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223 80g ELDM 28"

I wouldn't get longer than the Wylde for those two bullets personally but up to you. That freebore will grow as you put a few thousand rounds down the barrel.

Below is a pic of the .223 loaded at 2.470" with a 75 ELD-M and a 75 ELD-M next to it to show how much is in case. It's about perfect for me with the boattail starting right at the shoulder to neck juncture. Good amount of bullet being held by the neck also so no movement for my shooting. If single loading then this isn't an issue usually.

IMG_E3989[1].JPG
 
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Rob01 said:
I wouldn't get longer than the Wylde for those two bullets personally but up to you. That freebore will grow as you put a few thousand rounds down the barrel.

Below is a pic of the .223 loaded at 2.470" with a 75 ELD-M and a 75 ELD-M next to it to show how much is in case. It's about perfect for me with the boattail starting right at the shoulder to neck juncture. Good amount of bullet being held by the neck also so no movement for my shooting. If single loading then this isn't an issue usually.

View attachment 8351431
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I mean that doesn't look too bad. But I would still have .040" of room to play in the magazine with the other reamer set up. I don't think you're going to ever outgrow that before the barrel is shot out, would you? I get its only .020" difference between the wylde and custom design, but I'd personally just prefer the latter for whatever reason, but like I said, I could live with the wylde chamber at 2.490" I will primarily be shooting only the 75/80g ELDMs. May not even shoot the 53s...

On a side note, what's the typical barrel life on a 223 with 75/80s?
 
kyotekiller25 said:
I mean that doesn't look too bad. But I would still have .040" of room to play in the magazine with the other reamer set up. I don't think you're going to ever outgrow that before the barrel is shot out, would you? I get its only .020" difference between the wylde and custom design, but I'd personally just prefer the latter for whatever reason, but like I said, I could live with the wylde chamber at 2.490" I will primarily be shooting only the 75/80g ELDMs. May not even shoot the 53s...

On a side note, what's the typical barrel life on a 223 with 75/80s?
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Your money so get what you like. "Whatever reason" is a good enough reason I guess. LOL
 
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Rob01 said:
Your money so get what you like. "Whatever reason" is a good enough reason I guess. LOL
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I'm not trying to sound like an asshole or anything, I just wanted to try and take full advantage of the mag length was all. But I have a lot better understanding of it now between the two of you. Like I said, I can live with the wylde if that's all he has. I'm not going to spend more money on a custom reamer or lead or whatever else it entails just to get that extra .020" in COAL, because at the end of the day, it doesn't really amount to shit haha. I just want it because I had it in my my head already if that makes sense. I doubt he has a custom reamer or leade to make it 2.510" so more than likely will end just doing the Wylde at 2.490" Again, thanks for your help. It is very much appreciated!

Also, do you have any idea on the barrel life, give or take? 3K, 5K, 10K?? I don't really know, would just like a general idea. I'm sure some of you have wore out some 223 barrels...
 
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Nah didn't take it that way and I understand about getting something in your head and wanting it. Also good you are ok with if he didn't have it to just go with what he does. No need to spend money on .020". ;)

Barrel life can depend on a number of factors like the load, how fast they are shot, how hot you get the barrel and how much accuracy you need. Most can get 6000+ from a .223 barrel and be happy with accuracy.
 
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Awesome, thank you sir. Suppose to be going over it with him this evening, so just trying to fully understand it before I talk to him about it.

Good to hear about the barrel life. I typically don't ever let my barrels get hot. I'm a slow fire type shooter, 1 round every minute or two, or three even depending on temps, summer/winter. There's no need for me to bang out rounds like an AK from a precision bolt rifle, it's just not what I do. These are all long range hunting/steel rifles so I try to discipline myself around 1 shot, 1 kill/hit type of mentality. On occasion I may do a PRS shoot, but in the back of my head I always cringe about shooting 6-10 shots in 2-3 minutes. I did that once with my 7-300 Win Mag in 100 degree August and by the 5th shot my barrel was so fucking hot I could smell steel...I just sat there and shook my head and said nope after that haha. I ended up taking 1st that match though, the Bartlein and 180g ELDMs were still drilling targets. I just won't ever do it again with that rifle...Good to know the 223 will last a good while because I plan on shooting it a lot more than my 6 creed and 7-300 just to save on those barrels and components. Again, I appreciate ya.
 
