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What do you wish someone told you when you first started in precision shooting?

C

CaptSmythe

Private
Minuteman
Mar 10, 2024
3
4
Cincinnati
Hi everyone,

I’m pretty new to guns overall, despite bing “middle age”. I bought my first gun about 2.5 years ago.

I want to get into long range shooting, and there are sooo many different options & opinions.

I have built a couple of AR’s including a custom <4lb AR that I shoot 2-3 moa consistently from a bag with a 3x dot.

I want to build a precision rifle that can get out to 400m + and will be more capable than I am. Both as a beginner and as I grow into it.
I don’t hunt, this is primarily for range, maybe competition a couple years down the road. Mostly for fun.

1st consideration:
Caliber - I’ve been between .308 and 6.5CM. Mostly because I thought .308 would be easier to get and more cost effective.
But searching recently they look to be pretty close in price and availability.
My understanding is 6.5CM has better ballistics farther out.
Should I be considering anything else?

2nd consideration:
Action - completely overwhelmed here.
Howa 1500? Tikka T3? R700?
I’ve been eyeing a Howa M1500 with the carbon barreled action, complete rifle for a price less than the barreled action sells for.
I assume it’s the exact same barrel/ action

I can swap the chassis & trigger at some point in the future.

Barrel length - 24in?

Where are my blind spots.

What did you wish someone role you when you were first starting?

Thanks!
 
6.5 would be better for what you want to accomplish

Howa would be fine. Tikka is my preference. Lots of aftermarket R700 actions. Lots of threads out there already so just search for that and narrow your options down by preferences or others experience.

You can also watch the sale section here for what you want. Many times you’ll get deals.

“What did you wish someone told you when you were first starting”

…how deep and expensive the rabbit hole truly is 😁
 
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Prepare to reload. Literally. Doesn't save you money, but allows you to shoot more.

Look at the Phillip Velayo Youtube Series on his upgrades to a Tikka to be competition ready. Definitly a rifle to grow with. Howa's aren't bad either. Range toys: Carbon Fiber may not be the best choice

Scopes. Be ready to take it in the ass on glass. Gets expensive in a hurry. You don't need a $5k scope. SInce I seem to be attracting haters today, that's not to say a 1K is "as good as" a 5k, but until you know what you want--don't splurge.

Ask people if you can try out their stuff. It seems weird, but then you can try it before you buy it. Shooters are a friendly bunch. Lots of people ask to see my ZCO. I am more than happy to oblige.

And for the second time today 6.5 >> 308. The "creedmoors" are the 308 of the 21st century. 6.5 or 6 will get you a long way in this world. Top shooters in PRS use 6 Creed. 308 won't die at 800 like everyone tells you but you need a 200gr bullet to match the 6.5 Creed 140 ballistics. And long range is all about the BC. Que the boomers.

Take a class. A class and a basic rifle >> fancy rifle and no training.




And my personal opinion: Avoid AI like the plague. They've lost their lead. I'll be in my bunker till the shitstorm passes
 
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"Don't get bored with it and sell this rifle because you WILL NEVER own one as accurate as it ever again." :(
 
It may be contrary to some people’s thinking but I wish I would have just bought the best equipment right away instead of playing around with lesser stuff. Like don’t waste money blueprinting a 700 action, just get a custom right away, get the very best glass you can afford, instead of “saving money” only to end up replacing them with good glass.
 
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Echoing what has already been said above, but will add in to keep an open mind about training and start competitions now. As long as you can safely operate your rifle and follow directions, you will be fine at a competition- and people are generally very friendly and helpful.

Being new you have most likely have a small frame of reference of what “good” or what is even possible with a rifle is etc. Going and starting to compete will be like drinking from the water hose of information on what is possible/ what is good etc.
 
Don't waste time and money with factory rifles. Any of them. They are all lacking and definitely do not get a carbon fiber barrel. They are made for light weight hunting. Not what you are doing. Weight is your friend.

Buy a custom action that can take shouldered prefit barrels and put it together at home with an action wrench, barrel vise and a torque wrench. Super easy. This way you can have a .308 and a 6.5 Creedmoor on one rifle by just swapping a barrel. One scope, one stock/chassis, one action and one trigger so you see how that saves you money.

Look in the PX and you can find barreled actions with custom actions in there cheap. Same with stocks/chassis and optics.
 
