Bergara sucks ass, buyer beware.

Green461 said:

90% of everything I buy, guns, gun parts, has to be sent back...

Click to expand...

LOL, are serious?! Where do you shop? Goodwill?

In the past 6 months I've purchased:

2 x XLR Envy Pro chassis. They're GTG

AI AICS ATX chassis - GTG

3 x suppressors. I was a little disappointed. The Fly45 is louder on my 10 mm and than a 8yr old Silencer Co Octane 45 but it's not defective.

A Mcgowen barrel blank and I had a Smith chamber it. I did have to take the barrel back to the Smith because he put tl3 long action tenon on it instead of a short action tenon on it, but he fixed it. It shoots amazing.

A Craddock RTR 22 ARC barrel. The gasport erosion looks a little rough but it shoots pretty good.

1000ct box of Berger 85.5's. that is an outstanding bullet and shoots great.

Honestly, I could go on and on but what are you buying that 90% has to be returned?

@redneckbmxer24 Not to say there isn't something amiss with the rifle, but how about trying other bullet brands? I had ELDMs not shoot for shit in some barrels, but laser beam others. I ran some micrometer tests on several bullets per bullet brand and found the diameters were not all the same. Some were .0006 over caliber size and some only .0002 over caliber size. Might be something to do with how they seal/obturates in a particular bore?

You caught shit for continuing to buy Bergara, but I look at it that you've more license to your complaint than someone who just went apeshit after just one. So, good on you for persevering until you saw a bad pattern with the multiple samples. (The jabbing comments were pretty damn funny and I hope you were able to get a little chuckle out of them. LOL)

Maybe you have custom rifles and like to fuck around with the cheapies, I like to do that with Savage, but I can spin barrels and suss out problems pretty quick with a Savage. I run ARC actions, Benchmark barrels with my selected reamers, etc and all them rigs shoot great! Worth the extra money over a train wreck like this lemon you got.

Hold up stop posting stuff. I need to go to the store and get more popcorn.
Be back in 10 minutes.

redneckbmxer24 said:

No, epoxy is never permanent. It’s no harder to remove than a thread with red loctite. Even if you could figure out how to successfully weld the aluminum base to the steel receiver that’s not even permanent.

I use JB quick on scope bases because it only takes 300 degrees to remove vs 500 degrees for regular JB and has a higher compression strength.

Click to expand...

In the industries I've worked in epoxy is, for all intents and purposes, permanent. My fault for applying this assumption to this application.

Why are you buying Bergera rifles to begin with? Let alone 4? Thats the only mystery here.

JR1200W3 said:

LOL, are serious?! Where do you shop? Goodwill?

Click to expand...

I cant even keep track.. No matter where. 2 days ago I just sent some safety glasses back to Amazon, ordered dark tinted ones and they sent clear. They resent me the correct ones and then fed ex sends me a confirmation picture of someone elses garage with a package in it... so didnt get that.. Every damn time i order something i cringe.

My gun project folder has 14 other folders in it of problem of big QC things that had to be returned... Thats just gun stuff. I have car stuff, truck, semi, guitar, amps, electronics...
Gun related.
Ruger Vaquero I ordered new. Came with what looked like they used an angle grinder to polish it, high polish finish sent back.
Buckmark 22 same thing, machined with a bit from WWII Yugoslavia... or a beaver. sent back.
Various AR lowers and uppers sent back., out of spec, mags wont fit or machined by a beaver
Various barrels, 3 Faxons sent back in a row... never deal with them again.. I know my fault.
Failzero BCG was machined by a beaver, all nicked and dinged up, burrs on it... sent back
Griffin QD end plate machined wrong,
Guntec packed handgaurd in gravel sent back twice finsh all ate off it
Custom holster makers -- sent back as made too tight and rubbing finish off slide. (or would)
Various gas tubes sent back because they sent them in an envelope and got crushed
Vortex scope just had to go back a couple months ago, new, and had a piece of debris stuck inside lens.
Kynshot shotgun buffer just was returned, locked tight and took 70lbs of force to even get it to move... junk.

