- Thread starter ut755ln
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Tents and porpoises…'for all tense and purposes'
Did the 2 lamps double the value of that shanty? Those chairs look like they were stolen from a Love's truck stop waiting area. Might as well just have that rifle be a paperweight for your phone book size wad of food stamps. Why you no have koi pond??
I can't quite place is, but it looks like there's something off about their lower in the trigger/magwell area. Not sure if its the grip or what. It's their lower too right? Who makes the rail?
I saw some takeoff M110 sass scope mounts on gunbroker & midwayusa has some of the FDE leupolds. Hopefully yours works fine.
A couple things kinda stand out at me compared to an actual M110. The reinforcing rib is pretty chunky and makes the lower look a bit squished; the integrated trigger guard looks like it has a funky radius cut, especially without the ambi-release.
TBH I was kinda looking forward to seeing these but I suppose my wallet will just remain a bit heavier for now.
from my own experience, I know that the PSA PA-10 upper receiver bore is just a little bit lower than a DPMS LR-308 receiver bore.
if you put a stripped PA-10 upper on a DPMS lower receiver, and look down the receiver bore, you'll see that the buffer tube hole is not concentric with the receiver bore, maybe about .050" or maybe 1/16" vertical offset.
I wonder if they changed that for the Sabre M110 look-alike, so that it is dimensionally compatible with the rest of the world?
although, some folks have slapped their PA-10 uppers onto a DPMS lower, and said it works, "gud enuf".
if you put a stripped PA-10 upper on a DPMS lower receiver, and look down the receiver bore, you'll see that the buffer tube hole is not concentric with the receiver bore, maybe about .050" or maybe 1/16" vertical offset.
I wonder if they changed that for the Sabre M110 look-alike, so that it is dimensionally compatible with the rest of the world?
although, some folks have slapped their PA-10 uppers onto a DPMS lower, and said it works, "gud enuf".
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Tripled it actually. Took it from $10 to $33/ month. And Shhhhh Loves hasn’t figured it out yet, they still let me in their showers every second Tuesday of the month out of pitty
And what the hell is a Koi? It sounds like a fish that doesn’t come in sticks. 
The lower does look a bit off. I’ve seen a pic of someone who replaced the pistol grip with a standard A2 and it looked much better. Other than that, I agree that the integrated trigger guard has a weird shape.
Firing pin broke, Firing Pin Retaining Pin bent, dropped-in his KAC 14.5” 6.5CM BCG and tried to get it to work but it continued to have malfs and spit out a 3rd burst.
As long as you don’t shoot it much, it should be fine.
Meanwhile ArmaLite DEF-10s are $1111 and they work. I’ve seen 16” ArmaLite carbines run through extreme cold courses in Finland and never skip a beat. 20” and 24” guns ran fine too. One of the guys had a barrel smith at SAKO make him a hammer-forged 6.5-284 Norma for his, which was a fun rifle to shoot out past 1100m.
These PSAs appear to be FDE-coated boat anchors. ArmaLite, KAC, LMT, DD, and Savage all pyramid-tested their rifles.
As long as you don’t shoot it much, it should be fine.
Meanwhile ArmaLite DEF-10s are $1111 and they work. I’ve seen 16” ArmaLite carbines run through extreme cold courses in Finland and never skip a beat. 20” and 24” guns ran fine too. One of the guys had a barrel smith at SAKO make him a hammer-forged 6.5-284 Norma for his, which was a fun rifle to shoot out past 1100m.
These PSAs appear to be FDE-coated boat anchors. ArmaLite, KAC, LMT, DD, and Savage all pyramid-tested their rifles.
I'll give PSA credit for one thing, I don't think they themselves have called this an M110-clone, I think that trend started with guntubers who immediately label firearms a clone of a military counterpart if it possesses the faintest of similarities. It's funny, nobody is calling the black Sabre AR-10 a SR-25 clone...
I thought maybe it had headspace/pressure issues since they likely do not use a high pressure bolt and then who knows how good they are at headspacing all of their rifles.
The tail of the bolt fitment to the carrier is a gas seal. If it's out of spec, gas can leak though and push on the collar of the firing pin, then the collar bends the pin. It can also be an over-speed BCG when it slams against the rear of the RE.