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Hickswr said:
Don’t get a carbon barrel for a target rifle.
Click to expand...
I can't stress enough how good this advice is. I happen to be a goofy dumbass who's about to sell a barreled action with a carbon barrel I wish I never got.

Take a (good) class ASAP
Get a suppressor

As far as the action, I'll just echo what @Rob01 said. A custom action that takes prefit barrels. And for the love of god don't get it in .308 to start with. Get it in some flavor of 6.5 or 6mm and then as he said, if you want to later you can get a .308 barrel for it.
 
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Lots of great advice here.

Either gather parts or have a rifle built (by MPA or GAP, for example) for you around an action for which there are pre-fit barrels. Nothing you buy over the counter is worth your time.

Go with 6.5 CM so you get ample barrel life and good performance with less recoil than .308. Forget about reloading. Buy factory match ammo unless you get involved in a “group shooting” discipline. Reloading takes all kinds of time and money and you will shoot more if you can order ammo by the case or stop in and buy a box at the local shop.

Take class or two every year. Shooting is a strange world where people will spend big dollars on gear and then insist on being self taught. Starting with good fundamentals and then developing specific skills with an instructor will be worth every cent.

Frank
Modern day rifleman (Phillip Valayo and company)
JTAC for competition training
Andy Slade

All good choices.
 
Take a class. I learned so much and in just 3 days... I feel like it really improved my shooting after some basic fundamental lessons.

baseline day 1 - 100 yards 2 inch target
5 rounds
1000042468.jpg


Day 3 - 8 rounds same gun/distance (one stupid flyer)
1000042469.jpg
 
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VSP968 said:
I wish someone had said “You won’t save any money by reloading”.
Not for twenty years, anyway.
Click to expand...
I got lucky and inherited a buddy's reloading room so I'm 'ahead' on the initial investment portion. The stash of different powders, bullets, etc says I'm 'behind' on that count.

Aah well. You only go round once

M
 
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My tikka hammered. Just ran slow, easy to adjust for and find a node to sit in.

It was in a krg w3 chassis and was very pleasant to shoot. Currently have that chassis in the PX as I'm shooting my new build
 
stanley_white said:
If you can afford it, I would avoid buy once / cry once, as it makes the journey more interesting, and you learn more from it.

-Stan
Click to expand...
The truth is buy once, cry once, get bored or get curious, buy again, cry again, as being satisfied isn't a human trait.

:)

-Stan
 
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lower recoil option will probably give you better results to start, but .308 might teach you more about recoil management.
 
Not gear related, but I wish someone had screamed THE SHOULDER POCKET is where your your collarbone dives back into your chest, under your jaw.

Should be called your chest pocket, chest pad, something that doesn’t have the word “shoulder” in it.

For me, anyway, that tip combined with squaring up to the target gave me the single biggest improvement of my recoil control.
 
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RedDogN8 said:
Take a class. I learned so much and in just 3 days... I feel like it really improved my shooting after some basic fundamental lessons.

baseline day 1 - 100 yards 2 inch target
5 rounds
View attachment 8370454

Day 3 - 8 rounds same gun/distance (one stupid flyer)
View attachment 8370456
Click to expand...
Exactly what he said ^^^

Don’t buy one thing, Nothing. Get into a class that offers loaner rifles. There you will learn what you really need, what you don’t, and also, how to shoot long distance/Precision Rifle.

Without good groundwork, It’s too easy to spend a lot of money on stuff that winds up being dust collectors in your gun safe and closet. That money could have been better spent on good equipment that you can actually use.

Then, when you know what you want (because you’ve actually done some of it) then spend the money.

There are quite a few classes available being held, but two good individuals/teachers are Robert Brantley @RobertB and our own Frank Galli @Lowlight . There are plenty of others, but both of these men are great teachers and well qualified. Robert teaches primarily around the southeast and Frank teaches pretty much everywhere.
 
Last edited:
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Dead Eye Dick said:
Exactly what he said ^^^

Don’t buy one thing, Nothing. Get into a class that offers loaner rifles. There you will learn what you really need, what you don’t, and also, how to shoot long distance/Precision Rifle.

Without good groundwork, It’s too easy to spend a lot of money on stuff that winds up being dust collectors in your gun safe and closet. That money could have been better spent on good equipment that you can actually use.

Then, when you know what you want (because you’ve actually done some of it) then spend the money.

