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To those who say lower cost guns aren't "accurate"..

Mcrider55

Mcrider55

Banhammer
Banned !
Minuteman
Mar 13, 2024
198
364
Great State of Arkansas
I joined this forum less than a month ago, seeking information & some advice about expanding my tactical gun skills to include longer distance precision shooting. Longest shots would probably be less than 500 yards.

I have a couple of decades of practicing tactical shooting skills behind me, all AR based.

To those who say a lower cost rifle isn't accurate, I say BULLSHIT.

Yesterday, my brother & I were shooting 100 yard targets. I normally shoot at poker chips with a contrasting yard dot in the center for contrast. Chips are 1.5" in diameter, yard dots are .75 diameter. Hitting the chip isn't difficult, hitting center of dot is.

He took an unspent 12 gauge shotgun shell he found laid it atop the 2 Inch foam archery target we use to staple targets to. The primer end pointed at me. He placed a red target dot over the primer so I could see it. The front of the shell was resting against a wood backstop people staple their targets to. My foam backstop rested against it..

1 shot, and I hit the shells primer, igniting the shell, the powder burns are evident. Examine the board and you can see exactly where the shell was laying when hit. The shotgun blast penetrated the plywood backing.

We found the remnant of the shell & the red paper dot..

Now you tell me again how you need a high dollar gun with yada yada yada aftermarket parts to be accurate.

I did this with my .223 Savage Axis II Precision and a Vortex Viper Venom scope I bought less that a month ago shooting my reload of a ArmorAlly 55gr fmg, 24 grains of Alliant 1200r with a CCI 450 primer and a range scavenged case. Twist on rifle is 1:7. Hardly considered an accurate load by many.

So when people ASK for opinions on how to get started, dump the bullshit about needing a gun way outside their budgets, and offer real advice. Don't do describe your "dream gun" you don't own, actually try to help them..

Some GREAT, and very accurate weapons are out there that sell for $400 and up. Ruger, Savage, Remington and others are great starter guns to learn accuracy skills with.

Listen to their questions and offer helpful suggestions, not the same bullshit of "just save up more money" so they can afford a gun you probably don't have yourself.

I may be in the minority on this forum, but for my style of shooting, accuracy is #1, and I think most feel the same. Your "sub MOA" is impressive, but far more when inside the bullseye of the target.
 

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MK20 said:
You know, instead of the long winded expounding about how you hit such and such, you could have just shot a group on paper and then posted it like most folks.

Oh, and friends don't let friends buy savages.
Click to expand...

I'm very definitely not "like most folks".

and I take pride in it.

BTW, YOU hit a shotgun primer in 1 shot and post your pix. Holes can be faked on paper in many ways. It happens in here.
 
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In reality there are only three types of shooters, gamers, table meat hunters, and sheep dogs, be they forced or the volunteer type.

To the gamer its all about 100 rds in the same hole nothing more, and most think money is the key, and gear name is everything.
To the table meat hunter its about putting the meat on the table w/as little destruction and chasing as possible.
To the sheep dog, there are no different levels of dead, or out of the fight. As its focus is moving thru the objective most quickly, and getting back for beer thirty, and tits. Gear names to the Mutt mean nothing, but kit weight does.

No the money side.
The gamer well spend unlimited amounts to reduce the groups size to impress others or some oak board hanging on the wall.
The Table meat hunter will use whatever tool that goes bang and make adjustments to its ability range with ability.
The low level dog just uses whatever it is issued and adjusts its tactics from there. The higher tier dog gets to pick its tools, but still could care less about who made it, or cost. Both types of dogs could care less about where the hole is in the target because beer thirty & tits is rapidly approaching, closing time.

Now, on here, you have crossovers of all three types and that is how and where the fun starts.
 
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PinesAndProjectiles said:
Did you hit the shot shell on your first attempt?

Do it again.
Click to expand...
Next time I find an unspent shotgun shell at the range, I am damn sure gonna try it again.

And yes, 1st shot.