The bore pressure duration of longer .308 Win (think 175gr SMK) and anything 6.5CM place a lot of stress on primers and the firing pin tip.
If the firing pin aperture on the bolt is in the .086” region like most large frame guns, you can get a lot of blanking that looks like cratering, and significant firing pin backlash that will show up as bent Firing Pin Retaining Pins.
I went through this with my .260 Rem gasser when chasing the upper end of loads even with 123gr and 130gr bullets. I bent at least 3 FPRPs. 60,000-63,000psi peak pressure is trying to escape by any path available to it, so primers can act like little pistons against the firing pin and its aperture. Due to gas gun slop, especially with factory ammunition that has very generous shoulder locations well away from the shoulder in the chamber, you will experience a lot of primer piston effect too without crimped primers.
You might even see dropped primers.
Especially with large frame guns, you start to see how important the ammunition specs are for timing so peak chamber pressure, residual bore pressure pre-gas port, port pressure, and plug-dwell time are. It’s unrealistic to expect reliable performance with a wide range of ammunition.
For the VISMOD-10 companies who only chase price point with the false appearance of value, they haven’t even done pyramid-testing with a known spec ammunition using 100,000 rounds across 10 prototype rifles to explore all their failure points and correcting them.
They also will never see equivalent data by beta-testing on the customers because customers will experience their failures within the 1st mag up through 1500 rounds, and almost none of the customers know how to correctly diagnose their malfunctions.
At best, you have a conversation piece that might go bang occasionally.
If the firing pin aperture on the bolt is in the .086” region like most large frame guns, you can get a lot of blanking that looks like cratering, and significant firing pin backlash that will show up as bent Firing Pin Retaining Pins.
I went through this with my .260 Rem gasser when chasing the upper end of loads even with 123gr and 130gr bullets. I bent at least 3 FPRPs. 60,000-63,000psi peak pressure is trying to escape by any path available to it, so primers can act like little pistons against the firing pin and its aperture. Due to gas gun slop, especially with factory ammunition that has very generous shoulder locations well away from the shoulder in the chamber, you will experience a lot of primer piston effect too without crimped primers.
You might even see dropped primers.
Especially with large frame guns, you start to see how important the ammunition specs are for timing so peak chamber pressure, residual bore pressure pre-gas port, port pressure, and plug-dwell time are. It’s unrealistic to expect reliable performance with a wide range of ammunition.
For the VISMOD-10 companies who only chase price point with the false appearance of value, they haven’t even done pyramid-testing with a known spec ammunition using 100,000 rounds across 10 prototype rifles to explore all their failure points and correcting them.
They also will never see equivalent data by beta-testing on the customers because customers will experience their failures within the 1st mag up through 1500 rounds, and almost none of the customers know how to correctly diagnose their malfunctions.
At best, you have a conversation piece that might go bang occasionally.
I haven't handled any of the mags, but D&H makes green followers just like the PSA supplied ones.
I have been told, the forged lowers are the same as the PSA Gen III lowers. ( And will completely interchange with the PSA various Gen Uppers )kinda curious if the lower receiver, the buffer tube mount upright, has those bolt carrier clearance cuts that PSA does. for either the slant-cut, or the round DPMS cut. a PSA unique thing, I think.
FWIW... the center pin is the out of spec one from one of mine... note the curved part at the collar, instead of the sharp are on the right hand one.
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I can see where the "curved" part would damage the retaining pin.
For what it's worth - I've fixed upper problems with two other manufacturer's AR10 BCGs by substituting them for PSA BCGs.
Not sure what the motivation is. Their A1 rifles are a mix and match of whatever they have on hand, plus some A2 lowers marked A1, their grays are black, and the blacks are blems, their Mk12 rifles (new) are a hodgepodge of quality and inferior parts. The M110 clone is just not ready for prime time, from what I hear. Granted, I am a little on the critical side, but I think there is a place for a budget "almost clone" rifle. It just takes a little more thought, a little more attention to detail, and not rushing a product out the door.
