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New 6mm Advanced Rifle Cartridge

Geissele is just trying to be KAC and thinks pricing their shit through the roof will get them there. If they got the contract I could see them getting those prices but I’m pretty sure that was Barrett. IMO even at their 25-30% off sale prices their stuff is over priced for what you get. Especially when Bill won’t even return your phone call 😂
 
They announced a new 2 stage trigger for the AK platform at Shot for $400....So I guess $100 6 ARC mags falls in the new premium G pricing category.
 
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I have a Larue in 6.5G and was just planning on getting a proof barrel in 6 arc when I ran out of Grendel ammo. But a year or so ago saw that Geissele was working on a gun just for the 6 arc.. I was interested... the price of the gun was kind of about where I thought it would be.. not that big a deal..

But the mags ? WTF ? That is like Larue, KAC, or AI mag prices It is probably built on par with them.

But is there actually a problem with just using Grendel mags ?
 
I have a Larue in 6.5G and was just planning on getting a proof barrel in 6 arc when I ran out of Grendel ammo. But a year or so ago saw that Geissele was working on a gun just for the 6 arc.. I was interested... the price of the gun was kind of about where I thought it would be.. not that big a deal..

But the mags ? WTF ? That is like Larue, KAC, or AI mag prices It is probably built on par with them.

But is there actually a problem with just using Grendel mags ?

No problem at all. Those of us shooting 6mm Grendel-based wildcats (and the 6 PPC, which is even shorter than the 6 ARC) were doing so for years with Grendel mags without thinking we needed the specific cartridge name marked on them. The difference in caliber and tiny change in shoulder position makes no difference whatsoever in Grendel mags; have at it.
 
I have a 6mm arc that I have been using, its a 20“ CMMG upper, and a palmetto stealth lower. I literally put all my budget in a scope and scope mount. But I did buy some 26rd Duramag’s with the gun. I have not had a single failure after hundreds of rounds.

I really want to try some of these Geissele magazines though. They look much better and they even have a 30rd option. But $110 each is just too much.

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when these first came out, probably couple years back by now, Brownells had them, at a slight discount to the G website, and you could use a promo code to get some more off, but they're not even listed on the Brownells website at this time.

used to be $57 for the 15rd, and $65 for the 25rd at Brownells.
 
when these first came out, probably couple years back by now, Brownells had them, at a slight discount to the G website, and you could use a promo code to get some more off, but they're not even listed on the Brownells website at this time.

used to be $57 for the 15rd, and $65 for the 25rd at Brownells.
Yep. Big G also took orders from dealers then never delivered. Had I known Geissele would double the price by the time they got around to fulfillment I’d have told my dealer to keep the order lmao.
 
Just a heads up for anyone waiting for it, Scheels shows the ELD-VT ammo in stock for 6ARC. I was going to order some but they require some stupid ID me bullshit that I didn’t feel like signing up for it. Hopefully other retailers will start getting it, but it looks like it has started shipping.

 
Just a heads up for anyone waiting for it, Scheels shows the ELD-VT ammo in stock for 6ARC. I was going to order some but they require some stupid ID me bullshit that I didn’t feel like signing up for it. Hopefully other retailers will start getting it, but it looks like it has started shipping.

Was going to run into my local scheels and grab some, but just got some loaded 58gr vmax from Druid Hill Armory to try out first.
 
Just a heads up for anyone waiting for it, Scheels shows the ELD-VT ammo in stock for 6ARC. I was going to order some but they require some stupid ID me bullshit that I didn’t feel like signing up for it. Hopefully other retailers will start getting it, but it looks like it has started shipping.



Thanks! I ordered a few boxes of the 80gr.
 
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Has anyone had good accuracy and speed with staball match?

I want to build a rifle in 6arc but the fact that you can only get good speed and accuracy is by using some of the most temp unstable powders on the market, is a turn off to me.
 
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@Jmccracken1214

Don't use my info as it is over book max!!!! :cool:

I can share some info about 6mm ARC and Staball Match. I was surprised no pressure signs on the brass, even at the higher charges.

