Man, that poor Axis!
- Thread starter enichols
- Start date
Wait, so you don't just fill the case with powder and scrape the mouth with a butter knife?
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I would have to source some original factory junky parts to make it fair and less painfull.
The barrel costs more than the rifle did originally, so does the stock for that matter.
WTS lightly used Savage 6.5cm. Already disassembled for easy transport. A few small scratches and will throw in a few boxes of premium handloaded ammo.
WhenInwas a teenager just starting out in pistol shooting… IPSC back in early ‘80s before it got big… I shot a .38 Smith revolver.
To feed it, Lee Loader where you hammer the case in and out to load.
Used bullseye because you could get 2000 loads plus per pound. And the “load” was a little yellow scoop that you scraped level with a card.
When I finally got a press, I was styling. But still took me longer to get a powder measure. My $18 Bonanza press, a set of non-carbide dies (carbide was for rich folk) and a scoop loaded thousands of rounds. Tens of thousands, probably.
I still have that little yellow scoop.
Don’t knock scraping off the scoop until you have tried it.
Sirhr
I still have a few sets of lee dies that came with them
I think the oldest set of dies i have are Pacific Durachrome in 30-06 they didnt come with a scooper though.
Knowing more details would be nice and all, but getting the hell outta there makes total sense to me.
If I just almost blew myself up in front of a bunch of people, the last thing I'd want to do would be to stick around and play 20 questions on why/how I was (probably) inept at doing what I was doing when I almost blew up.
If I just almost blew myself up in front of a bunch of people, the last thing I'd want to do would be to stick around and play 20 questions on why/how I was (probably) inept at doing what I was doing when I almost blew up.
In the early 1970’s, I was damn proud to have a yellow scoop that measured .25-06 loads and another that measured .243 loads. Unlike @sirhrmechanic I purchased the RCBS beam scale first to go along with my two red box Lee Loaders. After getting married, my sweet Brenda made sure we had an RCBS Jr. Press. Really made things easier.
The yellow scoop got me close and then I used a table spoon, dipping powder out of a bowl to balance the scale. A touch time consuming but I shot some great groups for those rifles in those days.
Clearly, you just don’t get into the spirit of getting blown up.
Nothing is more fun standing than around with one eyebrow and a smoldering BDU jacket saying… wow, that was WAY better than the last time!
Let me tell you about the time….
Sirhr
Sadly i could only put one crying laughing emoji.
You win the internet for the day.
I had a friend that blew up two Kelby actions, not sure which model they were. Wrong powder, twice.
As someone who lives in a condo, I have the scoops and the beam scale and a Lee Breech Lock Hand Press. It has worked so far for pistol rounds. Rifle rounds are in my to-do list.
-Stan
-Stan
Yeah i worked with a guy like that for awhile his name was Patrick but we called him Murphy.
So long as you knew his kill radius you were ok.
I one found a directional lens in pieces below my trucks rear bumper where it had clipped me. No damage to my truck but I scooped up the shards and took them home. When I was finished, I had reassembled it and had the make and model of the vehicle that hit me.
Another time I found a McDonalds bag of random car trash that had blown onto my lawn. For giggles, I wanted to see how much I could find out about the owner. I got his name, found a receipt that told me he had 10 grand in the bank and a I knew exactly where he would be in a week, from a dental appointment card……
Then I threw it all in the fireplace.Don’t you threaten us, with a good time…..
I have 2 stainless dual port Savage actions I use for FTR competition that I shoot at pressures most people shooting a .308 would cringe at. However, we all do it in FTR,
Either that was a POS action that was a problem to begin with, or a handloading cluster F!
Either that was a POS action that was a problem to begin with, or a handloading cluster F!
Primal Rights filled a 338 lapua case to the neck with N320 and fired it through a Desert Tech rifle. It contained it.
3:30 in the vid.
As you know I loved my Savage .308 that I started my precision rifle journey on (gone now). It was however, the only rifle I ever had the scope base come loose on.