On one hand, you can sit back, and say, "what the fuck you expect from PSA?" On the other hand, they have acquired brand names like H&R, DPMS, and assets and people from NODAK and AAC, and then bought a BCG company and started an ammo company, so there are signs of life, and great respect for what Jamin is trying to build, but as an expert in the field, and having spent some time with the guys in charge, it is not going well. And, the AAC ammo seems to have gone from a wunderkind to a major disappointment in the higher grain 5.56mm.
It might just be like when VW purchased Lamborghini and Audi, and tried to standardize and economize on some engine parts. (That did not go well).
On one hand, you can sit back, and say, "what the fuck you expect from PSA?" On the other hand, they have acquired brand names like H&R, DPMS, and assets and people from NODAK and AAC, and then bought a BCG company and started an ammo company, so there are signs of life, and great respect for what Jamin is trying to build, but as an expert in the field, and having spent some time with the guys in charge, it is not going well. And, the AAC ammo seems to have gone from a wunderkind to a major disappointment in the higher grain 5.56mm.
It might just be like when VW purchased Lamborghini and Audi, and tried to standardize and economize on some engine parts. (That did not go well).
"Meanwhile ArmaLite DEF-10s are $1111 and they work. I’ve seen 16” ArmaLite carbines run through extreme cold courses in Finland and never skip a beat. 20” and 24” guns ran fine too. One of the guys had a barrel smith at SAKO make him a hammer-forged 6.5-284 Norma for his, which was a fun rifle to shoot out past 1100m."
FWIW, I will never understand this attitude. Especially when you go OCONUS and see it being consistently used. Bias shouldn't play any part in selection. Facts, testing and actual hard use, should. I've had some ArmaLite rifles that have been absolute reliable tanks.
FWIW, I will never understand this attitude. Especially when you go OCONUS and see it being consistently used. Bias shouldn't play any part in selection. Facts, testing and actual hard use, should. I've had some ArmaLite rifles that have been absolute reliable tanks.
Can you elaborate more on this issue? I’ve seen some things here and there on jacket separation but even the stuff with Sierra projectiles?
It’s really weird to see all the hipsters focusing on all these brands looking for reliability, and never mention ArmaLite (1996-forward Eagle Arms ArmaLite, not the original Hollywood CA ArmaLite Division of Fairchild).
I have no dog in this fight, no connection to any of the large frame companies, just relate what I’ve seen with the .308s/.260s/6.5CMs I’ve experienced since the 1990s. Keep in mind I never thought we would see the day when AR-10s would be produced again for either civilians or military, so when I saw the articles and ads for the KAC SR-25 Match Rifles and 20” guns, I couldn’t believe it. I was ecstatic.
Then the Clinton/Biden/Feinstein Crime Bill/AWB was passed in 1994, right as KAC introduced a limited run of 100 SR-25K carbines. Any hopes of acquiring a large frame .308 Stoner pattern rifle seemed fleeting to a young PFC getting paid $969.90 before taxes, CFC, SGLI, SSA, etc.
But then Eagle Arms acquired the ArmaLite name from Elisco Tool & Machine in the Philippines, and made an SR-25 that ran on modified M-14 mags since it was the most reliable surplus magazine in the US, with a lot of availability.
I got one of those with a primary emphasis on long-range shooting. Sucker was a 1/3 minute gun with FGMM, couldn’t believe it, and didn’t know that until I sold it to either the AG or assistant AG of North Carolina.
If you look at the pedigree behind the Mark Westrom/David Doerbeck/Carl Lewis AR-10s, which were reverse-engineered with a lot of notes taken from the early KAC SR-25s, those were and are superbly-engineered and built rifles.
When I went over to Finland in 2005, a lot of guys there owned them, which was surprising. They imported quite a few of them, along with many AR-15s. I got the chance from 2005-2016 to see how these rifles performed in high-volume shoot courses, to include in extreme cold weather that you might only find in North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Alaska. The ArmaLite AR-10Ts and 16” carbines just ran like tops, very slick actions, smooth cycling, reliable.
It’s crazy to me today that you have all these imitation rifles made by late-comer companies to the large frame AR world, that are not tested, not well-engineered, no ownership of the critical core components (BCGs especially), being sold for more than an ArmaLite DEF-10.