The two groups below are from a ladder test, these are the nodes I found. Next node would be 28.8 which I need to reshoot, pulled a shot in that group but man it has some promise. Next time out I will revisit the 28.8 area. Just for reference the 28.8 charge yielded a AVG of 2600 FPS with the SMK 107s.

Gas Gun - 20" Proof Stainless & Garmin Xero Chrono

6mm ARC - New Starline 6.5 Grendel Brass (resized) - CCI 450 - 107 SMK - COL: 2.245" - 27.2gr StaBall Match - AVG 2420.5 FPS
6mm ARC - New Starline 6.5 Grendel Brass (resized) - CCI 450 - 107 SMK - COL: 2.245" - 28.0gr StaBall Match - AVG 2491.5 FPS

Also included a 10 shot group of Hornady Black, which has the 105gr bullet. That 10 shot group averaged 2643.8

Hope this helps!

All the best!
J
 

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Looks like good results accuracy wise. How dirty is Staball? I'm having issues with Lvr clogging my gas tube and then short stroking after ~k rounds. I hear it is cleaner if it is near the top end, but I think that goes for most any powder. I'm @2550 with Berger 105s in a 20" barrel.
Thx for posting groups.
 
@newageroman

I've found Staball Match to be much cleaner than Lever, I'll agree Lever was really sooty, especially when suppressed. I don't go as long as you before cleaning, but Staball is definitely cleaner than Lever.

Remember my loads above are over book max so use with caution. I'll will revisit 28.8gr next time I go out, that charge (node) also really showed promise.

All the best,
J
 
Good to know. I have some staball I may use next time. I doubt I will go that high on the load. I normally load most of my ammo in the mid range velocities/pressures and work up looking for pressure.
 
The 80 grain ELD-VT arrived from Scheels yesterday, tiny little things. The OAL in a 10 round Duramag left plety of room for tip clearance. Doubt I'll have time in this month to try them out but I'll report back as soon as I do.
 
Looks like good results accuracy wise. How dirty is Staball? I'm having issues with Lvr clogging my gas tube and then short stroking after ~k rounds. I hear it is cleaner if it is near the top end, but I think that goes for most any powder. I'm @2550 with Berger 105s in a 20" barrel.
Thx for posting groups.

Why would you use Lever if not near the top end? That what it's good for; if you want milder loads there are better powder choices for that.

Choose the right tool for the job.
 
I am still waiting on the Geissele SD-E trigger and for my AAC SDN-6 to get back from Echo Machine for the HUB conversion, but other than that the 6 ARC is done.

  • LMT MARS-L MRP
  • Proof Research Carbon 18" 6 ARC barrel 1:7.5 twist Rifle +1, D. Wilson LMT Barrel conversion w/SLR Micro Gas Block
  • Rearden SPB .375/HUB
  • JP Enterprises 6mm ARC Bolt
  • Night Force ATACR 4-16x42 Mil-XT
  • Reptilia AUS 34mm 0 moa

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The 80 grain ELD-VT arrived from Scheels yesterday, tiny little things. The OAL in a 10 round Duramag left plety of room for tip clearance. Doubt I'll have time in this month to try them out but I'll report back as soon as I do.
This was a smal sample size in quite a bit of wind 17-20mph mostly headwind. Sighted my Cmmg Resolute 16” 6ARC on the shoot and see target. Then I was getting my holdover (300 yards steel) right on my sig tango 1-6 Top 2 on the steel were my first shots on the 1st line of the bdc reticle. Then went too low on the second two shots. Finally center punched it. The 80 eld vt shoots pretty good in my rifle 😎
 

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Black Hills is coming out with a 90 grain solid copper with a Lehigh Defense bullet. Not setting any speed records, 2650 out of an 18” barrel. Still, if it is up to their precision standards it’ll be attractive, speed isn’t everything. They say it is flatter than their 103 grain -X offering out to 600 yards.