To a certain extent, I agree with you on the Axis. They don`t " feel " as substantial to me as the 110. I have a 110 Storm in .223 that`s been a great rifle for me. I will say, though, that the most prevalent " traditional " hunting rifles at our state range has been the Axis II in various calibers. The ones I`ve seen shoot and appear to function well and the guys who I`ve talked to that own them seem to like them.
Savage and a Nikon...
Fucker did himself a favor
Fucker did himself a favor
We've had two customers blow up rifles with pistol powder in the past . One was an H&R single shot rifle it split the receiver . It had to be brutal holding that rifle when it popped. The other was a 700 Remington short action can't remember the caliber but it stayed together but was locked shut brass flowed back out the ejection port .
The H&R guys had a bad cut on the trigger finger other than that lived to talk about it .
The H&R guys had a bad cut on the trigger finger other than that lived to talk about it .
There was a nothing that says the action let go due to a single catastrophic event. It is entirely possible that the guy was above book max with an “appropriate” powder and the action let go due to too many high pressure rounds.
One of the main knocks on proof testing is that the proof load, while not destroying the firearm, DOES cause damaging stress to the firearm. The theory is that a proofed firearm is weaker than an unproofed firearm, due to the proofing process.
One of the main knocks on proof testing is that the proof load, while not destroying the firearm, DOES cause damaging stress to the firearm. The theory is that a proofed firearm is weaker than an unproofed firearm, due to the proofing process.
Ok guys! That is pretty scary. But here’s what I got going right now and I really need your guys input. Please take a look at this picture on the brass and the primer crater. I’m shooting 140 ELDM, R16, CCI BR4 primer, Lapua brass (3rd firing), 6.5 creed, 24” Proof 1:7.5 twist. Starting load was 42 gn with speed at 2840 fps, and max load was 44.8 at 3001 fps. My inspection on the cratering and the brass shows almost identical condition so I don’t know if they were both over pressured. Bolt lift on both loads are identical and normal. And based on what I read online, CCI primers tend to crater more than most primers. But the fact that I’m pushing a 140 grain at 3000 fps on a 24” barrel seems chillingly eerie. Please let me know if I’m still safe or if I’m in the kaboom zone. Shine in and keep it professional. Thank you!
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140 gr at 3000 fps out of a 24” 6.5 cm. One of those standard pressure snipers hide loads.Ok guys! That is pretty scary. But here’s what I got going right now and I really need your guys input. Please take a look at this picture on the brass and the primer crater. I’m shooting 140 ELDM, R16, CCI BR4 primer, Lapua brass (3rd firing), 6.5 creed, 24” Proof 1:7.5 twist. Starting load was 42 gn with speed at 2840 fps, and max load was 44.8 at 3001 fps. My inspection on the cratering and the brass shows almost identical condition so I don’t know if they were both over pressured. Bolt lift on both loads are identical and normal. And based on what I read online, CCI primers tend to crater more than most primers. But the fact that I’m pushing a 140 grain at 3000 fps on a 24” barrel seems chillingly eerie. Please let me know if I’m still safe or if I’m in the kaboom zone. Shine in and keep it professional. Thank you!
Where did you get 42 gr as a starting load? Thats a max load. 3000 fps is a zippy load out of a 6.5-284.
Both your cases show obvious excessive pressure. The BR-4 is a very strong primer.
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If he didn't have a flinch before he does now.
Thank you ! 42 and 44.8 were my starting and max loads, not the published numbers. Both of these loads gave me the best velocity nodes with single digit ES and SD but sounds like I’m in the danger zone so will need to go below 2800 fps to be within the safe pressure zone. Any other powder besides H4350 and R16 that you guys used to get the highest speed and still be under acceptable psi..?140 gr at 3000 fps out of a 24” 6.5 cm. One of those standard pressure snipers hide loads.
Where did you get 42 gr as a starting load? Thats a max load. 3000 fps is a zippy load out of a 6.5-284.
Both your cases show obvious excessive pressure. The BR-4 is a very strong primer.