If you have to have a .308 gasser that works, I would start there at that price point. I would not mess around with VISMOD-10s from the usual suspects. Some will say that Aero made ArmaLite’s receivers. OK, but ArmaLite took ownership and responsibility over the entire gun, with certain specs that have to be met. They have sprung firing pins, excellent carriers and bolts, extensions, and barrels. They started the longer carbine-length RETs that were later called “A5” by VLTOR, when both KAC and DPMS were still having a lot of reliability problems with AR-15 carbine-length RETs and tiny mini buffers.
I don’t own any ArmaLite AR-10s anymore, and I’m not really enamored with large-frame guns due to all their cons that rarely outweigh their pros, but just telling what I’ve seen. Any time you see Carl Lewis and David Doerbeck collaborating on a firearm, it’s wise to take notice. The results of those efforts speak for themselves.
I'm amazed, with all the qc and known issues by PSA, why anyone would buy from them
It's my opinion that most of the "issues" with PSA or Ruger or Sig or anybody else - is simply humans being humans and going out of their way to talk shit about things they don't have the faintest clue about - simply because somebody else is talking shit about it.
I have quite a few LFAR's ( and AR15's ) from PSA, so far I haven't personally experienced any of the "PSA" issues.
And , Frankly, the fact that PSA still has an active forum at ARF, speaks volumes to me. They haven't left the forum ever.. and will address issues , so people can see any issues.
Lots of other manufacturers left their Industry Forum, so I never get to see their issues.
My original reason for buying a PA-10 was the cost. It was the easiest way into the LFAR market.
Since then they have multiplied just like any AR.
Is PSA the beat all manufacturer ? Nah... , for me they make economical priced products. Heck I remember when Bushmaster was considered a lowly bargain product.
I will say they are very pro-active in producing firearm products, as an example, no one else made an ammo plant during the shortages.
PSA isn't the bad company lots of people like to make it out to be.
The worse things I have seen on any of my PSA products have been.... a faulty Toolcraft firing pin the collar's were rounded( from the original Toolcraft ) and that led to a bend FP retaining pin.
And a loose A2 muzzle device...
Thats from about a dozen complete uppers, and quite a few complete PSA rifles.
Given the bargain prices... I can fix those issues myself. And tend to check all brand assm. prior to use.
All this said, I am not ignoring other folks issues. I have seen / read about "off center" front sight towers, barrel nuts tightened by Thor himself, and various other issues.
I would like to try the PSA "M110" version... MAC had outstanding accuracy from his.
I don't know if I will buy one, as I can assemble a PSA into a great shooter using my choice of parts ( and have )
I am going to give Jamin kudos... he started selling Magpul mags from his garage... and now is the 3rd largest producer of firearms and parts.
Thats pretty impressive to me. So he and PSA must be doing something right.
And , Frankly, the fact that PSA still has an active forum at ARF, speaks volumes to me. They haven't left the forum ever.. and will address issues , so people can see any issues.
Lots of other manufacturers left their Industry Forum, so I never get to see their issues.
My original reason for buying a PA-10 was the cost. It was the easiest way into the LFAR market.
Since then they have multiplied just like any AR.
Is PSA the beat all manufacturer ? Nah... , for me they make economical priced products. Heck I remember when Bushmaster was considered a lowly bargain product.
I will say they are very pro-active in producing firearm products, as an example, no one else made an ammo plant during the shortages.
PSA isn't the bad company lots of people like to make it out to be.
The worse things I have seen on any of my PSA products have been.... a faulty Toolcraft firing pin the collar's were rounded( from the original Toolcraft ) and that led to a bend FP retaining pin.
And a loose A2 muzzle device...
Thats from about a dozen complete uppers, and quite a few complete PSA rifles.
Given the bargain prices... I can fix those issues myself. And tend to check all brand assm. prior to use.
All this said, I am not ignoring other folks issues. I have seen / read about "off center" front sight towers, barrel nuts tightened by Thor himself, and various other issues.
I would like to try the PSA "M110" version... MAC had outstanding accuracy from his.
