I seem to remember the transition to 300 Win Mag began around 94-95. I was surprised when I read Carl Kovalchik was shooting a 300 vice 7mm, and I believe he won a bunch of things at Perry 1999-ish.
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The 300 WM and 7 Rem Mag make me think.. What was the qual and round count per year to stay current? Surely SS had/has a good budget. Were they shooting alot to burn out barrels quickly? Then just get another barrel spun on?
I love the "JAR" name/reference. I suppose any other rifle that is accurate and repeatable "Just Another Rifle" can definitely be used by SS to accomplish their mission.
This seems like it was truly an Era were they where cowboys and pioneers.
I love the "JAR" name/reference. I suppose any other rifle that is accurate and repeatable "Just Another Rifle" can definitely be used by SS to accomplish their mission.
This seems like it was truly an Era were they where cowboys and pioneers.
I do appreciate everyone chiming in to this and helping me to figure out exactly how to configure my JAR build. This is some great info here!!
I don't think McMillan even makes the prone stock any more.
The JAR didn't have a brake.
The 300 could punish someone in the course of a 22-shot prone match at Camp Perry. I scored an Air Force lieutenant who did well on his first ten-shot string, but by the middle of the second was building up quite a flinch from the ass-whooping it was laying down.
The JAR didn't have a brake.
The 300 could punish someone in the course of a 22-shot prone match at Camp Perry. I scored an Air Force lieutenant who did well on his first ten-shot string, but by the middle of the second was building up quite a flinch from the ass-whooping it was laying down.
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Thanks again for chasing all that down, Frank and thanks to @redneckbmxer24 as well...I didn't know Schneider barrels were used, always thought they were Lilja or Kreiger...Appreciate all the information shared thus far...Wonder if the 300s had a 10 twist or 11 and what round they used (prob A191 but just a guess).
Schneider was used after usmc went Schneider .
Hart was first. Ray Sweets hand in this is pretty suspicious there... Sweet, RVN USMC, FBI Sniper builder and instructor, and always in the background at Perry for 20-25 years or more.
The A191 was a later Crane US Navy deal, and didn't meet the accuracy standards for SS. Carl K used a 220 reload. I'm working on more info. One of Carl's shooting team is a current SS gunsmith and we wait to see if he will or can respond.
My guess is 10 twist. No Krieger wasn't making them any tubes at that time. Krieger didn't go full time with the barrel shop until 1986. I could be wrong. His first year as a business was 1982 but I don't think it was full time. When he started it was still called Krieger manufacturing and not Krieger Barrels.
Ed was at the RTE shop and Ed was talking about how long the Schneiders lasted in testing etc... and I think the guys name was McCreary (spelling on that?) made the switch to Schneiders for the Marine Corp. That's how that all came about.
Honestly guys you need to slow down a little and verify something like this before posting. Gary is alive and well and, I'm sure, enjoying his retirement.
I'm not a clone guy either, per say, but I do enjoy the history of these types of rifles.
While I personally won't go through the effort and cost to build one myself, I can appreciate that others do.
Gary isn't dead and Tubb doesn't own it.
Like I said before, I'd bet you can call Schneider barrels and order a spec blank.
Like I said before, I'd bet you can call Schneider barrels and order a spec blank.
Better than that a person can call Gary and talk about it at length. Christie said his phone number in Payson still works.
Your history lesson for the day…. The guy that was there when the JAR rifles were being used etc.. is still at SS. I talked to him an hour ago. He is still doing gun work there and guess who’s barrels he is using? 
I didn’t want to bug him with some of these questions and didn’t want to cold call him about this but we got in touch. He said anytime give him a call.
The contour was just a normal heavy varmint contour. They didn’t call out anything special per se. So depending on the barrel supplier over time you might see some variations in the HV contour but that’s all it is.
All 7mag barrels were 1-9 twist.
All 300wm barrels were 1-10 twist.
The 7mag conversion to 300wm was in the 2000-2001 time frame. So at the start of 2000 there where still 7mags in service but by 2001 there where no more 7mags in service.
The only reason and again the only reason for the change to the 300wm and he told me… we were perfectly fine with the 7mag and the performance. The change was due to the one range they shot at and the concern was over the lead bullets and the effect on the wildlife/preserve etc…. and they did do testing on 30cal bullets that had a tungsten core projectile that where already being made. They tested them and they shot good out to 600 yards and change. He said past 600 they got a little funny but it filled the role. They asked about getting tungsten projectiles for the 7mm but they were told they can do it but it would take over a year to get them made. So that was the only reason for the switch from the 7mm to the 300wm.
