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Blueprinted Remington action vs

Mj30wilson900

Mj30wilson900

Sergeant of the Hide
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    • Jul 25, 2020
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    Why would anyone choose to blueprint a Remington 700 action over buying a custom action like defiance or bat etc?

    With the tighter tolerances and attention to detail of a custom action I personally would choose to just buy a custom action over putting money into a Remington but year after year I see people buying cheap 700 rifles to get the action to accurize. They end up spending just as much as a custom action by the time the gunsmith is done and newer aftermarket parts are in place.

    What am I missing here.
     
    Mj30wilson900 said:
    Why would anyone choose to blueprint a Remington 700 action over buying a custom action like defiance or bat etc?

    With the tighter tolerances and attention to detail of a custom action I personally would choose to just buy a custom action over putting money into a Remington but year after year I see people buying cheap 700 rifles to get the action to accurize. They end up spending just as much as a custom action by the time the gunsmith is done and newer aftermarket parts are in place.

    What am I missing here.
    Click to expand...
    You must be the only post I’ve seen in all the years I’ve been here bringing up people suggesting a trued 700 over a custom aftermarket

    My time here has shown the results to be the exact opposite of what’s used or recommended here

    Personally I’d never stick a dime into a factory 700 with what’s on the market for actions today.
     
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    hafejd30 said:
    You must be the only post I’ve seen in all the years I’ve been here bringing up people suggesting a trued 700 over a custom aftermarket

    My time here has shown the results to be the exact opposite of what’s used or recommended here

    Personally I’d never stick a dime into a factory 700 with what’s on the market for actions today.
    Click to expand...
    That is exactly what I am saying. Is it the strength of the three rings of steel marketing that strong to sway people into rebuilding them?
     
    The only reason I can think of is spare parts availability might be greater for a factory 700 action in the long term compared to a smaller company that makes custom actions that might contain proprietary parts.

    With supply chain concerns, maybe this is a driver?

    -Stan
     
    Mj30wilson900 said:
    That is exactly what I am saying. Is it the strength of the three rings of steel marketing that strong to sway people into rebuilding them?
    Click to expand...
    Some may prefer them I don’t know

    I prefer shorter bolt throw. Also by the time most people upgrade things like extractors, 8-40 base screws, truing etc etc they’d end up at the same cost as a decent custom action

    That custom action will also yield more $$ in resale value. A R700 will always be an R700. The more money you stick in the more money you’ll loose when you resell.

    Work done or a barreled action from someone like GAP or tacops may be worth something. But if you have a no name smith do the work you’ll get the factory action pricing regardless
     
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    Mj30wilson900 said:
    That is exactly what I am saying. Is it the strength of the three rings of steel marketing that strong to sway people into rebuilding them?
    Click to expand...
    No. They just don’t know any better.

    The vast majority of the market is still the off-the-shelf-from-Cabelas guy. Until relatively recently, you walk in to a big box retail store and the guy behind the counter is 60, a 20 rounds a year hunter, and still says “Remington 700”. Likewise your dad, your buddy the “gun guy” (by which we mean a dude who owns an AR but knows next to nothing about the state of the art bolt gun), or the retired army guy, Vietnam era, you met at the range you stopped in at because you were curious.

    Very few people have the good fortune to start their rifle journey at SnipersHide or by meeting someone who knows anything about custom actions.
     
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    OREGUN said:
    Why do so many gun range guys wear khaki cargo shorts and Velcro shoes?
    Click to expand...

    :oops: ..... as I quietly throw my khaki cargo shorts in the garbage.

    I had 1 700 LA trued and re-barreled. It shoots great, but as stated above, for just a few pennies more a custom action is the better long term option.

    I've since switched to making my 700 actions a Remage with a BugNut as a less expensive alternative.

    At some point in most people's lives, they stop keeping up with advancements and go buy Velcro shoes. Whatever era they're in when they hit the pause button is the era they stay in.

    Last year a buddy of mine (non-shooter) asked where he could get the best price on a Leupy Mk4 mil/moa. I just hung up on him.
     
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    After truing one myself, I have to agree. If I wasn't doing my own work, I'd just buy a custom action. I've always wanted to learn how build my own custom rifles and its been a fun learning experience. I will say, for the money spent on tooling, I could have had a couple nice rifles built by a professional Smith. But I had a good time doing it and I learned a new set of skills.

    If I need another action in the future I'll probably buy a custom and do my own barrel work. But there again, for the price of a blank and a reamer, I can almost buy a prefit.

