Muzzle brake and hearing?

Another option would be one of our Magnus RR offerings

SlowMiss6.5 said:

I’m very new to the PRS world and know many people use muzzle brakes to reduce recoil to better spot hits/miss.

However from my research the added level of noise of the muzzle brake (5-15db) can not be combated even when using foam plugs and ear muffs (approx 34db reduction).

Math: bare muzzle +-150db + 10db (avg muzzlebrake) = 160db - 34db (double ear protection) = 124db

I can’t deny the benefit of muzzle brakes from a seeing your misses standpoint but what is everyone doing to protect their hearing? I’m considering using my can in place of getting a suppressor on my comp rifle

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If I could own a can, I would dump the brakes for sure.

Hearing is one negative but I think over time, the effects due to concussion will supersede any hearing loss.

Most guys and gals at the matches I attend wear some form of electronic ear protection. I've got some peltors that work great.

Passive custom-molded ear plugs + electronic ear muffs

The best personal earpro combination I've used is the Opscore AMP with the NFMI earplugs. I can hear everything but it's as much reduction as really good foamies under really good muffs.

When I wear just earplugs, I use the Flents green ones. Best I've tried. But the NFMI with the AMP muffs over the top is next level.

Who says they aren't protecting their hearing? A bunch of arbitrary numbers mean nothing as every single human has different tolerances. Some people need to leave their bubble wrap life.

The direction of conclusion is way more of a saftey issue than raw dB.

I think the concussion from brakes also contributes to potential hearing loss.

I've swapped over to shooting fully suppressed, and it's incredibly more pleasant. I have no problem spotting impacts or quickly getting back on target for PRS matches, but I'm also not a podium contender.

I think TBAC's new offerings a great place to look for someone who wants the competitive edge of a muzzle brake, but protection of a suppressor.

SlowMiss6.5 said:

Didn’t say they are not protecting, just asking if I was missing something and how other were protecting against hearing loss


Oh and can you please help me leave my bubble wrapped life? It’s a crazy thought to want to maintain my hearing…my main hobby is mule deer and elk hunting across the west and I rely upon my hearing I have left to hear a twig break or a bugle… Silly me for wanting to maintain the hearing I have left

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Its not a mathematical equation. Like most things, its nuanced.

You are assuming people are not protecting themselves when in fact, we probably have more hearing protection for the activities we do than anytime in history.

Also, small arms are really not as big as contribution factor to hearing loss as you would think. Its blast/over pressure that really does damage.

I grew up working at gun ranges and trapping. Never wore ears. Spent 10 years in army, rarely wore hearing protection in training or combat. I have almost perfect hearing according to 3 different audiologists.

I have become blast shy as I get older. Shit just rocks you down to the core and makes shooting super unpleasant.

With all that being said, some brakes should be banned from ranges/shooting sports and some moderate the blast very well.

If you haven't yet, check out Yanick's test. He just posted it a few days ago.

DeathBeforeDismount said:

Shit just rocks you down to the core

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That blast/over pressure feeling still gives me a chubby. I must be wheirdo

roostercogburn98 said:

That blast/over pressure feeling still gives me a chubby. I must be wheirdo

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Go through a half a dozen IED's and get back to me.

And that doesn't even touch what the dudes in the Spec ops community go through in a career of flash bangs, breaching charges, Bomb drops, ect.

Mashed taters for brains is the end result.

Sound is a lot like radiation. Time, distance, and shielding. Limit exposure time. Distance yourself from the source as much as possible. Use "shielding" to protect yourself from the source...

For me, that means plugs and muffs when at the range, or at a match setting. I use a braked rifle for matches, but suppressed rifles for non-match use (and when I have a suppressed firearm, I just go with plugs). (The length and weight of the suppressor- combined with the reduced recoil mitigation- make suppressors less than ideal for match use; relative to a good brake.) Move off of the line when not actively shooting- as much as you can. Don't stand under cover while others are shooting under cover.

I keep a pair of ear muffs close at hand when deer hunting. I've never missed an animal due to taking a second to put on ear muffs. You could also consider plugs like in the link below...


Just put it around your neck and it only takes a moment to shift them into place.

Beyond that, don't think that gun fire is the only thing that can ruin your hearing. How loud is an automobile running at 70 mph with the windows down? How loud is a weed eater buzzing next to your head? How about that lawn mower? Hell, spend all day grinding on steel. Our company had a lab full of instrumentation, and to work in the room you had to wear hearing pro (per OSHA) due to the computer fan noise.

DeathBeforeDismount said:

Go through a half a dozen IED's and get back to me.

And that doesn't even touch what the dudes in the Spec ops community go through in a career of flash bangs, breaching charges, Bomb drops, ect.