Did this to a 1 hour energy drink bottle. Diameter is 1.6 diameter.

100 yards
1st shot

People leave lots of trash at the range unfortunately.
 

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Mcrider55 said:
I joined this forum less than a month ago, seeking information & some advice about expanding my tactical gun skills to include longer distance precision shooting. Longest shots would probably be less than 500 yards.

I have a couple of decades of practicing tactical shooting skills behind me, all AR based.

To those who say a lower cost rifle isn't accurate, I say BULLSHIT.

Yesterday, my brother & I were shooting 100 yard targets. I normally shoot at poker chips with a contrasting yard dot in the center for contrast. Chips are 1.5" in diameter, yard dots are .75 diameter. Hitting the chip isn't difficult, hitting center of dot is.

He took an unspent 12 gauge shotgun shell he found laid it atop the 2 Inch foam archery target we use to staple targets to. The primer end pointed at me. He placed a red target dot over the primer so I could see it. The front of the shell was resting against a wood backstop people staple their targets to. My foam backstop rested against it..

1 shot, and I hit the shells primer, igniting the shell, the powder burns are evident. Examine the board and you can see exactly where the shell was laying when hit. The shotgun blast penetrated the plywood backing.

We found the remnant of the shell & the red paper dot..

Now you tell me again how you need a high dollar gun with yada yada yada aftermarket parts to be accurate.

I did this with my .223 Savage Axis II Precision and a Vortex Viper Venom scope I bought less that a month ago shooting my reload of a ArmorAlly 55gr fmg, 24 grains of Alliant 1200r with a CCI 450 primer and a range scavenged case. Twist on rifle is 1:7. Hardly considered an accurate load by many.

So when people ASK for opinions on how to get started, dump the bullshit about needing a gun way outside their budgets, and offer real advice. Don't do describe your "dream gun" you don't own, actually try to help them..

Some GREAT, and very accurate weapons are out there that sell for $400 and up. Ruger, Savage, Remington and others are great starter guns to learn accuracy skills with.

Listen to their questions and offer helpful suggestions, not the same bullshit of "just save up more money" so they can afford a gun you probably don't have yourself.

I may be in the minority on this forum, but for my style of shooting, accuracy is #1, and I think most feel the same. Your "sub MOA" is impressive, but far more when inside the bullseye of the target.
Click to expand...

Um, cool story bro👍
 
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go look at the Tac ops threads. And do that with every savage that leaves the factory for 30 years

No one says cheaper guns can’t be accurate, but posting about 1 shot and believing that you cracked the code

Not so much

I hit an ant or at least the bullet where the ant was crawling with my 22lr last Sunday while my center fire was cooling down…does that mean my 22 is more accurate than my center fire at 100
 
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While I am no great shakes at ELR.....100 yards in not an indicator of accuracy. Hell, on a good day I can hit a milk cap with a lever action 357 mag rifle. Will that rifle do the same thing at 300....400....1000? Of course not and I would not expect it to do so. Nor would I expect a $400 Savage to compete with an Accuracy International.
 
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I don’t think anyone says cheap guns aren’t accurate???

In fact routinely do we suggest things like Ruger Americans and what not because they tend to shoot well.

Even the savages. Of all the complaints on here very very seldom do you see one of the accuracy. In fact for the drain pipe resembling barrels they have they shoot exceptionally well. Any savage owner like myself would tell you that

It’s many other things that come into play. Like ejection and extraction issues. Which savage is plagued with.

Accurate rifles are great. Accurate and reliable rifles are excellent though.

We used to shoot .22 casings at 50 and 100 yards all the time with savage MkII FV that we had. I still have that rifle.
 
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wvfarrier said:
While I am no great shakes at ELR.....100 yards in not an indicator of accuracy. Hell, on a good day I can hit a milk cap with a lever action 357 mag rifle. Will that rifle do the same thing at 300....400....1000? Of course not and I would not expect it to do so. Nor would I expect a $400 Savage to compete with an Accuracy International.
Click to expand...
I never brought up competition. It's about new people looking to get into longer range shooting and the amount of money they have available and actually getting them started into this type of shooting at the ranges they have available.