I am shooting the 78gr Barnes copper tsx hp in a 25-inch 1:7 Bartlein. 223 Remington. 25.2grs. Varget. 2893fps. Ogive length (measured with the Brownell's donut) 1.990. OAL 2.550. I am shooting the copper hollowpoints in a silhouette match to get more push on the rams. The chamber was set up to load the 88gr ELDM with the base even with the bottom of the neck. Action is Rem. Model Seven using a single-shot tray in magazine box.
 
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One last question here. I've searched high and low for lapua 223 brass. It's non existent, go figure.

So if I go with the wylde chamber in a bolt rifle, is it OK to use the 5.56x45 starline brass, or do i need to go with the 223 brass? After an hour of research, it seems like it's about my next best bet for the price, since the base of the 5.56 is a little heavier it seems like the better route to go.

Thanks
 
in my experience with a 69 SMK 24.5 grs 4895 hammers.

In a 223 there is no reason why any of the 4895 powders, that is IMR, AA2495, and H4895 will not produce outstanding accuracy. Lots of shooters have used IMR4895/H4895 in match loads with the 223 across all bullet weights.
 
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Thank you. I have 4# of IMR4895 and 2# of H4895. So it looks like I'll be set for a couple thousand rounds anyway!
 
Anyone have any luck with CFE 223? Pretty common here locally.
 
I have a 28” Ackley with .155fb and also a standard 26” 223 with .125fb. Both are 7t. I shoot 85.5s and 90SMKs around 2850fps in the AI and 75/80 ELDs around 2900fps in the regular 223.

I’ve had zero issues with the 75s in the .125 chamber. Right around .25 jump. The .155 Ackley is a little too long for where they usually like to shoot and much better suited for the heavies.

4895 is about as ideal a powder as you’ll find for 223 in my opinion. Varget is a close second but considerably slower. CFE223 also works fine, just not nearly as temp stable as 4895, Varget, or even 8208.
 
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kyotekiller25 said:
One last question here. I've searched high and low for lapua 223 brass. It's non existent, go figure.

So if I go with the wylde chamber in a bolt rifle, is it OK to use the 5.56x45 starline brass, or do i need to go with the 223 brass? After an hour of research, it seems like it's about my next best bet for the price, since the base of the 5.56 is a little heavier it seems like the better route to go.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Yeah the Starline 5.56 works great. I have 600 of them I use. Buy it.
 
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Rob01 said:
Yeah the Starline 5.56 works great. I have 600 of them I use. Buy it.
Click to expand...
Perfect! I ordered 200 of them. They were also super hard to find in stock, but I finally found a smaller place that had 8 bags in stock. Don't tell me we are headed into another crazy shortage just as things seemed to be getting a little better...
 
I’m no expert but iv been experimenting a lot with .223 and all the common 75-88 gr bullets. I test what ever bullets I choose to pursue over varget, tac, Staball match, n540, and 2520. H 4895 I would love to try, but iv only found it once in the past 2 years and I don’t want to waste time on something I can’t find. Iv had the most luck with 2520.
 
