What’s your favourite projectile in this weight range?
Have you found any to be easier to tune/more accurate than the others?
The 88gr ELDMs are certainly the cheapest with a pretty good BC.
- Thread starter Dai Bando
- Start date
Have you found any to be easier to tune/more accurate than the others?
The 88gr ELDMs are certainly the cheapest with a pretty good BC.
Nice ya I might go with a 7.5 then cause thats the same range I want to use. I did watch some of Greg with primal rights videos and he claims you should always go with the fastest possible, he showed a video I think it was .20 cal but he was around like 437k rpm so idk
I've found in my 223ai that the 85.5 is my favorite I've used 8208, varg, n150, n540 and they all just seem to shoot and it isn't to jump sensitive
What elevation are you at? Berger’s calculator doesn’t quite love a 7.5 twist at low altitudes, but does say you can shoot it
Im at 450'
My accuracy has been lights out to 900yd across multiple barrels in both 22BR and 22GT. Switched both of them to 7.5 bartleins and the erratic flyers, difficult load development all went away and everything has been stupid consistent across the same powders and bullets.
Ya I'm at like 400. I think I'm gonna go with a 7 twist but I'm curious has anyone ever heard of or used Jed Knowlton for a gunsmith out of Texas with the company Sage Precision Rifles?
Hey so ya I'm really torn between 7 and 7.5 twist. I found the builder I'm gonna go with Taylor from SCR chamber it in 22BRA with a BAT hammerhead action and 26 inch MTU Brux barrel. What dies do you recommend? I'm think the SAC for both sizing and seating. Taylor says 7.5 should be plenty fast enough but man that Berger stability Calc worries me cause with 85.5 at 3k fps it says 1.41.
How much effect does a 3% drop in BC have for you at your max target distance?
Well I can shoot out to 812 yards so whatever that is
So it sounds like you don’t understand what a 1.41 SG means. But here, here is the difference it makes, assuming 2900 FPS MV and various other things:
Attachments
Yes you're right I'm pretty new to this still in terms of bc and stability, I guess I was just reading bergers chart like if you're under 1.5 your bullet might not be stable. Thanks for the help
Sure, sorry to be a jerk. If you go back to Berger’s calculator, it’ll tell you how much BC you lose with what they call a “marginally stable” bullet. Their calculator will tell you it’ll shoot, it’s just not an optimized BC, and it’ll tell you how much less BC you get.
You can plug the two different sets of info (7 twist and 0.268 BC vs. 7.5 twist and whatever reduced BC you get per Berger) into a ballistic solver and compare. Short version is: you’ll have to dial slightly more dope and very slightly more wind, and only at the farthest targets.
It’s a very minimal BC impact, consistency is usually more important. That said, I’ve been running a 7 twist and gotten good results, I think you’ll be happy with either. Burn up the first barrel improving the meat sack, then you can decide what to do on the second one.
Anybody know of a place to get a barrel? Everything seems to be about 10-12 month lead times.. I'm looking for a 26" MTU 7 OR 7.5 twist. I did find a 6.8 twist bartlein but idk if that's too fast for what I'm looking for. Anyone ever tried the 6.8 twist from bartlein it's also 28 inch
Looks like Altus sold out of their Bartlein MTUs, but they do have other contours. Also, there’s this site that has Brux MTU blanks, and Eric Cortina says Brux is good to go; I trust his judgment.
Sweet ya I'm actually running a brux in my 223ai and it does hammer. What do you think about the 6.8 twist bartlein to fast?
With a velocity of 3000 that 6.8 twist is 318,000rpm.. thats too fast for me.. from all of my experience and data, sweet spot.has been right around that 290,000rpm range. It's proven way more consistent and less erratic and stupid consistently accurate...
7 twist is 309,000rpm
7.5 288,000 rpm
I shoot my 90smk @ 3030 out of a 28" which is 291,000rpm
Berger has a twist rate calculator for a reason and specifically states you risk possible stability and bullet failure issues when going over that magic 300,000rpm mark..
Just another data point to factor in. That stability calculator isn't the live all be all only data point for me. Experience and all data points matter for me.
From all my testing, right around that 290,000 mark is super consistent at all distances. The drop and wind is whatever it is from there.
7 twist is 309,000rpm
7.5 288,000 rpm
I shoot my 90smk @ 3030 out of a 28" which is 291,000rpm
Berger has a twist rate calculator for a reason and specifically states you risk possible stability and bullet failure issues when going over that magic 300,000rpm mark..
Just another data point to factor in. That stability calculator isn't the live all be all only data point for me. Experience and all data points matter for me.
From all my testing, right around that 290,000 mark is super consistent at all distances. The drop and wind is whatever it is from there.
