If you need some help with your L3I mags let me know. The newer Elite mag is also a huge step up and runs even better in the Curtis action.
- Thread starter DisplacedTexan
- Start date
If your gun won't feed and extract Lapua ammo it definitely has problems and was not set up correctly. If your pin fall is so heavy that it is deforming the Lapua case and causing it to stick, then your FP spring is too heavy. Actually your statement about a hard hitting FP in remfire is incorrect. You want just enough Pin fall for consistent ignition. NO more. No less. I have never heard anyone say Lapua brass was softer than anything else. All chambers aren't created equal! A correctly reamed Nevius chamber will feed shoot and extract Lapua ammo. It will even extract unfired Lapua since it has minimal bullet engraving.
I agree and I don't. It's true of all firing pin mechanisms that it should only hit as hard as it needs to. But I would rather that it err on the harder side, as I see light strikes in rimfire in cold weather all the time from some high end actions. And a good argument can be made for consistent ignition based on the firing pin strike. There's even some who believe you should reshape your firing pin to move it away from striking the outermost portion of the rim. I've seen RimX, Vudoo, and a CZ457 all struggle with light strikes shooting matches through the winter. I do agree there's such a thing as hitting too hard, I just don't know for certain that's the case.
I dont know that it's deforming the rim and causing it to stick. In looking for a reason for the sticking brass I thought it a possibility and mentioned it here in case someone has ever had that happen and wished to offer feedback. But its just a theory as the brass does look to be softer with the Lapua. It's the only difference I could find. But I may be missing something.
The Nevius chamber has .030 of bullet engagement. It will feed and extract an unfired round unless I cam the bolt down. At which point it won't extract it unfired. The chamber is cut to spec with the base of the cartridge at .073" from the datum face and .043" headspace. I've already gone over the reamer made for me by Manson, it all appears correct.
So it's a head scratcher as to what is going on here. It would be nice to tackle the feeding issue first and get a magazine tuned and running.
If you have any thoughts on what I should be looking at next, I would try them.
I dont know that it's deforming the rim and causing it to stick. In looking for a reason for the sticking brass I thought it a possibility and mentioned it here in case someone has ever had that happen and wished to offer feedback. But its just a theory as the brass does look to be softer with the Lapua. It's the only difference I could find. But I may be missing something.
The Nevius chamber has .030 of bullet engagement. It will feed and extract an unfired round unless I cam the bolt down. At which point it won't extract it unfired. The chamber is cut to spec with the base of the cartridge at .073" from the datum face and .043" headspace. I've already gone over the reamer made for me by Manson, it all appears correct.
So it's a head scratcher as to what is going on here. It would be nice to tackle the feeding issue first and get a magazine tuned and running.
If you have any thoughts on what I should be looking at next, I would try them.
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I confess to being a little disappointed in the two L3i mags I bought. I couldn't get them running reliably in my Bergara or this Curtis. Sometimes as I would pull the bolt back on my Bergara the underlying round would tip up out of the mag causing it to jam when I pushed the bolt forward.
I won't give up on them though, so if you have any set up tips I would gladly follow your advice and see if I can get them running. I'm not feeling warm and fuzzy over the Vudoo mags either. They seem pretty hit and miss. There's 8 or 9 guys running Vudoos in our PRS matches. Half of them run great, the other half wants to smash their rifles on the ground.
Ok. I just doubled checked my Nevius chambered Muller. Vudoo 360 action, .043 headspace. Bolt closes smooth with one finger and ejects a unfired lapua super long range round. Sounds like you have chamber issues . If bolt closure is smooth and doesn't take excessive effort then the chamber may be short and engraving the bullet more. You might check this by pulling a bullet and see if it will extract the unfired case. If it does then short chamber. If it doesn't then tight chamber. marks.
An unfired case with the bullet pulled slides in and out of the chamber quite easily. It seats completely in the chamber with no pressure and I can easily pull it out again with just my fingernail. There's no resistance at all.
So I'm short for some reason and the bullet is seating to the point I can't extract it unfired. But I'm still having extraction issues with fired rounds on a round or two in every 3 mags. Even though the chamber is not tight and the bullet is gone.
It's gone from extracting 100% of cheap ammo, but not extracting Lapua at all, to extracting about 95% of Lapua/SK after an extractor swap. My CZ457 shot lights out with an IBI Barrel with a Calfee 4 chamber and it started sticking. I swore up and down the chamber had an issue. Then I swapped bolts with a buddy and it went away. But of course CZ has nonexistant support for that platform and a new extractor can't be had to save your life.