Mashed taters for brains is the end result.

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I think your my real life hero

kthomas said:

I've swapped over to shooting fully suppressed, and it's incredibly more pleasant. I have no problem spotting impacts or quickly getting back on target for PRS matches, but I'm also not a podium contender.

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This is where I land too. I shoot matches to get better at shooting and hang out with some friends. For me, it's just more fun than practicing on my own. It has made me a way better rifle hunter and most shots at game seem like chip shots. I am a mid pack guy depending on the field, every now and then I have a good weekend or day and slide into the top 10.

I shoot suppressed because it is just a way more tolerable experience, and for me, I am not as wrapped up in the points as some. Muzzle brakes undoubtedly provide an advantage when it comes to spotting hits or misses, especially if you are shooting positional in some capacity and not prone (of which almost all matches are like that now).

I have horrible tinnitus, most of which has come from either shooting or a career in construction. Pretty much did it to myself and wish I would have been more careful with my hearing at a younger age. If it were me, I would err on the side of caution and go suppressed.

One thing to remember though...there will always be guys shooting brakes so have good ear pro all the time. Comfort is key, and if you can forget they are in or you are wearing them, all the better.

SlowMiss6.5 said:

However from my research the added level of noise of the muzzle brake (5-15db) can not be combated even when using foam plugs and ear muffs (approx 34db reduction).

Math: bare muzzle +-150db + 10db (avg muzzlebrake) = 160db - 34db (double ear protection) = 124db

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1. Your math fails to remove the attenuation due to the separation distance between the muzzle and your ear. It follows an inverse square law. This would amount to ~20 dB reduction from the SPL at the end of your brake.
2. You state a composite attenuation of 34 dB for double ear protection. That is also a little low depending on the performance of your muffs and whether the in-ear is a foamy or a custom-fitted passive plug. Not all electronic muffs provide the same attenuation. Most quote a maximum reduction which is pretty meaningless. Proper specification is a filter response as a gunshot does not produce noise at a single frequency point.

I have measured SPL at my ear location to be about 136dB (26" barrel 308 bolt with a brake). Based on the Sordin's frequency curve and the custom plugs, I estimate about 38 dB of further reduction so it puts the total reaching my ear at 98 dB. This makes sense as that sound pressure would be similar to that of an approaching train.

If the SPL were what you say, 124 dB, you would have an immediate ear injury through your muffs. The CDC or NIH threshold for pain or ear injury is 120 dB. I assume you don't have ear pain when you shoot. I certainly don't.

I'd rather shoot with a can but can't own one where I live. So I live with my tinnitus which isn't bad considering all the years I have been pulling triggers

I can only speak for myself on this subject, but I can also add in accounts from pretty much everyone Im friends with that have been shooting this game as long as i have. If you shoot a braked rifle for long enough (even with double ear pro) you are going to experience hearing loss/damage. If not from the sound, then thru bone conduction thru your face. I dont give a shit what the resident "expert on everthing" said above about his perfect hearing. In another thread he clearly admits to having tinnitus, but says thats not "hearing damage". How sever the loss/damage is will obviously vary person to person. If you are burning out 2-3 barrels a season from a braked rifle, year after year, you are going to suffer from it. Everyone I started competing with back in 2010-2011 will tell you the very same thing.

When the PRS first became a "thing", rather than just an idea in Rich's mind, everyone shot a brake or even a bare muzzle. Then everyone began to move over to a suppressor. It got to the point where pretty much everyone shot a suppressor and if didnt, you were often moved to a squad with the the frowned upon brake shooters as nobody else wanted you in their squad. Then it shifted back to muzzle brakes as everyone got off the ground and the targets got smaller.

If you practice with a can on, you will get to where you can spot misses/impacts just as well as with a brake. Especially if you are shooting a mouse fart 6mm.

I worry less about the decibels and more about the concussion from brakes giving mini TBIs every time you pull a trigger.

It only took me one match running a braked rifle (with doubled up ear pro) to realize that the concussion was both healthy, and that was with a measley surefire brake.

I’m 100% suppressed now, though have been tempted to pick up a A419 Maverick or TBAC RR.

Gentleman4561 said:

I worry less about the decibels and more about the concussion from brakes giving mini TBIs every time you pull a trigger.

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Agree 100% - I have been saying that for years.

