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Shot show 2024

Mr.BR said:
Yes lets not develop or improve anything so that value of old shit doesn't get crushed.
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No, the lesson is this:

Don’t completely botch a product release (MDR) for 5 ongoing painful years and alienate a bunch of customers and issue endless repeated apologies, recall several things for several years after eventual release, and then, after all that turmoil, finally release the product that you should have released all along if you had known what you were doing, and completely kill the original product making it clear it was basically a giant untested beta-design flop that countless customers paid $2000 for and is now all but worthless
 
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secondofangle2 said:
No, the lesson is this:

Don’t completely botch a product release (MDR) for 5 ongoing painful years and alienate a bunch of customers and issue endless repeated apologies, recall several things for several years after eventual release, and then, after all that turmoil, finally release the product that you should have released all along if you had known what you were doing, and completely kill the original product making it clear it was basically a giant untested beta-design flop that countless customers paid $2000 for and is now all but worthless
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But isn't that a way of doing business in the states? Look at Sig Sauer since it became US company, they haven't released a single new product i know off that did not go through recall and design changes etc for 3+years. So much so that with Sig Sauer are better off waiting a couple of years for them to get their shit together.

There is good and bad side to this practice - good > many more products and companies enter the market and have a chance to show their worth. Bad side is being a beta tester on your own dime.

Man i just have to remember how i bought every Autotrickler iteration, literaly bought it 4 times over to get what it should have been in the start.

I sometimes wish we had the same attitude over the pond , but no., it has to be perfect and never see the light of day seems to be the prevailing mantra.''Perfect is the enemy of good''
 
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Sig is a shit company and a poor example
DT is Mormon shit over promised and under delivered. Notice all the DT ball garglers from the last 10 years have moved on to other shit. It's fanboi shit like these presses. In a few years no one will remember or care. It's the same retards getting excited becuase they think it's something new or revolutionary when it's just another in a long line of products designed to remove money from idiots bank accounts. Does nothing new or better. Look at the garmin craze for example
You would think someone invented fire when they could have had a small form factor chrono 2 years ago in Andiscan.

People are dumb. Company's prey on this.
 
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Rio Precision Gunworks said:
Yea, the top of the press looks to be two parts. A stationary part in the rear that has shell holder storage and tapped for something like a brush. And the front is what moves vertically like a RCBS Summit. I'd say it's closer to a Summit/Frankford Arsenal than a Forster.
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It's going to have all of the ergonomic issues of the Forster without the ability to reduce the lever height.
 
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I don’t care what religion people practice and I’d like to try some polyamory myself

What I do care about is nepotism and competence, and they are in conflict with one another
 
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DeathBeforeDismount said:
Doesn't wear the funny underwear? Figures.
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Mr.BR said:
''outside the family guy'' would need at least two wives to last longer at DT
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If somebody has more than 1 wife at a time these days you aren't part of the funny underwear church. More than one wife at a time has been against church policy since 1890. It will get you excommunicated. Excommunication doesn't happen if your wife dies and you get remarried.

Btw for us the funny underwear is a reminder of commitments we made with God. Covers about the same as boxers (above the knee) and wearing an undershirt. Our ministers are lay ministers and work regular jobs in addition to church service. No collars or other external official signs that other churches do.

Sincerely,
One of the many 'funny underwear church' members on this site.

(not trying to turn this to religion at all. Just informing about this specific subject. If you have further questions or comments about this PM me).
 
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Cascade Hemi said:
It's going to have all of the ergonomic issues of the Forster without the ability to reduce the lever height.
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It's been a few years since I used a co-ax. Which ergonomic issues are we thinking? I remember a few small things here and there that were irritating, but nothing too major.
 
Rio Precision Gunworks said:
It's been a few years since I used a co-ax. Which ergonomic issues are we thinking? I remember a few small things here and there that were irritating, but nothing too major.
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the co-ax has the lever higher up and in the center, so you basically have to lift your hand (ever-so-slightly), to grab the handle. Some prefer a side lever, with a lower pivot point... The other benefit of non-coax design is you can have have true side-loading of the brass.
 
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iceng said:
Most accurate ammo ive loaded was on a rock chucker. And ive tried multiple presses. Now own 2 rock chuckers.

If you are super concerned, size you brass, but before you remove it from shell holder, rotate it 1/3rd of a turn (rotate it in the shell holder while its still in the press) and size it again.. spunds weird, but ive found cheap dies and/or press benefit from this.
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You're not buying a luxury press for better ammo.

