Is this still a thing? I’ve been inactive for years in any type of competition and the question just came up at work.
- Thread starter benchmstr
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I'm still waiting for fast paced gas gun matches to take off in my area. 3 gun is on the decline and I haven't seen anything interesting enough to fill the void for me. Traditional PRS looks like watching paint dry to me.
Fun to shoot. Boring as fuck to watch.
Figure that if you time-out on every stage of a typical 1-day, 8 stage match, you spend all day in order to shoot for 12-16 minutes (90s v 2min par time) and shoot up to 80 shots.
I enjoy shooting them, but after the first one, my wife asked me to not invite her to spectate any more. Still more fun than sitting in a box and waiting for a deer.
Shooting is not a spectator sport no matter the discipline. If it was there would have been bleachers and long time ago and there’d be people lined up to blow the MD just to RO. The only time someone watches the guy shooting is to see how they’re running a stage to do it better than them.
It's still an active division in PRS, but you can expect to see maybe 1-4 gas gunners at a single season 2-day match. 7-10 across the country will get enough matches/points in to make it to the finale. I tried it out for the 2023 season and I won't be doing it again.
I could get excited about a 2-man team where one guy has a gas gun the other a bolt gun, or if you could get enough people together to put on a totally gas-gun DMR friendly match it might be worth doing. PRS gas gun is a good way to "win" 1st in division (sometimes just by showing up), but finish middle of the pack. The targets are getting smaller and I don't care what anyone says about "driving" a gas gun, they're not as precise and the top level of precision they are capable of comes after much more fiddling around.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see more of them, but the way PRS is going I don't see it happening. Needs a different style of match.
I could get excited about a 2-man team where one guy has a gas gun the other a bolt gun, or if you could get enough people together to put on a totally gas-gun DMR friendly match it might be worth doing. PRS gas gun is a good way to "win" 1st in division (sometimes just by showing up), but finish middle of the pack. The targets are getting smaller and I don't care what anyone says about "driving" a gas gun, they're not as precise and the top level of precision they are capable of comes after much more fiddling around.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see more of them, but the way PRS is going I don't see it happening. Needs a different style of match.
Figure that if you time-out on every stage of a typical 1-day, 8 stage match, you spend all day in order to shoot for 12-16 minutes (90s v 2min par time) and shoot up to 80 shots.
This is exactly why I quit. I love the camaraderie, but it can only go so far. Paint drying as you wait for your 90 seconds to come around again
This is exactly why I quit. I love the camaraderie, but it can only go so far. Paint drying as you wait for your 90 seconds to come around again
It absolutely beats tree stand sitting. And all shooting sports suck to watch. And most of them take a day to accrue 10 minutes of shooting.
All that said I'm probably the odd man out around here, I shot one non sanctioned PRS style match. It's more fun than knitting for sure but the adrenaline rush levels were similar. The pace of the shooting, not the downtime, is just not exciting for me.
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3 guns been dead since 2012…taran butler and John wick just gives people the illusion that it still exist
Many would argue that 2012-17 was the golden era. I've been wondering for years how John Wick became associated with 3 gun. I don't see it.
Taran butler..all the clips of Keanu training with him and marketing his guns through the movies
Look up Quantified Performance. MCB Quantico has a match every month (that I know of)
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Oh I've seen them, they just have almost nothing to do with 3 gun. I guess I could see how someone on the outside looking in might see similarities though.
My wife has been tagging along to dozens of matches a year for 7-8 years. I think she loves all the camaraderie and BS'ing more than I do.my wife said the same thing
It’s been a slow burn over the past few years, but I think 2-gun is making headway. Looks interesting, and eliminates the worst part (in my opinion) of 3-gun- the shotgun…
Maybe USPSA in your area is a more affable crowd. Some PRS guys walk around like they have a spare barrel in their prison purse…
Shotgun is 33% of the best part! Actually maybe 35% shotgun, 40% rifle and 25% pistol if I was gonna rank them. 2 gun here is struggling more than 3G.
Seriously though, I just watched the last two 3G stage videos I shot last year to make sure shotgun was still awesome. Yup, these stages would've been half the fun without it.
Actually she's never been to a USPSA match. Only 3 gun. And it's a good time when I'm with my main homies, lots of shenanigans and sailor talk. Surprising amount of wives around too, maybe 70% spectating and 30% shooting.
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PRS is (time) weighted to favor the bolt gun, as it should be. But don't think for a minute thats reality. Gas guns can and do compete and depending on how the stage is designed can do very well. If you want to compete in PRS do it and have fun.