That’s the funny part, everyone on the hide is a expert reloader140 gr at 3000 fps out of a 24” 6.5 cm. One of those standard pressure snipers hide loads.
Where did you get 42 gr as a starting load? Thats a max load. 3000 fps is a zippy load out of a 6.5-284.
Both your cases show obvious excessive pressure. The BR-4 is a very strong primer.
And magically they get more speed than Sammi/ ammo mfg but are still below max pressure
Newsflash, if your faster than factory, especially on newer cartridges …your above max pressure.
It’s really not that hard to understand
I reload easy two dozen different calibers. However I know the basics when I go out. Date loaded, powder type, bullet weight. I would know that unless the little bit of paper was "blown away". Back at the barn I have all the other jazz needed when I came back with my shooting notes on how everything did.
For me that a large run is 50 rounds, and it is not uncommon to do several different calibers in one session I use the below procedures. After finishing with cartridge 1 everything goes back into the cans/bottles. I turn off the scales, everything starts a zero again. This goes true if I am even loading the same cartridge with a different loading. I have several rifles of the same caliber, and those are broken out by the last 4 of the SN#. So powder could be the same and the bullet is the same, not a lot of choices for 6.5 Carcano. But everything is base zero.
Knock on wood no issues so far.
The only thing I load "hot" are some 38 and 357 loads for a Marlin lever rifle, those are labeled MARLIN LEVER ONLY DUMB ASS. So they don't go into one of my old 38 revolvers.
Glad everyone is ok.
Agreed. I know the basics. But even on SH when someone asks me “what load is that..?” The answer is “I’ll look it up for you and PM.” I have a thing about being careful posting loads… one typo away from making a bad day for someone.
Don’t get me wrong, the Interwebz are a great place to search for loads. But after getting one, even from you trusted crazoids on SH, verify in a book! Or two. Or on additional sites. Who knows when the “antis” will get the idea they can alter Load data online to cause mayhem. Bet it’s been tried by the same types who used to go to gun shows and randomly load guns on tables then cry “gun shows must be stopped.” It’s happened.
Except for a handful of test rounds for any one gun my minimum is 300 or so. Pistol or plinkers…. I won’t even get dies off the shelf for less than 500.
But, yeah… we know our basics.
That said, records should be ingrained in us!
Sirhr
You are assuming it worked when it came out of the box…
Is that BDC on the tube? One them fancy drop compensators? For hot handloads and 6.5?
Not the setup to play with hot handloads.
Sirhr
Mossberg fan, eh ?
I flat don't give out my loads, and that is where it ends. I also don't reload for anyone. I would bet at least twice a year someone will ask, hay do you reload 7.7 Jap, yup, would you load some up for me, nope, but I will stand there and help you do it.
In all my years I have had a grand total of ONE person say YOU WOULD DO THAT FOR ME?!?!? We used all my stuff in exchange for a lunch I am not sure if I ever got. He is now well off the deep end on reloading with several Dillon presses and just about everything you could imagine.
It did make me feel good, but most people just want to hand it to them with no effort on their part. Nope this is an exchange, I will teach you to fish, but not give you a fish.
I mean how did you come up with 42 gr as a start load? H4350 and RL16 are the best powders for the CM, one need not look further, forget the speed. Your load is going to be in the 40.5-41gr range (2750-2800 fps).
When your starting load goes faster than the max load should, its not time to celebrate, its time to stop and evaluate.
41gr of either powder won’t touch 2750 in a 26”. At least not with hornady or prime brass. I’ve loaded for Bartlein, rock creek, proof, and lothar walther barrel. It takes at least 42gr of either and a 26” barrel to get there with the brass I listed.
Maybe the difference is the lapua brass because even at 42gr, @Rockhurr is clearly over pressure and way to fast for a 140 and a 24” barrel.
He’s going 2840 with 42 gr. Lapua brass is adding pressure. Subtracting one grain will equal about 70 fps.
