Night Vision NVG specs, guru question
- Thread starter Triton225
- Start date
You’re not gonna notice.
If you’ve got a couple tubes in mind with specs then just post them up and we can give you some thoughts on the best one.
It’s more complicated than just looking at single specs but overall you aren’t going to notice small differences like that.
If you’ve got a couple tubes in mind with specs then just post them up and we can give you some thoughts on the best one.
It’s more complicated than just looking at single specs but overall you aren’t going to notice small differences like that.
Don’t get paralysis by analysis.
I’d shoot for the following MINIMUM specs for most modern WP tubes:
72lp (or higher) Center Resolution
30 S/N (or higher)
1.5 EBI (or LESS)
0.9 Halo (or LESS)
Anything above that is gravy, but you won’t notice unless the specs are MUCH better, and even then it’s unlikely. Even 64lp is fine, really.
A good housing with good optics and proper collimation if dual-tube / binos. Most second-tier NV vendors suck at building a quality set with proper collimation.
I’d shoot for the following MINIMUM specs for most modern WP tubes:
72lp (or higher) Center Resolution
30 S/N (or higher)
1.5 EBI (or LESS)
0.9 Halo (or LESS)
Anything above that is gravy, but you won’t notice unless the specs are MUCH better, and even then it’s unlikely. Even 64lp is fine, really.
A good housing with good optics and proper collimation if dual-tube / binos. Most second-tier NV vendors suck at building a quality set with proper collimation.
Also understand that your best option is usually a tube with some "balance" in specifications.
Sure you may find that tube with that .5 or less Ebi you thought was the golden grail of specifications, but that same tube might also have low SN or a lot of spots, etc.
It's a bit of a compromise.
And seeing thousands of tubes and data sheets, from mid grade tubes up to really nice M23H, 20um and higher filmless, etc. there is always some compromise.
Sure you will occasionally see a 3000 FOM tube or damn near that, but it's likely got SOMETHING off with it. It's a rare thing to find some crazy high tube that is also clean, low Ebi and checks "all" the boxes.
We track every batch of tubes that arrives, so that we notice averages, outliers, etc. 800 or more tubes some years, tracking each tubes specs helps us to see trends, determine whether a certain tube grade is "worth it" for the price paid and what it can be sold for, etc. For example, the 18 um grade of filmless- one of the most common grades sold- were "for us" not worth buying as the price was close to 20 um and the 20 um tubes were a helluva lot cleaner and tighter in numbers.
Ditto with thin filmed, the xls shit grade or "bottom of the barrel" as others have called them, weren't worth it. There are outliers here and there with some of these lesser grades, but looking at the whole as a lot, considerably lower #s and not as clean as the mid grade SLH tubes.
Sure you may find that tube with that .5 or less Ebi you thought was the golden grail of specifications, but that same tube might also have low SN or a lot of spots, etc.
It's a bit of a compromise.
And seeing thousands of tubes and data sheets, from mid grade tubes up to really nice M23H, 20um and higher filmless, etc. there is always some compromise.
Sure you will occasionally see a 3000 FOM tube or damn near that, but it's likely got SOMETHING off with it. It's a rare thing to find some crazy high tube that is also clean, low Ebi and checks "all" the boxes.
We track every batch of tubes that arrives, so that we notice averages, outliers, etc. 800 or more tubes some years, tracking each tubes specs helps us to see trends, determine whether a certain tube grade is "worth it" for the price paid and what it can be sold for, etc. For example, the 18 um grade of filmless- one of the most common grades sold- were "for us" not worth buying as the price was close to 20 um and the 20 um tubes were a helluva lot cleaner and tighter in numbers.
Ditto with thin filmed, the xls shit grade or "bottom of the barrel" as others have called them, weren't worth it. There are outliers here and there with some of these lesser grades, but looking at the whole as a lot, considerably lower #s and not as clean as the mid grade SLH tubes.