I'm sitting here reading this thread, with the tinnitus causing pretty awful ringing - and it never stops. I drove very loud John Deere tractors from the time I was in the 8th grade, and that was usually for 12hr days. Wish I'd had foam roll-up plugs back in the mid-1960s. When I bought my first CF rifle in 1968 - a brand new M70 sporter with a 22" bbl in 243 - I shot a lot of prairie dogs, early on w/o ear protection. Then there were the occasional rock concerts of the '70s, flying airplanes for 47 years - only benefitting from noise-cancelling headsets for the past 10 or so years - and all the coincidental racket while working with Dad in our farm shop; it's all cumulative. As bad as all that noise was, I never really had the continuous ringing until the winter of 1977, when I had a bad cold/near pneumonia all winter, and the doc prescribed diamtac extenda tab (sp?) multiple times through that winter. They made the tinnitus more-or-less continuous from that point on.

I shot some PRS-style matches for a few years, switching from brakes to suppressors, and still shoot some LR prone matches, where the NRA doesn't allow suppressors, so I use roll-up plugs with muffs which help a lot, unless we're shooting under a covered firing line. Today, I shoot as many 22RF matches as anything else, and since the vast majority of guys I shoot with have realized long ago that std vel match ammo is the only way to go, and very few shoot 16" bbls, even though there are still a very few guys who think they 'look cool' and continue to shoot them. I wear foam plugs whether shooting the .22s here at home or at a match. But the damage is done, and I doubt there's anything I can do to combat the constant ringing...

DeathBeforeDismount said:

I grew up working at gun ranges and trapping. Never wore ears. Spent 10 years in army, rarely wore hearing protection in training or combat. I have almost perfect hearing according to 3 different audiologists.

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That's surprising. I was not in the military. I did, however, spend four years in the Air Force. The sound of jets and all of my recreational shooting and hunting means now my ears are ringing all the time. I have not had my hearing tested, but I am sure it is not perfect.

flatland1 said:

where the NRA doesn't allow suppressors

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Why

Trevor300wsm said:

I can only speak for myself on this subject, but I can also add in accounts from pretty much everyone Im friends with that have been shooting this game as long as i have. If you shoot a braked rifle for long enough (even with double ear pro) you are going to experience hearing loss/damage. If not from the sound, then thru bone conduction thru your face. I dont give a shit what the resident "expert on everthing" said above about his perfect hearing. In another thread he clearly admits to having tinnitus, but says thats not "hearing damage". How sever the loss/damage is will obviously vary person to person. If you are burning out 2-3 barrels a season from a braked rifle, year after year, you are going to suffer from it. Everyone I started competing with back in 2010-2011 will tell you the very same thing.

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Ha I was just thinking, isn't this the same dude who said he has tinnitus? Like that isn't hearing damage?

I'll add that the OP should consider the demographic he's polling for information on this subject. Getting a "well I just wear muffs or electronic plus" from this demographic doesn't mean much. Men who have been shooting for years probably have some sort of hearing damage and doubly so if they were/are in the military. It may be fine for them because they've already sustained some level of hearing damage and that's their normal.

Not to mention men as a group tend to ignore safety guidelines and don't go to the doctor. That's the perfect storm for hearing damage to pop up.

OP to answer your question, I wear foamies and active muffs when being around any braked or bare muzzle centerfire rifle. I primarily shoot suppressed but even if alone then I'll have foam plugs as a minimum. A lot of times I'll have active muffs on over them. For rimfire I'll have the polymer plugs that can go in and out easily.

Shoot suppressed. Solves everything. I refuse to shoot anything without a can on.

WHAT??
I haven't bought my can yet, but I know which one it will be as I have Surefire muzzle devices on most everything, and I do have their Warden, blast forward device, which helps.

SlowMiss6.5 said:

I’m very new to the PRS world and know many people use muzzle brakes to reduce recoil to better spot hits/miss.

However from my research the added level of noise of the muzzle brake (5-15db) can not be combated even when using foam plugs and ear muffs (approx 34db reduction).

Math: bare muzzle +-150db + 10db (avg muzzlebrake) = 160db - 34db (double ear protection) = 124db

I can’t deny the benefit of muzzle brakes from a seeing your misses standpoint but what is everyone doing to protect their hearing? I’m considering using my can in place of getting a suppressor on my comp rifle

Click to expand...

Been down this road before with a thread I started about this exact subject. There's really no definitive answer other than wearing double ear protection which definitely helps. However, the most effective muzzle brakes are absolutely obnoxious to people next to you.

There are brakes out there that are much kinder to others, but due to the laws of physics, they are not as effective at reducing recoil. If I was a PRS shooter, I'd definitely run a can. I shoot mostly ELR with a heavy magnum rifle (7RM) and a suppressor on a 26" barrel just isn't practical for me.

I carry extra ear protection for people who happen to be next to me so they can double up if they aren't already. But as DBD mentioned, the concussion is still an issue.

EDIT: To answer your question, I personally wear noise cancelling ear buds with a pair of muffs over them. Does a pretty good job for me and eliminates the headaches and fatigue that you can get from running a very effective brake.