    After watching the Jim Borden interview with Eric cortina, it's got me really wanting to try one of his actions. Either that or a CDG.
     
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    We've discussed this before, for example
    www.snipershide.com

    Blueprint or custom action for Remington 700?

    I have a Remington 700 SPS Varmint 308 (26" bull barrel) that I put a Krg Bravo and ELF 700 trigger on. Love the gun but the action sucks. Firing pin won't stay back reliably if I work the action too hard. Love the barrel though. Regularly within 1/2 MOA. I found out to solve the action issue I...
    www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com

    I stopped buying factory actions about 10 years ago. Gunsmiths post that even the custom stuff needs a little work but my experience with Lone Peak and Defiance has been that they needed nothing. My next one will probably be a Mack Bros for a lower cost 223 build.
     
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    XP1K said:
    After truing one myself, I have to agree. If I wasn't doing my own work, I'd just buy a custom action. I've always wanted to learn how build my own custom rifles and its been a fun learning experience. I will say, for the money spent on tooling, I could have had a couple nice rifles built by a professional Smith. But I had a good time doing it and I learned a new set of skills.

    If I need another action in the future I'll probably buy a custom and do my own barrel work. But there again, for the price of a blank and a reamer, I can almost buy a prefit.

    After watching the Jim Borden interview with Eric cortina, it's got me really wanting to try one of his actions. Either that or a CDG.
    Click to expand...
    I have a Borden action. It’s something else. You should do it.
     
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    $350 true action
    $125 8-40 holes
    $125 time and tig bolt handle
    $150 install bolt knob
    $75 pin recoil lug
    $100 side bolt release

    $925 is the cost of unfucking a Remington action plus the cost of the action itself, a recoil lug, and base which will run you another $600-$750. You still won’t have the level of quality of a custom action and you still won’t be able to run prefits. It’s pretty dumb but you know what they say about fools and their money.
     
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    redneckbmxer24 said:
    $350 true action
    $125 8-40 holes
    $125 time and tig bolt handle
    $150 install bolt knob
    $75 pin recoil lug
    $100 side bolt release

    $925 is the cost of unfucking a Remington action plus the cost of the action itself, a recoil lug, and base which will run you another $600-$750. You still won’t have the level of quality of a custom action and you still won’t be able to run prefits. It’s pretty dumb but you know what they say about fools and their money.
    Click to expand...
    Don't forget that you may need the firing pin turned and bushed. Remington always used a large firing pin, even on small primer applications. It works until you get to higher pressures.
     
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    Mostly all the Remington needs though is the bolt timed. That can be done from 40 dollars on up. I guess people shoot factory rifles with no primary extraction so "need" isn't the word either.

    I have not bought a Remington action in while. Last one was 300 dollars.

    They make barrel nut prefits for pretty much every action out there.
     
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    redneckbmxer24 said:
    $350 true action
    $125 8-40 holes
    $125 time and tig bolt handle
    $150 install bolt knob
    $75 pin recoil lug
    $100 side bolt release

    $925 is the cost of unfucking a Remington action plus the cost of the action itself, a recoil lug, and base which will run you another $600-$750. You still won’t have the level of quality of a custom action and you still won’t be able to run prefits. It’s pretty dumb but you know what they say about fools and their money.
    Click to expand...
    Except that half the stuff on that list is either cosmetic or otherwise totally unrelated to accuracy.

    I’m no fan of fancy-pantsing a R700 but let’s be honest. A bolt handle and side bolt release are just things to spend money on if you have extra. Likewise 8-40 holes….and timing the bolt won’t make it shoot any differently at all.
     
    Truing one is gunsmith gravy. It’s not needed. Pre 2020 tyranny and theft, stainless Remington 700 actions were $400. A rifle can be built around that as is. I have no idea what a bare Rem action costs post fuckery. Of course a Tikka donor rifle at the time was $650 and would be my choice.

    Another reason and about the only reason to build off a Remington 700 today is if a man owns a donor already. Skip the truing and have zero dollars tied up in an action for the build.
     
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    I’d buy a Remington. Saw an old 700 Varmint a while back for $700 that I REALLY liked (didn’t buy it though).

    BUT, it wasn’t going to be a match rifle, and out side of cleaning it up, putting a scope on it, I wasn’t going to spend any money on it.

    That said; I’ve shot old 700 Varmints before. It likely didn’t NEED any money spent on it.

    Would I buy one for an action to build on instead of an Origin? No. The math just doesn’t work out.

    Though I have to say (purely subjective here), that I’ve never, ever, seen a new, custom action that LOOKED any cooler than a 700 with a Badger knob. Ever.

