New 6mm Advanced Rifle Cartridge

tps344 said:

I did some more shooting today. Trying to learn how to shoot, and learn how to get better.

These groups are all at 100 yards, and in a seated at a bench shooting position.

5-6 shot groups.

6MM ARC Hornady ELD-X
6MM ARC Hornady Black

I feel like these groups are really bad for a 20” AR15, even for a new rifle shooter. But I may be wrong.

I am going to try prone shooting next time for best results. I always forget to bring stuff to shoot prone with.

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I can relate ...

been there, done that.

Thanks everyone, I will try shooting prone next time with a rear bag. I am absolutely new to rifle shooting with a scope. I have never shot for groups with a centerfire rifle before In my life. I have been all about pistol shooting.

I had a pretty good 4 shot group week before last using Hornady black, 3 of which were single ragged holes. But I think I just got lucky.

I’m really hoping I can manage like 1.5-1.75” accuracy consistently using 8X magnification. My 6 shot groups are hovering around 2.15-3.00” range lol. (In which I feel like I am really focusing hard and trying to accomplish even this)

The gun seems accurate when I am shooting small 5” steel plates at 100 yards on the first shot and all subsequent shots. I think I just really suck at shooting groups. I also think a small bipod, and a 1/2” cheek riser would do wonders.

tps344 said:

Thanks everyone, I will try shooting prone next time with a rear bag. I am absolutely new to rifle shooting with a scope. I have never shot for groups with a centerfire rifle before In my life. I have been all about pistol shooting.

I had a pretty good 4 shot group week before last using Hornady black, 3 of which were single ragged holes. But I think I just got lucky.

I’m really hoping I can manage like 1.5-1.75” accuracy consistently using 8X magnification. My 6 shot groups are hovering around 2.15-3.00” range lol.

The gun seems accurate when I am shooting small 5” steel plates at 100 yards on the first shot and all subsequent shots. I think I just really suck at shooting groups. I also think a small bipod, and a 1/2” cheek riser would do wonders.

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Yes a good bi-pod will make a difference. Skip wasting money on a mag pull bi-pod & just get an Atlas cal.
It's often overlooked for AR's, but It's a good idea to use a stock designed to give good support for a rear bag.

This is a Vltor Imod Clubfoot stock & Atlas cal for visual.

Accu-Tac BR4 or FD4 is a great bipod and I prefer it to Atlas personally. There’s usually some in the PX for sale for $250ish. You don’t have to shoot prone just use a rear bag while seated on the bench as that will be more comfortable while you learn proper technique. AR rifles require a little different technique to Han a bolt gun. There’s a lot of discussion on that if you use the search function and also watch some videos.

When shooting from the bench I much prefer a front bench rest such as a protektor or similar with a rear bag. Shooting prone I like bipod and rear bag

late to the party, just got a howa bolt gun in 6arc. plan to use 90gr cx and 95gr lrx , which powder is better to begin with? aa2520 / cfe223 / lvr ?

“Parquet no Los Tres?”

Seriously though, LVR and CFE223 are really good fits in 6ARC across a wide variety of bullet weights, and AA2520 is a good fit for the bullets you list. If it were me, I’d load up a simple coarse pressure ladder for each and see what each offers for velocity/pressure range and go from there.

I have a couple different 6 ARC guns. One is an APF gun that they build with an 18” CF Proof. It shoots usually somewhere between .5 and .75 with the loads it likes. It doesn’t care much for the factory offerings. Then I have a Savage 110 Switchback that I picked up at Sportsman’s Warehouse. In the Tupperware factory stock, it’ll shoot some good and some bad. Moved it over to an MDT ACC that I have from a different Savage factory gun. It will shoot decent with handloads and again, not much better than .75’s or so with factory ammo. I have a dasher as well so the ARC bolt gun fits into kind of a weird spot. But I keep it because it’s so damn easy to shoot. It gets ran with a Resonator K exclusively and it’s so easy on the ears and shoulder for my wife or kids. Anyways, here are some recent bolt gun loads. No velocity readings were taken. The magneto speed sporter and a suppressor don’t play the best together. The H before the primer type stands for Hornady brass. I have 250 Starline on b/o right now. Can’t wait to get them in. The Hornady brass is shit in my opinion. Push it at all and the primer pockets are shot. Any questions, just ask.






the APF on a poverty pony so I could shoot it with the prs gen 3 vs the lite I normally use.

