I need another rifle scope for hunting. So far, I have and have used a Swarovski Z5 2.4-12x50 on a CZ 527 6.5 Grendel bolt-gun and then moved it to a 6.5 Creedmoor Benelli. Now, on a Winchester Mdl. 70 in 264 Magnum is a S+B 6x42. It seems to fit well but the cartridge can go long range. I either need to scope the CZ or move the 6x42 to the CZ and scope the Winchester.
6x42
The 6x42 has a good size exit pupil.
The gun it's on is capable of long range, but 6X might not be the best to see far, or maybe it is.
More magnification seems desirable, but not if the optics won't support it.
The fixed-power's optics are good at 6X.
This is a MPBR scope with a non-dialing turret and simple reticle. The cartridge (264WM) is very flat within standard hunting ranges, but can go a lot farther.
Swarovski Z5
My Swaro Z5 won't fit the M70 without a different mount/rings but:
The Swaro's optics at 6X are only a little better. It has a wider field of view.
The Swaro's optics with the 50mm objective are pretty good to 9X, but dial it up to 12X and they suck.
The Z5 at 12X has a small exit pupil and bad CA.
The Z5 is still light for a 50mm variable at 16 oz.
The Z5 has a ballistic turret (dial) and it tracks well for me.
The Z5 has a good home on a 6.5CM Benelli that my sons use.
Scoping the CZ
The CZ used to have the Z5 that moved to the Benelli.
The 50mm Z5 was a bit big and out-of-proportion for the mini-action CZ but the bell cleared (by 1mm).
The Z5 was a bit too close to the eye on the mini-action where the front ring is closer than a short or long action. The turret was against the front ring and there was too much eye relief (had to cock head back, couldn't push scope more forward).
Re-scoping the M70
My concerns if I were to try to do better than the 6x42 on the M70
I might need a 56mm or larger objective to get a generous exit pupil at much more than 10X
It will require a different mount and rings, a bummer because it has a gorgeous mount now, it fits, it's zeroed.
It could cost $$$$$$$
It could weigh 2 or 3 pounds
These things incline me to keep the 6x42 on the M70, but I could also move it to the CZ and see if I can find a better scope for the Magnum's long-range capabilities. My Swarovski that costs more and weighs more isn't enough better to buy another one and the mount/rings to fit it, so I'm thinking to really do better is going to cost me a lot more $ and weight. The rifle is already over 9 pounds with the 6x42. If I were to fit a 56mm Z8 or ATACR, the weight could push 11 pounds.
Thoughts on better optics
The Z5 is short and light for a 12X scope and I think it suffers at 12X as a result. It really does better as a 2.4-9X. The low 2.4X was one of the reasons I bought it because I was misled by advice from people who hunt elsewhere that these low magnifications were desirable. I've spent years in the field since then and where I hunt, there is no benefit to anything less than 6X. I am not convinced that there is a benefit to much more than that simply because of the tradeoffs. I am aware I don't need a 7mm exit pupil, but at some higher number of X, the exit pupil is going to suck for hunting. I suspect it's somewhere around 4mm. Besides that, my experience with the Z5 suggests to me that the focal length and f ratio need to be conservative or the result may be more X without actually seeing more. I understand the objection that "it's a sighting device not an observation device." I think that if I cannot see and observe better at higher X, then I am just as well-off sighting at lower X.
I could just get another 6x42 for the CZ, or I could move my 6x42 to the CZ and buy a 8x56 for the Winchester, or I could sell one of the cars to add a couple pounds of variable to it.
From the sticky:
6x42
The 6x42 has a good size exit pupil.
The gun it's on is capable of long range, but 6X might not be the best to see far, or maybe it is.
More magnification seems desirable, but not if the optics won't support it.
The fixed-power's optics are good at 6X.
This is a MPBR scope with a non-dialing turret and simple reticle. The cartridge (264WM) is very flat within standard hunting ranges, but can go a lot farther.
