Looking for a 12x FFP mil/mil (ideally grid) optic

No experience here but USO has a 3-12X

Just punching 12X FFP Mil into Eurooptic the only thing with a tree reticle in that price range they offer is the Athlon Helos BTR Gen2. While it is a chinese optic, Athlon is known, last I knew, to have great customer service. As for Swampfox, no idea. If you are willing to drop down to 10X, they have a like new Eotech 1-10 for $1,400

There aren't too many options in this mag range.
2-12 Athlon Helos, 2-12 Blackhound Emerge are the only versions I can think of as well as the USO mentioned above.

Used scopes there are the 3-12 Bushnell LRHS/LRTS, there's also an old Sig 2-12x40.

There are more scopes that top out at 10x but again not a huge amount.
A few fixed scopes 10x and 12x SWFA being the obvious ones.

It isn't 12x but it's close, 2.5-15. I have one on my air rifle, it's a decent scope and I like the Athlon reticles. The cross makes a better hunting reticle than the dot IMO. I have both, I like the dot on my Cronus

PA GLX 2.5-10 is close too.

Blackhound Emerge 2-12x is a very solid Japanese optic.
Athlon Helos BTR Gen2 2-12x42 is probably the bang-for-the-buck champ.
SwampFox Warhawk 2-10x44 with Recce reticle is a really good choice if you do plan to dial. A little heavy, but the scope is growing on me.
PA GLx 2.5-10x44 is a good option if weight is critical.

koshkin said:

Blackhound Emerge 2-12x is a very solid Japanese optic.
Athlon Helos BTR Gen2 2-12x42 is probably the bang-for-the-buck champ.
SwampFox Warhawk 2-10x44 with Recce reticle is a really good choice if you do plan to dial. A little heavy, but the scope is growing on me.
PA GLx 2.5-10x44 is a good option if weight is critical.

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On your latest live stream you mentioned about a new MVPO comparison in the works.

Itd be interested to see how these newer options compare with the older gen scopes that have all but disappeared.
PST Gen1, XTR2, Sig 2-12, Bushnell LRHS.

Would love to see the USO B10/FDN 10 thrown in, almost never hear about that scope.

beetroot said:

On your latest live stream you mentioned about a new MVPO comparison in the works.

Itd be interested to see how these newer options compare with the older gen scopes that have all but disappeared.
PST Gen1, XTR2, Sig 2-12, Bushnell LRHS.

Would love to see the USO B10/FDN 10 thrown in, almost never hear about that scope.

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The MPVO comparison will be done differently than I normally do it. Since there just aren't enough scopes of this configuration for a true side-by-side, I will do more of an "across the price ranges" discussion.
I am very well familiar with Athlon Helos Gen2 2-12x42 and PA GLx 2.5-10x44. I will be looking very carefully at the Blackhound Emerge 2-12x44, SwampFox Warhorse 2-10x44, Tract 2.5-15x44 and March 1.5-15x42 in order to cover essentially the entire price spectrum.
The defining characteristic for these scopes is having low enough magnification to work seamlessly with clip-on. 2.5x on the low end is about as high as I want to go with that, although an unusually wide FOV 3-15x would likely do OK as well.
I think of all of these as a sub-set of crossover devices to use on hunting ARs that could be used at night on pigs or during the day on other game. Or as a scope for my 8.6Blackout Fix that also needs to satisfy both roles.

That will al come together when the March comes back here after reticle replacement.

ILya

I have this. Good glass.

koshkin said:

The MPVO comparison will be done differently than I normally do it. Since there just aren't enough scopes of this configuration for a true side-by-side, I will do more of an "across the price ranges" discussion.
I am very well familiar with Athlon Helos Gen2 2-12x42 and PA GLx 2.5-10x44. I will be looking very carefully at the Blackhound Emerge 2-12x44, SwampFox Warhorse 2-10x44, Tract 2.5-15x44 and March 1.5-15x42 in order to cover essentially the entire price spectrum.
The defining characteristic for these scopes is having low enough magnification to work seamlessly with clip-on. 2.5x on the low end is about as high as I want to go with that, although an unusually wide FOV 3-15x would likely do OK as well.
I think of all of these as a sub-set of crossover devices to use on hunting ARs that could be used at night on pigs or during the day on other game. Or as a scope for my 8.6Blackout Fix that also needs to satisfy both roles.

That will al come together when the March comes back here after reticle replacement.

ILya

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Funny you should say this. I was just looking at the new Burris Gen II thermal clip on. Sounds like maybe I should put it in front of my 1-8×24, not my 3.3-18x50?

Birddog6424 said:

Funny you should say this. I was just looking at the new Burris Gen II thermal clip on. Sounds like maybe I should put it in front of my 1-8×24, not my 3.3-18x50?

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Which version do you have? If it is the 35mm, then the 1-8x will definitely play better with it. The 3.3-18x50 will work OK with the 50mm. It will constrict the FOV a little, but it is workable.

I sorta mention the specific FOVs here: https://darklordofoptics.locals.com/post/4365754/mpvo-vs-crossover

koshkin said:

Which version do you have? If it is the 35mm, then the 1-8x will definitely play better with it. The 3.3-18x50 will work OK with the 50mm. It will constrict the FOV a little, but it is workable.

I sorta mention the specific FOVs here: https://darklordofoptics.locals.com/post/4365754/mpvo-vs-crossover

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Thanks for that link Ilya. That's great information!

I have a couple of the Japanese built 8x XTRII with the 34mm tube. I've been running them on 3 Gun rifles. But may mix it up on a good wolf/varmints rifle with the clip on.

I have a Bushnell LRTSi 3-12 that is AWESOME. I wish I had more of them. Light weight, GAP style grid reticle, illuminated, FFP, simple zero stop, locking windage. It’s a total package for me on my SIG Cross 6.5 cm . Unfortunately its been discontinue . YMMV….


Best,

Will

koshkin said:

The MPVO comparison will be done differently than I normally do it. Since there just aren't enough scopes of this configuration for a true side-by-side, I will do more of an "across the price ranges" discussion.
I am very well familiar with Athlon Helos Gen2 2-12x42 and PA GLx 2.5-10x44. I will be looking very carefully at the Blackhound Emerge 2-12x44, SwampFox Warhorse 2-10x44, Tract 2.5-15x44 and March 1.5-15x42 in order to cover essentially the entire price spectrum.
The defining characteristic for these scopes is having low enough magnification to work seamlessly with clip-on. 2.5x on the low end is about as high as I want to go with that, although an unusually wide FOV 3-15x would likely do OK as well.
I think of all of these as a sub-set of crossover devices to use on hunting ARs that could be used at night on pigs or during the day on other game. Or as a scope for my 8.6Blackout Fix that also needs to satisfy both roles.

That will al come together when the March comes back here after reticle replacement.

ILya

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Did you ever get a look at the tract toric 2.5-15x44? How did that scope stack up?

Tikkaguy said:

Did you ever get a look at the tract toric 2.5-15x44? How did that scope stack up?

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Pretty well. I like it. Good scope for the money.