    I actually like khaki cargo shorts (hard no on Velcro sneakers), but I’m 50 and married, so I don’t have to fret whether my tactical pants are gonna get me laid quite as much.
     
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    Idk call me old fashioned I built my last rifle off a 700 and could I have gone with a custom? Sure.

    But for a poors budget I snagged a trued action from the Px, had my smith throw a barrel on, and I called it a day
     
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    I still have my 700 from 1993 that has been trued and had a bolt knob and base screws opened up but would I do it today? No way! You can get a $900 Bighorn Origin for $900 and get more out of it for the money that any factory action including the 700.
     
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    Hell, I bought an R700 AAC-SD back in 2010 maybe. I had it rebarreled with a Krieger and added a thicker recoil lug. No truing, timing, pinning, blueprinting, bushing or anything else. I had a local gunsmith do the barrel and it’s the most generous, sloppiest chamber of anything I own. Likewise, he effed up the muzzle threads badly enough he added a set screw to the brake because he didn’t think it would stay on otherwise. After all that, it shoots 185 juggernauts into 1/2“ groups as a rule and has podiumed at club “tactical” matches.
     
    You made the Big Green God Angry
    (don't forget to subtract 308 and yes, that's 5 shots)


    RFP2.png

    rfp.png


    Stock Rem 700 Turn of the century

    But those times are gone. Bighorn/CDG/Tikka.

    MY OG Winmag from the 90s might get some love eventually with a new barrel, right now its my hunter.
    Yes I just wanted an excuse to post this group.
     
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    Well so far, getting less than halfway through the tread, I Make Expectations to the following remarks

    Wears Khaki cargo shorts to the range. (And you prefer what?)
    Vietnam Vet (shooting accurately out to 6-700 yards or more before your grandfather was born)

    Why buy a R700 action? Because its there, and everyone needs a good challenge every know and then.

    heck, they used to make good firearms, but back then, almost everyone made good (enough) rifles and shotguns.

    (Remember,, the 6.5x300 Weatherby Wright Magnum was built so shooters would have “enough” rifle to get to a 1000 yards.)
     
    Dead Eye Dick said:
    Well so far, getting less than halfway through the tread, I Make Expectations to the following remarks

    Wears Khaki cargo shorts to the range. (And you prefer what?)
    Vietnam Vet (shooting accurately out to 6-700 yards or more before your grandfather was born)
    Click to expand...

    Well, since you are making expectations (?):

    1: Anything other than khaki cargo shorts, ya Fudd.

    2: One of my grandfathers spent WW2 on a cutter in the North Atlantic and the other fought in Korea

    But guys my dad’s age, Vietnam era dudes, are always the quickest to suggest that every rifleman needs a Remington 700 in .308. Which is just terrible advice for a new shooter in 2024.
     
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    OREGUN said:
    Well, since you are making expectations (?):

    1: Anything other than khaki cargo shorts, ya Fudd.

    2: One of my grandfathers spent WW2 on a cutter in the North Atlantic and the other fought in Korea

    But guys my dad’s age, Vietnam era dudes, are always the quickest to suggest that every rifleman needs a Remington 700 in .308. Which is just terrible advice for a new shooter in 2024.
    Click to expand...
    I’ll have you know that I never have, never will and have basically always disliked and come to hate the 3oh8! Problem is not that terribly impressed when I qualified with the M-14 in Infantry AIT. (They drug me out of practice with the mortar to qualify on the M14.) Used to shooting .30-30’s and .30-06’s at home it just seemed to be a poor middle child. Next, in 2003 I purchased a good looking 700 VTR in .3oh8. Too slow a twist to shoot the 200 trainers that my old .30-06 handled with ease, would shoot a one hole group at 100 yards, that would be until you shot the second shot, would not feed rounds from the magazine, and had an action that felt like two pieces of 40 grit sandpaper rubbing together.). Swore, it was the last ‘new’ Remington anything I was ever going to own. Replaced it with a Weatherby Vanguard in .25-06 which has been a GODsend, best hunting rifle I have ever owned, including a custom or two.

    So there, i would never ever recommend a .308 anything (except maybe a Browning BLR or possibly a Remington 600, but in those I would prefer a .358 Win in the BLR or a .35 Remington or .350 Rem Mag in the 600).

    But I’m not giving up my cargo shorts….Standard fare in the Louisiana and Florida summers is cargo shorts and a Tshirt..
     