I agree completely. 2840 is far and above what he should be seeing. The cratered primers and light ejector stamps give it away even without the velocity numbers. I was just sharing what I see with my brass and powders. It’s the reason working up from a low number is a smart move. Components make a difference.
Nikon's don't die they retain the K yd stare for life .
I know someone mentioned two missing primers ,yet no one to my recollection commented on the remaining ; Which all look Normal .
Was it affirmed pistol powder or a squib load and No obstruction clearance ?. Experienced that once two benches away ,it definitely will command line attention .
I may be over pressured but I’m seeing this chart taken directly from Alliant’s website and they are loading 140’s past 42 grains… so
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In a Hornady case. That case seems to have more internal volume than yours. I don’t know for sure, but it’s very likely. With the same powder charge in both my hornady and prime brass, there is roughly a 25fps velocity decrease in the hornady from the lower pressure.I may be over pressured but I’m seeing this chart taken directly from Alliant’s website and they are loading 140’s past 42 grains… so
You also have to take into account the bullet. Notice that even at the same bullet weight, there is over a grain difference in the max load between the different projectiles. Components matter and you are definitely over pressure. You should probably be in the neighborhood of 2700fps with a 24” barrel.
Edit to add:
42.3gr of RL16 in a prime case with a 140gr eldm out of a 26” rock creek barrel gives me 2765 if I am remembering correctly. Same load is 2680 out of a 22” sako trg barrel. 41.9 grains of H4350 in the same case gives me right at 2750 in a 26” factory lothar walther desert tech barrel.
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Just my opinion but 3000fps from a 24" 6.5CM is smoking hot even with some of the magic powders like RL26 ( I use the phrase magic powder loosely since I have seen some of the velocities listed but have never neen any real pressure measuring equipment used during those tests )Ok guys! That is pretty scary. But here’s what I got going right now and I really need your guys input. Please take a look at this picture on the brass and the primer crater. I’m shooting 140 ELDM, R16, CCI BR4 primer, Lapua brass (3rd firing), 6.5 creed, 24” Proof 1:7.5 twist. Starting load was 42 gn with speed at 2840 fps, and max load was 44.8 at 3001 fps. My inspection on the cratering and the brass shows almost identical condition so I don’t know if they were both over pressured. Bolt lift on both loads are identical and normal. And based on what I read online, CCI primers tend to crater more than most primers. But the fact that I’m pushing a 140 grain at 3000 fps on a 24” barrel seems chillingly eerie. Please let me know if I’m still safe or if I’m in the kaboom zone. Shine in and keep it professional. Thank you!
Its also fairly well known that the Lapua small primer brass does a pretty good job of handling and concealing pressure signs.
I waited a long time before jumping in with the 6.5CM, actually not until Lapua offered brass for it and had a decade of reading and had no intentions of hot rodding and my 140gr speed limit ive stayed around 2800fps to just a little over with mostly temp stable powders.
Edit: The speed i quoted is from a 23" Bartlien barrel and 140 Hybrid that doesnt have as much bearing surface as the 140eldm.
I’m sure that you realize that there are few absolutes in Reloading, which is why the mantra of the reloader should always be start low and work up. There are so many things that can and will affect pressure and final velocity, that your statement is patently incorrect.
I have been using 40.8 gr H4350 in Prime cases and getting almost exactly 2750 in two different barrels, for years. One a 26” Bartlein and one a 26” Rock Creek. This is with large rifle primers. Cases lasted over twenty reloads before I retired them. Nary a split neck nor loose primer pocket was ever found.
I do however agree that a 140 gr projectile at 3000 fps in 6.5 Creedmoor is an anomaly that is immediately suspect as way too hot. I’ve seen them successfully launched at 2900, but then barrel life was half as much as with the consistent use of 2750 loads.
And your first 42 gr velocity was way faster than theirs was at near 44 grains. You should have stopped.I may be over pressured but I’m seeing this chart taken directly from Alliant’s website and they are loading 140’s past 42 grains… so
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