It sounds to me like it should be extracting. I scratch my head that the cheap stuff that mics out to exactly the same everything has never had an issue
I have no idea why they are behaving differently.Lapua's rem is the thickest of the top 3 brands. Eley is the thinnest then RWS then Lapua. Remove the bolt and see if the extractor catches the rem of a lapua case and locks in completely. If it does I would decrease headspacing. If it doesn't I would look at the extractor and its tensioner.An unfired case with the bullet pulled slides in and out of the chamber quite easily. It seats completely in the chamber with no pressure and I can easily pull it out again with just my fingernail. There's no resistance at all.
So I'm short for some reason and the bullet is seating to the point I can't extract it unfired. But I'm still having extraction issues with fired rounds on a round or two in every 3 mags. Even though the chamber is not tight and the bullet is gone.
It's gone from extracting 100% of cheap ammo, but not extracting Lapua at all, to extracting about 95% of Lapua/SK after an extractor swap. My CZ457 shot lights out with an IBI Barrel with a Calfee 4 chamber and it started sticking. I swore up and down the chamber had an issue. Then I swapped bolts with a buddy and it went away. But of course CZ has nonexistant support for that platform and a new extractor can't be had to save your life.
It sounds to me like it should be extracting. I scratch my head that the cheap stuff that mics out to exactly the same everything has never had an issue
Here's the latest on feeding. It was finicky at first, but as suspected, it's not the action. Moreso the chassis.
It would feed great if I pressed on the bottom of the magazine forward of the center, but it wouldn't hang naturally that way. A buddy of mine says he has the same problem with his Vudoo, and he fixed it with a couple pieces of tape.
So I tried it, and all my magazines immediately ran. I've cycled about 150 rounds through without a single failure to feed.
The Lapua/SK does in fact feed into tje bolt when the bolt is out of the rifle. Chase reached out to me last week, but I was shooting a Pro Series match out of state and couldn't do much. But I'll get with him this week and we'll figure out the extractor. I think we're progressing along quite well with a new product. Get it extracting Lapua/SK and we're home.
It would feed great if I pressed on the bottom of the magazine forward of the center, but it wouldn't hang naturally that way. A buddy of mine says he has the same problem with his Vudoo, and he fixed it with a couple pieces of tape.
So I tried it, and all my magazines immediately ran. I've cycled about 150 rounds through without a single failure to feed.
The Lapua/SK does in fact feed into tje bolt when the bolt is out of the rifle. Chase reached out to me last week, but I was shooting a Pro Series match out of state and couldn't do much. But I'll get with him this week and we'll figure out the extractor. I think we're progressing along quite well with a new product. Get it extracting Lapua/SK and we're home.
So the latest update on the Curtis conversion..
I've been putting rounds through it for a bit now and the bugs are worked out. I shot a PRS Rimfire match today. It continues to cycle without issue now for a few hundred rounds and counting.
During zero I grouped a beautiful little 5 shot group at <.2 moa. It looked more like a single shot from a .308 than it did 5 shots from a .22 rimfire.
MCM Firearms in Nampa Idaho did a great job for me building this rifle, cerakoting the chassis, etc.
I've been putting rounds through it for a bit now and the bugs are worked out. I shot a PRS Rimfire match today. It continues to cycle without issue now for a few hundred rounds and counting.
During zero I grouped a beautiful little 5 shot group at <.2 moa. It looked more like a single shot from a .308 than it did 5 shots from a .22 rimfire.
MCM Firearms in Nampa Idaho did a great job for me building this rifle, cerakoting the chassis, etc.
Any of the Curtis sponsored guys shooting these yet? Or are they all shooting Vudoos and Rim-X's still?
I've spoken to Jake about it a couple times. He doesn't have one yet because there's no left hand version. Not sure if Jon has picked up the conversion. I've never really seen him participating in rimfire. I vaguely recall him talking about building a nice rimfire, but I think that was a couple years back.
Those are the only two I'm aware of that Chase is sponsoring.
Do you think you would run a 22lr conversion if this wasn't being sponsored?
How does this compare with the CZ you usually shoot?
I like the idea behind mutlicalibre rifles but kind of on the fence about a 22 conversion.
I feel like my 22lr is the one rifle I always take along to range sessions and that it warrants being a seperate rifle.
I worked with Chase on this 3 years ago. I think I have the the first working version. I had 1 of 1 for a long while. I used to shoot for Curtis and do my own smithing work so we did some experimenting with various extractor angles and tenon designs. I got mine working with a specific tenon design. Looks like thing mag insert is drastically different than the original and I see some changes to the bolt. Haven't heard from Chase in a couple of years, but glad to see the project is still going.
I'm not sponsored by Chase, so I have no skin in the game. I had an Axiom in my safe as I had stopped shooting the rifle I had built on that action and was trying to decide what I wanted to do with it next. The rimfire was brilliant as it coincided with me picking up a new Envy Pro. So I'm not playing favorites when I say I like it. I like it even more as it's breaking in. The action is smoothing out and it's beginning to run pretty well. And the Bartlien barrel is hammering. I just went 24" with a target crown, no muzzle threading. I got a great lot of SK Long Range Match that the barrel really likes.