The Zero, and this SAC press, will not make better ammo than cheaper alternatives.

You're buying it for the features and to have a piece of luxury reloading equipment.

The SAC press, like the Zero, is not for the majority of reloaders.
 
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^Agree. Same with my Prazipress. It's a BMW but a Nissan gets me to work just the same
 
kthomas said:
You're not buying a luxury press for better ammo.

The Zero, and this SAC press, will not make better ammo than cheaper alternatives.

You're buying it for the features and to have a piece of luxury reloading equipment.

The SAC press, like the Zero, is not for the majority of reloaders.
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What I find humorous is that most of the shooters these presses are marketed to are shooting PRS, not benchrest shooters. I am all for consistent ammo, but give me a break; a COAX will load ammo just as accurately and for a fraction of the price.
 
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kthomas said:
You're not buying a luxury press for better ammo...You're buying it for the features...
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The luxury items like annealers, tricklers, trimmers, dillon/turret, etc presses, typically have substantial workflow benefts. This efficiency gain makes them (arguably) more productive assets vs purely luxury purchases. At a certain thehold volume, it becomes cheaper to invest in faster workflow.

The 64k question for high-end single-stage presses is always...is there any such WORKFLOW benefit that justifies double or triple the cost? The key thing to keep in mind is you can buy eg TWO co-ax presses for $700, or THREE rock chuckers, which ALONE will give you workflow benefits like reduced setup time, and more parallel processing options.
 
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Adam B said:
What I find humorous is that most of the shooters these presses are marketed to are shooting PRS, not benchrest shooters. I am all for consistent ammo, but give me a break; a COAX will load ammo just as accurately and for a fraction of the price.
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Yeah, that's what I use as well. No plans on upgrading from the Co-ax.
 
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ma smith said:
The luxury items like annealers, tricklers, trimmers, dillon/turret, etc presses, typically have substantial workflow benefts. This efficiency gain makes them (arguably) more productive assets vs purely luxury purchases. At a certain thehold volume, it becomes cheaper to invest in faster workflow.

The 64k question for high-end single-stage presses is always...is there any such WORKFLOW benefit that justifies double or triple the cost? The key thing to keep in mind is you can buy eg TWO co-ax presses for $700, or THREE rock chuckers, which ALONE will give you workflow benefits like reduced setup time, and more parallel processing options.
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That's true.

I have an AMP and a CPS, and both of those have been great investments as far as work flow and consistency, and would fall in the "luxury" camp.
 
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kthomas said:
That's true.

I have an AMP and a CPS, and both of those have been great investments as far as work flow and consistency, and would fall in the "luxury" camp.
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Not trying to start something, legitimately asking. The CPS improves the workflow over the CoAx priming?
 
ma smith said:
the co-ax has the lever higher up and in the center, so you basically have to lift your hand (ever-so-slightly), to grab the handle. Some prefer a side lever, with a lower pivot point... The other benefit of non-coax design is you can have have true side-loading of the brass.
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The CoAx handle is 14" higher than a Rock Chucker. It's a substantial difference, not "ever so slightly".
 
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blbennett1288 said:
Not trying to start something, legitimately asking. The CPS improves the workflow over the CoAx priming?
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Vs using the actual priming system on the co-ax press that you havre to single feed primers in? Definitely.

If you're talking about the co-ax dedicated priming tool, maybe not better work flow, but definitely more user friendly.
 
secondofangle2 said:
No, the lesson is this:

Don’t completely botch a product release (MDR) for 5 ongoing painful years and alienate a bunch of customers and issue endless repeated apologies, recall several things for several years after eventual release, and then, after all that turmoil, finally release the product that you should have released all along if you had known what you were doing, and completely kill the original product making it clear it was basically a giant untested beta-design flop that countless customers paid $2000 for and is now all but worthless
Click to expand...
I’d argue that’s overstating things. Any new semiautomatic rifle design to market or adoption has always had some things to work out, the farther out of the normal, the more risks. pretending flawless releases are the norm is being a very poor student of history.

For where DT were at the time, the MDR was a pretty decent achievement. could it have been executed better? absolutely, but pretending it was an unmitigated disaster is also pretty disingenuous.

Its worth noting that many other designs considered rock solid today were not on release either, the SCAR comes vividly to mind, so does the Bren 2 MS. both from large manufacturers that had military $ and far more experience

I can’t speak for others, but I bought my MDRX knowing that not all its flaws may yet have been evident, but the company had built something I wanted, and I was willing to take the risk given all the boxes it checked for me.