So many I didnt take time to document or take pics but just sent back... The shippers (UPS, Fedex) are doing the damage a lot, but its the idiots at the companies that are not knowing how to pack stuff.. Gas tubes and safety glasses shipped in a baggie lol.... But so many are cutting corners on QC. Based on what ive seen i wouldnt doubt at all that the material being used is also cheaper quality and not controlled. They pump out 10,000 of them and then QC one of them. Looks good ship them out....

Green461 said:

I cant even keep track.. No matter where. 2 days ago I just sent some safety glasses back to Amazon, ordered dark tinted ones and they sent clear. They resent me the correct ones and then fed ex sends me a confirmation picture of someone elses garage with a package in it... so didnt get that.. Every damn time i order something i cringe.

My gun project folder has 14 other folders in it of problem of big QC things that had to be returned... Thats just gun stuff. I have car stuff, truck, semi, guitar, amps, electronics...
Gun related.
Ruger Vaquero I ordered new. Came with what looked like they used an angle grinder to polish it, high polish finish sent back.
Buckmark 22 same thing, machined with a bit from WWII Yugoslavia... or a beaver. sent back.
Various AR lowers and uppers sent back., out of spec, mags wont fit or machined by a beaver
Various barrels, 3 Faxons sent back in a row... never deal with them again.. I know my fault.
Failzero BCG was machined by a beaver, all nicked and dinged up, burrs on it... sent back
Griffin QD end plate machined wrong,
Guntec packed handgaurd in gravel sent back twice finsh all ate off it
Custom holster makers -- sent back as made too tight and rubbing finish off slide. (or would)
Various gas tubes sent back because they sent them in an envelope and got crushed
Vortex scope just had to go back a couple months ago, new, and had a piece of debris stuck inside lens.
Kynshot shotgun buffer just was returned, locked tight and took 70lbs of force to even get it to move... junk.

So many I didnt take time to document or take pics but just sent back... The shippers (UPS, Fedex) are doing the damage a lot, but its the idiots at the companies that are not knowing how to pack stuff.. Gas tubes and safety glasses shipped in a baggie lol.... But so many are cutting corners on QC. Based on what ive seen i wouldnt doubt at all that the material being used is also cheaper quality and not controlled. They pump out 10,000 of them and then QC one of them. Looks good ship them out....

Click to expand...

Are you just buying cheap shit? Ruger? Amazon eyepro? Vortex scopes (that warranty thou...), Faxon barrels?

...Bergera rifles (*cough @redneckbmxer24 )

Friend bought a Bergera 6.5 CM found a lack of precision, sold it and bought a Christensen Arms that he likes…mostly for crop damage hunting.

Another friend bought both a Bergera and a Christensen both in 300 PRC. Factory ammo and hand loads just didn’t shoot well in the Bergera. He bedded it, swapped optics, checked torque on relevant screws….didn’t really help. He likes the Christensen.

Those are my only inputs to this convo.

JR1200W3 said:

Are you just buying cheap shit? Ruger? Amazon eyepro? Vortex scopes (that warranty thou...), Faxon barrels?

...Bergera rifles (*cough @redneckbmxer24 )

Click to expand...

Some is ya, but some isnt. Eye pro the Jackson Nemesis I prefer for sunglasses. But point was 90% of the places in damn near every field are skimping right now and taking short cuts.. maybe its 75% or 50 or so... but its still high compared to 5 years ago.
A lot of what places were say 5 years ago are no longer. Especially mass produced stuff. I really considered buying a Bergara a couple months ago, but then I read and thought about this all post covid DEI quality stuff everywhere and the nightmare ive had and reading about others I bought good parts and built one instead.
I looked at a Benelli M4 in Brownells showroom i think it was last fall... machine marks, casting flaws in the lug on the barrel where the retaining nut goes on, it was horrible. I've looked at a lot of things and pay attention to fine details.

redneckbmxer24 said:

I was in sportsmans about a week ago looking at semi auto shotguns and picked up a SBE3 20ga since that was one of the top contenders and racked the bolt back and it locked up. I handed it to the hunting manager since I didn’t want to fuck with it because it wasn’t mine and they started trying to get it to release, I picked up another one and it did the same thing. He brought the one to the back and got it apart and brought the receiver and bolt assembly back out and it was rough as shit inside on the rails. I started looking closer at them and pretty much every one on the rack was rough but the Beretta A400’s weren’t. The sad part is the Turkish guns on the rack had better machining than the Benellis.