Swarovski Z5
My Swaro Z5 won't fit the M70 without a different mount/rings but:
The Swaro's optics at 6X are only a little better. It has a wider field of view.
The Swaro's optics with the 50mm objective are pretty good to 9X, but dial it up to 12X and they suck.
The Z5 at 12X has a small exit pupil and bad CA.
The Z5 is still light for a 50mm variable at 16 oz.
The Z5 has a ballistic turret (dial) and it tracks well for me.
The Z5 has a good home on a 6.5CM Benelli that my sons use.
Scoping the CZ
The CZ used to have the Z5 that moved to the Benelli.
The 50mm Z5 was a bit big and out-of-proportion for the mini-action CZ but the bell cleared (by 1mm).
The Z5 was a bit too close to the eye on the mini-action where the front ring is closer than a short or long action. The turret was against the front ring and there was too much eye relief (had to cock head back, couldn't push scope more forward).
Re-scoping the M70
My concerns if I were to try to do better than the 6x42 on the M70
I might need a 56mm or larger objective to get a generous exit pupil at much more than 10X
It will require a different mount and rings, a bummer because it has a gorgeous mount now, it fits, it's zeroed.
It could cost $$$$$$$
It could weigh 2 or 3 pounds
These things incline me to keep the 6x42 on the M70, but I could also move it to the CZ and see if I can find a better scope for the Magnum's long-range capabilities. My Swarovski that costs more and weighs more isn't enough better to buy another one and the mount/rings to fit it, so I'm thinking to really do better is going to cost me a lot more $ and weight. The rifle is already over 9 pounds with the 6x42. If I were to fit a 56mm Z8 or ATACR, the weight could push 11 pounds.
Thoughts on better optics
The Z5 is short and light for a 12X scope and I think it suffers at 12X as a result. It really does better as a 2.4-9X. The low 2.4X was one of the reasons I bought it because I was misled by advice from people who hunt elsewhere that these low magnifications were desirable. I've spent years in the field since then and where I hunt, there is no benefit to anything less than 6X. I am not convinced that there is a benefit to much more than that simply because of the tradeoffs. I am aware I don't need a 7mm exit pupil, but at some higher number of X, the exit pupil is going to suck for hunting. I suspect it's somewhere around 4mm. Besides that, my experience with the Z5 suggests to me that the focal length and f ratio need to be conservative or the result may be more X without actually seeing more. I understand the objection that "it's a sighting device not an observation device." I think that if I cannot see and observe better at higher X, then I am just as well-off sighting at lower X.
I could just get another 6x42 for the CZ, or I could move my 6x42 to the CZ and buy a 8x56 for the Winchester, or I could sell one of the cars to add a couple pounds of variable to it.
From the sticky:
- What is the platform for the scope? (Examples: Rifle (Bolt or Semi-Auto), Pistol (Semi-Auto or Revolver)
- What cartridge are you shooting? (Examples: 22LR, 223, 308, 338 Lapua, etc.)
- What is your intended use for the scope? (Examples: PRS, Benchrest, Hunting, Target, Steel, etc. or any combination thereof)
Mule deer, pronghorn
- What type of conditions will you typically shoot in? (Examples: Daylight, Lowlight, Nighttime, etc. or any combination thereof)
Great basin mountains, high altitude, open or low cover
What are the typical distances you intend to shoot? (Examples: 1000+ yds, 600-1,000 yds, 300-600 yds, 100-300 yds, under 100 yds)
200 yards to 300 yards, possibly 400 yards or more with the Magnum; shots less than 200 yards are rare; the Grendel was good to 300 with the Swarovski, I haven't got the Magnum on game yet, but the potential is there for a lot more range, whether I want to use that distance is a different dilemma.
- Are there any specific specifications you would like? (Examples: FFP/SFP, 30mm tube, 50mm objective, focus below 50 yds, low turrets, mil or moa, weight, etc.)
See details above
- What is the price range you can afford? (Examples: Under $500, $500-$1000, $1000-$1500, etc.)
Depends on how much the kids need for college
