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Federal red flag / disarmament center

BurtG

BurtG

GOLDEN TICKET HOLDER
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Banned !
Minuteman
    • Nov 9, 2022
    4,447
    11,148
    Northeast
    Did we do this yet ?

    This is what happens when you fags let the nose under the tent with “just gun bans for felons” which turned into 10000 “prohibiting offenses “ and now were at “we don’t like what you said no guns for you”




    The launch of the National Extreme Risk Protection Order Resource Center will provide our partners across the country with valuable resources to keep firearms out of the hands of individuals who pose a threat to themselves or others,” said Attorney General Merrick B. Garland. “The establishment of the Center is the latest example of the Justice Department’s work to use every tool provided by the landmark Bipartisan Safer Communities Act to protect communities from gun violence.”

    ERPO laws, which are modeled off domestic violence protection orders, create a civil process allowing law enforcement, family members (in most states), and medical professionals or other groups (in some states) to petition a court to temporarily prohibit someone at risk of harming themselves or others from purchasing and possessing firearms for the duration of the order.
     
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    2A1882BB-397E-407B-83FC-76227A412DCA.jpeg
     
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    Franko said:
    I think the ideal response would be for the Republicans to drag out the next round of budgeting and then slip in the removal of the entire NFA at the 11th hour. After all, turnabout is fair play...
    Click to expand...
    Ummm, you misspelled republicants.
    Uniparty, other side of the same coin, the other wing of the same bird, party of hopium,......
     
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    Franko said:
    I think the ideal response would be for the Republicans to drag out the next round of budgeting and then slip in the removal of the entire NFA at the 11th hour. After all, turnabout is fair play...
    Click to expand...
    Republicans have not been republicans in decades.

    They are not our friends. We have no friends.

    Reagan banned full auto. Trump banned bump stocks.
     
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    This won't get abused. The courts will be there to ensure that no one's constitutional rights are abused. You know, the same courts that have allowed the government to procecute Jan 6 protesters without turning over all the evidence. The same courts that are railroading Trump. The same courts that screw over men in divorce and child custody/ support cases.......
    Ohh, then there's that pesky patriot act. It's not being abused either
     
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    DarnYankeeUSMC said:
    This won't get abused. The courts will be there to ensure that no one's constitutional rights are abused. You know, the same courts that have allowed the government to procecute Jan 6 protesters without turning over all the evidence. The same courts that are railroading Trump. The same courts that screw over men in divorce and child custody/ support cases.......
    Ohh, then there's that pesky patriot act. It's not being abused either
    Click to expand...
    What the heck man, slow it down, only so much truth can be told on Sunday’s.
     
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    Politicians can pass all the feelgood laws they want about disarming America, but the reality is they can't achieve their endgame. There are too many guns, too much ammunition, and tens of millions of owners who will refuse to comply. Illinois is a perfect example where mandatory registration has totally failed.

    Enforcement/confiscation of guns will lead to armed confrontations and federal agents will go back to their loved ones in caskets. There aren't anywhere near the number of feds to take on such a monumental task. Look what blue city laws have done to police enforcement. Do you think wives want to be widows raising children because their fed husband got ventilated attempting to take away guns?

    The courts have been destroying left wing gun laws all over America. Red flag laws won't stand up if/when they make it to SCOTUS.
     
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    I've addressed this topic a few times on here, but I believe it bears mention again.

    The legal mechanism for protecting the public and individuals from the crazy mass shooting type has been in place for decades. Simply disarming them is both insufficient and foolish, because we all know if someone wants to do harm while they're in the public space, they're going to find the means and do it. You don't remove the means from the person, you remove the person from the public. If they're actively homicidal or suicidal, that person needs to be under watch and treatment.

    My wife works in mental health. She's licensed and experienced in dealing with those in crisis. Through the company she works for, she's on call for the public and agencies to contact in the event someone is in trouble or going to be trouble. Hospitals and law enforcement reach out when they have someone they feel is a danger, she performs a medical assessment, and if she finds they're a threat she writes an order that effectively detains that individual in medical custody for protection and treatment. She takes these orders very seriously, and has had to tell the reporters "It's not illegal to be crazy, they're no threat to themselves or others, I'm not signing the order." She also can see through people who are lying, knowing what to say to not get sent to residential treatment, when evidence or credible reports show otherwise. The individuals go into treatment where both they and the public are kept safe, they are continuously evaluated throughout, and they're quickly released when they are no longer a threat to themselves or others. They keep their rights to challenge the accusations, retain legal representation, and judicial review over the entire process.