Not everybody has a infinite amount they can spend nor do they have the longer yardage ranges to shoot at.

The premise of my post is that a lower dollar rifle setup can be VERY accurate at ranges up to 400 to 500 yards. You know as well as I do that various environmental facts such as temp, wind, humidity have an effect and being able to shoot in those conditions at 100 yards or more will get you going down that learning curve.

You have to hit what you are aiming at when shooting 50 or 100 before you even begin to think about stretching it out to longer distances.

Getting that confidence and keeping it is as important to shooting as the quality of the gun you have, probably more so.
 
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Mcrider55 said:
The premise of my post is that a lower dollar rifle setup can be VERY accurate at ranges up to 400 to 500 yards. You know as well as I do that various environmental facts such as temp, wind, humidity have an effect and being able to shoot in those conditions at 100 yards or more will get you going down that learning curve.

You have to hit what you are aiming at when shooting 50 or 100 before you even begin to think about stretching it out to longer distances.
Click to expand...
At this point with advances in optics, ammo and rifles I wouldn’t even call 100-500 longer distances. Most novice shooters with a factory rifles will hit decent at those distances.
 
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hafejd30 said:
At this point with advances in optics, ammo and rifles I wouldn’t even call 100-500 longer distances. Most novice shooters with a factory rifles will hit decent at those distances.
Click to expand...
I don't think its distance. Seems once you start getting past 10-15 minutes of up past a 100yd zero no matter the stick or round, things start getting harder, do to mother nature and the shooters ability to read her correctly.
15 minutes w/my 308 shooting high speed 175 smk rds puts me at 600yds,
15 minutes shooting subsonics thru the same stick puts me at 200yds,
15 minutes of 300wm throwing 190s smk's puts me at 700yds
 
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Gunfighter14e2 said:
I don't think its distance. Seems once you start getting past 10-15 minutes of up past a 100yd zero no matter the stick or round, things start getting harder, do to mother nature and the shooters ability to read her correctly.
15 minutes w/my 308 shooting high speed 175 smk rds puts me at 600yds,
15 minutes shooting subsonics thru the same stick puts me at 200yds,
15 minutes of 300wm throwing 190s smk's puts me at 700yds
Click to expand...
It takes a bullet 15 minutes to get to the target? No wonder I’m missing so much, I need to wait longer to see impacts
 
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Rio Precision Gunworks said:
Almost no one says this, and mostly the people who do say this are people insecure with their inability to own more expensive rifles.
Click to expand...
I don't care who you are, you can not,... buy,... into long range. I've seen it over & over, FNG's show up with all Gucci this or Gucci that and come in below guys shooting what you would call a POS.
Ability always trumps Gucci, and trying to make people believe they can just buy in, is telling.
 
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I'm not against reasonable quality at value prices, but to some extent you get what you pay for. I did load development for my friends Savage Axis 30-06, it struggled to get even 1 MOA and it is hard to shoot well.
My competition rifle is sub 1/2 MOA and easy to shoot. If you want to change minds go to any precision competition and post your score and ranking with your budget rifle.
 
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Rio Precision Gunworks said:
Almost no one says this, and mostly the people who do say this are people insecure with their inability to own more expensive rifles.

Also, precision is the metric you are describing, not accuracy
Click to expand...

Expensive gear in no way makes you a better shooter, unless you are entering the realm of competition.

Just as an expensive guitar doesn't make one a better player, or an expensive car make them a better driver. You make your living dealing with expensive gear. It's all about actually putting a shit load of rounds down range and developing your skills, and confidence.

You call it precision, I call it accuracy.

Difference of opinion.
 
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If OP has a an exceptionally great Savage, then that’s cool. He’s lucky.

I point shot an egg at 7 yd with a very large magnum pistol from the hip. I’ll never repeat that for a number of reasons. Chief among them is not caring.
 