That’s what I’m saying..no one in the actual shooting competition community is into 3 gun anymore..but outside looking in you’d think it’s the shit
I shoot gas gun matches , the place I shoot are not prs sanctioned , But it's a fun place to shoot and it is not a square range . your gonna pack your gear up the hill and down the hill . to me it's just about getting out and having some fun , Plus I learn something every time I go . My personal property does not allow me a place to stretch out past 300 yds most of it is steep hills and heavy timber . so I get a chance to shoot to 750 yds with my 5.56 rifle . I did shoot some 2 gun matches and did enjoy that but I had to travel a way's to get there and it was in Illinois so now with all their crap that has stopped and I don't feel like crossing the river into that shit hole place any way . I think I am going to do some pistol caliber carbine matches this year , I kind of got away from it but I think I need a change of pace .
PRS Gas Gun was an independent series in 2017 and 2018. It went away in 2019 and was wrapped up as a division of the "normal" centerfire PRS series.
Quantified Performance "Shoot Fast, Shoot Far" matches started in 2019 to fill the gap of a midrange precision match based on stage time.
3 Divisions:
-General Purpose: 16.5" barrel limit, magnification of not more than 8.5x unless the lowest magnification is 1.5x or below, no magazine capacity restrictions.
-Practical Precision: 20.5" barrel limit, no magnification restrictions, 20-round magazine capacity limit.
-Open: 3200 ft/sec speed limit.
2024 Season:
I talked to Frank about it a bit on the SH Podcast: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/jack-from-quantified-performance-interview.7149825/
If you have any questions, happy to discuss.
Quantified Performance "Shoot Fast, Shoot Far" matches started in 2019 to fill the gap of a midrange precision match based on stage time.
3 Divisions:
-General Purpose: 16.5" barrel limit, magnification of not more than 8.5x unless the lowest magnification is 1.5x or below, no magazine capacity restrictions.
-Practical Precision: 20.5" barrel limit, no magnification restrictions, 20-round magazine capacity limit.
-Open: 3200 ft/sec speed limit.
2024 Season:
- December 16th Yuma Matchmasters, Yuma Arizona (ENDED)
- Feb 17th Volusia Gun and Hunt Club, New Smyrna Florida
- Feb 17th YMM Gas Gun, Yuma AZ
- March 2-3 Arena Training Facility, Blakely Georgia
- March 16th Peacemaker National Training Center, Gerrardstown, West Virginia
- April 13th High Stakes Outdoor Alliance Creston Iowa
- April 13th Volusia Gun and Hunt Club, New Smyrna Florida
- April 27 Alliance Outdoors Maysville, North Carolina
- May 25th Sawmill Training Center Laurens, South Carolina
- June 8th Arena Training Facility Blakely, Georgia
- June 22nd Peacemaker National Training Center, Gerrardstown, West Virginia
- July 6th Volusia Gun and Hunt Club, New Smyrna Florida
- July 27th Alliance Outdoors Maysville, North Carolina
- August 10th Sawmill Training Center Laurens, South Carolina
- September 14th Arena Training Facility
- September 21st Peacemaker National Training Center, Gerrardstown, West Virginia
- October 5th Sawmill Training Center Laurens, South Carolina
- October 12th Alliance Outdoors Maysville, North Carolina
- Shoot Fast, Shoot Far Finale
- November 30th Liberty Hill Outdoors Rector, Arkansas
I talked to Frank about it a bit on the SH Podcast: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/jack-from-quantified-performance-interview.7149825/
If you have any questions, happy to discuss.
Some guys do their own thing like Barrel and Hatchet.
That's what I thought about 3 gun the first time I tried it, stand around for 45 minutes, then shoot for 30 seconds, rinse and repeat.
. Maybe if they started using smaller targets it would be more interesting, full size IPSC is easy at 100 yards with a pistol, with a rifle it isn't a challenge.Haven't seen anything posted yet. Are they holding them for sure in 2024
You must not have seen my subsequent post where I stated that most shooting sports are a full day of standing broken up by seconds of shooting now and then. It's the action on the clock pace that I find too slow.
Unfortunately you were misinformed or missed the entire point of 3 Gun. It's a racing sport that happens to use guns instead of cars. No one walks up to LeMan or Indianapolis or Laguna Seca and says "this paved surface doesn't present a challenge to cars, it can be easily driven on!". The challenge is that no matter how fast you think you're going someone else has found ways to shave tenths off your time.
PRS is a shooting sport that happens to have a clock. It's not a race. If that's what you like, great, that's why we have multiple sports to choose from.
