I seem to remember the transition to 300 Win Mag began around 94-95. I was surprised when I read Carl Kovalchik was shooting a 300 vice 7mm, and I believe he won a bunch of things at Perry 1999-ish.
Thanks again for chasing all that down, Frank and thanks to @redneckbmxer24 as well...I didn't know Schneider barrels were used, always thought they were Lilja or Kreiger...Appreciate all the information shared thus far...Wonder if the 300s had a 10 twist or 11 and what round they used (prob A191 but just a guess).To maybe fill in a few blanks for what J-huskey has said and what I found out….
Later, Frank
Thanks again for chasing all that down, Frank and thanks to @redneckbmxer24 as well...I didn't know Schneider barrels were used, always thought they were Lilja or Kreiger...Appreciate all the information shared thus far...Wonder if the 300s had a 10 twist or 11 and what round they used (prob A191 but just a guess).
My guess is 10 twist. No Krieger wasn't making them any tubes at that time. Krieger didn't go full time with the barrel shop until 1986. I could be wrong. His first year as a business was 1982 but I don't think it was full time. When he started it was still called Krieger manufacturing and not Krieger Barrels.Thanks again for chasing all that down, Frank and thanks to @redneckbmxer24 as well...I didn't know Schneider barrels were used, always thought they were Lilja or Kreiger...Appreciate all the information shared thus far...Wonder if the 300s had a 10 twist or 11 and what round they used (prob A191 but just a guess).
Honestly guys you need to slow down a little and verify something like this before posting. Gary is alive and well and, I'm sure, enjoying his retirement.Gary is dead, and it's sold, don't remember who bought it. The transition was rough. Don't know what the service is now.
My guy said the first barrels were hart. Waiting on a current SS gunsmith to respond.
I came in here expecting some crazy build up.
Turns out, every dude that was building "crazy accurate sniper rifles" was just putting a Remington 700 into a McMillan stock with a custom barrel from whichever good smith had time to do it.
Clone builds must not be for me, as I can't fathom the expense to use old out dated scopes or barrels that you can't get anymore.
Just seems like copying a copy of someone else's copy would get old after awhile.
Better than that a person can call Gary and talk about it at length. Christie said his phone number in Payson still works.Gary isn't dead and Tubb doesn't own it.
Like I said before, I'd bet you can call Schneider barrels and order a spec blank.
Two or three years ago, I confirmed with Hart that they produced the barrels for the early 7mm tubes. When I enquired about specs, I received the following info: "For the twist rate on those 7mm, they used a 9" twist (to stabilize 168 grains) the contour was a Sniper taper which is 1.200 x .900 @ 26" or 24" finish." I also learned that Larry Willis of Innovative Technologies developed a Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die that the USSS purchased for the early 7mm Rem. Mags. FWIW...David Tubb’s daughter and son in law, who is a former navy seal, are the new owners.
Frank do you happen to know if the bullets were made with powdered tungsten. I had heard that probably 20 or more years ago. Innovative in that the bullet wouldn't leave the body of the bad guy, which could come in handy when shooting into crowds. I also heard those that this type of bullet couldn't be produced in anything smaller than .30 cal.Your history lesson for the day…. The guy that was there when the JAR rifles were being used etc.. is still at SS. I talked to him an hour ago. He is still doing gun work there and guess who’s barrels he is using? I didn’t want to bug him with some of these questions and didn’t want to cold call him about this but we got in touch. He said anytime give him a call.
The contour was just a normal heavy varmint contour. They didn’t call out anything special per se. So depending on the barrel supplier over time you might see some variations in the HV contour but that’s all it is.
All 7mag barrels were 1-9 twist.
All 300wm barrels were 1-10 twist.
The 7mag conversion to 300wm was in the 2000-2001 time frame. So at the start of 2000 there where still 7mags in service but by 2001 there where no more 7mags in service.
The only reason and again the only reason for the change to the 300wm and he told me… we were perfectly fine with the 7mag and the performance. The change was due to the one range they shot at and the concern was over the lead bullets and the effect on the wildlife/preserve etc…. and they did do testing on 30cal bullets that had a tungsten core projectile that where already being made. They tested them and they shot good out to 600 yards and change. He said past 600 they got a little funny but it filled the role. They asked about getting tungsten projectiles for the 7mm but they were told they can do it but it would take over a year to get them made. So that was the only reason for the switch from the 7mm to the 300wm.
He said back in 2000 the cost for a single round with the tungsten bullet was $4.15 per round but they were not shooting a 100k rounds a year so no budget issues. Then go figure about a year or two later the range said…well the tungsten probably isn’t any better vs the lead so you can shoot what you want. That was funny shit when I heard that! He said what was cool about the tungsten bullets was they could vary how they were made. They could shoot a coyote at 75 yards with the bullet made to be more frangible and it wouldn’t go completely thru. Now think of that application for a SS sniper shooting in the town. Not worried as much about what’s behind the target but they could get the bullets made so they could take out an elk at 1300 yards as well.
All of the original barrels as I understand it were Harts. So he asked Ray Steele why are we buying Harts for the JAR rifles and Schneider for the match rifles? So he ran a test… the Schneiders at the time out shot the Harts. So he said done…we are not buying barrels from two different makers and everything was changed to Schneider. End of that story.
So hopefully that helps you guys fill in the blanks on what was used and the time frame on the 7mags vs the 300wm.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Don't know if it was made with powdered tungsten. All I know offhand was it was a tungsten core. If I recall the conversation correctly it was Lost River Ballistics that made the bullets. LRB told them they could make them in 7mm but it would take a Year+ to get the first ones made.Frank do you happen to know if the bullets were made with powdered tungsten. I had heard that probably 20 or more years ago. Innovative in that the bullet wouldn't leave the body of the bad guy, which could come in handy when shooting into crowds. I also heard those that this type of bullet couldn't be produced in anything smaller than .30 cal.
LRB made copper solids. You're referring to PRL. I'd heard Carl was playing with PRL's...but didn't know the backstory. PRL made bullets down to 22 caliber. They created some buzz in the highpower world with their 224 87gr with the form factor of a 69 sierra.Don't know if it was made with powdered tungsten. All I know offhand was it was a tungsten core. If I recall the conversation correctly it was Lost River Ballistics that made the bullets. LRB told them they could make them in 7mm but it would take a Year+ to get the first ones made.
Offhand I'm not sure on PRL (Powell River Labs) and if they ever supplied any bullets etc...El Rey is alive and well too!
LRB made copper solids. You're referring to PRL. I'd heard Carl was playing with PRL's...but didn't know the backstory. PRL made bullets down to 22 caliber. They created some buzz in the highpower world with their 224 87gr with the form factor of a 69 sierra.
I got it straight from the SS gunsmith/builder who was there thru the whole thing. He retires this year. Best I can tell you and where the info came from.They’re both niche companies that used novel technologies. I can see how they could be confused….but having spoken at length with the LRB folks I feel pretty confident that tungsten core (sintered, powdered or solid) was not their tech.
depends on which era of the JAR, like anything else.
I have read, but can't confirm that back in the day 20-30 years ago they were McMillan stocked remington long actions, likely with Leupold glass.
In this video, you can see that they are remingtons in Accuracy International Chassis with S&B scopes.