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Mcrider55 said:
I joined this forum less than a month ago, seeking information & some advice about expanding my tactical gun skills to include longer distance precision shooting. Longest shots would probably be less than 500 yards.

I have a couple of decades of practicing tactical shooting skills behind me, all AR based.

To those who say a lower cost rifle isn't accurate, I say BULLSHIT.

Yesterday, my brother & I were shooting 100 yard targets. I normally shoot at poker chips with a contrasting yard dot in the center for contrast. Chips are 1.5" in diameter, yard dots are .75 diameter. Hitting the chip isn't difficult, hitting center of dot is.

He took an unspent 12 gauge shotgun shell he found laid it atop the 2 Inch foam archery target we use to staple targets to. The primer end pointed at me. He placed a red target dot over the primer so I could see it. The front of the shell was resting against a wood backstop people staple their targets to. My foam backstop rested against it..

1 shot, and I hit the shells primer, igniting the shell, the powder burns are evident. Examine the board and you can see exactly where the shell was laying when hit. The shotgun blast penetrated the plywood backing.

We found the remnant of the shell & the red paper dot..

Now you tell me again how you need a high dollar gun with yada yada yada aftermarket parts to be accurate.

I did this with my .223 Savage Axis II Precision and a Vortex Viper Venom scope I bought less that a month ago shooting my reload of a ArmorAlly 55gr fmg, 24 grains of Alliant 1200r with a CCI 450 primer and a range scavenged case. Twist on rifle is 1:7. Hardly considered an accurate load by many.

So when people ASK for opinions on how to get started, dump the bullshit about needing a gun way outside their budgets, and offer real advice. Don't do describe your "dream gun" you don't own, actually try to help them..

Some GREAT, and very accurate weapons are out there that sell for $400 and up. Ruger, Savage, Remington and others are great starter guns to learn accuracy skills with.

Listen to their questions and offer helpful suggestions, not the same bullshit of "just save up more money" so they can afford a gun you probably don't have yourself.

I may be in the minority on this forum, but for my style of shooting, accuracy is #1, and I think most feel the same. Your "sub MOA" is impressive, but far more when inside the bullseye of the target.
Click to expand...
That`s good shootin` there Tex on that shotgun shell! A 2" gong at 200 with my 93R17 17HMR , particularly in a bit of breeze, is proving to be a challenge! Lots of fun though!
 
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I love it when the "Here watch me crush the beer can on my forehead" crowd chirps in. They totally disregard the topic of my post and instead just post stupid comments to drive up their post count.

They prove the bell curve is very real.
 
Savages can be quite accurate. Stereotypes about Savage owners can be quite accurate too.

I get it though. You are excited that you shot a good group or two (your post was TLDR since it was predictable). However, barging in and swinging your micropenis at everyone with no wins, trophies or awards to your credit is going to cause you to win some trophies and awards by the time everyone gets done with you in this thread.
 
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5 years ago or so Walmart was clearing out 700s for $79. I went down, asked the store manager for help, and he promptly said the last one was sold which I think it was sold to him lol. He scanned a Savage bolt gun of some sort in 7mm-08 for $48. I passed. Found out a week later Savage was offering a $50 rebate on same gun. No regrets.
 
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Mcrider55 said:
You pissed because their abilities with a Savage was better than yours?

The blowhards are those who think their stuff is better than what other have.

All they way up until the time the shit gets real and it goes from put up or shut up.
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I know what you need to get off the 100y line shooting trash and out past 500. Quigley Ford scopes. If you show them this thread they might wave the bow kill requirement to get one. You bench 275 already, correct? (When they ask, the answer is "yes.")😉use code BUDDLY for a discount.
 
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Welcome to the Hide Mcrider.

It's ok to be happy with your Savage. Heck, I had a Marlin XS7 that does the same, but it wouldn't be the rifle I grab for a $10k Elk hunt or if my life depended on it.

And unless I wanted a good ribbing .... I wouldn't post about it here.

Every forum has It's own personality.

Welcome to the Hide.
 
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