 
Black Hills is coming out with a 90 grain solid copper with a Lehigh Defense bullet. Not setting any speed records, 2650 out of an 18” barrel. Still, if it is up to their precision standards it’ll be attractive, speed isn’t everything. They say it is flatter than their 103 grain -X offering out to 600 yards.



While I agree that speed isn't everything I would definitely like to see much more than that out of a 90 grain.
 
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I am still waiting on the Geissele SD-E trigger and for my AAC SDN-6 to get back from Echo Machine for the HUB conversion, but other than that the 6 ARC is done.

  • LMT MARS- L MRP
  • Proof Research Carbon 18" 6 ARC barrel 1:7.5 twist Rifle +1, D. Wilson LMT Barrel conversion w/SLR Micro Gas Block
  • Rearden SPB .375/HUB
  • JP Enterprises 6mm ARC Bolt
  • Night Force ATACR 4-16x42 Mil-XT
  • Reptilia AUS 34mm 0 moa

m5JByG0.jpg

9ViyeAe.jpg

How is the accuracy on the D.Wilson proof conversion?
 
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I finally found time this morning to get to the range and initially sight in the 6 ARC. I decided to start with the new Hornady VT 80 grain stuff since there's very little feedback on it at the moment. It's hard to say how it's grouping with this load since this was the initial sight-in trip where I was more or less worried about getting it on paper consistently. I did have two and three-round groups that were right at if not sub 1/2 moa. The two five-round groups I did shoot were in the 1.3-1.5 moa range but I know it's capable of better if you can keep a consistent shooting position without having to manually charge the gun each round. It was obviously hard to be consistent with the groupings due to the fact that the rifle had a FTE on every single round.

The barrel is a Proof Carbon 18", the gas system is a Rifle +1 and I am running a Carbine buffer, no adjustable gas block, JP bolt in a LMT SA bolt carrier, so I am not really sure where to go from here in regards to the gas system issue?! Thoughts?
I plan to run this rifle suppressed 100% of the time but I won't know how it functions with the can until it gets back from Echo Machine. I suspect it'll function better on ejection/extraction with the added back pressure of the can. That said, I do want the rifle to function properly both when suppressed and without the can so I need to get to the bottom of this FTE/short stroke issue. I plan to run the 108 ELD's once I burn through the VT's.


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So I recently purchased a 6 ARC 20” complete upper with 1/8 twist. Unfortunately I didn’t do enough research prior to purchasing and now know optimal twist is 1/7 to 1/7.5. My question is what would you guys recommend be the heaviest bullet I could run with decent results in accuracy. Wanting to shoot between 3 to 6 hundred yards. Or should I punt and purchase new upper?
 
So I recently purchased a 6 ARC 20” complete upper with 1/8 twist. Unfortunately I didn’t do enough research prior to purchasing and now know optimal twist is 1/7 to 1/7.5. My question is what would you guys recommend be the heaviest bullet I could run with decent results in accuracy. Wanting to shoot between 3 to 6 hundred yards. Or should I punt and purchase new upper?

In your case of keeping it 600 and closer I'd probably grab a box of the new Hornady VT 80 grain to start with. If it does ok, (bergers bullet stability tool says your good) then try some of the 90-100gr projectiles.
 
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In your case of keeping it 600 and closer I'd probably grab a box of the new Hornady VT 80 grain to start with. If it does ok, (bergers bullet stability tool says your good) then try some of the 90-100gr projectiles.
Thanks Capri,
That was kinda my thoughts I am just looking for additional opinions. I’m debating new barrels as well. I would really like to have a solid long range gun but budget is coming into play. I should also mention I will be hand loading once I’ve got enough components gathered up
 
I ran the 80 VT's through my 18" Proof 7.5 twist last week. Had some promising small groups but I don't have any firm data until I can figure out the gas issues.
 