He said back in 2000 the cost for a single round with the tungsten bullet was $4.15 per round but they were not shooting a 100k rounds a year so no budget issues. Then go figure about a year or two later the range said…well the tungsten probably isn’t any better vs the lead so you can shoot what you want. That was funny shit when I heard that! He said what was cool about the tungsten bullets was they could vary how they were made. They could shoot a coyote at 75 yards with the bullet made to be more frangible and it wouldn’t go completely thru. Now think of that application for a SS sniper shooting in the town. Not worried as much about what’s behind the target but they could get the bullets made so they could take out an elk at 1300 yards as well.
All of the original barrels as I understand it were Harts. So he asked Ray Steele why are we buying Harts for the JAR rifles and Schneider for the match rifles? So he ran a test… the Schneiders at the time out shot the Harts. So he said done…we are not buying barrels from two different makers and everything was changed to Schneider. End of that story.
So hopefully that helps you guys fill in the blanks on what was used and the time frame on the 7mags vs the 300wm.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
I didn’t want to bug him with some of these questions and didn’t want to cold call him about this but we got in touch. He said anytime give him a call.The contour was just a normal heavy varmint contour. They didn’t call out anything special per se. So depending on the barrel supplier over time you might see some variations in the HV contour but that’s all it is.
All 7mag barrels were 1-9 twist.
All 300wm barrels were 1-10 twist.
The 7mag conversion to 300wm was in the 2000-2001 time frame. So at the start of 2000 there where still 7mags in service but by 2001 there where no more 7mags in service.
The only reason and again the only reason for the change to the 300wm and he told me… we were perfectly fine with the 7mag and the performance. The change was due to the one range they shot at and the concern was over the lead bullets and the effect on the wildlife/preserve etc…. and they did do testing on 30cal bullets that had a tungsten core projectile that where already being made. They tested them and they shot good out to 600 yards and change. He said past 600 they got a little funny but it filled the role. They asked about getting tungsten projectiles for the 7mm but they were told they can do it but it would take over a year to get them made. So that was the only reason for the switch from the 7mm to the 300wm.
He said back in 2000 the cost for a single round with the tungsten bullet was $4.15 per round but they were not shooting a 100k rounds a year so no budget issues. Then go figure about a year or two later the range said…well the tungsten probably isn’t any better vs the lead so you can shoot what you want. That was funny shit when I heard that! He said what was cool about the tungsten bullets was they could vary how they were made. They could shoot a coyote at 75 yards with the bullet made to be more frangible and it wouldn’t go completely thru. Now think of that application for a SS sniper shooting in the town. Not worried as much about what’s behind the target but they could get the bullets made so they could take out an elk at 1300 yards as well.
All of the original barrels as I understand it were Harts. So he asked Ray Steele why are we buying Harts for the JAR rifles and Schneider for the match rifles? So he ran a test… the Schneiders at the time out shot the Harts. So he said done…we are not buying barrels from two different makers and everything was changed to Schneider. End of that story.
So hopefully that helps you guys fill in the blanks on what was used and the time frame on the 7mags vs the 300wm.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
The finish length on the 7mag barrels was 26". The muzzle crown style was 11 degree target. This is the pic he sent me. Notice how big of a chamfer is on the outside edge and at the bore edge it looks like a sharp edge at the bore. We personally here put a 60 degree chamfer on the bore edge. I feel it helps with gas cutting, cleaning damage and overall help the life of the crown.
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From Schneiders website...I wonder who and what customer this is for? http://schneiderriflebarrels.com/#contours scroll down and click the blue link for additional contours,
I would like to thank everyone who has helped dig up information on the JAR rifle platforms throughout this thread. Here is my rifle configuration I will be going with:
Remington 700 “E” prefix magnum
Remington 7mm Rem Mag
Hart 1-9 twist SS barrel @26” finish w/ target crown and 60* center
Walker solid shoe 700 trigger
Remington aluminum BDL hinged bottom metal
McMillan A5 with aluminum LOP adjustment. Finished is black gel coat.
Leupold MK4 30mm 4.5-14 “it’s what I have”
Badger 30mm rings
Badger 1 piece scope mount.
I will leave the the barrel in the white and the action with a blued finish. The bottom metal will be a factory finished black as well. When I have this all built I will post pics but it will be a while. To many projects going at one time.
Thank you again everyone!
Remington 700 “E” prefix magnum
Remington 7mm Rem Mag
Hart 1-9 twist SS barrel @26” finish w/ target crown and 60* center
Walker solid shoe 700 trigger
Remington aluminum BDL hinged bottom metal
McMillan A5 with aluminum LOP adjustment. Finished is black gel coat.
