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Which one for rimfire PRS? Deuce? CZ457? T1x?

B

broekzwans

Private
Minuteman
Jun 3, 2018
6
17
of course it's another thread on what to buy for rimfire PRS, although this one might be a little different. As you can guess I'm into buying a rimfire for PRS since more and more matches are becoming available. I'm used to using airguns for this purpose but since we can't register them on a firearms passport in Europe I can only use them in a couple of countries (every country has different laws for them and some consider them firearms about a certain energy threshold).

In Europe the availability of Vudoo and RimX is practically non-existing unless you really go deep into importing etc so those are no options for now. What is then remaining in terms of availability is CZ457, Tikka T1x, Bergara B14s, Anschutz 1710 or the Ultimatum Deuce as barreled action. Since I don't really like spending money twice I'm doubting what to do here: go big or go home approach (cost wise) by choosing the Deuce + IBI barrel and have a remington 700 footprint with lots of options for chassis. CZ457 MTR and start building it out and upgrading it with a chassis etc. This will in the end most likely come down to the same cost as going for the Deuce but are they equal at that point? At least the cost gap from the start between these two can cover a lot of ammo to practice and what I noticed is that practice is the single most important thing to be competitive. A lilja or IBI pre-fit barrel should be relatively easy to obtain here in Europe but I think that's about it for a CZ457. For all other actions and barrels, and even for the CZ457, it will mostly come down to custom gunsmithing if I want something that is non-standard. Regarding the new Anschutz 1710 in the MDT ACC chassis, I like what I see there but if I look back on year of waiting time for my 1771 to arrive back then I'm not per se interested in that.. Therefore I'm almost settling for the Deuce or the CZ 457 MTR but can use some extra insights here.

So what would you guys advice in this case? If parts were as easily available as in the US it would be a lot easier to choose since it wouldn't really matter then but here lead times are long and parts are barely available. The end goal is to become competitive and start shooting matches internationally so that is what I'm trying to keep in mind.
 
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broekzwans said:
of course it's another thread on what to buy for rimfire PRS, although this one might be a little different. As you can guess I'm into buying a rimfire for PRS since more and more matches are becoming available. I'm used to using airguns for this purpose but since we can't register them on a firearms passport in Europe I can only use them in a couple of countries (every country has different laws for them and some consider them firearms about a certain energy threshold).

In Europe the availability of Vudoo and RimX is practically non-existing unless you really go deep into importing etc so those are no options for now. What is then remaining in terms of availability is CZ457, Tikka T1x, Bergara B14s, Anschutz 1710 or the Ultimatum Deuce as barreled action. Since I don't really like spending money twice I'm doubting what to do here: go big or go home approach (cost wise) by choosing the Deuce + IBI barrel and have a remington 700 footprint with lots of options for chassis. CZ457 MTR and start building it out and upgrading it with a chassis etc. This will in the end most likely come down to the same cost as going for the Deuce but are they equal at that point? At least the cost gap from the start between these two can cover a lot of ammo to practice and what I noticed is that practice is the single most important thing to be competitive. A lilja or IBI pre-fit barrel should be relatively easy to obtain here in Europe but I think that's about it for a CZ457. For all other actions and barrels, and even for the CZ457, it will mostly come down to custom gunsmithing if I want something that is non-standard. Regarding the new Anschutz 1710 in the MDT ACC chassis, I like what I see there but if I look back on year of waiting time for my 1771 to arrive back then I'm not per se interested in that.. Therefore I'm almost settling for the Deuce or the CZ 457 MTR but can use some extra insights here.

So what would you guys advice in this case? If parts were as easily available as in the US it would be a lot easier to choose since it wouldn't really matter then but here lead times are long and parts are barely available. The end goal is to become competitive and start shooting matches internationally so that is what I'm trying to keep in mind.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, tough question as I don’t quite know your exact priorities.
Surely one action is bound to be inherently best as far as delivering the most consistent primer strikes with least amount of resonance or bolt movement (likely advantage- Anschutz)
Barrel lengths, diameters, and weights have become more available than ever in the custom world. Remember you can also add weights if balancing is more important.
Of course with the trend in barricade events of either higher capacity mag demands, or mandatory magazine changes, mag sizes and styles will impact speed, as will mag wells, releases, and mag holsters or gun mounted mag mounts. What ever you choose, motor skills through repetition will improve speed.
Being in Europe, do you have the chassis choices available to you that you require, as well as triggers, grips, etc?
Any preferences for bolt lift in cycling the action?
It’s all deeply personal as this isn’t bench shooting. You have to run the gun, and may find yourself fighting what I prefer, or may do even better.
 