I’ve owned a lot of Benellis and have never had an issue with a single one I’ve owned and the build quality was great on them but there’s something going on there. No way would I buy a new one today based on what I saw.

Click to expand...

I have a 20 year old SBE II and while they are indeed a bit rough looking for the money at the time, it has never failed me in freezing ice, mud, and gunk. It just works and if ever in a pit or blind and it gets a bit balky from not cleaning and dirt from hunting, a couple of drops of Break-free and it just keeps on going.

But yes, the machining on mine (and all of them really) is not particularly well finished. But mine runs and I've never had a problem with it locking up while open. One of the things I like about it is how simple it is to break down..even in the blind. No gas system, pull the barrel off with the extension (the top of the receiver) and the bolt is right there.

Cheers

Green461 said:

Some is ya, but some isnt. Eye pro the Jackson Nemesis I prefer for sunglasses. But point was 90% of the places in damn near every field are skimping right now and taking short cuts.. maybe its 75% or 50 or so... but its still high compared to 5 years ago.
A lot of what places were say 5 years ago are no longer. Especially mass produced stuff. I really considered buying a Bergara a couple months ago, but then I read and thought about this all post covid DEI quality stuff everywhere and the nightmare ive had and reading about others I bought good parts and built one instead.
I looked at a Benelli M4 in Brownells showroom i think it was last fall... machine marks, casting flaws in the lug on the barrel where the retaining nut goes on, it was horrible. I've looked at a lot of things and pay attention to fine details.

Click to expand...

Here's some Eye pro for you.

JR1200W3 said:

Here's some Eye pro for you.

Marauder

Military Sunglasses inferno

www.gatorz.com

Click to expand...

I am too hard on them, 6 months life span and they are done. So i buy cheapies.

Baron23 said:

I have a 20 year old SBE II and while they are indeed a bit rough looking

Click to expand...

Its the more recent stuff seems to be not as good and more problems.

redneckbmxer24 said:

I was in sportsmans about a week ago looking at semi auto shotguns and picked up a SBE3 20ga since that was one of the top contenders and racked the bolt back and it locked up. I handed it to the hunting manager since I didn’t want to fuck with it because it wasn’t mine and they started trying to get it to release, I picked up another one and it did the same thing. He brought the one to the back and got it apart and brought the receiver and bolt assembly back out and it was rough as shit inside on the rails. I started looking closer at them and pretty much every one on the rack was rough but the Beretta A400’s weren’t. The sad part is the Turkish guns on the rack had better machining than the Benellis.

I’ve owned a lot of Benellis and have never had an issue with a single one I’ve owned and the build quality was great on them but there’s something going on there. No way would I buy a new one today based on what I saw.

Click to expand...

I had just purchased a Turkish M4 (Panzer) and thats why I was inspecting the Benelli and also shocked that the one I bought was way better looking than the real deal. Not to hijack this guys thread too much lol, but here is a comparison. No reason Benelli couldnt have finished that bracket before putting it on the barrel and then coating it. They just threw it together.

redneckbmxer24 said:

That’s highly likely a cast part and from the casting and not pitting.

Click to expand...

Right, it looks like shit. All rough., and pitted from the casting. The picture isnt the best detail, but there is some pitting, i guess you could call it casting flaws. Not something i'd expect on a high end shotgun. Just shows you the manufacturing of everything post covid has gone downhill.. it sucks. Its everywhere.

redneckbmxer24 said:

Casting marks are not pitting, pitting is a result of metal corrosion. I care far less about stuff like that than the machine surfaces that matter for function.

If I want a pretty shotgun with a flawless finish to jack off on I’ll pick a high end over under that starts at 3x what an M4 costs and goes up to what a house costs.

Click to expand...