I don't know if I will buy one, as I can assemble a PSA into a great shooter using my choice of parts ( and have )
I am going to give Jamin kudos... he started selling Magpul mags from his garage... and now is the 3rd largest producer of firearms and parts.
Thats pretty impressive to me. So he and PSA must be doing something right.
well your opinion would be wrong
that's why psa has rep trolling reddit forums for psa comments and issues
we all know about arfcom
I guess the posts, with pics, of psa qc is just opinion as well
I guess the psa forum page with all the complaints is just opinion
I guess personal experience is just opinion
look, you want to buy cheap than rock on but don't be upset when someone calls you a fool, cheap bastard, or dumb for buying down in a market when you should be buying up.
to even attempt a rebuttle would mean your pussy is hurt over your purchase, nothing said is not factual
You can call my opinion wrong.
Who gives a fuck what you think of my opinion.
Humans LOVE to bitch and complain about most everything.
You sound vaccinated.
Experiences usually dictate a persons opinion on the product.
Relax.
PSA isn’t perfect no one is claiming so. In fact they’re far from it. But as I’ve said before it’s in our best interest that they succeed. I want nothing more than for that Mock M110 to work flawlessly. Or them blow open the ammo market with affordable match ammo forcing competition in the market.
Relax.
PSA isn’t perfect no one is claiming so. In fact they’re far from it. But as I’ve said before it’s in our best interest that they succeed. I want nothing more than for that Mock M110 to work flawlessly. Or them blow open the ammo market with affordable match ammo forcing competition in the market.
MAC had outstanding accuracy from his.
110SASS had 1.75-3 MOA patterns.
Weird. Maybe PSA sent MAC a hand-picked rifle, while 110SASS acquired one on his own?
Same with the T.Rex Arms video on the Aero M5, where they went out of their way to get a non cherry-picked influencer special and it spit turds repeatedly, didn’t make it past 1500rds due to broken critical parts.
You can make a reliable, accurate AR-10 if you conduct pyramid-testing and have a superb total quality management culture in the company that enforces adhering to the data set for all metallurgy, processes, and dimensions.
Or you can send out cherry-picked rifles to known influencers who charge a fee for reviewing your sample product, then beta-test on customers for 5 years or more.
That said, MAC calls out a turd when one comes across his review, but he can’t control if it was cherry-picked or not. He rarely does high-volume shoot schedules either, like some of the other channels.
MAC was using a higher Zoom more precision oriented scope. SASS was using an LPVO, while not saying the rifle didn't have issues it def did, maybe that is part of the larger group equation.
Even my dad's Armalite AR-10 was ammo picky, it didn't like M-80, was under gassed wouldn't cycle right. But ran just fine on any FGGM 168/175, Hornady Match or my own hand loads I ran through it. It bothered him. As a kid i didn't know any better. About a year ago I got him to pull it out of the safe after about 15 years of not being fired. First shots he goes an loads up some GGG M-80. Won't cycle... I was like, why are you shooting that stuff when you have a stock pile of match .308 and my hand loads. Ran the latter for the rest of the session and it didn't have another issue out of it.
I also wondered if MAC may have gotten a "cherry-picked" one.
I can only hope future results are more oriented towards MAC's results. If they are, that's good for all of us bargain shooters.
I also can't help but wonder , if some of the function issues in the other video, while using the KAC BCG , could be attributed to the KAC bolt face.
KAC 308 bolt face.
I can only hope us average folk could get one like MAC's ... at a bargain price
Early KAC 308 Bolt face photo ? ..
If so they might not play well with the "typical" AR squared locking lugs used by PSA ( and others. )
Anyway... seems odd a KAC 308 BCG was having issues.
I would like to see the review again with a PSA 308 BCG.
Well, I’m freshly back from the range with an update on my Sabre.
I’ll just come right out and say it. I’m fairly disappointed in the rifle. The magazines that the rifle comes with cause failures to feed on almost every round. Almost like the rifle is under-gassed. I used Dura Mags both 5 and 10 round with no issues aside from my next discovery.
The rifle absolutely hated almost all of the ammo I cycled through it today. The best group I got was with S&B 168gr HPBT. It was grouping almost in the same hole until two consecutive fliers opened the 5 shot group to just over 1moa.