    The states have the laws that back these orders, and also have a system giving the individuals a means of countering them through the judicial system, that protects both the public and protects the person's right to due process. The person themself is evaluated, not just someone making a report, in order to start the process. If there's a report of someone that's a threat, law enforcement is sent out to find them and bring them for evaluation, not just a blind or one sided judicial order. Every single state has this on the books and in use every single day, there were no gaps in the laws, and when you look at all these mass shootings that have happened they could have been prevented if someone had just made the report beforehand.

    This is the main difference between "Red Flag" laws and the current system, Red Flag is one sided and the accused has no say in the matter before it's done (no due process), as well as Red Flag only temporarily removes one means of violence versus sending the actual person to treatment. It's the most half assed means of protecting the public, right up there with "Gun Free Zones". Red Flag really is nothing more than a means of disarming people without reason or due process, cut and dry, and has absolutely nothing to do with public safety.

    If someone is in crisis enough to do harm, they're in crisis enough to be taken into protective custody and get the treatment they need.
     
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    Redmanss said:
    If someone is in crisis enough to do harm, they're in crisis enough to be taken into protective custody and get the treatment they need.
    Click to expand...

    Knives and clubs are used to kill more people than guns. But facts don't fit the narrative and the end goal. So they want to remove the gun and not the problem. The problem still has the weapons of choice to cause mayhem.
    The treatment they need is to be removed from society.
     
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    Just so I understand correctly: is the national red flag law actually something that is now in place, or something being pitched and not yet passed? I still can find links online of which states have them and which dont.
     
    Animal357 said:
    Republicans have not been republicans in decades.

    They are not our friends. We have no friends.

    Reagan banned full auto. Trump banned bump stocks.
    Click to expand...
    The Congressman who inserted the SBR infringements into the NFA in 1934 was literally a sodomite/faggot Republican Nazi sympathizer and later spy for Hitler during WWII. He was arrested for sodomy in Arlington in 1924 engaged in homosexual acts with a Labor Dept employee rocking the shocks of a parked car, where a cop walked up on them and said, “What in the hell is going on here boys?"

    His Congressmen buddies came to his aid in court for his first appearance telling the judge what a great and upstanding man of integrity and honor he was, so the judge immediately dropped the charges.

    On Day 1, morning 1 of the 1934 hearings, he asked the AG about rifles because he was worried about deer hunters back in Minnesota. The AG told him there is no mention of rifles in the NFA, so no need to be concerned about them.

    He insisted on running his mouth, saying, “Knowing what I know about firearms, it seems to me that if we increased the barrel length to 18” and added rifles to shotguns, that would make the legislation stronger."

    Harold Knutson:

    iu


    He makes a great case for asking people, “Did you know we still have legislation on the books that was inserted by Republican Hitler sympathizers who betrayed the United States before and during WWII?"
     
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    One challenge with reporting Federal agents is that they have their personal info backlisted, so queries are protected from public searches and background checks. Even local LE face intimidation and threats from family members of convicts, so there is an understandable set of reasons why they have it, even though everyone other than US Marshals has no mention in the Constitution.

    A common thing that the Federal agencies do to whistle-blowers is pull their backlisting, which is what they did to ATF agent Dobyns. Mafia doesn’t like “rats" within its ranks. By the way, look at the last names of ATF RAICs and ASACs. They’re literally Mafia through-and-through.

    They love being mid and senior management in a gestapo built for them by their Mob ancestors, where the game is to see how many crimes you can commit and get away with for sport, in the chance they actually even show up for work.

    That’s one of the biggest complaints within ATF from whistleblowers: nepotism, no-show ASACs and supervisors, open sexual harassment against female employees, high levels of EO violations, never any consequences except for whistleblowers. A lot of their firearms seizures are just because the ASAC or RAIC saw something in someone’s collection they want, simple as that.