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03machstock said:
I’m no expert but iv been experimenting a lot with .223 and all the common 75-88 gr bullets. I test what ever bullets I choose to pursue over varget, tac, Staball match, n540, and 2520. H 4895 I would love to try, but iv only found it once in the past 2 years and I don’t want to waste time on something I can’t find. Iv had the most luck with 2520.
Click to expand...
No I totally get that these days. Funny thing is one of the little local shops here in town had several kegs of H4895 a couple months ago. My dumbass didn't think anything of it because I didn't have this 223 build in mind so I just looked at them and went on my merry way...I called them back last week and asked if they still had any H4895 and he said no, we sold the last keg like 2 days ago. Fuuuuuuuuck me haha. Called around to all the other local shops, and even the next town 30 minutes. Said they never see it either, go figure. Just my luck as usual 🤣 I told them to give me a call the next time the one shop gets it in, so hopefully I can pick up a keg before I'm done with the 2# I have of it, and the 4# of IMR4895 I also have. I'm not typically the one to try all these new random odd ball powders either, because you never know how long they'll be around either. I prefer the old standbys myself.
 
kyotekiller25 said:
No I totally get that these days. Funny thing is one of the little local shops here in town had several kegs of H4895 a couple months ago. My dumbass didn't think anything of it because I didn't have this 223 build in mind so I just looked at them and went on my merry way...I called them back last week and asked if they still had any H4895 and he said no, we sold the last keg like 2 days ago. Fuuuuuuuuck me haha. Called around to all the other local shops, and even the next town 30 minutes. Said they never see it either, go figure. Just my luck as usual 🤣 I told them to give me a call the next time the one shop gets it in, so hopefully I can pick up a keg before I'm done with the 2# I have of it, and the 4# of IMR4895 I also have. I'm not typically the one to try all these new random odd ball powders either, because you never know how long they'll be around either. I prefer the old standbys myself.
Click to expand...

Lots of good powders to shoot 223 with.. I have testing/data on 8208, Varget, H4895, AR Comp, Tac, RE15. VV powders are much easier to find and shoot excellent. N133 for the lighter bullets, N140, N150, etc
 
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For anyone that cared or wanted to see, here is my dummy round for my 0.080fb custom reamer with a 75 ELD.

As you can see, boattail/bearing surface junction is right at the neck/shoulder junction, not up the case neck like some think. Its pretty much perfect. But, like I said, Ive shot tons of 223 Wylde bolt gun barrels on my TL3 as well and they hammer too. Not a huge difference here. I just wanted optimal for what I shoot. I also have a slightly tighter NO turn neck than Wylde as well.

I designed for right at the junction but a lot of guys actually go right above that junction to stay away from any potential donuts. Im happy with mine and it shoots lights out.


hpmAukQ.jpeg


7k2vBW7.jpeg


171P9m6.jpeg
 
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padom said:
For anyone that cared or wanted to see, here is my dummy round for my 0.080fb custom reamer with a 75 ELD.

As you can see, boattail/bearing surface junction is right at the neck/shoulder junction, not up the case neck like some think. Its pretty much perfect. But, like I said, Ive shot tons of 223 Wylde bolt gun barrels on my TL3 as well and they hammer too. Not a huge difference here. I just wanted optimal for what I shoot. I also have a slightly tighter NO turn neck than Wylde as well.

I designed for right at the junction but a lot of guys actually go right above that junction to stay away from any potential donuts. Im happy with mine and it shoots lights out.


hpmAukQ.jpeg


7k2vBW7.jpeg


171P9m6.jpeg
Click to expand...
I like it! I'm gonna ask him and see if he can make it to 2.510" if not, 2.490" should work out just fine. I'm not gonna pay anymore than I have to already though just for that extra .020"

Far as powders go, I also need something temp insensitive. Why I always usually prefer Hodgdons extreme powders. Temps here get to 0-100 between summer/winter months. And I hate ball powders, I don't use them...
 
I haven't seen it mentioned yet (probably a reason I suppose), but I have had excellent results in the 68/69 and 75/77gr bullets with Reloader 15. The downside is that it is pretty temperature sensitive, but it flat out hammered in my old .223 trainer barrel. I tried just a thrown together barrel break-in load here recently with it on my new barrel and some old 69gr SMKs, and was happy enough with the results that I'll be going that route again. And that was with beat up range RP brass and almost no prep. Barrel is a .223 Wylde chambered Krieger.

I'll also 3rd or 4th the recommendation on Starline .223/5.56 brass. I ran a few dozen pieces of it through several measurements and it was very consistent...thick (reduced case capacity), but consistent. That mirrored my experiences with Starline in both the 6.5 CM and 6.5 Grendel.
 