Pitting can be caused by anything, sand blasting, casting, corrosion, the cause has nothing to do with the condition... But regardless its all relevant as Point was its current manufacturing standards.... like your POS barrel. Welcome to post covid products.

Thought I'd drop this in here.

Mike Casselton said:

Thought I'd drop this in here.

View attachment 8405408

Click to expand...

Maybe he needs a BOGO deal?

Green461 said:

Its the more recent stuff seems to be not as good and more problems.

Click to expand...

Yeah, Beretta can take a wet dream and fuck it up.

O remember when they tried to convince us that their pressed in checkering (maybe lasered) was to improve grip. Such BS, it was ugly and nothing but a cost reduction.

Then there was the “extra” wood….just a dipped 2 x4…and they thought we’d go for it. Sigh.

I no still have a 682 Gold (the OG gold with the titanium nitrate finish on the receiver) 12/20 factory two barrel set. It’s an outstanding shotgun but it’s also vintage 1996 or so. I’m not sure any of their current offering excite me very much.

Damn, I though this horse beating would have run out of Vaseline by now.

Shoulda bought a Savage. I hear they're great.

JoshPutman said:

Shoulda bought a Savage. I hear they're great.

Click to expand...

As jack handles, or pry bars they work good out of the box. Fiddle with them for 2-3 months they perk up and preform well.

I have never read so much misinformation in a thread as in this one.
Gentlemen understand a topic before commenting on it.

Baron23 said:

Yeah, Beretta can take a wet dream and fuck it up.

O remember when they tried to convince us that their pressed in checkering (maybe lasered) was to improve grip. Such BS, it was ugly and nothing but a cost reduction.

Then there was the “extra” wood….just a dipped 2 x4…and they thought we’d go for it. Sigh.

I no still have a 682 Gold (the OG gold with the titanium nitrate finish on the receiver) 12/20 factory two barrel set. It’s an outstanding shotgun but it’s also vintage 1996 or so. I’m not sure any of their current offering excite me very much.

Click to expand...

Oh, I remember all that...

After having my old Xtrema2 stolen back in 2008 (bought it new in 2006), 28" Max4HD, Kick-Off system, top of the line model. I finally decided after all these years to go get another semi-auto shotgun to replace it, as I don't bird hunt or shoot skeet often anymore, but would like to get back into it. So I walked into the LGS to buy a new Beretta A400 Xplor, which is basically the new version of the Xtrema2, and it was very underwhelming to say the least... It didn't point as nicely as I remembered the old Xtrema2, and it certainly didn't seem to swing as nicely and smoothly... My buddy works there, and he said, "I know you're not a Benelli fan (he knows I hated the SBE2, because they were absolute runover dogshit)...But try this one, I think you'll like it..." He handed me a new 28" M2 and it was so light and nimble, it threw up to my eye perfect like 20/25 times standing in the store... And the trigger was really crisp and light for a shotgun. It was also HALF what the new A400 Xplor was. I was so impressed with how good it felt in my hands and how well it pointed and swung for me, I bought the damn thing...Because shotguns aren't precision weapons, it's more about how well it fits and feels to YOU individually, to determine how accurate you'll be with it. Can't wait to get out and shoot it...Been too busy lately, because the shotgun club is an hour away.

Sorry for the continuation, just added onto the already derailed topic... Proceed back on track.

Found the video of the op when he got his rifle back and it wouldn’t shoot.

FuhQ said:

Oh, I remember all that...

After having my old Xtrema2 stolen back in 2008 (bought it new in 2006), 28" Max4HD, Kick-Off system, top of the line model. I finally decided after all these years to go get another semi-auto shotgun to replace it, as I don't bird hunt or shoot skeet often anymore, but would like to get back into it. So I walked into the LGS to buy a new Beretta A400 Xplor, which is basically the new version of the Xtrema2, and it was very underwhelming to say the least... It didn't point as nicely as I remembered the old Xtrema2, and it certainly didn't seem to swing as nicely and smoothly... My buddy works there, and he said, "I know you're not a Benelli fan (he knows I hated the SBE2, because they were absolute runover dogshit)...But try this one, I think you'll like it..." He handed me a new 28" M2 and it was so light and nimble, it threw up to my eye perfect like 20/25 times standing in the store... And the trigger was really crisp and light for a shotgun. It was also HALF what the new A400 Xplor was. I was so impressed with how good it felt in my hands and how well it pointed and swung for me, I bought the damn thing...Because shotguns aren't precision weapons, it's more about how well it fits and feels to YOU individually, to determine how accurate you'll be with it. Can't wait to get out and shoot it...Been too busy lately, because the shotgun club is an hour away.