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    I made this mistake. Bought a trued stainless action from Northland shooters supply and I have had nothing but issues with it. Pre-extraction being the main one. It does however shoot well. I knew nothing about these issues at the time and thought if NSS was selling a trued version it would be gtg. Now I find out “trueing” exacerbates the pre-extraction issue. Live and learn.

    So then I found myself in a “fallacy of sunk cost” combined with knowing I could never sell it in good conscience the way it was.

    It is now at the LRI “gun spa” to have the timing fixed. While I was at it, I decided to pin the lug and have the side bolt release installed so I can run a TT Diamond. So far the awesome experience with LRI has made these upgrade fun at least. They really are professional, and have their act together. I even get photos as the work is done….

    No more 700 actions for me though. This one will likely be relegated to a .223 trainer/coyote rifle in the future while my LR Rig gets a custom action at the next barrel change.

    Image 137.jpeg
     
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    DocRDS said:
    You made the Big Green God Angry
    (don't forget to subtract 308 and yes, that's 5 shots)


    View attachment 8334865
    View attachment 8334862

    Stock Rem 700 Turn of the century

    But those times are gone. Bighorn/CDG/Tikka.

    MY OG Winmag from the 90s might get some love eventually with a new barrel, right now its my hunter.
    Yes I just wanted an excuse to post this group.
    Click to expand...
    Hey I got one like that. Bone stock 700LTR in 308. E prefix on the action, where ever that puts it in time.

    Low right shot was first round after putting the action back in the stock and mounting the scope. 4 shots in the center. Best group I've ever shot in my life. (.308 already subtracted)
    20240128_165934.jpg

    Then a year later, lightning struck again. Five shots in this one.
    20240128_170014.jpg

    100 yards, 168fgmm.
     
    Here’s a 5 shot group from a savage 10 FCP carbine with a factory 20” barrel. Since we’re talking quality 😁👍 5 shot - 100 yards
    7AC12A3F-1D7C-4388-91AC-9E83061ADFAD.jpeg
     
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    I was going to true up and rebarrel a 2012 era R700xcr for my son. He is getting a 6.5cm. When I started adding it up over the next 8-10 years, it became clear that financially it made total sense to just spend an extra 700 now to buy him a 737r where he could change barrels, not have to deal with the ugly finish. Not sure yet what I will do with the 700, probably just sell it. Reusing it just to save a few buck up front was just not worth it to me.
     
    You do you.

    I had an old 700 of mine trued up last year, along with getting it drilled and tapped 8-40, and had a new barrel chambered for it at the same time (non-threaded muzzle). I was out less than a grand including Cerakote, and the 'little 700 that could' is a laser.

    Probably wouldn't start looking for a 700 donor action to buy again just to build off of, but a good gunsmith can make one feel like you're working a bank vault.
     
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    Potsy said:
    I’d buy a Remington. Saw an old 700 Varmint a while back for $700 that I REALLY liked (didn’t buy it though).

    BUT, it wasn’t going to be a match rifle, and out side of cleaning it up, putting a scope on it, I wasn’t going to spend any money on it.

    That said; I’ve shot old 700 Varmints before. It likely didn’t NEED any money spent on it.

    Would I buy one for an action to build on instead of an Origin? No. The math just doesn’t work out.

    Though I have to say (purely subjective here), that I’ve never, ever, seen a new, custom action that LOOKED any cooler than a 700 with a Badger knob. Ever.

    I actually like khaki cargo shorts (hard no on Velcro sneakers), but I’m 50 and married, so I don’t have to fret whether my tactical pants are gonna get me laid quite as much.
    Click to expand...

    What's the opinion on olive green shorts? Columbia brand to be exact.

    Is it okay to wear them with Topsiders, or do I have to buy some ankle high tactical looking Solomons?


    Oh, and the shirt. There's always the question of the shirt.
     
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    Mike Casselton said:
    What's the opinion on olive green shorts? Columbia brand to be exact.

    Is it okay to wear them with Topsiders, or do I have to buy some ankle high tactical looking Solomons?


    Oh, and the shirt. There's always the question of the shirt.
    Click to expand...
    Not to hijack the thread, buuut…….

    I’d say the Columbia’s would be fine. I’ve got a couple pair of the heavy Old Navy’s myself.

    Shirt can be a T-shirt, Long sleeve T-shirt (for cool mornings), or a golf shirt (that’s the beauty of khaki cargo shorts!) I do iron my cargo shorts for a more formal look (wife makes fun, but I HATE wearing wrinkled anything). A camo shirt and a Boonie hat for a trendy, tacticool look.

    I just wear mine with the same Merrill Tennis Shoes that every man in the Southeast owns at least two pairs of.
     