    If the RAIC or ASAC doesn’t want it, the lower supervisors can wrestle among themselves for the seized items. They don’t return them either way, even if there is no prosecution. Who is going to make them give the property back? The DOJ?

    They pride themselves in being above the law because they are criminals. No really, this is how it works.

    You know what they did to Dobyns? Here’s a guy who took a round through his lung on his first UC job in ATF doing some kind of drugs and guns buy gone-wrong, then went straight back into UC work in Chicago instead of taking medical retirement or a desk job.

    He then gets run over with his head impacting the windshield of the perpetrator’s vehicle as he fires into the guy, with both of his knees blown out, head injury, goes back to work doing UC. Started a fake motorcycle club where they were targeting the Hell’s Angles (Mafia doesn’t like competition in interstate trafficking, so they have always used LE to rub-out the margins, but keep enough of them in-business to justify their existence). He does this type of work for 27 years in ATF, and they burned down his house with his family inside, who barely escaped with smoke inhalation injuries.

    They then tell him they’re going to film his wife and kids being gang-raped by Cartel assassins, and pin the arson and murder on him.

    Threats against Dobyns included threats to kill him and his family, gang-rape his wife, and infect Dobyns with the HIV virus.

    Dobyns' house also was burned down in 2008 with his wife and children sleeping inside -- his family escaped unharmed. In the case, Dobyns said the ATF accused him of starting the fire. The arsonist was never caught.

    "It is evident that ATF officials failed to follow through in implementing the steps that were supposed to minimize the risks that might affect Agent Dobyns and his family. In the court's view, this represented another instance in which ATF violated the covenant of good faith and fair dealing," Allegra wrote in his opinion.

    A 2007 settlement, reached after Dobyns first claimed the agency improperly investigated and protected his family against threats, awarded him $373,000.

    But Dobyns alleged a "breach of good faith," claiming the agency continued to retaliate against him. Allegra, in his opinion, awarded Dobyns $173,000 in damages.
    Click to expand...

    That’s how they treat “their own”.

    These are not Americans we are dealing with. These are a cancer enemy within who weaseled their way into the US before Prohibition. They don’t fear God or respect our laws. They are made men who weren’t smart enough to roll with the big family bosses, but were loyal enough to be tossed no-show jobs in government.

    It’s important to understand who these enemies of the United States are, and how they operate.
     
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    LRRPF52 said:
    One challenge with reporting Federal agents is that they have their personal info backlisted, so queries are protected from public searches and background checks. Even local LE face intimidation and threats from family members of convicts, so there is an understandable set of reasons why they have it, even though everyone other than US Marshals has no mention in the Constitution.

    A common thing that the Federal agencies do to whistle-blowers is pull their backlisting, which is what they did to ATF agent Dobyns. Mafia doesn’t like “rats" within its ranks. By the way, look at the last names of ATF RAICs and ASACs. They’re literally Mafia through-and-through.

    They love being mid and senior management in a gestapo built for them by their Mob ancestors, where the game is to see how many crimes you can commit and get away with for sport, in the chance they actually even show up for work.

    That’s one of the biggest complaints within ATF from whistleblowers: nepotism, no-show ASACs and supervisors, open sexual harassment against female employees, high levels of EO violations, never any consequences except for whistleblowers. A lot of their firearms seizures are just because the ASAC or RAIC saw something in someone’s collection they want, simple as that.

    If the RAIC or ASAC doesn’t want it, the lower supervisors can wrestle among themselves for the seized items. They don’t return them either way, even if there is no prosecution. Who is going to make them give the property back? The DOJ?

    They pride themselves in being above the law because they are criminals. No really, this is how it works.

    You know what they did to Dobyns? Here’s a guy who took a round through his lung on his first UC job in ATF doing some kind of drugs and guns buy gone-wrong, then went straight back into UC work in Chicago instead of taking medical retirement or a desk job.

    He then gets run over with his head impacting the windshield of the perpetrator’s vehicle as he fires into the guy, with both of his knees blown out, head injury, goes back to work doing UC. Started a fake motorcycle club where they were targeting the Hell’s Angles (Mafia doesn’t like competition in interstate trafficking, so they have always used LE to rub-out the margins, but keep enough of them in-business to justify their existence). He does this type of work for 27 years in ATF, and they burned down his house with his family inside, who barely escaped with smoke inhalation injuries.