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kyotekiller25 said:
Perfect! I ordered 200 of them. They were also super hard to find in stock, but I finally found a smaller place that had 8 bags in stock. Don't tell me we are headed into another crazy shortage just as things seemed to be getting a little better...
Click to expand...
I’m running lc brass. Inexpensive and shoots just as good as my Lapua.
 
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So I got the details all worked out with the smith. He is going to make the COAL at 2.510" to the lands with an 80g ELDM at no extra charge. Will still leave me .050" of mag length room at .010" off the lands, which is typically where I like to start anyway. The Bartlein showed up yesterday so I'll be taking everything to him Tuesday and should have it done and back by Thursday or Friday at the latest. Thanks for all the help guys. A ton of great information on this thread.
 
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kyotekiller25 said:
So I got the details all worked out with the smith. He is going to make the COAL at 2.510" to the lands with an 80g ELDM at no extra charge. Will still leave me .050" of mag length room at .010" off the lands, which is typically where I like to start anyway. The Bartlein showed up yesterday so I'll be taking everything to him Tuesday and should have it done and back by Thursday or Friday at the latest. Thanks for all the help guys. A ton of great information on this thread.
Click to expand...
Keep us posted on what loads work for you. Should shoot great. In my wylde chamber I'm right about 2.530" to the lands with the 80 eld. I'd like to try a hornady oal gauge to compare that. I've been mainly using the wheeler method.
 
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Will definitely keep you guys posted!

This got me thinking actually since you said you're using the 80g ELDM, which is probably what I'm going to shoot 1st since I have them on my shelf, and not the 75s. Your COAL to lands is 2.530"

I'm going to take padoms picture for reference and lay an 80g ELDM next to a 223 case and measure the boattail junction to the neck shoulder junction and see what that COAL comes out to. I believe it might be a tad longer than his 75 eldm since the 80g eldm is a touch longer bullet, therefor should have a longer COAL and then just go with that length. Which would still give me approximately .030" of room in the mag, being .010" off the lands at 2.530" give or take depending what the measurement comes out to.
 
So this is what I came up with. I can get about 2.540" at the boattail/neck junction base. So if I was to go .010" off that, or the lands, it'd be right around 2.530" for my starting point.

Now my next question for you guys would be is this enough room to chase the lands as my throat gets some rounds down it? Mag length is 2.550" so that'd give me say .020" of room to work with over the course of the barrel. Or is that cutting it to close in your guys professional opinion? Where would you set up the 80g ELDM if you were in my position? He's not charging me any extra to have it throated to whatever I want. He just wants the dummy round so he can set it to my specs.
20240222_221450.jpg
 
Hard to say. It might shoot better farther off the lands.
 
Mauser48 said:
Hard to say. It might shoot better farther off the lands.
Click to expand...
Well that should be ok then because I can always just seat it further down if that's the case, right? I usually just like to start at a max length of .010" off the lands and work my way down from there if need be. I have no intentions of being at, or in the lands since this is a dual purpose dog/steel rifle.
 
Well here she is boys, just picked her up! 2.510" to the lands with an 80g ELDM. R700, Greyboe Renegade M5, Bartlein 28" HV 8 twist, 1.5# Timney, Oversized bolt knob, Leupold MK4 20 MOA base, MK4 rings, MK4 6.5-20x. Weight 15#
20240227_173045.jpg

Resized_20240218_133509.jpeg
 
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kyotekiller25 said:
Well here she is boys, just picked her up! 2.510" to the lands with an 80g ELDM. R700, Greyboe Renegade M5, Bartlein 28" HV 8 twist, 1.5# Timney, Oversized bolt knob, Leupold MK4 20 MOA base, MK4 rings, MK4 6.5-20x. Weight 15#
View attachment 8360042
View attachment 8360043
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Bet it's going to shoot awesome. I was just shooting mine last weekend with the 80 eld. Its looking like varget is going to be more accurate for me than the 8208 xbr. 8208 with the 77s is awesome though.
 