357Max said:

Yes a good bi-pod will make a difference. Skip wasting money on a mag pull bi-pod & just get an Atlas cal.
It's often overlooked for AR's, but It's a good idea to use a stock designed to give good support for a rear bag.

This is a Vltor Imod Clubfoot stock & Atlas cal for visual.


View attachment 8213643

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Yup. The VLTOR Clubfoot, Daniel Defense, and LaRue stocks are good for bag-riding. For fixed, the Magpul PRS is nice for riding the bag.

DD actually gives you some stock lift with recoil since it acts like a wedge/ramp countering muzzle rise.



LaRue RAT has just enough of a flat toe to stick in the bag and not slide off like most carbine stocks, and it’s made of very substantial polymer with a cool adjustment and removal system that doesn’t require any real effort. I have 2 of the old school VLTOR Clubfoot stocks that are lighter weight, not as strong as the IMOD:




For bipods, I use a lot of Harris and the new TBAC bipod. The TBAC bipod is pretty sick, has a wide cradle, and is one-hand friendly for making adjustments on the fly.

LRRPF52 said:

The TBAC bipod is pretty sick, has a wide cradle, and is one-hand friendly for making adjustments on the fly.

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I need to check out one of those TBAC's

Gtscotty said:

With hunting season coming up, I got the itch to try a copper bullet in my 18" LW ARC, as well as a replacement for the 100gr TGK I used last year since I can't seem to find any anymore. Was glad to see that the 103gr ELDX liked the 29.3gr sweet spot of LVR just like the TGK and 108s.…

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I have been trying to get a hunting load together with the Berger 108 elite hunters for a while. Been a little frustrated I couldn’t find a good load considering my rifle shoots the 109s so well. So I saw your post and decided to just quickly try out the 103 eld x over 29.3 of lvr.
Yeah, that might just be an “optimum charge weight”, especially if I could shoot 5 shots well.

I was testing seating a little after a few promising shots. Magneto said it was running 2750 avg. out of my 22” rock creek. I can certainly hunt with this. 2 weeks to rifle season.

Thanks for the inspiration Gtscotty!

Well I've been kicking around this build long enough.... I ordered up a x-caliber barrel on halloween with their 30% off sale. Sounds like it should/could possibly show up the 1st week of january.

Specs are:
416R Stainless Steel
Length: 24"
Contours: AR15 Heavy .980, .875GB, 850
Straight 8 Flute
Twist Rate:1:7" Twist 5R Groove
Gas System: Rifle + 2"
Gas Block Journal (Length): 1.92"
Gas Port Options: Will Use Adjustable Gas Block (Slightly Oversized Port)
Muzzle / Crown: 3/4"x24 Threads

I'll be interested to see what it weighs...

Had my first slam fire today…I can not get a round to fully chamber when dropping the bolt and feeding from a mag. So, I hand loaded one into the chamber and dropped the bolt, and pow!

What’s the most consistently reliable mags for 6ARC? It seems like a good bit of people have had problems with Elander mags from the little I’ve seen. Only looking at 10rd and 17rd mags. Are ASC general GTG?

redneckbmxer24 said:

What’s the most consistently reliable mags for 6ARC? It seems like a good bit of people have had problems with Elander mags from the little I’ve seen. Only looking at 10rd and 17rd mags. Are ASC general GTG?

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I’ve had no problems with ASC in my Seekins gas gun.

Bluedog82 said:

Had my first slam fire today…I can not get a round to fully chamber when dropping the bolt and feeding from a mag. So, I hand loaded one into the chamber and dropped the bolt, and pow!

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Factory ammo or hand loads? Two things that immediately come to mind is firing pin is out of spec in relation to the bolt face or the primers aren't seated deep enough.

redneckbmxer24 said:

What’s the most consistently reliable mags for 6ARC? It seems like a good bit of people have had problems with Elander mags from the little I’ve seen. Only looking at 10rd and 17rd mags. Are ASC general GTG?

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I've got no hands on experience yet but the asc mags seamed to be kind of hit or miss, the duramags seamed to be the most reliable when I was reading up on them. So I bought a few of the 20rnd duramags before our mag ban went into effect.

Had anyone received a die that is too short? I in my whole life of loading (20 years) have never had a whole batch of loaded rounds that wouldn’t chamber in any 6arc I tried. I purchased a forested full length die and it’s not sizing the case enough to allow it to chamber.