Aside from that single group, every single other group was well over 2moa. The second best group was 2.5moa with PMC Bronze of all ammo. The rifle despised the Hornady 155gr AMAX, and would not group better than 3 moa in over 50 rounds. The PMC Bronze was also all over the place and would give 2.5” groups then 4” groups. I’m not sure what is up with this rifle but the accuracy is complete shit. All shooting was completed while prone from a very stable position with almost no wind today.
The next issue I ran into occured when I attempted to run soft point Winchester ammo through the rifle. I wish I hat gotten a picture of the failure, but the very first round recoiled so hard that the shell casing got jammed as the bold cycled forward and trapped the casing 180° in the opposite direction. This destroyed the casing and caused a double feed at the same time. I cleared the malfunction and lowered the gas setting before firing a second round. The second round blew the primer into the magazine and double fed causing another failure. The bolt did not return home completely and when I pulled the bolt back, the round was not grabbed by the extractor and left the round in the chamber. I sent the bolt home hard and fired the round which once again sent the primer flying. All three casings had lost primers and the extractor had made a dent in the case head. Photos below.
This issue was not experienced with any other ammunition, and the rounds that remained in the magazine during each failure were badly dented and gouged. I ceased any further firing with that ammunition and disposed of the damaged rounds.
Overall guys, the function of the rifle is a non-issue in my case. But the accuracy is absolutely unacceptable. I did not clean or lubricate the rifle prior to my testing, I just took the rifle out of the box and began shooting.
I am in a pickle about how to proceed. I’m wondering if the specific ammo I chose is just not what this rifle likes, or if there is an internal or spec issue that is causing this horrendous accuracy. If the gun would group well, I’d be more than pleased. It cycled well and worked great (aside from he soft-points) and looks hella cool too. I’m hoping I can find a solution. At this point however, I would wait to purchase one until all of the kinks have been worked out by PSA.
I’ll just come right out and say it. I’m fairly disappointed in the rifle. The magazines that the rifle comes with cause failures to feed on almost every round. Almost like the rifle is under-gassed. I used Dura Mags both 5 and 10 round with no issues aside from my next discovery.
The rifle absolutely hated almost all of the ammo I cycled through it today. The best group I got was with S&B 168gr HPBT. It was grouping almost in the same hole until two consecutive fliers opened the 5 shot group to just over 1moa.
Aside from that single group, every single other group was well over 2moa. The second best group was 2.5moa with PMC Bronze of all ammo. The rifle despised the Hornady 155gr AMAX, and would not group better than 3 moa in over 50 rounds. The PMC Bronze was also all over the place and would give 2.5” groups then 4” groups. I’m not sure what is up with this rifle but the accuracy is complete shit. All shooting was completed while prone from a very stable position with almost no wind today.
The next issue I ran into occured when I attempted to run soft point Winchester ammo through the rifle. I wish I hat gotten a picture of the failure, but the very first round recoiled so hard that the shell casing got jammed as the bold cycled forward and trapped the casing 180° in the opposite direction. This destroyed the casing and caused a double feed at the same time. I cleared the malfunction and lowered the gas setting before firing a second round. The second round blew the primer into the magazine and double fed causing another failure. The bolt did not return home completely and when I pulled the bolt back, the round was not grabbed by the extractor and left the round in the chamber. I sent the bolt home hard and fired the round which once again sent the primer flying. All three casings had lost primers and the extractor had made a dent in the case head. Photos below.
This issue was not experienced with any other ammunition, and the rounds that remained in the magazine during each failure were badly dented and gouged. I ceased any further firing with that ammunition and disposed of the damaged rounds.
Overall guys, the function of the rifle is a non-issue in my case. But the accuracy is absolutely unacceptable. I did not clean or lubricate the rifle prior to my testing, I just took the rifle out of the box and began shooting.