There are quite a few classes available being held, but two good individuals/teachers are Robert Brantley @RobertB and our own Frank Galli @Lowlife. There are plenty of others, but both of these men are great teachers and well qualified. Robert teaches primarily around the southeast and Frank teaches pretty much everywhere.
Click to expand...
@Lowlight is who you're looking for...
 
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I wish I would have started with a 223 instead of 308 and 6.5x47. As a beginner the more you are able to shoot the faster you will get good. Also, the reduced recoil will help you spot your hits and misses so that you can learn.

Don’t waste your money on a factory rifle. Buy an origin so that you have endless Pre-Fit barrels without having to wait on a gunsmith and can be installed at your house easily. Also the origin allows you to buy a cheap bolt head to change from 223 to 308 size cases in the future if you decide you want more. I assure you at the ranges you mentioned the 223 will be more help than hinderance.

The issue with the buy once cry once is how do you know what you truly want/like until you have tried it? Blowing big money doesn’t make sense unless you know that’s what you really want. I have tried all sorts of scopes, actions, calibers, stocks/chassis and still keep trying new things. The best thing to do is go to matches and try other people’s stuff. Everyone will the happy to let you check out their stuff.

Also, don’t wait to start competing. Make sure you can safely handle the gun and have basic dope and a good zero and then go to matches. Tell the match director and the people in your squad that your new and people will help you and it’s practice that you can’t get at most ranges that only allow shooting from a bench. I wish I had started shooting matches years before I finally got the nerve up to go.
 
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You can become quite proficient with whater caliber you choose if you have a consistent practice schedule...even a 308, which has accomplished hits at 3000 yds for better shooters, and yes the 200 plus gr bullets are used.
You will use the same caliber and proven load through out the life of tbe barrel. You will go through many barrels if ya stay with it. The 308 has barrel longevity over other calibers, I ran my 308 win barrels to 8000 rds each...cheaper, to practice alot. If you're not into actual competition.
Even if you accomplish most everything you set out to do,...nothing you ever accomplish in life, will be noteworthy...and no one cares, about what you accomplish, even being 1st or 2nd in competition is only a snap shot in time, and totally not noteworthy.
It's only for your enjoyment, but after years the grueling practice schedule, it gets tiring, and everything you set out to do has been accomplished several times over. It becomes boring and a chore to continue.
What was accomplished?...nothing...except many thousands of dollars spent and countless hours lost, on your learning curve of life...don't become obsessed with it.
 
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45-90 said:
You can become quite proficient with whater caliber you choose if you have a consistent practice schedule...even a 308, which has accomplished hits at 3000 yds for better shooters, and yes the 200 plus gr bullets are used.
You will use the same caliber and proven load through out the life of tbe barrel. You will go through many barrels if ya stay with it. The 308 has barrel longevity over other calibers, I ran my 308 win barrels to 8000 rds each...cheaper, to practice alot. If you're not into actual competition.
Even if you accomplish most everything you set out to do,...nothing you ever accomplish in life, will be noteworthy...and no one cares, about what you accomplish, even being 1sr or 2nd in competition is only a snap shot in time, and totally not noteworthy.
It's only for your enjoyment, but after years the grueling practice schedule, it gets tiring, and everything you set out to do has been accomplished several times over. It becomes boring and a chore to continue.
What was accomplished?...nothing...except many thousands of dollars spent and countless hours lost, on your learning curve of life...don't become obsessed with it.
Click to expand...
 

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45-90 said:
You can become quite proficient with whater caliber you choose if you have a consistent practice schedule...even a 308, which has accomplished hits at 3000 yds for better shooters, and yes the 200 plus gr bullets are used.
You will use the same caliber and proven load through out the life of tbe barrel. You will go through many barrels if ya stay with it. The 308 has barrel longevity over other calibers, I ran my 308 win barrels to 8000 rds each...cheaper, to practice alot. If you're not into actual competition.
Even if you accomplish most everything you set out to do,...nothing you ever accomplish in life, will be noteworthy...and no one cares, about what you accomplish, even being 1st or 2nd in competition is only a snap shot in time, and totally not noteworthy.
It's only for your enjoyment, but after years the grueling practice schedule, it gets tiring, and everything you set out to do has been accomplished several times over. It becomes boring and a chore to continue.
What was accomplished?...nothing...except many thousands of dollars spent and countless hours lost, on your learning curve of life...don't become obsessed with it.
Click to expand...
Wow, I think they have good meds for that now. Just wow…
 
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I'd aim for 4 matches in the first 3 months & not worry about having the right gear. I definitely focused too much on gear instead of just shooting & wasted time getting to my second match. Shoot what you have, learn what you need, then as you realize what you need, buy good shit.