Leupold MK4 30mm 4.5-14 “it’s what I have”
Badger 30mm rings
Badger 1 piece scope mount.
I will leave the the barrel in the white and the action with a blued finish. The bottom metal will be a factory finished black as well. When I have this all built I will post pics but it will be a while. To many projects going at one time.
Thank you again everyone!
I can assure, the business of Schneider Barrels was handed off, by Gary, to Nate Stallter. Nate is David Tubbs S-I-L. Nate was trained for months and then relocated the business from Payson to Canadian. As of November, when I last saw them, they were cranking out barrels.
Two or three years ago, I confirmed with Hart that they produced the barrels for the early 7mm tubes. When I enquired about specs, I received the following info: "For the twist rate on those 7mm, they used a 9" twist (to stabilize 168 grains) the contour was a Sniper taper which is 1.200 x .900 @ 26" or 24" finish." I also learned that Larry Willis of Innovative Technologies developed a Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die that the USSS purchased for the early 7mm Rem. Mags. FWIW...
Frank do you happen to know if the bullets were made with powdered tungsten. I had heard that probably 20 or more years ago. Innovative in that the bullet wouldn't leave the body of the bad guy, which could come in handy when shooting into crowds. I also heard those that this type of bullet couldn't be produced in anything smaller than .30 cal.Your history lesson for the day…. The guy that was there when the JAR rifles were being used etc.. is still at SS. I talked to him an hour ago. He is still doing gun work there and guess who’s barrels he is using?
The contour was just a normal heavy varmint contour. They didn’t call out anything special per se. So depending on the barrel supplier over time you might see some variations in the HV contour but that’s all it is.
All 7mag barrels were 1-9 twist.
All 300wm barrels were 1-10 twist.
The 7mag conversion to 300wm was in the 2000-2001 time frame. So at the start of 2000 there where still 7mags in service but by 2001 there where no more 7mags in service.
The only reason and again the only reason for the change to the 300wm and he told me… we were perfectly fine with the 7mag and the performance. The change was due to the one range they shot at and the concern was over the lead bullets and the effect on the wildlife/preserve etc…. and they did do testing on 30cal bullets that had a tungsten core projectile that where already being made. They tested them and they shot good out to 600 yards and change. He said past 600 they got a little funny but it filled the role. They asked about getting tungsten projectiles for the 7mm but they were told they can do it but it would take over a year to get them made. So that was the only reason for the switch from the 7mm to the 300wm.
He said back in 2000 the cost for a single round with the tungsten bullet was $4.15 per round but they were not shooting a 100k rounds a year so no budget issues. Then go figure about a year or two later the range said…well the tungsten probably isn’t any better vs the lead so you can shoot what you want. That was funny shit when I heard that! He said what was cool about the tungsten bullets was they could vary how they were made. They could shoot a coyote at 75 yards with the bullet made to be more frangible and it wouldn’t go completely thru. Now think of that application for a SS sniper shooting in the town. Not worried as much about what’s behind the target but they could get the bullets made so they could take out an elk at 1300 yards as well.
All of the original barrels as I understand it were Harts. So he asked Ray Steele why are we buying Harts for the JAR rifles and Schneider for the match rifles? So he ran a test… the Schneiders at the time out shot the Harts. So he said done…we are not buying barrels from two different makers and everything was changed to Schneider. End of that story.
So hopefully that helps you guys fill in the blanks on what was used and the time frame on the 7mags vs the 300wm.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Don't know if it was made with powdered tungsten. All I know offhand was it was a tungsten core. If I recall the conversation correctly it was Lost River Ballistics that made the bullets. LRB told them they could make them in 7mm but it would take a Year+ to get the first ones made.
El Rey is alive and well too!
LRB made copper solids. You're referring to PRL. I'd heard Carl was playing with PRL's...but didn't know the backstory. PRL made bullets down to 22 caliber. They created some buzz in the highpower world with their 224 87gr with the form factor of a 69 sierra.
Offhand I'm not sure on PRL (Powell River Labs) and if they ever supplied any bullets etc...
I was told it was LRB (Lost River Ballistics) on the bullets.
All I can help you with on that.
They’re both niche companies that used novel technologies. I can see how they could be confused….but having spoken at length with the LRB folks I feel pretty confident that tungsten core (sintered, powdered or solid) was not their tech.
I got it straight from the SS gunsmith/builder who was there thru the whole thing. He retires this year. Best I can tell you and where the info came from.
