jump through a bunch of hassle just so you can end up with the same bunch of parts you could just order from them right now. I would not take your mistake back either…especially now that you said you are just going to reorder the same parts, repackaged.

Maybe ask for a return, in accordance with their policy, and promise to never darken their doorstep again.

wow - that's great.
right - just asked for a return. offered to pay return ship and follow their policy.
and they said we won't return.

HOOFER · Mar 27, 2023

Nik H said:
I have nothing but positives to add about SAC. Always treated me right.

Sounds like there is nothing wrong with what you bought other than it didn't contain all of the parts you wanted. RMAs are not meant for that.

Why wouldn't you just order the parts necessary to replicate the full kit?

Makes no sense to me

Paying a restock fee and bitching on a forum full of satisfied customers are better options.

noobinacan · Mar 27, 2023

wait a minute...
So if a company says this on this site.

"Returns on SAC Original products are accepted within 30 days of original purchase date and must be in new unused condition. All orders will be subject to a 20% restocking fee."

But then they don't honor it.
that's ok right ?

b6graham · Mar 27, 2023

dude...no one here cares

order the ARCA base and move on...way less work for them and you

noobinacan · Mar 27, 2023

b6graham said:
dude...no one here cares

order the ARCA base and move on...way less work for them and you

Thanks - that's what I needed and I'm going to do just that. and learn a lesson

TrevK · Mar 27, 2023

Could it be that they think it’s stupid to make you pay a restock fee instead of you just ordering the missing parts you need? Sounds like they might have been trying to save you money and you just aren’t getting it, so they are getting annoyed.

Pat McGroin · Mar 27, 2023

Charger442 · Mar 27, 2023

noobinacan said:
wait a minute...
So if a company says this on this site.

"Returns on SAC Original products are accepted within 30 days of original purchase date and must be in new unused condition. All orders will be subject to a 20% restocking fee."

But then they don't honor it.
that's ok right ?

you are selectively trying to place this part out there when you need to include all of it.

RETURNS

We will approve the return of an order if the order has incorrect specifications on parts or services within 30 days of receipt by the buyer. SAC will inspect the rifle and fix all incorrect specifications. If the rifle cannot be fixed SAC will issue a refund within 60 days.
Once a deposit is made NO refunds can be issued.
Returns on SAC Original products are accepted within 30 days of original purchase date and must be in new unused condition. All orders will be subject to a 20% restocking fee.

That WHOLE returns statement says they with RMA at their discretion if there is something wrong with the parts or something is missing. Not because you ordered the wrong stuff.

This is 100% on you and no one here is going to appreciate you running down a very reputable company.

noobinacan · Mar 27, 2023

TrevK said:
Could it be that they think it’s stupid to make you pay a restock fee instead of you just ordering the missing parts you need? Sounds like they might have been trying to save you money and you just aren’t getting it, so they are getting annoyed.

ok sure...thanks for that line of thought.

I guess I was just surprised and taken back by the fact that they won't stick to their policy and no explanation was give
and that plus the tone on the phone and the hang-up.

noobinacan · Mar 27, 2023

Charger442 said:
you are selectively trying to place this part out there when you need to include all of it.

RETURNS
We will approve the return of an order if the order has incorrect specifications on parts or services within 30 days of receipt by the buyer. SAC will inspect the rifle and fix all incorrect specifications. If the rifle cannot be fixed SAC will issue a refund within 60 days.

Once a deposit is made NO refunds can be issued.

Returns on SAC Original products are accepted within 30 days of original purchase date and must be in new unused condition. All orders will be subject to a 20% restocking fee.

That WHOLE returns statement says they with RMA at their discretion if there is something wrong with the parts or something is missing. Not because you ordered the wrong stuff.

This is 100% on you and no one here is going to appreciate you running down a very reputable company.

ok let's take all three bullet's inclusively.
then even if SAC had a issue with a product, they will still charge you 20% restock ?

anyways.
I'm over it guys. thanks for all the feedback.

Charger442 · Mar 27, 2023

noobinacan said:
ok sure...thanks for that line of thought.

I guess I was just surprised and taken back by the fact that they won't stick to their policy and no explanation was give
and that plus the tone on the phone and the hang-up.

stop trying to misstate their policy. read the entirety of it that i have posted, directly from their website, and you will actually see why the one statement you are trying to stand on is incomplete.

W54/XM-388 · Mar 27, 2023

noobinacan said:
wait a minute...
So if a company says this on this site.

"Returns on SAC Original products are accepted within 30 days of original purchase date and must be in new unused condition. All orders will be subject to a 20% restocking fee."

But then they don't honor it.
that's ok right ?

