Those turrets look like they were designed in the 80's at the same time the Porsche 944 came out...
Rifle Scopes New Schmidt & Bender PM2 6-36x56
- Thread starter Just Macca
- Start date
Not another 6-36, but size compared to one.
Schmidt figured out a good model, sell a 10 year old plus design for 2x what it originally sold for... if people will pay the price then why not. The 3-27 and 5-45 were designed for niche applications and therefore demand a much higher cost of entry. What I don't understand is the pricing model between new (but 15 year old design) 5-25 PMII's compared to the new 6-36??? Makes me think Schmidt USA told Schmidt Germany if they plan to sell any 6-36 models they better price it accordingly and for some reason Schmidt Germany agreed (maybe because of the neutered FOV). Regardless, the new pricing on the ultra shorts (also 10+ year old designs) seems way over the top, for most manufacturers after a product begins to age they've recouped their R&D costs and start lowering the price, apparently Schmidt thinks doing the opposite is a good idea.
Looks like the horseradish mustard I like. LOL
Coming off of a Tangent, I must say that initially today I am really impressed with my new 6-36.
Just got my 6-36 in from Eurooptic and so far so good. Haven’t gotten an opportunity to really look at it though. However, I must say that the packaging finally feels like a tier 1 scope. This is my 3rd S&B scope so I will be interested to see how it compares overall.
I think once you have had time to compare.....I am confident you will give the nod to the S&B.
I still have a TT 5-25 and from my comparisons...i rate the S&B just a little better than the TT.....so quite a compliment to the S&B..
Goddamnit guys, please lay off a little bit. I can’t afford all of these upgrades.
@Glassaholic wanna finally test drive and review the 6-36x? The host rifle for this new one is out of town until probably mid-March.
How much does S&B charge to swap reticles? Does it have to go to Germany?
Not sure about Germany. Probably tho. But last I checked it was $800-$1,000 for a swap from them. More for like a T3 or something. Wasn’t worth it. Just sell the scope take the loss and get a new one.
I recently asked S&B how much a reticle swap on a 3-27 with the P4FL to a LRR-MIL would be.
They responded that the whole maintube would have to be changed, probably because of the diffractive illumination of the LRR.
MSR2 I got quoted about 1200Euro.
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I also asked them and they said it's €800-900. The reason being that everything is glued together and that the change is alot of work, which sounds reasonable.
Good sir, the nod has already been given. I much prefer this over the TT, by a longshot. No exaggeration. That happened yesterday rather quickly. There was no debating or contemplating. Easy choice.
In the last two years, during my scope quest, I’ve purchased and ran in this order: NF 4-32, Steiner 4-28, ATACR 7-35, ZCO 5-27, two different (reticles) TT 5-25, and now this S&B 6-36.
I can finally and truly say “this is the one” for me. I am now at peace.
I went p4fl to lrr-mil in my 3-27 and i think it was $750-800. I may have the receipt in the box still. That was late 2022 early 23.
I've visited the factory recently, and seeing how much work that is involved (plus sometimes a hefty fee to the reticle designer) I can't complain about their pricing. I've sent 3 S&Bs for reticle change, and it's (or was) a little less within EU.
Work that wouldn’t be needed if they offered even one reticle that doesn’t suck.
I was a big fan of the MSR 15 years ago. I’d like to think everyone’s past that now. I’d hate to go back to it.
I was a big fan of the MSR 15 years ago. I’d like to think everyone’s past that now. I’d hate to go back to it.
I won a S&B 5-25x with some very strange reticle in it. I swapped. Pretty good total purchase at around 500 EUR for a scope
I also went from P4F (I think) to MSR2 once it was offered for the S&B 5-20x Ultra Short.
Few manufacturers have that many reticles and turrets on offer.
Challenge accepted. Scope heading to Glassaholic for review
@Glassaholic Lucky guy! Let’s us know if it’s that good Bill. And please let me know about the reticle. On paper it seems really busy to me but maybe in actual use it’s not.
What about it is better or what are you noticing?Good sir, the nod has already been given. I much prefer this over the TT, by a longshot. No exaggeration. That happened yesterday rather quickly. There was no debating or contemplating. Easy choice.
In the last two years, during my scope quest, I’ve purchased and ran in this order: NF 4-32, Steiner 4-28, ATACR 7-35, ZCO 5-27, two different (reticles) TT 5-25, and now this S&B 6-36.
I can finally and truly say “this is the one” for me. I am now at peace.
Sure will noob. I've actually had several Schmidts with the GR2ID reticle and it's not as busy as it seems on paper but I do not find it as distracting as the MPCT3 with it's circles, for some reason my eyes don't like little circles unless it's in the center (didn't like the H2CMR for the same reason). That said, the GR2ID may be slightly different (in thickness) compared to the other scopes I've seen it in (5-45 and 3-27) so I'll let you know if it seems better or worse.
As a P5FL owner am also looking forward to this review!
I got mine yesterday. It will be a month before I can mount and shoot it due to work. On 6x, the reticle is still very usable. This scope can truly be used 6-36, just by my judgment from casually looking out the window with it. I bought the P5 reticle to keep it simple since all of the ranges I have access to are < 600 yards.
What mounts are you guys using these days? I have a Tikka T3X CTR in a KRG Whiskey chassis. The NV bridge sits higher than the receiver. I figured a 1.5” high mount. Badger Ordnance Condition One? I just want another Macho Man sticker, that’s all lol. I have a 1.18” high Spuhr, but the Condition One mount I bought for my SPR is slimmer and can still run offset red dots.