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I have high hopes anyway haha.

Going to start with IMR and H4895. Do a quick ladder with each for pressure/velocity check then just load them up where it looks good for the rest of the 200 pieces of fresh starline 556 brass. Then I'll get a little more serious with load development.
 
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My 26” Benchmark barrel yields just over 2900fps with 23.8gr of Varget. This is with the 80gr Berger VLD’s.
 
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jLorenzo said:
Looks good. How do you the like HV Bart? Been considering on but have only handled my m24.
Click to expand...
Thanks. The HV Bartlein is a pretty thick bitch. Honestly was not my first choice, but it was my only choice in an 8 twist with a finish length of 28" that I could find in almost 2 years. My other rifles are a 6 Creed with a 27" BRUX and my 7-300 Win Mag with a 28" Bartlein (and my 1st choice) have the Rem Varmint contours. Rifle weight on all 3 is right at or between 15-16# ready to go. With that said, it's actually pretty well balanced since most of the weight is in the shank area or first 5-6". I was afraid it'd be super barrel heavy, but it balances on the bags quite nice.

I was able to run 2 ladders today at 300 yards with IMR4895/H4895 in .2g increments at 2.5" COAL and the 80g ELDM. I started pretty low since I've read where the starline 5.56 brass is thicker with less internal volume and going off quickload. I went from 21.5-23.3 with IMR4895 and velocity topped out at 2750fps with a lower node between 22.9-23.3 at 2730 fps and a 2" group. No pressure signs at all there, so I think I'll slowly go up until I hit 2900-2950fps or pressure signs, and see what happens there. H4895 I went from 22.2-24 and velocity topped out at 2835fps. I hit a nice lower node at 22.8-23.2 with a 1.2" group, but a dismal 2700fps. Again no pressure signs at all so will also be slowly going up in charge until I hit 2900-2950fps, or pressure signs and see what happens. I still have Benchmark and IMR8208XBR to try with the 80s, and I also have all 4 powders loaded with the 75s as well.

Either I have the slowest 28" Bartlein 223 in the world, or the slowest lots of powder, but either way I would've thought my velocities would be quite a bit higher than that so far with the 4895 powders...Pretty disappointing actually. Temp was 45-50 degrees, 5 mph winds, and the mirage was absolutely terrible. Not sure I can get much more powder in to get my desired velocities as I'm already crunching/compressed at 23.5-24 with the 4895s...
20240305_113608.jpg

20240305_204900.jpg

20240305_204936.jpg
 
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Might try Varget also, it would probably get you a little more speed. I bet the barrel will speed up as you shoot it more also.
 
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kyotekiller25 said:
Thanks. The HV Bartlein is a pretty thick bitch. Honestly was not my first choice, but it was my only choice in an 8 twist with a finish length of 28" that I could find in almost 2 years. My other rifles are a 6 Creed with a 27" BRUX and my 7-300 Win Mag with a 28" Bartlein (and my 1st choice) have the Rem Varmint contours. Rifle weight on all 3 is right at or between 15-16# ready to go. With that said, it's actually pretty well balanced since most of the weight is in the shank area or first 5-6". I was afraid it'd be super barrel heavy, but it balances on the bags quite nice.

I was able to run 2 ladders today at 300 yards with IMR4895/H4895 in .2g increments at 2.5" COAL and the 80g ELDM. I started pretty low since I've read where the starline 5.56 brass is thicker with less internal volume and going off quickload. I went from 21.5-23.3 with IMR4895 and velocity topped out at 2750fps with a lower node between 22.9-23.3 at 2730 fps and a 2" group. No pressure signs at all there, so I think I'll slowly go up until I hit 2900-2950fps or pressure signs, and see what happens there. H4895 I went from 22.2-24 and velocity topped out at 2835fps. I hit a nice lower node at 22.8-23.2 with a 1.2" group, but a dismal 2700fps. Again no pressure signs at all so will also be slowly going up in charge until I hit 2900-2950fps, or pressure signs and see what happens. I still have Benchmark and IMR8208XBR to try with the 80s, and I also have all 4 powders loaded with the 75s as well.