I've tried and like the CZ and Tikka. If you're doing aftermarket work anyways, not a real big difference. Seems like CZ has more parts to play with. I like the Tikka trigger a bit more and it's easy to adjust. For me it's a Coke v Pepsi debate.
 
I have a Bergara in an MPA chassis, though the factory stock wasn't too bad and it was easy to add an arca rail to it. That is what I'd do out of the choices above.
 
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At my local club the winner is usually between a handful of us shooting either a Vudoo, RimX, or CZ. And it often comes down to a single plate or the bonus time. Just saying that the rifle brand seems to be more and more of a wash these days, and it mainly comes down to who is having a better day with wind calls. Just about all of the rifles have after-market barrels on them, with longer and heavier contour becoming more common. Oddly enough, Tikka’s aren’t that well represented at my club.

Sounds like after-market barrels are available where the OP is in Europe. I would go with whatever brand has the best after-market support for you (barrels, triggers, chassis or stock). My shooting improved when I went to a rifle with a 22” 1.200 profile barrel since it balanced better.
 
Good point on balance. Either a longer, heavier barrel, or if running a chassis then companies make weights that can be added on.
 
Before I got to the last couple of posts I was already thinking about balance. 100% agreed that you'll be better served by a platform that is well-suited to (or better, ships with) a heavy 22"+ barrel. I don't think any of the factory options ship with the kind of barrel configuration that is best for positional precision shooting, so that leans you towards the Deuce, or adding a $500-900 USD barrel to your cost estimate.
 
I’m also curious why not the bergara BA and dropped in the chassis of your choice?
 
I've written about it multiple times , but I have or have had the 457, T1x and Vudoo 360.

First got the CZ and it is a great rifle. Replaced the trigger spring for less than $10, and it's a shooter. Very precise rifle. Smooth bolt, very nice trigger, and the stock varmint barrel works. I am thinking about rebarreling to 22" an a little heavier for better balance.

Then I got the T1x and set it up identically to the CZ. It just wasn't as nice. Precision was good, but just slightly less than the CZ. It was sold pretty quickly.

Got a Vudoo. It shoots great. I also with I would have gone 22" on the barrel for better balance, but it's a great rifle. But its very picky about ammo. The Vudoo is a lefty, since that's what I shoot. The CZ is a righty and my son's.

The last time we went out, he out shot me. He was shooting bulk standard velocity ammo. I was ammo testing and my vudoo did not like the stuff I took that day.

I'd say CZ all day for you. It doesn't give up much at all to my Vudoo.
 
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broekzwans said:
of course it's another thread on what to buy for rimfire PRS, although this one might be a little different. As you can guess I'm into buying a rimfire for PRS since more and more matches are becoming available. I'm used to using airguns for this purpose but since we can't register them on a firearms passport in Europe I can only use them in a couple of countries (every country has different laws for them and some consider them firearms about a certain energy threshold).

In Europe the availability of Vudoo and RimX is practically non-existing unless you really go deep into importing etc so those are no options for now. What is then remaining in terms of availability is CZ457, Tikka T1x, Bergara B14s, Anschutz 1710 or the Ultimatum Deuce as barreled action. Since I don't really like spending money twice I'm doubting what to do here: go big or go home approach (cost wise) by choosing the Deuce + IBI barrel and have a remington 700 footprint with lots of options for chassis. CZ457 MTR and start building it out and upgrading it with a chassis etc. This will in the end most likely come down to the same cost as going for the Deuce but are they equal at that point? At least the cost gap from the start between these two can cover a lot of ammo to practice and what I noticed is that practice is the single most important thing to be competitive. A lilja or IBI pre-fit barrel should be relatively easy to obtain here in Europe but I think that's about it for a CZ457. For all other actions and barrels, and even for the CZ457, it will mostly come down to custom gunsmithing if I want something that is non-standard. Regarding the new Anschutz 1710 in the MDT ACC chassis, I like what I see there but if I look back on year of waiting time for my 1771 to arrive back then I'm not per se interested in that.. Therefore I'm almost settling for the Deuce or the CZ 457 MTR but can use some extra insights here.