Other than that, bring juice boxes for you squad mates & refer to all the hunting clothing as "cammies". You'll make a lot of friends fast.
 
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All depends on your budget and how often you will shoot it.

If you want to dip your toe in the water before diving in, start out with a factory rifle or good used one, and beat on it for a couple years. Then, if you want to stay in the game, you will have figured out what you want to drop real money on. Then keep the beater as a loaner. I'd go 308 or even 223 to start, just for barrel life, (and plentiful ammo) while you are figuring everything out. Dont worry about reloading right away. Learn to shoot consistently first. (3rd choice 6.5 creed).

To throw another wrench in your thinking, start on a nice 22LR like a CZ457, and keep it as a loaner/trainer when you build your dream rifle.

I have a couple Rem700 5R in 308 that shoot great. But I'm more of an F150XL with steel wheels and vinyl seats kind of guy.

PS If I were shooting comps sporting a polyester jersey with sponsors of ammo and barrels, I'd more likely shoot a 6mm.😁
 
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As a newish shooter, buy a complete rifle. Something like the Seekins hit, tikka tac or Aero solus are very reasonably priced and perform great.
buying parts from different manufacturers and piecing them together can work, but often requires some tweaking to get to 100%.
223, 6.5 cm and 308 are all great choices.
 
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cas6969 said:
"Don't get bored with it and sell this rifle because you WILL NEVER own one as accurate as it ever again." :(
Click to expand...
Great chance to chase the dragon, as they say!

Soon I’ll have a rifle that should match the one hole 3 shot group my first rifle shot. 4 rifles later.
 
Buy a custom action that takes prefits. I would do the CDG if I were you.

Go no “lower” tier than the Leupold MK5, in fact, you couldn’t go wrong just getting the mk5

The MPA pmr with the matrix pro chassis uses the CDG action, I talked a
Good friend into going that route for his first bolt action, and he loves it.

6.5cm or 6cm for sure

also enjoy being broke from here on out lol
 
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Spend your $$$ on training, ammo, and more training - then buy gear.

Also, if you go down the reloading rabbit hole, much of what you will read is BS. Find the bare minimum that needs to be done for the accuracy you want / need, and only do that.
 
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Baron23 said:
Wow, I think they have good meds for that now. Just wow…
Click to expand...
Just the truth...sooner or later ya find out...some, like me, are slow learners...and kept spending tens of thousands of dollars on a hobby of little importance, and no one cares about your accomplishments, except you...really.
So the advice was do not become obsessed, with it, as it becomes very expensive and time consuming...and not worth ,"that" price, plus this type of accomplishment doesn't matter on the larger picture of ones life...been there.
Over doing it is costly.
Example: In the HS football Hall of Fame, cost over time: 5 shoulder surgeries, 2 left knee surgeries and a muscle graft, a lifetime pain, for a snapshot in time, of recognition.
Not worth the price, and noone gives a rats ass...because it's justifiably, unimportant.
Just like our shooting endeavors.
One can share information and have a good time, but getting obsessed with it, and thinking it has some significant life importance, or contribution to mankind, is like worshipping a false God.
 
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45-90 said:
Just the truth...sooner or later ya find out...some, like me, are slow learners...and kept spending tens of thousands of dollars on a hobby of little importance, and no one cares about your accomplishments, except you...really.
So the advice was do not become obsessed, with it, as it becomes very expensive and time consuming...and not worth ,"that" price, plus this type of accomplishment doesn't matter on the larger picture of ones life...been there.
Over doing it is costly.
Example: In the HS football Hall of Fame, cost over time: 5 shoulder surgeries, 2 left knee surgeries and a muscle graft, a lifetime pain, for a snapshot in time, of recognition.
Not worth the price, and noone gives a rats ass...because it's justifiably, unimportant.
Just like our shooting endeavors.
One can share information and have a good time, but getting obsessed with it, and thinking it has some significant life importance, or contribution to mankind, is like worshipping a false God.
Click to expand...
Great post.

Thank you for this.

-Stan
 
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