The MDRX has hardly become a $0 paperweight. it still has a transferable lifetime warranty, it still goes bang when you feed it ammo. It’s like bitching that your truck is worthless because the frame dimensions on the new model changed so no new aftermarket parts for the new year model will fit.
 
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I don't disagree.

Push back and forth and settle on the truth

THere are lessons to be learnt tho, and it's why, despite being an inveterate DT fan, I never got on that bandwagon.

Glad yours is performing well!
 
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Cascade Hemi said:
The CoAx handle is 14" higher than a Rock Chucker. It's a substantial difference, not "ever so slightly".
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While true, when I use it sitting down though it’s a life saver. A “normal” press would have me hunched over and I’d be running my knuckles to the floor to operate.
 
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carbonbased said:
Ok ok ok. Underwear, debates about reloading equipment, ugly bullpup religion…Jesus hep’ me lawd

Any other Shot Show 2024 announcements? Please lol 🙏
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1000002831.jpg
 
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Cascade Hemi said:
The CoAx handle is 14" higher than a Rock Chucker. It's a substantial difference, not "ever so slightly".
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This press should be substantially more compact than most any press. That's a very small pelican turned on its side and obviously a rifle in the back for scale. Forster Co-Ax handle is a product of the very long single handle extending pretty hight. Along with the guide rods sitting below the bottom of press which require it to be mounted very far forward or elevated.

Obviously no press is ever for everyone, but this one should be a bit more to someone's liking who doesn't like the Forster handle.

Screenshot 2024-01-21 at 9.02.31 AM.png
 
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Rio Precision Gunworks said:
This press should be substantially more compact than most any press. That's a very small pelican turned on its side and obviously a rifle in the back for scale. Forster Co-Ax handle is a product of the very long single handle extending pretty hight. Along with the guide rods sitting below the bottom of press which require it to be mounted very far forward or elevated.

Obviously no press is ever for everyone, but this one should be a bit more to someone's liking who doesn't like the Forster handle.

View attachment 8328772
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I'll be interested to see reviews when the press comes out. I don't think I'll be a buyer but more options is better for everyone.
 
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Cascade Hemi said:
I'll be interested to see reviews when the press comes out. I don't think I'll be a buyer but more options is better for everyone.
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I'm sure ultimate reloader will do a 20 minute video listing specs and never showing him use it, or actual group sizes against his current setup, and leave you feeling like you went to a barbecue joint and only ate sauce, but no meat...
 
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rothgyr said:
I'm sure ultimate reloader will do a 20 minute video listing specs and never showing him use it, or actual group sizes against his current setup, and leave you feeling like you went to a barbecue joint and only ate sauce, but no meat...
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Gavin never met a product he didn't fall in love with. He's your typical modern day whore after clicks. Casual people eat that shit up.

He has nothing of substance to say becuase he doesn't know shit. Took his Microsoft stock options and retired to a mountain top in Washington trying to pretend to be a rugged shooter. He is half a fag and not fooling anyone. When he does shoot he fights for last place along with the other fruitcake he has on the show. Lucky for him fooling people is easy. The amount of dumb shits I hear reference him proves it.
 
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DeathBeforeDismount said:
Gavin never met a product he didn't fall in love with. He's your typical modern day whore after clicks. Casual people eat that shit up.

He has nothing of substance to say becuase he doesn't know shit. Took his Microsoft stock options and retired to a mountain top in Washington trying to pretend to be a rugged shooter. He is half a fag and not fooling anyone. When he does shoot he fights for last place along with the other fruitcake he has on the show. Lucky for him fooling people is easy. The amount of dumb shits I hear reference him proves it.
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I bet you’re a joy to be around…..
 
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"Its not heavy enough. Make it more heavy, and mote gamey"...

Accu intl are in the MIL/LE section, and as stated, mile high have stuff too.
 
Cascade Hemi said:
The CoAx handle is 14" higher than a Rock Chucker. It's a substantial difference, not "ever so slightly".
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They also offer a shorter ball handle as well as inline fabrication offers a roller handle option. Those options along with the original should cover most users preferences I'd think.
 
Jcarpenter223 said:
They also offer a shorter ball handle as well as inline fabrication offers a roller handle option. Those options along with the original should cover most users preferences I'd think.
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There is no way around the handle being mounted to the top of the press. Even the short CoAx ball handle is more than a foot higher than the handle of a traditional press. It only works if you have a short bench.
 
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