I am in a pickle about how to proceed. I’m wondering if the specific ammo I chose is just not what this rifle likes, or if there is an internal or spec issue that is causing this horrendous accuracy. If the gun would group well, I’d be more than pleased. It cycled well and worked great (aside from he soft-points) and looks hella cool too. I’m hoping I can find a solution. At this point however, I would wait to purchase one until all of the kinks have been worked out by PSA.
there is a reason why psa has someone on ar15.com, reddit and other boards. Friends don't let friends buy psaWell, I’m freshly back from the range with an update on my Sabre.
I’ll just come right out and say it. I’m fairly disappointed in the rifle. The magazines that the rifle comes with cause failures to feed on almost every round. Almost like the rifle is under-gassed. I used Dura Mags both 5 and 10 round with no issues aside from my next discovery.
The rifle absolutely hated almost all of the ammo I cycled through it today. The best group I got was with S&B 168gr HPBT. It was grouping almost in the same hole until two consecutive fliers opened the 5 shot group to just over 1moa.
Aside from that single group, every single other group was well over 2moa. The second best group was 2.5moa with PMC Bronze of all ammo. The rifle despised the Hornady 155gr AMAX, and would not group better than 3 moa in over 50 rounds. The PMC Bronze was also all over the place and would give 2.5” groups then 4” groups. I’m not sure what is up with this rifle but the accuracy is complete shit. All shooting was completed while prone from a very stable position with almost no wind today.
The next issue I ran into occured when I attempted to run soft point Winchester ammo through the rifle. I wish I hat gotten a picture of the failure, but the very first round recoiled so hard that the shell casing got jammed as the bold cycled forward and trapped the casing 180° in the opposite direction. This destroyed the casing and caused a double feed at the same time. I cleared the malfunction and lowered the gas setting before firing a second round. The second round blew the primer into the magazine and double fed causing another failure. The bolt did not return home completely and when I pulled the bolt back, the round was not grabbed by the extractor and left the round in the chamber. I sent the bolt home hard and fired the round which once again sent the primer flying. All three casings had lost primers and the extractor had made a dent in the case head. Photos below.
This issue was not experienced with any other ammunition, and the rounds that remained in the magazine during each failure were badly dented and gouged. I ceased any further firing with that ammunition and disposed of the damaged rounds.
Overall guys, the function of the rifle is a non-issue in my case. But the accuracy is absolutely unacceptable. I did not clean or lubricate the rifle prior to my testing, I just took the rifle out of the box and began shooting.
I am in a pickle about how to proceed. I’m wondering if the specific ammo I chose is just not what this rifle likes, or if there is an internal or spec issue that is causing this horrendous accuracy. If the gun would group well, I’d be more than pleased. It cycled well and worked great (aside from he soft-points) and looks hella cool too. I’m hoping I can find a solution. At this point however, I would wait to purchase one until all of the kinks have been worked out by PSA.
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sorry you are experiencing this
1 1/4" with that SB ammo and 3" with that PMC ammo is what I would expect.
That hunting ammo is overpressure for that rifle/soft point tips might have jammed.
Set the gas block using your 150gr PMC and then try a box of federal match 168/175 off a bagged rest or using a lead sled to establish a baseline.
That hunting ammo is overpressure for that rifle/soft point tips might have jammed.
Set the gas block using your 150gr PMC and then try a box of federal match 168/175 off a bagged rest or using a lead sled to establish a baseline.
There will always be a market for budget options. But, counterintuitively, when you buy budget you must be more risk tolerant and willing to troubleshoot than when you buy premium.
That said, Federal Gold Medal Match ammunition should be the standard testing and troubleshooting load for any new/problematic 308 rifle.
That said, Federal Gold Medal Match ammunition should be the standard testing and troubleshooting load for any new/problematic 308 rifle.
I've had stellar luck with the Hornady SuperFormance in everything.... but you pay for it vs M80 MilSurp ammo.
Maybe it is being downloaded from when it was introduced, but there was a time when even Hornady did not recommend the use of Superformance in semiautomatic rifles.
Still waiting for him to test another "non-cherry picked" AR10 pattern rifle from another manufacturer. No cleaning or oil before firing
Why is no cleaning or lubricating a requirement for an "honest review?" This is something that I would expect from any other individual shooting a new firearm.
Because thats what he did with Aero. So if he is going to "review" another, dont change the rules now