Quick question if you don't mind that would probably help answer a lot of things:

From your e-mail you posted it sounds like:
1. you got everything you wanted except for the base plate
(is this correct?)

2. the "complete kit" doesn't include the bushing you need, and would have to be ordered separately, however you already have that bushing as part of the stuff you ordered earlier.
(Is this correct?)

3. The base plate you need just came in stock and can be immediately ordered

If that is the case, can I ask why you can't just go ahead and buy the base plate you need and be done?
Is there some significant difference in cost between what you have already purchased + a base plate, compared to ordering the "kit" + a bushing + paying shipping?

It kind of sounds like the suggestion to just go ahead and buy the base plate from their CS would actually be the simplest and probably easiest thing for you to do.

redneckbmxer24 · Mar 27, 2023

That's pretty shitty that they won't let you exchange it and pay the difference for the full kit. If you had used it I'd get it, but if you haven't and you're willing to pay return shipping costs then I don't see why it would matter. That's not great CS on SAC's end.

FWIW, I had a pretty bad experience with SAC many years ago when it was just Mark there. I sent in an AI AE barreled action to have it chopped back and threaded. Got it back and he just threaded it and didn't cut it back per the work order. Basically said "sorry ohh well". My option was to live with it or pay another $100 for round trip shipping again for his fuck up. Decided it wasn't worth it and was overall pretty pissed off at the situation. He was supposed to refund me the difference between just a thread job and a cut, crown, and thread... never saw a dime.

SAC may have an overall good reputation, but that doesn't mean that they can't still suck. I would consider this them sucking, and my experience them sucking as well.

jb0311 · Mar 27, 2023

W54/XM-388 said:
Quick question if you don't mind that would probably help answer a lot of things:

From your e-mail you posted it sounds like:
1. you got everything you wanted except for the base plate
(is this correct?)

2. the "complete kit" doesn't include the bushing you need, and would have to be ordered separately, however you already have that bushing as part of the stuff you ordered earlier.
(Is this correct?)

3. The base plate you need just came in stock and can be immediately ordered

If that is the case, can I ask why you can't just go ahead and buy the base plate you need and be done?
Is there some significant difference in cost between what you have already purchased + a base plate, compared to ordering the "kit" + a bushing + paying shipping?

It kind of sounds like the suggestion to just go ahead and buy the base plate from their CS would actually be the simplest and probably easiest thing for you to do.

Plus the 20% restocking fee on top of that. As someone already said, they could have been trying to explain this to him, that it would be easier just to order the now in stock plate, and he was trying to argue about policy and they got frustrated with him

redneckbmxer24 · Mar 27, 2023

Charger442 said:
stop trying to misstate their policy. read the entirety of it that i have posted, directly from their website, and you will actually see why the one statement you are trying to stand on is incomplete.

You're the only one misstating their policy, what you're using is their policies on rifle builds. Look two rows below it addresses SAC brandard products, which the barrel vise would fall under. OP isn't misstating shit, you are.

Jcarpenter223 · Mar 27, 2023

No screenshots of emails seems kinda sus tbh. Plus the fact your part just came in stock...seems like this is a mountain out of a mole hill situation and you wanted to Kickstart some bs

Cascade Hemi · Mar 27, 2023

I've ordered from SAC, I like the stuff they make and will order from them again. Mark is also a pillar of the precision shooting industry. Their return policy is shitty and sucks out loud.

lash · Mar 27, 2023

This isn’t the SH Company line, but most of you all are blinded by your good experience(s) with a good company. As such you are not reading, or caring, that the OP has a valid question.

Even good companies sometimes make the wrong choice and yes, it’s possible that the OP didn’t describe his exact situation correctly, but it is Crystal clear that we are assholes here when it comes to cutting slack. Welcome to Snipers Hide.

cas6969 · Mar 27, 2023

No screenshots of emails seems kinda sus tbh.

If no one cares, no one is going to care.

noobinacan · Mar 27, 2023

Cascade Hemi said:
I've ordered from SAC, I like the stuff they make and will order from them again. Mark is also a pillar of the precision shooting industry. Their return policy is shitty and sucks out loud.

I am sure Mark is and that's great to hear.
then I wonder if he aware what's going on under him in the company ?

my frustration and surprised was
they won't follow their own return policy...all the while pointing you to their website to read the return policy.
I guess if you are big like SAC, you can do whatever you want.

redneckbmxer24 · Mar 27, 2023

lash said:
This isn’t the SH Company line, but most of you all are blinded by your good experience(s) with a good company. As such you are not reading, or caring, that the OP has a valid question.

Even good companies sometimes make the wrong choice and yes, it’s possible that the OP didn’t describe his exact situation correctly, but it is Crystal clear that we are assholes here when it comes to cutting slack. Welcome to Snipers Hide.