I loved my CZ457. It absolutely hammered. I sold my original one but I like it so well I have an MTR on order. But I'm sponsored by XLR and they only had the Element chassis for the CZ, and I REALLY wanted the Envy. It was hard to balance the rear end heavy CZ with the Element chassis. But the Envy Pro loaded with weights is a perfect balance on a front bag. I had an IBI Barrel for the CZ and it shot dime shaped 10 round groups at 50 yards with boring consistency. So I'm excited to get another one to play with in a good old fashioned wooden stock.
I think it will be hard to break into the mainstream market share. If it performs for other people as well, I think we'll see more of them. I'm not a "switch barrel" kinda guy myself. But i still have a couple good 22BR barrels that fit that action. And I do think it adds value to the system. And it may be a big selling point to the next guy.
We have done a piles of these 22s now and are seeing amazing results across multiple brand barrels and twist rates. We actually have actions and barrels in stock.
Eagle Eye Precision does a lot of 22LR stuff on YouTube and when I asked his opinion on the conversion he said the following.
"...broken bolts. Headspacing only allows for .048", the bolt retracts as you cam over the bolt. The locking lug (if you want to call it) is prone for damage and being sheared off. The ejection molded aics adapter needs modification to fit any chassis other than MPA. Anyone that builds the barrel for this action as a cone breech is guaranteed to have metal shavings because the control round feeding geometry is trash. I can continue my list but I want to emphasize this is my opinion based off expirence and observation from 9 of these builds"
What are you take on some of these issues? I would absolutely love to have a valor quick change with this system so I can have a .22lr comp rifle set up and 6.5 PRC hunting set up. However...I don't want to spend 3k on an action, conversion, bolts and barrels if I'm looking at broken components
Saw that video, seems like that helps with reliability. Looks like the barrels would be about $1,125 for a prefit? Is that right?
Sounds like it which I think is wayyy too high. The Scout action with kit is $1050 direct from Curtis. That extra $1125-1148 for the barrel better be magical. $475 for the blank I get. But extra $650+ for CNC/lathe work is a little on the high end. But I don’t know jack about running CNC machines.
My two bits.... I've experienced none of that. Not sure what kind of forces he believes we're dealing with here that would shear off these hardened steel parts.
The AICS adapter fits just fine in my XLR Envy and Element.
I have a cone breech barrel, no metal shavings, and after some magazine tinkering that I've pretty much had to do with every custom bolt gun I have owned, the rifle feeds perfectly. I'm at nearly two bricks of ammo without a malfunction since my last posts. I doubt Chase tried to reinvent the wheel on feeding the rounds. I have a Bergara B-14 here and my buddies RimX has a cone breech that feeds very similarly. But I've seen some shooters struggle with those actions here and there. And I know he builds semi customs on that Bergara action a lot. I've seen Vudoos that the owners wanted to drag behind their truck by the end of the day. So I'm not sure what we're using for a base line here. I haven't seen a rimfire action that stands out above all the others.
I haven't had 9 of them. I've only had this one, and I've managed to get it running quite well and shooting fantastic with limited rimfire gunsmithing experience. Maybe he should start sending those clients to me
That's what I thought....but like you I'm not a CNC operator. I'm guessing that the extractor cuts are why it's that much
I shot them (DI) an email over the weekend asking how much it would cost to spin up a barrel if I provided everything. Haven’t heard back yet..
My two bits.... I've experienced none of that. Not sure what kind of forces he believes we're dealing with here that would shear off these hardened steel parts.
The AICS adapter fits just fine in my XLR Envy and Element.
I have a cone breech barrel, no metal shavings, and after some magazine tinkering that I've pretty much had to do with every custom bolt gun I have owned, the rifle feeds perfectly. I'm at nearly two bricks of ammo without a malfunction since my last posts. I doubt Chase tried to reinvent the wheel on feeding the rounds. I have a Bergara B-14 here and my buddies RimX has a cone breech that feeds very similarly. But I've seen some shooters struggle with those actions here and there. And I know he builds semi customs on that Bergara action a lot. I've seen Vudoos that the owners wanted to drag behind their truck by the end of the day. So I'm not sure what we're using for a base line here. I haven't seen a rimfire action that stands out above all the others.
I haven't had 9 of them. I've only had this one, and I've managed to get it running quite well and shooting fantastic with limited rimfire gunsmithing experience. Maybe he should start sending those clients to me
Glad to hear it's going strong. Thanks for the update! I think I will pull the trigger on this in the next few months. How much was the conversion on black friday?