    They then tell him they’re going to film his wife and kids being gang-raped by Cartel assassins, and pin the arson and murder on him.



    That’s how they treat “their own”.

    These are not Americans we are dealing with. These are a cancer enemy within who weaseled their way into the US before Prohibition. They don’t fear God or respect our laws. They are made men who weren’t smart enough to roll with the big family bosses, but were loyal enough to be tossed no-show jobs in government.

    It’s important to understand who these enemies of the United States are, and how they operate.
    Click to expand...
    Quoted so everyone can read it again

    Including the back the blue types.

    Including the people who arm and train these people. Whores the lot of them
     
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    BurtG said:
    Quoted so everyone can read it again

    Including the back the blue types.

    Including the people who arm and train these people. Whores the lot of them
    Click to expand...
    There’s a big difference between supporting local LE and backing the yellow/blue GayTF.

    It’s a fine line that is easy to fall over in either direction.

    I don’t think most ATF agents, who largely come from local LE, understood how corrupt that agency is and where it came from.

    Their spouses don’t want to lose Federal benefits and GS pay schedule either once they get a taste, although the work has convinced some to leave and go back to local LE.

    When talking with local LEOs, they historically have worked with ATF to get access to Federal assets that they don’t normally have due to constrained budgets when going after gangs.

    If we kept more money locally instead of funding the unconstitutional DOJ and its 115,000 employee force, maybe we would have the assets necessary for local LE to prosecute hardened criminals at the local level.

    One thing is for sure. The Founders would not recognize this other than the type of totalitarian state they lived under with the King and his henchmen.

    AG’s office was supposed to be a part-time legal advisor to Congress, not a General over 40 secret police and administrative agencies who have zero Constitutional mention or enumerated powers. Stalin, Beria, and Heinrich Müller would blush at the sight of the DOJ and its $39.4 Billion budget. That would be $90.57 million for each of the 435 Congressional Districts if we kept the money at the States where it belongs.

    iu
     
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    Covid mandates definitely showed everyone what level of tyranny cowards were willing to enforce just by simply “following orders”.

    The real problem underlying that is conformity training in public school.

    If you want to continue cowardice of conformity, continue sending your kids to school.

    The people who stood on principle throughout that BS, many of whom lost their jobs, are the true heroes.
     
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    Redmanss said:
    I've addressed this topic a few times on here, but I believe it bears mention again.

    The legal mechanism for protecting the public and individuals from the crazy mass shooting type has been in place for decades. Simply disarming them is both insufficient and foolish, because we all know if someone wants to do harm while they're in the public space, they're going to find the means and do it. You don't remove the means from the person, you remove the person from the public. If they're actively homicidal or suicidal, that person needs to be under watch and treatment.

    My wife works in mental health. She's licensed and experienced in dealing with those in crisis. Through the company she works for, she's on call for the public and agencies to contact in the event someone is in trouble or going to be trouble. Hospitals and law enforcement reach out when they have someone they feel is a danger, she performs a medical assessment, and if she finds they're a threat she writes an order that effectively detains that individual in medical custody for protection and treatment. She takes these orders very seriously, and has had to tell the reporters "It's not illegal to be crazy, they're no threat to themselves or others, I'm not signing the order." She also can see through people who are lying, knowing what to say to not get sent to residential treatment, when evidence or credible reports show otherwise. The individuals go into treatment where both they and the public are kept safe, they are continuously evaluated throughout, and they're quickly released when they are no longer a threat to themselves or others. They keep their rights to challenge the accusations, retain legal representation, and judicial review over the entire process.

    The states have the laws that back these orders, and also have a system giving the individuals a means of countering them through the judicial system, that protects both the public and protects the person's right to due process. The person themself is evaluated, not just someone making a report, in order to start the process. If there's a report of someone that's a threat, law enforcement is sent out to find them and bring them for evaluation, not just a blind or one sided judicial order. Every single state has this on the books and in use every single day, there were no gaps in the laws, and when you look at all these mass shootings that have happened they could have been prevented if someone had just made the report beforehand.