So what would you guys advice in this case? If parts were as easily available as in the US it would be a lot easier to choose since it wouldn't really matter then but here lead times are long and parts are barely available. The end goal is to become competitive and start shooting matches internationally so that is what I'm trying to keep in mind.
Click to expand...

In Europe, Anschutz might be most race ready out of the box.
Anschutz that fell out of a truck and was driven over will still outshoot most other rimfires . They also feed well
Custom actions without good rimfire smith will not be on par with an Anschutz
 
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Thank you guys for the replies!

Some things to mention here:
  • Bergara's availability here isn't that great so getting a barreled action will be a custom request with ages of delivery time so that is practically off the list
  • CZ and it's customizations are practically readily available so that is definitely a good option in that sense
  • Anschutz is definitely one of the best buys for accuracy that I have seen at our club, some can easily stay within 1/2 MOA at 100 meters (indoor range) but all of them are single shot versions. Have heard some mixed stories about their 1761 action in terms of feeding issues but the action looks good, the 1710 APR is nice with the MDT stock but don't see any offered here yet for some reason (and MSRP is around 4k). A 1727 would be a great action but in combination with a chassis I'm not sure if that action will work well in terms of handling.
  • Ultimatum Deuce + IBI barrel is not directly available but there importing from Germany isn't a problem since there is a company there who does the importing.
  • the Victrix Venus Pro SB can also be an option but I rarely ever see any reports about it. Heard some feeding issues there as well but can't confirm that myself.
What I'm looking for is indeed a rimfire that is able to balance properly (even if some weights are needed as long as I don't need to attach a boat anchor to the front to get it balanced), 10 shots magazines, preferably 60 degree bolt thrown or close to that and a smooth action and it must be able to fit in a chassis.
 
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broekzwans said:
Thank you guys for the replies!

Some things to mention here:
  • Bergara's availability here isn't that great so getting a barreled action will be a custom request with ages of delivery time so that is practically off the list
  • CZ and it's customizations are practically readily available so that is definitely a good option in that sense
  • Anschutz is definitely one of the best buys for accuracy that I have seen at our club, some can easily stay within 1/2 MOA at 100 meters but all of them are single shot versions. Have heard some mixed stories about their 1761 action in terms of feeding issues but the action looks good, the 1710 APR is nice with the MDT stock but don't see any offered here yet for some reason (and MSRP is around 4k). A 1727 would be a great action but in combination with a chassis I'm not sure if that action will work well in terms of handling.
  • Ultimatum Deuce + IBI barrel is not directly available but there importing from Germany isn't a problem since there is a company there who does the importing.
  • the Victrix Venus Pro SB can also be an option but I rarely ever see any reports about it. Heard some feeding issues there as well but can't confirm that myself.
What I'm looking for is indeed a rimfire that is able to balance properly (even if some weights are needed as long as I don't need to attach a boat anchor to the front to get it balanced), 10 shots magazines, preferably 60 degree bolt thrown or close to that and a smooth action and it must be able to fit in a chassis.
Click to expand...
Strong point on the single shots. I'm going to a PRS 22 match on Sunday and out of the 9 stages 5 of them are 10 rounds in 105 seconds and the other 4 are 15-16 rounds in the same 105 seconds. No way someone's cleaning it with a single shot at different distances going one round at a time.
 
broekzwans said:
Thank you guys for the replies!