Capri_Man said:

Factory ammo or hand loads? Two things that immediately come to mind is firing pin is out of spec in relation to the bolt face or the primers aren't seated deep enough.



I've got no hands on experience yet but the asc mags seamed to be kind of hit or miss, the duramags seamed to be the most reliable when I was reading up on them. So I bought a few of the 20rnd duramags before our mag ban went into effect.

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Handloads. I did it multiple times and it only happened once, so it’s possible I just didn’t seat it deep enough.

Capri_Man said:

Well I've been kicking around this build long enough.... I ordered up a x-caliber barrel on halloween with their 30% off sale. Sounds like it should/could possibly show up the 1st week of january.

Specs are:
416R Stainless Steel
Length: 24"
Contours: AR15 Heavy .980, .875GB, 850
Straight 8 Flute
Twist Rate:1:7" Twist 5R Groove
Gas System: Rifle + 2"
Gas Block Journal (Length): 1.92"
Gas Port Options: Will Use Adjustable Gas Block (Slightly Oversized Port)
Muzzle / Crown: 3/4"x24 Threads

I'll be interested to see what it weighs...

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Awesome! I ordered a 6.5 creedmoor barrel from X-Caliber on their Labor Day sale and it came the first week of October. About half the estimated lead time.

cypriss32 said:

Had anyone received a die that is too short? I in my whole life of loading (20 years) have never had a whole batch of loaded rounds that wouldn’t chamber in any 6arc I tried. I purchased a forested full length die and it’s not sizing the case enough to allow it to chamber.

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It could also be your shell holder not playing well with that die.

If the shell holder is too tall, it won’t allow full-length sizing enough to move the shoulder and body where it needs to go.

Forster normally makes high-end reloading tools.

LRRPF52 said:

It could also be your shell holder not playing well with that die.

If the shell holder is too tall, it won’t allow full-length sizing enough to move the shoulder and body where it needs to go.

Forster normally makes high-end reloading tools.

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Bingo! I had the exact same same issue with 223 using rcbs dies and shell holder. I ended up putting a bit of 400 grit sand paper on a flat surface and sanding the shell holder till the issue went away.

stevieb92 said:

Awesome! I ordered a 6.5 creedmoor barrel from X-Caliber on their Labor Day sale and it came the first week of October. About half the estimated lead time.

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That would amazing, I'd end up with it before christmas! I've got my receiver set, LPK, trigger, pistol grip, and buffer assembly. I still need the adjustable gas block, gas tube, hand guard, stock, and scope....

Just posted a short video of me shooting my 6mm ARC build at the 600 yard KYL rack at MKM Precision. I'm still shooting Hornady factory ammo but will be handloading soon. Thanks for checking out the video!

Capri_Man said:

Well I've been kicking around this build long enough.... I ordered up a x-caliber barrel on halloween with their 30% off sale. Sounds like it should/could possibly show up the 1st week of january.

Specs are:
416R Stainless Steel
Length: 24"
Contours: AR15 Heavy .980, .875GB, 850
Straight 8 Flute
Twist Rate:1:7" Twist 5R Groove
Gas System: Rifle + 2"
Gas Block Journal (Length): 1.92"
Gas Port Options: Will Use Adjustable Gas Block (Slightly Oversized Port)
Muzzle / Crown: 3/4"x24 Threads

I'll be interested to see what it weighs...

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Ordered one during that sale as well and got it last week, surprised me! I went with 16" and am trying to find my Geissele barrel nut wrench so I can install it.

Also picked up an Origin action during black friday that I'll be building into an ARC. Planning on getting the 16.5" Proof MTR barrel for it and building something light and handy for predator hunting.

godofthunder said:

Ordered one during that sale as well and got it last week, surprised me! I went with 16" and am trying to find my Geissele barrel nut wrench so I can install it.

Also picked up an Origin action during black friday that I'll be building into an ARC. Planning on getting the 16.5" Proof MTR barrel for it and building something light and handy for predator hunting.

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With being 16" I'm kinda not surprised you got it already. They probably keep a healthy stock of them on hand to spin up. Where Mines kind of an odd ball which I haven't received yet. But I didn't really expect to see it till after the 1st of the year. I did how ever mock up my mega receivers with the prs lite and white oak 14.5" handguard.

A little feedback so far after two range trips.

I almost didn’t buy an ARC because of some people in this thread claiming it’s notoriously dirty amongst other issues.