    This is the main difference between "Red Flag" laws and the current system, Red Flag is one sided and the accused has no say in the matter before it's done (no due process), as well as Red Flag only temporarily removes one means of violence versus sending the actual person to treatment. It's the most half assed means of protecting the public, right up there with "Gun Free Zones". Red Flag really is nothing more than a means of disarming people without reason or due process, cut and dry, and has absolutely nothing to do with public safety.

    If someone is in crisis enough to do harm, they're in crisis enough to be taken into protective custody and get the treatment they need.
    Click to expand...

    I'm so glad you think the system of locking folks up for profit that your wife works in is so great.
    I'm guessing you've never seen how horribly it gets abused to destroy the lives of people on the whims of evil judges, prosecutors and god complex doctors who hate anyone that won't bow down and worship them.

    Rights and processes HA!
    Try that when your life is destroyed you have no money, you are being force fed drugs so you can't think and the "hospital" is trying to make bank keeping you there as long as possible.

    There are countless stories of that being done to folks right up until the money ran out and then oh, I guess we should let you go.
     
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    W54/XM-388 said:
    I'm so glad you think the system of locking folks up for profit that your wife works in is so great.
    I'm guessing you've never seen how horribly it gets abused to destroy the lives of people on the whims of evil judges, prosecutors and god complex doctors who hate anyone that won't bow down and worship them.

    Rights and processes HA!
    Try that when your life is destroyed you have no money, you are being force fed drugs so you can't think and the "hospital" is trying to make bank keeping you there as long as possible.

    There are countless stories of that being done to folks right up until the money ran out and then oh, I guess we should let you go.
    Click to expand...

    And you have clearly not had much interaction with the truly deranged and violent mentally ill.

    I have.
    20+ yrs of it.
    You have seen nothing until a homicidal schizophrenic is hellbent to kill.
    12+ aggressive men, tasers (yes 2 of them) and loads of drugs.

    The issues of abuse do occur. Worse actually back when we had more institutionalized folks.
    And much lower than the rate of an M1 and court ordered treatment helps people get back on top.
     
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    W54/XM-388 said:
    I'm so glad you think the system of locking folks up for profit that your wife works in is so great.
    I'm guessing you've never seen how horribly it gets abused to destroy the lives of people on the whims of evil judges, prosecutors and god complex doctors who hate anyone that won't bow down and worship them.

    Rights and processes HA!
    Try that when your life is destroyed you have no money, you are being force fed drugs so you can't think and the "hospital" is trying to make bank keeping you there as long as possible.

    There are countless stories of that being done to folks right up until the money ran out and then oh, I guess we should let you go.
    Click to expand...
    Yep, I completely agree there's a lot of problems in the mental health system, and so does my wife. She's nothing but the first line in it, does zero residential, doesn't believe in pilling people into "sanity", but does believe in taking someone homicidal or suicidal off the streets for treatment. I may differ in opinion of involuntarily taking suicidal people off the streets, I fully believe in self demise being an option in a free society, just as I believe in letting the ODs do what they wanted and continue OD'ing without interference.

    But if someone is having homicidal ideations, the literal voices in their head telling them to kill, there needs to be an option other than charging them with criminal intent. Those reports more often than not get a hard pass by the DA to file charges because they care only about conviction percentages and are fucking lazy.

    Those people are a danger to society, but most often not a permanent danger if they get treatment. They often don't know they're fucking crazy, but they are. Without another avenue to get them out of the public and into treatment, they're going to kill someone. That's not victimless, that's a danger to society. I'm not saying it's perfect, no judicial system is or ever has been, but there is a process for protection of the accused through legal representation and a jury of peers based judicial system. If you can think of a better process, I'd love to hear it, but one thing I'm not going to be convinced of is letting homicidal crazies go free unimpeded.

    But yeah, the suicidal people, I totally agree to let them do their thing if they want to and they shouldn't be forced into a hospital against their will, most often that happens on the tax payer dime at that. You can't murder yourself by committing suicide any more than you can rape yourself by masturbating, it's the definition of victimless when the only person dying is the one that wants to die and has the willpower to do it. The families and friends are emotional victims, absolutely, but not in the legal sense and therefore deserve no protection by the state through forced restraint of the committer.
     
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