Last edited:
Awesome thanks for the input so how do you figure out the rpm? Is there a scale or formula for it? The other thing I'm thinking about to is I don't necessarily want to constantly push high velocities I want to try and find probably a node around 2900 for the 85.5. I mean I might just do the 6.8 if I can get it spun up now and going and then order a 7.5 so hopefully it will be ready in a year lol
MV x 720 / Twist Rate = Bullet RPM
Example
3030rpm x 720 = 2,181,600 / 7.5 Twist = 290,880 rpm
Example
3030rpm x 720 = 2,181,600 / 7.5 Twist = 290,880 rpm
1 7 twist Bartlein straight in stock
I've never ordered from these guys but Benchmark 7 twist mtu in stock
I've never ordered from these guys but Benchmark 7 twist mtu in stock
Benchmark 224 SS 7tw 5gr MTU-BM-224-219-7-5gr-MTU-27
buddysarmory.com
I actually have a Hawk Hill 29" 7.5 twist blank on the shelf but I'm looking for a 7.5twist 1.2" straight
Ya I've seen all those also thanks for looking for me. I talked to John whidden he said he runs 6.25 twist in his 223 and he pushes 90 vld at 2880.
Ya after now understanding the rpm and what not I think I will go for a 7.5 twist I found a brux from GTaccuracy.. anyone heard of them? I emailed he responded and seems legit and uses authorize.net
I have 2x 22br barrels, both 7tw but 219 bore. The Hawkhill has 300 rounds on it, the Mullerworks closer to 800. Running 88s and 90s just under 3k fps w/ varget and they've both been excellent.
80 SMK, 80 VLD and 88 ELD specifically shot amazing in my Mullerworks 0.219 7 Twist. I could not get consistent accuracy out of the 90 SMK's with that MW.. And thats the bullet I wanted to shoot coming from 220TB shooting the 90 SMK @ 3000 into stupid small groups out to 1000yd for years. Id find a good load at 100, I would then get unexplained, random flyers at distance. Went through many different powders, charges, seating depth tests. I ran into this exact same problem with 22GT.
I ordered 2 Bartlein 7.5twist and had each chambered in 22BR and 22GT. Right from the start, stupid consistent accuracy. No fussing with powders, seating depths, nothing. I had all the exact same data from the MW 7 twist and you would think I was shooting 2 different calibers just going from 7 to 7.5 twist.
I want to make sure we are talking the same results/numbers here. I want to be clear here. I am not saying the MW 7 twist 22BR shot 2 MOA groups or anything unacceptable. It just wasnt shooting consistent 0.1's, 0.2's @ 100yd and 0.250moa or less at distance like my previous 220TB was. And that was the gun I was replacing when I jumped into 22BR so I wanted equal results..
I was still getting 0.5-0.75moa accuracy from the MW 7 twist.. But, I would get 3-4 shots in one hole then a flyer that would open the groups up to 0.5-0.75 consistently and with no explanation.. Thats what drove me to run my RPM numbers and go up to a 7.5 twist..
Here my 22BR 90smk results after switching to 7.5 twist. Initial testing with same everything as the MW 7 twist. I couldnt shoot a group over 3/8" and my final load shoots in the 0.1's.... You can see I have a low node at 28.7gr which is my go to nice easy load which sped up on this new barrel to just over 3000.... I have a high node there at 30.2gr which sped up to right at 3100 but thats too fast for me. My goal when I went to 22BR was 90smk right at 3000fps..
Bartlein 7.5 90smk OCW
Bartlein 7.5 90smk Seating Depth Test
That is awesome stuff I mean I think you are dead on! After looking back and checking the MV of my best loads out of my 223AI brux it's right around 290k rpm. It makes total sense and I'm exclusively looking for a 7.5 twist barrel. I wonder if this could be why the 224valk failed like it did because they were way over rpm80 SMK, 80 VLD and 88 ELD specifically shot amazing in my Mullerworks 0.219 7 Twist. I could not get consistent accuracy out of the 90 SMK's with that MW.. And thats the bullet I wanted to shoot coming from 220TB shooting the 90 SMK @ 3000 into stupid small groups out to 1000yd for years. Id find a good load at 100, I would then get unexplained, random flyers at distance. Went through many different powders, charges, seating depth tests. I ran into this exact same problem with 22GT.
I ordered 2 Bartlein 7.5twist and had each chambered in 22BR and 22GT. Right from the start, stupid consistent accuracy. No fussing with powders, seating depths, nothing. I had all the exact same data from the MW 7 twist and you would think I was shooting 2 different calibers just going from 7 to 7.5 twist.
I want to make sure we are talking the same results/numbers here. I want to be clear here. I am not saying the MW 7 twist 22BR shot 2 MOA groups or anything unacceptable. It just wasnt shooting consistent 0.1's, 0.2's @ 100yd and 0.250moa or less at distance like my previous 220TB was. And that was the gun I was replacing when I jumped into 22BR so I wanted equal results..
I was still getting 0.5-0.75moa accuracy from the MW 7 twist.. But, I would get 3-4 shots in one hole then a flyer that would open the groups up to 0.5-0.75 consistently and with no explanation.. Thats what drove me to run my RPM numbers and go up to a 7.5 twist..