Let me know what they say if you don't mind...I'm curious
We have plenty of experience doing the Curtis scout and valor conversion 22s we don’t see a headspace issue at all. Infact we test all of our 22s with Lapua and Eley ammo. We don’t just test for reliability but also accuracy. I think the Curtis platform when done right is very smooth and a absolute pleasure to shoot.
We’ve seen some slight modification needed for the mag adaptor with certain chassis or stocks but this is typically something we take care of at the shop.
We recently built a indoor testing range just to eliminate the vast amount of wind conditions we get at the shop, allowing us to test everyday now. Please feel free to call the shop if we don’t get back to you quickly enough on here.
We’ve seen some slight modification needed for the mag adaptor with certain chassis or stocks but this is typically something we take care of at the shop.
We recently built a indoor testing range just to eliminate the vast amount of wind conditions we get at the shop, allowing us to test everyday now. Please feel free to call the shop if we don’t get back to you quickly enough on here.
I just wanted to revive this thread to get any updated feedback from the conversion kit users. I have a kit ordered and wondering which way to go. Coned breach or DI’s treatment. Six of one half a dozen of the other?
Zero issues with the cone breach. Once I got the mags dialed and and adjusted, feeding is excellent.
My only hiccup has been extraction with Lapua/SK ammo. But Chase redesigned the extractor and I've had no issues since.
I'm a few bricks into this build. Accuracy is phenomenal (my most accurate rimfire), reliability is very good. I like the 60 degree throw. I think its a great build.
Does anybody know if this would work in a Terminus action?
Awesome to hear. I’m waiting for Curtis to call/email me back to order the valor qc with the conversion.
Thanks for the update. I’m sure all his kits going forward have been updated. Any way of telling new from old?
To the best of my knowledge, the only thing that has evolved is the shape of the extractor. Side by side you may be able to see a difference, but not while it's on the bolt.
Chase sent me several of the newly designed extractors. They are easy to swap. I'm super glad to have extras. It irritated me to no end that I couldn't get parts for my CZ457. I wore out the extractor on it, and no one I spoke to could get me a new one.
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Thanks again. And is it safe to assume your smith followed the tenon print to the T and didn’t have to make any adjustments? I don’t want any gotchas later on.
Very safe to assume. We poured over the print ad nauseum. My gunsmith was super careful with this one and pretty much hit on all cylinders with it using the Nevius reamer. We just followed all the instructions.
Could you quantify " my most accurate rimfire" ?
Is that v. Vudoo, Rim-X, Bergara, CZ, all the above?
Thanks!
Chase just called me back. Valor QC in route to the smith. I’ll make sure to post how everything goes
That's a CZ457 with an IBI Barrel. A Bergara with an IBI barrel. And a RimX with a 22" Benchmark.
Crazily enough, the CZ was the most accurate of those three. Super consistent. The other two had similar accuracy, but the RimX was finicky about ammo.
Not a huge difference mind you. All of these rifles performed well in PRS/NRL Rimfire comps. My Curtis puts up slightly tighter groups on a 5x5 and just performs well at 200 plus.
Glad to hear it, I don't think you will be disappointed at all.
Do you know when Chase made the change to the extractors? If i have the early version i'll call and order a replacement set. I haven't had any issue yet but better safe than sorry and i've run mostly eley.
I'm not sure what the timeline is for any extractor updates.
It seemed like a lot of folks were extracting just fine. Perhaps my chamber contributed to extractor issues other folks weren't experiencing.
It seemed like a lot of folks were extracting just fine. Perhaps my chamber contributed to extractor issues other folks weren't experiencing.
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Doing great with this rifle. Won a PRS22 match on Saturday. Dropped 8 out of 96, finished 5 shots ahead of second.
This action has become very smooth. Really enjoying it and feeling a lot of confidence in it.
This action has become very smooth. Really enjoying it and feeling a lot of confidence in it.
I picked up my Curtis today. Won’t have time to make it to the range today but the extractor did not want to extract Eley ammo. Mind you this is just hand cycling. I shot Chase an email so I’ll see what he says. Maybe it’ll be different when I actually fire a round. Works fine with everything else.
Good to know. My RimX always extracted live rounds so I was in slight panic mode today.Mine doesn't extract unfired ammo either.
Some do, some don't. Most quality match chambers don't extract until the round is fired. It depends on the dimensions. My chamber engraves the bullet about .030". No way it's coming out of there unfired
On a side note, is there a bore guide for this that will clear the ejector?
I lucked out on my throw down XRS stock. The polymer Vudoo mags lock in pretty tight with little to no slop. I was concerned because it doesn’t have an adjustment mag catch.
Fingers crossed there is no issue with the KRG chassis