    Potsy said:
    Not to hijack the thread, buuut…….

    I’d say the Columbia’s would be fine. I’ve got a couple pair of the heavy Old Navy’s myself.

    Shirt can be a T-shirt, Long sleeve T-shirt (for cool mornings), or a golf shirt (that’s the beauty of khaki cargo shorts!) I do iron my cargo shorts for a more formal look (wife makes fun, but I HATE wearing wrinkled anything). A camo shirt and a Boonie hat for a trendy, tacticool look.

    I just wear mine with the same Merrill Tennis Shoes that every man in the Southeast owns at least two pairs of.
    Click to expand...
    1706500499162.gif
     
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    I have a safe full of customs built off 700 actions...And a couple untouched factory ones still siting in there. Granted, they were all built 10+ years ago, when you could buy a used 700 ADL out of the bargain bin at the local gunstore for $250 all day, everyday. My smith charges me extremely good prices, because I've known him so long, and because he makes most of his money off of yuppies that don't know shit about shit. And I would go through all the hard work of tracking down and ordering all my parts beforehand, and then bringing everything to him all at once. And all he had to do was do the machining work and stick it together, and his turnaround time for me was like a week, maybe 2 if he was super busy. I could build a complete custom 700 (including cheap used action) for $1,250 if I really took my time hunting down bargains and basically brand new "used" takeoff stocks and bottom metals. That's a whole custom rifle for less than a Defiance or BAT action... That's why I have so many of them.

    But things have shifted in the last few years, and with all the threats of gun control and markets getting panic-bought, and fake supply & demand shortages by the manufacturers in order to be able to raise their prices to make more money (which his dirty as hell), and with Bidenomics economy jacking prices of everything through the damn roof, it's now cheaper to build a custom rifle off of a Solus or CDG than to try to build a really nice budget custom on a 700 or Pre-64 Mod 70. These days, I'll build off a custom before ever considering buying another 700 factory rifle. I still have a few 700's that when they need rebarreling, they'll get the works treatment, but if I'm starting from scratch on a build, I'm going with a custom action and prefit barrels that I can assemble myself at home with minimal tools, a torque wrench, and a set of Go/NoGo gauges.
     
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    One “perceived issue” I have wondered about is the larger scope base screws.

    Is this an issue?

    Do folks break these screws often?

    Also is the rifle falls or takes a bad hit and a screw(s) does break, does this damage the scope less or not at all….?
     
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    Holliday said:
    One “perceived issue” I have wondered about is the larger scope base screws.

    Is this an issue?

    Do folks break these screws often?

    Also is the rifle falls or takes a bad hit and a screw(s) does break, does this damage the scope less or not at all….?
    Click to expand...

    No they don't break often. The majority of the cases where they are opened is to fix them being off a little from Remington and making them true so you don't need a lot of windage one way or the other.
     
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    Rob01 said:
    No they don't break often. The majority of the cases where they are opened is to fix them being off a little from Remington and making them true so you don't need a lot of windage one way or the other.
    Click to expand...

    Oh well heck that makes sense. Guess I will get that on the list if the action ever goes to LRI again.
     
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    Nostalgia is the reason for many. No doubt if starting from scratch just buy custom action but many guys have the 700 so they get a barrel for it and then save for a stock. Not perfect but works great.

    Some of the most accurate rifles I have ever shot were built on Remington Actions. I was talking with another competitor at the 2009 F Class World Championships and he and I agreed all we really gained changing to larger custom actions was weight.

    On a sniper system the newer custom actions are designed to be smoother and function under worse conditions than a factory action so it’s the way to go if starting from scratch

    Some smiths specialize in making Remington actions into truly field worthy works of art and they give up nothing to the custom actions except they take many more hours to get there so cost is way up
     
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    The blueprinted Remington 700 is, every gunsmith an achievement or performance that shows great skill and attracts admiration.
    They all must done at least one, so they get the status being the gunsmith.
    If you have done it of the Savage 110, it is like you have done nothing, ist must be the Remington 700 SA.
    I dont even know, can you make the Savage 110 any better, no matter you do.
     
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    FuhQ said:
    FTFY… 😂👌🏼
    Click to expand...
    Well my point is tolerance of the parts. A action built from the ground up to have tolerances where it needs to be and not where it doesn’t. Slick and smooth bolts are really nice to me and a wiggly jiggly Remington seems like it would be prone to issues. But I guess if it is loose enough dirt can get out as well as it can go in.
     
    That must have been made by someone who thinks AI is the be all end all. LOL Pretty factual in everything except the AI part though.
     
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