So I recently purchased a 6 ARC 20” complete upper with 1/8 twist. Unfortunately I didn’t do enough research prior to purchasing and now know optimal twist is 1/7 to 1/7.5. My question is what would you guys recommend be the heaviest bullet I could run with decent results in accuracy. Wanting to shoot between 3 to 6 hundred yards. Or should I punt and purchase new upper?

I regularly shoot the 95 VLD TGT in a 1/8 twist.
 
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An 8 twist might well work for 105gr hybrids or 108gr ELDs, I think I'd give it a try before throwing in the towel.
 
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Geissele is just trying to be KAC and thinks pricing their shit through the roof will get them there. If they got the contract I could see them getting those prices but I’m pretty sure that was Barrett. IMO even at their 25-30% off sale prices their stuff is over priced for what you get. Especially when Bill won’t even return your phone call 😂
I’m honestly thinking about trying one. When adding up my parts I’m like 2300$ or more. I kinda like some of the ideas of what they implemented and like it when people try to push the bar. This is a potential thermal coyote rifle for me and I need it to be 100% so the idea of it not being as finicky is a strong selling point.

Then again it could be all snake oil. If i grab it I’ll try to do a short write up for everyone.
 
I’m honestly thinking about trying one. When adding up my parts I’m like 2300$ or more. I kinda like some of the ideas of what they implemented and like it when people try to push the bar. This is a potential thermal coyote rifle for me and I need it to be 100% so the idea of it not being as finicky is a strong selling point.

Then again it could be all snake oil. If i grab it I’ll try to do a short write up for everyone.

That was my planned role for it as well, at least initially. As of right now I have some gas issues I need to work through before I can put it through its paces and see if it'll prove to be reliable enough for that role. So far I can see that the accuracy is likely there which is promising but I am far from feeling confident about it. Note I am not talking about the Geissele rifle specifically, just my personal 6 ARC AR.
 
An 8 twist might well work for 105gr hybrids or 108gr ELDs, I think I'd give it a try before throwing in the towel.
Yeah I’ve got some other rifles I could take the lower off of and try it out! I would consider sticking with the 1/8 but I really like the performance of the 1/7 I’ve been reading about. This build will probably be my last for a while and I’m wanting to get it right the first time.
 
I've been looking at the heavy end of the projectile spectrum and I'm wondering if anyone has tried these:

Barnes Match burners in 112gr & 105gr
Sierra matchking 110gr and 107gr
Berger 108gr elite hunter and 109gr target
Berger 105-115 VLD
Nosler 105-115gr RDF, 107 competition

I'm gonna guess that some like the nosler 115gr, and Berger 115gr are to long to fit in the magazines? Really curious how the Barnes match burners are working.
 
I finally found time this morning to get to the range and initially sight in the 6 ARC. I decided to start with the new Hornady VT 80 grain stuff since there's very little feedback on it at the moment. It's hard to say how it's grouping with this load since this was the initial sight-in trip where I was more or less worried about getting it on paper consistently. I did have two and three-round groups that were right at if not sub 1/2 moa. The two five-round groups I did shoot were in the 1.3-1.5 moa range but I know it's capable of better if you can keep a consistent shooting position without having to manually charge the gun each round. It was obviously hard to be consistent with the groupings due to the fact that the rifle had a FTE on every single round.

The barrel is a Proof Carbon 18", the gas system is a Rifle +1 and I am running a Carbine buffer, no adjustable gas block, JP bolt in a LMT SA bolt carrier, so I am not really sure where to go from here in regards to the gas system issue?! Thoughts?
I plan to run this rifle suppressed 100% of the time but I won't know how it functions with the can until it gets back from Echo Machine. I suspect it'll function better on ejection/extraction with the added back pressure of the can. That said, I do want the rifle to function properly both when suppressed and without the can so I need to get to the bottom of this FTE/short stroke issue. I plan to run the 108 ELD's once I burn through the VT's.


ZDPNwU9.jpg

11JdozF.jpg
Is your gas system sealed? What’s your gas port diameter?
 
Is your gas system sealed? What’s your gas port diameter?