What mounts are you guys using these days? I have a Tikka T3X CTR in a KRG Whiskey chassis. The NV bridge sits higher than the receiver. I figured a 1.5” high mount. Badger Ordnance Condition One? I just want another Macho Man sticker, that’s all lol. I have a 1.18” high Spuhr, but the Condition One mount I bought for my SPR is slimmer and can still run offset red dots.
Literally everything, except the set screws in the turret vs the Tangents tooless setup. I like this Schmidt better in every way, other than setting the zero, which if that’s the price I have to pay, so be it, 100% worth it.
Glass wise what are you seeing that’s better?
an overall much better image quality. Much improved detail/resolution. My two Tangents never wowed me, unlike my former ZCO and especially now this Schmidt.
My observations on TT vs the S&B 6-36.
The S&B on direct comparisons to the TT has slightly better sharpness and detail/resolution.
Contrast on the S&B is noticeably better...more depth to the image.
Edge to edge sharpness on the S&B is the best I have seen....again better than the TT.
S&B had slightly warmer colour than the TT....TT appears on the cold/blue side
FOV.....no comparison....S&B trounces the TT.
Tool less Turrets on the TT are still hard to beat.
39.5mils travel on the S&B (multi turn )
The S&B on direct comparisons to the TT has slightly better sharpness and detail/resolution.
Contrast on the S&B is noticeably better...more depth to the image.
Edge to edge sharpness on the S&B is the best I have seen....again better than the TT.
S&B had slightly warmer colour than the TT....TT appears on the cold/blue side
FOV.....no comparison....S&B trounces the TT.
Tool less Turrets on the TT are still hard to beat.
39.5mils travel on the S&B (multi turn )
So now I have to sell my TT too?
Good God, boys, take it easy!
Honestly, I can’t imagine selling the TT
Good God, boys, take it easy!
Honestly, I can’t imagine selling the TT
Still got mine.....it's my " Backup " optic
The picture-IQ sounds very good and most if not all bases are covered. Any thoughts about eye fatique and long-duration comfort so far? cheers.
Honestly . Eye relief is excellent and it's a pleasure to spend long durations looking through
The Gri2d reticle is not for me as it tends to fatigue my eyes.....like looking through a fly wire door.
My mates are both Gri2d reticles and he loves it.
Me I like the simple P5fl....
We are lucky having the un restricted FOV....so this makes it even more a pleasure to look through.
.
The Gri2d reticle is not for me as it tends to fatigue my eyes.....like looking through a fly wire door.
My mates are both Gri2d reticles and he loves it.
Me I like the simple P5fl....
We are lucky having the un restricted FOV....so this makes it even more a pleasure to look through.
.
^nobody likes a (FOV) braggart
"Mines bigger than yours!"
LOL
"Mines bigger than yours!"
LOL
I also think that the S&B is the best scope Ive ever looked through. Now am not Glassaholic or koshkin and I don't do any in depth testing nor do I have specialized tools so my opinion is worth exactly 2 shits but from a person that has used most of the top tier optics (NF, TT, ZCO, Razor3) that's what my eyes tell me. I have shot with the S&B in various conditions, rainy, foggy, overcast, and bright and sunny and the scope performs great and I don't see any type of change in the optical quality or difficulty identifying or shooting targets out to 1,300 yards up in the mountains around foliage. Next summer when it gets to 110-115F out at our range ill see how it really manages mirage.
My issue with the S&B right now is learning to love the P5FL. What led me to the S&B was my search for a new non tree simple reticle and the P5FL achieves that but now that I have been shooting with it for a few months I do wish it just had a bit more information. I have just become used to having .2 marks I do actually like the .5 and .9 open space from the P5FL but I do find it a bit thick.
My issue with the S&B right now is learning to love the P5FL. What led me to the S&B was my search for a new non tree simple reticle and the P5FL achieves that but now that I have been shooting with it for a few months I do wish it just had a bit more information. I have just become used to having .2 marks I do actually like the .5 and .9 open space from the P5FL but I do find it a bit thick.
For the hardcore, there's some S&B 6-36x content here. Also some 3-20x Ultra Short (Canada C20 contract overrun edition) and Schmidt & Bender 1-8x on semi-auto and bolt-action platforms.
www.thefirearmblog.com
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I really am confused about the hubbub around the P5FL. I mean, here is a reticle from the Hensoldt 3.5-26x56 from, like, 2018. I think the reticle itself is much older. Following that is a cropped P5FL.
I see S&B added some subtensions around the crosshair center and added numerals…but?
Hensoldt review
Data sheet on P5FL
I see S&B added some subtensions around the crosshair center and added numerals…but?
Hensoldt review
Data sheet on P5FL
Pick a country and find a dealer, https://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/find-a-dealer/europe.html?view=htmlmap&id=9
Would it be violating any export or import laws to bring it back on a plane?
I sent Jerry an email on 12/19 asking about reticle swaps on the 6-36. He made it clear that they wouldnt and cant do it and siad "they are magnification range and focal length specific" Direct quote from his email to me.
Has something changed, do they do this now???
I was told basically “if you see a reticle available for that model on the website, we can do the swap, but not all reticles are available for all models.” So for example, no GRID for the 5-20x, but yes on the 3-20x.
5-20US needs GRID, but I’m not paying $5K for that scope.
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