I’m 320 rounds in on mine and just cleaned it. Every round has fed rounds from the mags (duramag 10’s and 20’s) and ejected 100%. The ONLY issue I’ve experienced was after the first 40 rounds or so the bolt stopped going fully into battery because the extractor wasn’t popping around the rim when dropping the bolt on a fresh mag about 50% of the time. The rifle cycling itself it never did it and has ran flawlessly. I popped the extractor off the other night and there was a good bit of brass shavings in it and it was somewhat sticky when working it by hand. I cleaned them out and it’s smooth now. No burr on the extractor, so if there was one causing brass to shave it’s now gone.

I just fully cleaned the BCG, upper, barrel, and lower and I can say 100% that this thing is not any dirtier than a 223 shooting suppressed with good ammo like federal LE or black hills. A 223 with crap ammo is way way worse. Overall I’d say suppressed with the Hornady ammo is on the cleaner side of what I’m used to.

I’m not going to clean again until the 1K mark unless it gives me a reason to which will be about twice as many rounds as I’ve fired before this cleaning. I like to keep my precision gassers pretty clean so I generally do it every couple hundred rounds unless I just don’t have the opportunity but it will be nice knowing if it can make it longer if need be.

Yeah, your brass was way cleaner than the Valkyrie brass I see laying all over the place.
Grendel brass looks about the same as yours.
223/5.56 is almost always filthy.

Shooting 6ARC with LVR is really dirty, even without a suppressor. But damn, it performs so well for a small frame AR.

Dogtown said:

Shooting 6ARC with LVR is really dirty, even without a suppressor. But damn, it performs so well for a small frame AR.

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I can't discount what you and other have said about Lever being really dirty, but I just don't see it. I use Lever in my 6 ARC, suppressed, and it's not significantly dirtier than other powders and it's far cleaner than whatever blend Hornady is using in their 6 ARC ammo. Agreed that it performs really well......it gives great velocity and low SDs.

Yeah, it's one of those powders that's perfectly optimized for a cartridge, like N570 is for .300NM.

The mail man brought the xcaliber barrel and BCG for the 6mm ARC today. My curiosity couldn't wait so I grabbed the scale and the barrel with the break comes in at ruffly 4lbs 5oz. Ah hell might as well mock up the whole gun minus some small parts and the buffer weight/spring...... and survey says.... 9.5lbs. So it will definitely be a 10lb rifle before the scope.

Capri_Man said:

The mail man brought the xcaliber barrel and BCG for the 6mm ARC today. My curiosity couldn't wait so I grabbed the scale and the barrel with the break comes in at ruffly 4lbs 5oz. Ah hell might as well mock up the whole gun minus some small parts and the buffer weight/spring...... and survey says.... 9.5lbs. So it will definitely be a 10lb rifle before the scope.


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that's a hefty-looking barrel, what's the gas-block journal? .875" or .936"? probably the main factor for weight. and the not-so-light PRS-Lite.


but still lighter than a comparable large-frame AR in 6.5CM with similar specs.

rpoL98 said:

that's a hefty-looking barrel, what's the gas-block journal? .875" or .936"? probably the main factor for weight. and the not-so-light PRS-Lite.


but still lighter than a comparable large-frame AR in 6.5CM with similar specs.

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It's .875" at the gas block. Xcaliber calls it his AR15 Heavy profile at .980, .875GB, 850. I thought about going with his SPR profile at .980, .850, .750 gas block, ending .730 but I felt it would whip around to much if I ever get a suppressor. The other thing that is hurting me for weight is the receiver set being heavier billet. I do have a aero precision receiver set I can weigh to see just what kind of difference there is. But I will say that right now it balances really nice in the hand. The point seams to be just foward of the mag well, which I'm sure will shift toward the stock once the buffer and Spring goes in

Picked up a 16” X-Caliber barrel in their Halloween sale to replace my 18” BA. Also got a Xero so was excited to see how the two compared with velocity.

Both shooting the same lot of factory 108 ELD Match.
Both shooting suppressed with OCL POLONIUM
This was the first 13 shots from the 16” - average 2553
The 18” had about 300rds down it - average 2543

So I gained 10fps, lost 2” of barrel length and lost 15.1oz of weight. Seems like a win-win-win to me.

I also put my 1-6 Razor Gen2-E on it, as it will be mostly used for coyote hunting in eastern Nebraska - aka majority of my shots are under 100. I feel like I want more on the top end but not sure if I should go nx8 1-8 or maybe go nx8 2.5-20 and miss out on the low end.

godofthunder said:

So I gained 10fps, lost 2” of barrel length and lost 15.1oz of weight. Seems like a win-win-win to me.