No gas leaks present at the gas block. Proof shows a .096 port size for the 18" barrel. My can gets back this week so I hope to get it out and see how it does with the added back pressure of the can, that said, I do want it to work reliably without a can as well.
 
I've been looking at the heavy end of the projectile spectrum and I'm wondering if anyone has tried these:

Berger 108gr elite hunter and 109gr target
Berger 105-115 VLD

I'm running Berger 109 LRHT with 29.7gr of LVR at 2.25" with great results (2725fps out of 26" barrel).

I tried to get the 105 VLDs to shoot well, but couldn't find a load or seating depth that gave me as good or better results than what I was getting with 110 A-Tips and 109 LRHTs.

95 VLDs shoot well in a 16.5" Proof I have on another rifle though, so it could be the 26" doesn't like VLDs for some reason.
 
No gas leaks present at the gas block. Proof shows a .096 port size for the 18" barrel. My can gets back this week so I hope to get it out and see how it does with the added back pressure of the can, that said, I do want it to work reliably without a can as well.
Your port probably isn’t big enough for 80s unsuppressed, but once you suppress, it will likely run like a raped ape.

If you open the port to get it to run reliably unsuppressed, it will probably be gassy suppressed.

This is why I like Bootleg carriers so much.
 
I've been looking at the heavy end of the projectile spectrum and I'm wondering if anyone has tried these:

Barnes Match burners in 112gr & 105gr
Sierra matchking 110gr and 107gr
Berger 108gr elite hunter and 109gr target
Berger 105-115 VLD
Nosler 105-115gr RDF, 107 competition

I'm gonna guess that some like the nosler 115gr, and Berger 115gr are to long to fit in the magazines? Really curious how the Barnes match burners are working.
I've used 107 SMK and Berger 105 hybrids in a 22" barrel. Both are plenty accurate (typically .6" and better groups @ 100). The SMK is my preferred pill because it's been easy to get and quite a bit cheaper than the 105. Velocity for the 107 is 2730 with Lever.
 
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Your port probably isn’t big enough for 80s unsuppressed, but once you suppress, it will likely run like a raped ape.

If you open the port to get it to run reliably unsuppressed, it will probably be gassy suppressed.

This is why I like Bootleg carriers so much.

I have yet to see how it runs with the 108's, I really want to see which of the two loads (80 VT vs. 108 ELD) it shoots best and then settle on that for the long haul. I'd rather the rifle run smoothly and reliably suppressed than the other way around as it will be shot suppressed 95% of the time. I'll wait and see how it does suppressed with the 80's before I make any changes. That said, I'll look into those adjustable carriers as it might be the best solution in the long run.
 
Any input on how they worked for you?
First caveat, I'm shooting 6mm Grendel, but I've been following ARC from the beginning and the data is identical.

That said, they all shot well with the exception that I've never shot the RDF's on paper, just on distant steel and it worked fine given the conditions.
You could tell the 110SMK and 112MB had higher BC's beyond 800 yards, but not by enough to get excited about. Maybe if I shot past 1000 regularly.

I standardized on the 107SMK just because they shot well and I got a bunch cheap. I still occasionally shoot the other ones just because I loaded a bunch for testing and haven't burned them up yet, and using my 107SMK dope is pretty much dead on for any of them inside 800.
 
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First caveat, I'm shooting 6mm Grendel, but I've been following ARC from the beginning and the data is identical.

That's said, they all shot well with the exception that I've never shot the RDF's on paper, just on distant steel and it worked fine given the conditions.
You could tell the 110SMK and 112MB had higher BC's beyond 800 yards, but not by enough to get excited about. Maybe if I shot past 1000 regularly.

I standardized on the 107SMK just because they shot well and I got a bunch cheap. I still occasionally shoot the other ones just because I loaded a bunch for testing and haven't burned them up yet, and using my 107SMK dope is pretty much dead on for any of them inside 800.

Ok ya that helps! I'm kinda leaning to the 105MB for everyday shooting and the 110SMK for stretching it.
 
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