Here my 22BR 90smk results after switching to 7.5 twist. Initial testing with same everything as the MW 7 twist. I couldnt shoot a group over 3/8" and my final load shoots in the 0.1's.... You can see I have a low node at 28.7gr which is my go to nice easy load which sped up on this new barrel to just over 3000.... I have a high node there at 30.2gr which sped up to right at 3100 but thats too fast for me. My goal when I went to 22BR was 90smk right at 3000fps..
Bartlein 7.5 90smk OCW
Bartlein 7.5 90smk Seating Depth Test
224V failed because they claimed it could do what it never did once it got into our hands... I tested 224V extensively in an AR and I designed a custom reamer for bolt guns to get that bullet way up out the case to maximize capacity to fit more powder in the case and shot on my TL3..
It couldn't handle the speeds they claimed.. The brass was just toast if you tried to push 85/90's past 2850. Can you do it, sure I did it but you didnt get more than 1-3 firings on the brass above that speed. 88 ELD in a 22" Rainier Ultramatch 1:7 AR I would shoot in the 2550-2640 range. Nowhere near the speeds they claimed before initial release...
In a bolt gun, why is the question. So many better cartridges with AWESOME brass out there to shoot 224 90s in a bolt gun with awesome accuracy and long brass life.... 22BR... Hahah
Last edited:
Haha! The real question I have is who has a 7.5 twist mtu blank they could sell me. Lol
Is that a legit site? I'm pretty sure GTaccuracy is not (that's the one that had the brux 7.5) I asked for a picture of the brux stamped shank and a note and no reply.
Awesome do you have a link to that? I just looked and it says the mtu is out of stock. It does say they have the Varmint contour
I actually got one and my smith got one so I should be good for awhile lol
What would you guys say is the optimal length for 22bra shooting the heavies? I'm thinking 28
I am running 30 inches. Some for weight but it is to get every last FPS of it I can
David
David
Bugholes got 500-600 barrels in the past 2 days. Site updated this morning if anyone is looking for barrels.. I got a few more
I like 28" competition contour, or a 26" 1.250 straight. I have a 28" no taper and it's a bit much.
Ya they are the bartlein mtu I'm gonna have him spin both of em up at 28". What about sizing dies for BRA? I have alot of the SAC bushings so I'm thinking about just getting the SAC sizing and seating dies
Have had good luck with wilson and harrels. No experience with SAC dies other than their universal seating dies, they're pretty bomb.
I'm a huge LE Wilson fan. I also have SAC dies but for the money, the quality and smoothness of sizing and seating is top of the line. LE Wilson FL bushing dies size like better and man I love their Micrometer inline seaters. I 100% switched all calibers to them.
L.E. Wilson Bushing Type Full Length Sizer Die 22 BR (Bench Rest)
The L.E. Wilson Bushing Type Full Length Sizing Die. This die will allow you to size the case neck to your desired neck tension along with sizing down...
www.midwayusa.com 
L.E. Wilson SS Chamber Type Micrometer Seater Die 22 BR (Bench Rest)
The L.E. Wilson Stainless Steel Chamber Type Micrometer Seater Die features a micrometer seater. Precision adjustment in .001" increments of...
www.midwayusa.com What's everyone's recommendation for gunsmiths in the PNW? and what cost do you usually see to spin up a barrel in 22BRA?
About Us | SPR Industries LLC | Gunsmith | Seattle, WA
www.sprindustriesllc.com 
Custom Gun Barrels | Buffalo Creek Precision | United States
Custom gunsmithed gun barrels by Buffalo Creek Precision. Specializing in accurizing competition and hunting riffles. Owner John mills can machine a barrel for any riffle. Buffalo Creek Precision Custom Gun Barrels
www.buffalocreekprecision.com Benchmark Barrels might also chamber someone else's barrel, but not sure.
I'd expect to pay from $450-550 for a chamber and muzzle thread job on a blank; some outfits might also charge you to remove/install a barrel, although the two smiths I linked would almost certainly install for free because they'll be verifying headspace as a final check (if you provide them your action).
Also, one thing to think about in the future is having any blanks shipped straight to your smith, saves that middle-man shipping cost.
Ya I think a standard rate is around 450ish. So they guy doing my work I didn't realize until today but so I've paid for the bat action the barrel and trigger and I thought the price he gave me included everything but I found out today the labor is gonna be 975.......
Labor for what exactly?
Well so I'm getting a new bat machine hammerhead action, bartlein 29 inch mtu to be finished at 28 inch chambered in 22bra and muzzle threaded at 3/4x24
Well so I'm getting a new bat machine hammerhead action, bartlein 29 inch mtu to be finished at 28 inch chambered in 22bra and muzzle threaded at 3/4
I could run it in GRT
Similar threads
Reloading Equipment 6mm BR ALPHA BRASS