Some things to mention here:
  • Bergara's availability here isn't that great so getting a barreled action will be a custom request with ages of delivery time so that is practically off the list
  • CZ and it's customizations are practically readily available so that is definitely a good option in that sense
  • Anschutz is definitely one of the best buys for accuracy that I have seen at our club, some can easily stay within 1/2 MOA at 100 meters (indoor range) but all of them are single shot versions. Have heard some mixed stories about their 1761 action in terms of feeding issues but the action looks good, the 1710 APR is nice with the MDT stock but don't see any offered here yet for some reason (and MSRP is around 4k). A 1727 would be a great action but in combination with a chassis I'm not sure if that action will work well in terms of handling.
  • Ultimatum Deuce + IBI barrel is not directly available but there importing from Germany isn't a problem since there is a company there who does the importing.
  • the Victrix Venus Pro SB can also be an option but I rarely ever see any reports about it. Heard some feeding issues there as well but can't confirm that myself.
What I'm looking for is indeed a rimfire that is able to balance properly (even if some weights are needed as long as I don't need to attach a boat anchor to the front to get it balanced), 10 shots magazines, preferably 60 degree bolt thrown or close to that and a smooth action and it must be able to fit in a chassis.
Click to expand...
Sounds like the CZ is your best bet. And no, you won’t be undergunned.
 
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Thanks again for all the replies, going for the CZ457 MTR. The matches here are now starting soon so it's best to get started and if I ever run into something that I like to see improved it is available at least. Who knows if I'll end up with a custom action in the end but for now this should be more than sufficient (y)
 
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Here is what I have done to my CZ 457. 22in Lilja barrel, Timney Triggerand Pete's Pilar firing pin. No just GCP Rifle Company Vision chassis.
 
I like my B14r a lot better than my CZ but I have been trying to do better with CZ to be just a competive with B14r but its not as I score much higher with b14r.
 
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Sblzrd65 said:
Strong point on the single shots. I'm going to a PRS 22 match on Sunday and out of the 9 stages 5 of them are 10 rounds in 105 seconds and the other 4 are 15-16 rounds in the same 105 seconds. No way someone's cleaning it with a single shot at different distances going one round at a time.
Click to expand...

I assume you mean bolt action when you say single shot. It depends on the COF, 10 rounds is certainly possible. Last match we had five targets from 175-350, two shots on each in 90 seconds. I don't get to shoot regularly but still got off all my rounds and made both hits at the farthest distance shooting a bergara bolt action.
 
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NewsShooter said:
I assume you mean bolt action when you say single shot. It depends on the COF, 10 rounds is certainly possible. Last match we had five targets from 175-350, two shots on each in 90 seconds. I don't get to shoot regularly but still got off all my rounds and made both hits at the farthest distance shooting a bergara bolt action.
Click to expand...
Actually did mean single shot bolts as the OP mentioned above. The "old school" Anschütz type precision rimfire matches used single shot rifles, either with no magazine or a magazine blocked to hold only one. They're old school classics and very accurate, but hand loading one round at a time when the goal is say 10 in 105 seconds isn't realistically happening. Now any of the relatively more modern bolt actions with box magazines that hold 10-15, 100% they be run fast and well to get rounds off in time.
 
I'd also vote for CZ. Off the options, it has the best aftermarket support outside of a R700 footprint option but at a lower cost in most cases. Been incredibly happy with the quality and availability of parts for them.
 
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My ultimatum deuce/ibi is one of the most accurate rifles I own. It was my main comp gun last season and it impressed me everytime I took it out. I love my vudoo and rimx as well but the deuce took lead for main gun last year. That said they do have feeding issues and magazines can be a problem. Because parts and pieces, mags and accessories are harder to get in Europe I would vote for a cz. Owning all 3 customs, the deuxe, vudoo and rimx they are all great in there own way but the cz hangs right there with them. I would still choose a custom over a cz for some of the other benefits but accuracy and reliability isn’t one of them. The cz’s flat out shoot and feed so well! Its a great option
 
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Great choice on the CZ. Annie 10 round magazines suck under the clock and for moving stages. The 1712 is my favorite squirrel rifle, and the 1710 is my goto for local benchrest matches, but when it comes to local PRS type events, I grab the CZ every time.
 
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Mr.BR said:
In Europe, Anschutz might be most race ready out of the box.
Anschutz that fell out of a truck and was driven over will still outshoot most other rimfires . They also feed well
Custom actions without good rimfire smith will not be on par with an Anschutz
Click to expand...
 
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