Either I have the slowest 28" Bartlein 223 in the world, or the slowest lots of powder, but either way I would've thought my velocities would be quite a bit higher than that so far with the 4895 powders...Pretty disappointing actually. Temp was 45-50 degrees, 5 mph winds, and the mirage was absolutely terrible. Not sure I can get much more powder in to get my desired velocities as I'm already crunching/compressed at 23.5-24 with the 4895s...
View attachment 8365919
View attachment 8365920
View attachment 8365921
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What stock is that, Boyd Pro Varmint? It looks nice.

I found 8208XBR and Bench Mark to give good velocities with 75gr BTHPs in my 18” 223, around 2750fps from both.
Both were a lot quicker than Varget.
 
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jLorenzo said:
Might try Varget also, it would probably get you a little more speed. I bet the barrel will speed up as you shoot it more also.
Click to expand...

Varget actually gives less speed than H4895.. H4895 always produces higher velocities than Varget in my 20+ 223 bolt gun barrels


I would have loaded 100rd and went and shot them to get rds down that barrel and 1x brass then started load development. Also, IMR and H 4895 are not the same thing.

I shoot 80s at 2900 out of my 26" 223 bolt guns... 75's @ 3000
 
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beetroot said:
What stock is that, Boyd Pro Varmint? It looks nice.

I found 8208XBR and Bench Mark to give good velocities with 75gr BTHPs in my 18” 223, around 2750fps from both.
Both were a lot quicker than Varget.
Click to expand...
It's a Greyboe Renegade M5
 
padom said:
Varget actually gives less speed than H4895.. H4895 always produces higher velocities than Varget in my 20+ 223 bolt gun barrels


I would have loaded 100rd and went and shot them to get rds down that barrel and 1x brass then started load development. Also, IMR and H 4895 are not the same thing.

I shoot 80s at 2900 out of my 26" 223 bolt guns... 75's @ 3000
Click to expand...
I know I could have just loaded 100 of something random, but I still wanted a rough idea of velocity and accuracy with a few different combos.

I fully realize IMR and H4895 are not the same, however they are pretty close, and that's why I am playing with both. However they're both pretty damn slow at this time, not even close to what quickload is predicting. 150 and 250fps slower, I mean come on really...

I don't have any varget to try. And not really interested in it since I have 4 other suitable powders to work with.

H4895 is suppose to be one of the faster powders followed by IMR4895. Benchmark and IMR8208XBR are around 75-100fps slower than those 2 respectively.

I should be around 2975-3000fps with the 4895s and the 80s, and 3050-3075 with the 75s. I don't really see that happening at this time. I see everyone else is getting 2900-2950 with a 26" tube and 4895/varget fairly easy with 80s. Kinda irritated I'm not even close to that with a 28" is all.
 
Ditch the 5.56 brass and get some LC brass. On my last 223rem 16” I started with Norma 5.56 brass, varget, and 80gr elds. I couldn’t run much over 2550fps without piecing primers. Found a load that shot well at 2500fps but wanted more speed. Now using LC I run at 2650fps and I’m still 0.8gr away from any signs of pressure with 24gr. It was a 150fps gain at milder pressures just switching brass.
 
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CA48 said:
Ditch the 5.56 brass and get some LC brass. On my last 223rem 16” I started with Norma 5.56 brass, varget, and 80gr elds. I couldn’t run much over 2550fps without piecing primers. Found a load that shot well at 2500fps but wanted more speed. Now using LC I run at 2650fps and I’m still 0.8gr away from any signs of pressure with 24gr. It was a 150fps gain at milder pressures just switching brass.
Click to expand...
I have some Lapua brass on the way. Will be trying that also. Just got the starline 5.56 because I read it was really good brass for the money and thicker in the case web area.
 
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