I did see those posts later, but I'll disagree about the racing analogy. I road raced motorcycles for 16 years, been to Laguna and generally ran up front when racing, some tracks are easier than others. I preferred more technical tracks where skill could trump Hp. Tracks are like stages in that you can figure out where you might save time and where you're likely to lose time with a small mistake.
I agree. And yet somehow we disagree. A stage or track is just a puzzle of efficiency, with your skill level as the limiter. Sure a 100 yard pistol shot on a silhouette isn't hard (reality is that most people can't do it though) in the same way that just driving around a race track isn't hard. It's the racing that makes it hard, not so much the pavement/target.
All that said, I've had to shoot pistols out to 220 yards, 600 yard rifle shots from various PRS like contrived awkward positions but without the bags/bipods/tripods, had 5 clays in the air at once, shot aerial clays with rifle and pistol and the amount of moving carnival targets that often have limited exposure or no-shoots behind them kinda hurt your argument for target difficulty.
So if I understand this right, it nearly makes anything less then a 1-10x very undesirable?
I wouldn't necessarily say that.
We wrote the rule to allow as many low power and low-ish power fixed and variable optics as possible without giving dedicated optics a distinct advantage. For example, there are a bunch of older 2x-8x range optics that do meet the general concept of "General Purpose", including issued optics like the Leupold TS-30A2, as well as some fixed power optics that certainly wouldn't be competitive against more task-specific optics in Practical, but without going high enough in magnification for a real advantage against a decent LPVO.
1-10xs do have appeal, but optical clarity with most of them suffers at magnification above 8x. I have taken overall first using an ATACR 1-8x, finding that a good reticle and a good enough image will beat magnification.
These matches also do include 100-200 yards engagements on multiple targets, where a lower magnification and bold reticle are an advantage.
For GP I have been enjoying the Vudu 1-10x and the NF ATACR 1-8x. Most others I have tried did not give me what I want as much as either of those two.
Good to know. As a follow up question regarding ideal max magnification, what kind/size of targets are most common?
Targets may be no smaller than 0.45 MRAD /1.55 MOA in width or height for any stage that influences ranking. Bonus stages/targets have no limitation on target size. Maximum shot distance shall not exceed 875 yards (800 meters) for more than one target on any stage that influences ranking, per day of competition. Bonus stages/targets have no limitation on maximum distance.
Most targets will be in the 1-2 MRAD size for most stages, and the majority of targets will be between 300 and 600 yards. We do have a requirement for at least 6 hits per day of competition at over 650 yards, but that's balanced with a requirement for 12 hits at under 250 yards.
Remember that score is based on time to complete the stage, with a 30 second penalty for non-hit targets. Lots of folks get wrapped up in trying to get the first shot downrange as fast as possible or to get target to target transitions like a pistol plate rack, but fail to establish an *adequate* position and wind plan. Yeah, they'll shoot "fast", but their stage process tends to fall apart before the last target is hit. Most stages will be unlimited round count (90 second par), which is just generous enough to cause dumpster-fires once the plan falls apart.
As far as magnification goes, I tend to be at max magnification for GP (8 or 10x) past 250, but I will occasionally dip to 2-4x on "short" stages.
In Practical and Open I tend to be at 13x for 250+ (unless I need more FOV for target transitions), and might dip down to 4 or 5x for short stages where a 12:00 dot won't do what I need.
What is the requirement to shoot in the Finale? Do you have to shoot a certain number of matches and earn a certain number of points? Could you just shoot the WV matches and be able to shoot in the Finale?
Series points toward the championship are accumulated through 3 days of shooting. Best 3 scores, per division. So yes, you can have all needed points for the championship by just shooting PNTC. The Finale is an open match, but folks that are in the championship get priority.
Shot a non-circuit DMR match they put on last year at PNTC. Hoping they do another one soon since PNTC has the range facilities for it, but they no longer have the in-house MD that can put on a good DMR match.
ETA: March 16, June 22, and Sep 21 at PNTC, per the schedule posted above. Sweet
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I was really happy to have PNTC on the schedule. I have shot up there a few times, and the facility is outstanding for this match type.
I'm going to shoot at least one of them.
PRS gas gun is going to start picking up this year. There are some new guns that are coming out that are going to be much more friendly. With the 6 ARC, we are seeing more guys build gas guns to shoot matches. Finally I know 2 pro shooters including one who won a different division last year are going to be switching to Gas Gun for the 2024 Season. Its about to get a whole lot harder for the shooters currently playing in that pool. One of the better gas gun shooters just went to work for Geissele and both the MRGG and the new Geissele GFR are going to be very popular.