Building some binos right now; buying and crying once. Wanted some opinions. Tube set will cost $6,600 for L3 filmless. I hunt only in natural areas without man made light. I can hand select but have been encouraged on this set:
72/72lp
36.5/36.4 snr
1.0/0.7ebi
.7/.7 halo
2628/2101 cathode sensitivity
64488/63843 luminance gain
No blems
Pretty good set it would appear and will be a huge jump from my last set, but I’m ponying up the cash and looking for the best. Understand there’s more than specs to package performance but it’s a place to start. Do you all like these #’s? The EBI seemed a bit on the high side for my liking.
Thanks!
72/72lp
36.5/36.4 snr
1.0/0.7ebi
.7/.7 halo
2628/2101 cathode sensitivity
64488/63843 luminance gain
No blems
Pretty good set it would appear and will be a huge jump from my last set, but I’m ponying up the cash and looking for the best. Understand there’s more than specs to package performance but it’s a place to start. Do you all like these #’s? The EBI seemed a bit on the high side for my liking.
Thanks!
Those specs are excellent and 6600 for both is a good deal. 1.0 EBI is completely fine unless you’re using the tube for astrophotography.
Lowdown mentioned it, but clean tubes are a thing. I’m more tolerant than most of tubes with “peppering,” blems and FPN/Chickenwire pattern. When I’m trudging around outside I don’t see them, and I don’t inspect white walls at night for a living. FPN stands out more to me than specks or blems, and there’s no place for that on the sheet. Also, “Tiger Striping” can be a bit off-putting, and there’s no measurement for that either.
Because higher tube resolutions (91LP and even 105LP) are just starting to trickle into the consumer market, FOM numbers get massively skewed. You can now have a 3000 FOM tube with a low 30’s S/N, so keep an eye on that. The new 4um tubes (usually the P/N ends in “1702”) are the culprits here, but one interesting side benefit is increased DoF, which before I thought was due to optics alone, but turns out the tubes play a part in that. My 3800 FOM 91LP 1702 binos could read normal text at arms-length when focused at infinity. That was crazy cool.
I won a single SOF reject tube because EBI exceeded their new 3000 MIN FOM spec. It was 105LP and 42.6 S/N. Doing the maths, that’s 4473 FOM (ironically). It was bonkers expensive and I got an offer I couldn’t refuse ($16K for ONE tube), so like any good Capitalist I jumped on it.
Because higher tube resolutions (91LP and even 105LP) are just starting to trickle into the consumer market, FOM numbers get massively skewed. You can now have a 3000 FOM tube with a low 30’s S/N, so keep an eye on that. The new 4um tubes (usually the P/N ends in “1702”) are the culprits here, but one interesting side benefit is increased DoF, which before I thought was due to optics alone, but turns out the tubes play a part in that. My 3800 FOM 91LP 1702 binos could read normal text at arms-length when focused at infinity. That was crazy cool.
I won a single SOF reject tube because EBI exceeded their new 3000 MIN FOM spec. It was 105LP and 42.6 S/N. Doing the maths, that’s 4473 FOM (ironically). It was bonkers expensive and I got an offer I couldn’t refuse ($16K for ONE tube), so like any good Capitalist I jumped on it.
I didn't know you owned that tube, legendary haha
OP - those tubes are great on paper and if you've got a reputable builder saying they are a well matched set then I'd say rock on with them. I've got one of those 1702 tubes, it's EBI is 1.6, and I'm extremely pleased with it in a clip on. The Elbit tubes I ran in dual 14's had 32-34 SNR and I was happy with them even on dark nights. Unfilmed tubes with 36 SNR would only be better for multiple reasons
What are their new minimums and maximums for the various catergories.
@TheHorta you shoulda had Jay put that 4400fom tube in a PVS 30 lol.
Thank you for your efforts to bring the proper terminology to North America.
Agreed - if there's anything I've learned about modern tubes, it's that >72lp belongs in clip-ons.
That was 100% the plan, and we were about to do it, then I get a text the following day from a dude who owns a casino(s) in LV and just happens to be into NV who offered double what I paid, so I pondered it for about 4.63 seconds and took the cash.
Would’ve been epic. Still have ragrets, but not big ones.
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