Exactly, people get so emotionally invested in the companies they patronize that they can do no wrong.

Even though their own return policy states that he can return it for a restocking fee. They’re not following their own policy.

AllenOne1 · Mar 27, 2023

OP
I am willing to agree with you that their return policy sucks. Their products are very good though.

But slow down and think about his for a minute.
You have purchased the Bravo with one bushing for $185, If you add the base for another $55 you are into this for $240 plus shipping.

If you return the original Bravo and replace it with the kit for $275 then add the one bushing that you need for $40 plus you have a restocking fee of $37 you will be into it for $352 plus shipping.

What do you gain? Five bushings that you don't probably need anyway. Dust collectors. If it was me I would save the $100 now and order any additional bushings I needed later as I needed them.

Or just sell the Bravo you have and walk away.

Holliday · Mar 27, 2023

Every company has a bad day with CS no matter how good they are. Most of my experiences with SAC have been great. I did order one tool that was supposed to have an orientation engraving. It came without this. I emailed figuring it was just a missed QC issue and they would make good. The email response was very matter of fact that their engraving machine was down. No notice on the website, no discount for less than advertised, no sorry we’ll take it back if you are not happy.

So I used a sharpie. I treat tools I purchase for SAC as long term investments so I was not pleased, but sho ga nai. Not how I would have handled that with my customers…..

Cascade Hemi · Mar 27, 2023

redneckbmxer24 said:
Exactly, people get so emotionally invested in the companies they patronize that they can do no wrong.

Even though their own return policy states that he can return it for a restocking fee. They’re not following their own policy.

Even if they follow their stated return policy it still sucks. As if the volume of business SAC transacts represents enough exposure for returns to reach 20% fixed cost. They just don't want returns. That's their prerogative but as the consumer I'm probably going to keep that in mind in the future.

I don't know OP, I don't know if he's FOS, I don't think it matters. On it's face, this thread isn't flattering to SAC for several reasons.

Baron23 · Mar 27, 2023

I have zero idea why this immediately turned into a “dog pile the OP” thread.

I get it that Mark and SAC have a lot of great references among SH members and that they are indeed an important pillar in the custom gun industry.

But that has zero to do with the OP’s complaint about shit CS and I do indeed view this instance as just that.

This “he called my baby ugly” reaction all too often to be seems SOP here on the Hide

st1650 · Mar 27, 2023

I’ve had nothing but positive experiences with SAC.

TrevK · Mar 27, 2023

Max said:
Every company has a bad day with CS no matter how good they are. Most of my experiences with SAC have been great. I did order one tool that was supposed to have an orientation engraving. It came without this. I emailed figuring it was just a missed QC issue and they would make good. The email response was very matter of fact that their engraving machine was down. No notice on the website, no discount for less than advertised, no sorry we’ll take it back if you are not happy.

So I used a sharpie. I treat tools I purchase for SAC as long term investments so I was not pleased, but sho ga nai. Not how I would have handled that with my customers…..

That is pretty shitty.

jb0311 · Mar 27, 2023

If we were to believe every complaint of a company based on one side of the story, that we read online, then every company sucks I guess. I’m not emotionally invested in SAC at all, but I’m not going to go along with dogging on them based on some random poster on this forum, with no actual proof of his claims, and no hearing SAC’s side of the story. All we have is a copy/paste of the OPs selection, and a confusing description of a phone call with no way to verify.

But sure, “Short Action Customs Sucks!”

noobinacan · Mar 27, 2023

what kind of proof do you want ? a picture of the email thread ?
anyone can edit/alert a picture to say whatever....

recording of the voice conversation ? wish I would have recorded. but i have never had a need to in my life...
today was a first.

after today..
Just know that if you are buying SAC original products. there are NO returns. (even if it contradicts what their own policy on their site)

W54/XM-388 · Mar 27, 2023

AllenOne1 said:
OP
I am willing to agree with you that their return policy sucks. Their products are very good though.

But slow down and think about his for a minute.
You have purchased the Bravo with one bushing for $185, If you add the base for another $55 you are into this for $240 plus shipping.

If you return the original Bravo and replace it with the kit for $275 then add the one bushing that you need for $40 plus you have a restocking fee of $37 you will be into it for $352 plus shipping.

What do you gain? Five bushings that you don't probably need anyway. Dust collectors. If it was me I would save the $100 now and order any additional bushings I needed later as I needed them.

Or just sell the Bravo you have and walk away.

Pretty much what I was trying to get him to work out for himself by asking him a logic series of questions to make him stop and think.

That's also probably why the CS guy on the phone was like WTF just get the one part you need, come out cheaper and stop being an idiot.

Watch Out for Scammers!

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