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Why I always laugh when someone fanbois for a slightly longer barrel like it's guaranteed velocity then act like it's some sort of big game changer.

Using LVR I had issues with the gas tube clogged up and keeping the action from running - but that was at about 2k rounds. Replace gas tube and it runs again.

Dogtown said:

Shooting 6ARC with LVR is really dirty, even without a suppressor. But damn, it performs so well for a small frame AR.

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IME (I've been wildcatting with Lever long before the 6ARC came out) this is only the case if you're not pushing the pressure high enough. Hotter = cleaner for this stuff, and if you're not pushing for max velocity, there's no good reason to use Lever anyway; stick to something like 8208.

Lever is as clean as anything else when used for top end loads, which is what it's good for. It's not a good powder for mild loads; that makes it dirty and accuracy and consistency both suffer as well.

With loads appropriate to Lever, my AR brass is nearly bolt-action clean, whether that's for a Grendel case variant, 5.56, or anything else.

Interesting. I’m running 30.3gr LVR with 110 A-Tips, which is about as much as I can pack in there. LVR definitely likes to run hot and I get better ES/SD as I approach case fill limits. It’s a pretty weird powder in that regard.

Rob01 said:

The .266 giving you .003 neck tension? For a semi or bolt? I measured mine and my loaded Hornady ammo is .269 area. I used a .268 bushing I had as my .267 was in my other die and it felt pretty good when seating the dummy round I made.

And I am using those same Hornady dies and they are nice. A decent set to get you rolling in loading for not much and will still load good ammo is the Hornady Lock N Load kit. You will have to add some other smaller tools but it gets you going.

Hornady Lock-N-Load Classic Single Stage Press Kit

The Hornady Lock-N-Load Classic Press Kit is a great kit to get started in reloading. If you are a new reloader you will love the ease of use the...

www.midwayusa.com

Or this one.

Hornady Lock-N-Load Classic Single Stage Press Deluxe Kit

The Hornady Lock-N-Load Classic Press Deluxe Kit is a great kit to get started in reloading. The Classic Press is packed full of features, including an...

www.midwayusa.com

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With the SAC .266 bushing in Hornady match FL sizing die from factory 108 eldm out of an ar15, I'm getting much more neck movement. My ballistic tool neck guage doesn't get small enough to measure, but opening the neck with a .2400 mandrel measures .2390. The Lee FL sizing die leaves the nec at .2400.

I got an email notification this afternoon from Starline that 6ARC brass is available for backorder.
I was kinda waiting to buy some Peterson 6ARC brass, but I'm no longer confident as to when their release date is going to be.

rpoL98 said:

placed a back-order with Starline for 6ARC brass back in Sept (end-of-month), 3 months ago. now being shipped. just an FYI.

I guess it's been a while since I placed the order, so the CC authorization had expired. I got an email asking me for CC information, sure looked like scam/fraud. Had to go on their website and poke around to verify bonafides, and then make a phone call and talk to a human to renew my CC authorization. I don't like to give CC info over the phone anymore, it's a different era.

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just fyi. placed the back-order in Sept 2023; shipped & delivered Jan 2024.

hertz654 said:

I got an email notification this afternoon from Starline that 6ARC brass is available for backorder.
I was kinda waiting to buy some Peterson 6ARC brass, but I'm no longer confident as to when their release date is going to be.

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Starline 6ARC was about 2 or 3 weeks on my last order in the fall. I just got some 6.5CM that took over a month to get here. I prepped and primed it all yesterday - ready to drop powder. Back when I was converting Starline 6.5 Grendel I got a big (for me) order of 2000 new cases. I was so excited, I opened them with my 16" bayonet, poured them on the living room floor and made some brass angels.

Geissele has all variations of their GFR and the $80-110 6mm ARC mags listed on their site now.

$4K for a rifle and a few mags

The retards will buy them though.

redneckbmxer24 said:

$4K for a rifle and a few mags

The retards will buy them though.

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Already priced in Black Friday discount.

TheOE800 said:

Geissele has all variations of their GFR and the $80-110 6mm ARC mags listed on their site now.

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govt .mil contracts will buy those mags at those prices, not even blink an eye. using our taxpayer money. spending Other Peoples Money.

Yea those mag prices are silly.