Sorry for the continuation, just added onto the already derailed topic... Proceed back on track.

Click to expand...

Well, let's derail is just a bit more....yep, a number of people I know don't think anything new from Beretta is ever better than the older model shotguns. A good friend of mine who still competes (I'm 71 with a newly fused lumbar so that ain't me anymore) REALLY wanted to buy my Beretta 390. He was absolutely adamant that the 390 was a better gun than the 391/A400 for a number of reasons.

I really didn't use the gun much anymore so I did sell it to him to use in doubles and 12 ga events. It was a Ballistics Specialty see-what-I'm-saying package with lengthened forcing cones, Angle Port porting (really, same company as B.S.), worked over trigger that beat the crap out of the factory standard, Angle Port extended choke tubes, mercury recoil reducers/weight in end cap/magazine/and stock. Adjustable comb and butt plate. Really the whole package.

I took it to the club to meet him and sell it...we ended up sharing it for a few rounds and I was hammering targets (and that don't happen much anymore, I'll tell you) and I tried to back out of it but he wouldn't take no for an answer. Truth be told, I'm glad he has it and will campaign it as it mostly just sat in my safe recently.

Glad you like your M2 and I'm sure you will shoot it wonderfully when you finally get it on the range.

Makinchips208 said:

Found the video of the op when he got his rifle back and it wouldn’t shoot.

Click to expand...

Shot from a Thorazine dart gun would help that boy out immensely. LOL

Makinchips208 said:

Found the video of the op when he got his rifle back and it wouldn’t shoot.

Click to expand...

That was armature grade. I didnt see one thing get destroyed.

Maggot said:

That was armature grade. I didnt see one thing get destroyed.

Click to expand...

True…

Baron23 said:

Shot from a Thorazine dart gun would help that boy out immensely. LOL

Click to expand...

A belt across his ass would shut it all down.

lariat said:

A belt across his ass would shut it all down.

Click to expand...

Well, not necessarily. My friend’s child is well on the autism spectrum and sometime he just melts down. He can’t help it. He can’t stop it.

I don’t know what that young man’s situation is but, thinking about it more, I sort of regret my flippant prior post.

Dude I got some fucking banana bread at work today dude hell yea my mom told me that if I like wait for things then like good things will happen like getting banana bread at work today dude hell yea so it just goes to show that waiting for good things is like worth it dude but there are like a lot of bad things in this world dude like fucking Berretta dude hell no buying a Bergara and it shoots like fucking shit dude, hell no dude buying A FUCKING SAVAGE AND THE EXTRACTOR TAKES A FUCKING SHIT AT A FUCKING MATCH DUDE WHILE ALL THE OTHER FUCKING DUDES ARE LIKE LAUGHING AT YOU DUDE HELL NO BUT BANANA BREAD AT FUCKING WORK DUDE HELL YEA DUDE HELL YEA

Hecouldgoalltheway said:

I think there seems to be reason to believe that there is an issue with the 7mm prc. Not all of them, but definitely seems to be something going on. Well over half of the 7mm prc rifle owners I've known could not get them to shoot and had to send them back again and a again. This is the first bergara I've heard of.

As far as Bergara making shit rifles, just stop. You know that's bullshit. I've owned or own a dozen of them, my friends have dozens more, and it's a brand you almost never hear of an issue with. Their stuff is simple, and other than a paint thickness issue that I have seen before, I just don't see anyone complaining about them. At this point they must be selling a million rifles a year in the US. Their barrels are excellent. Granted, anyone can make a lemon, but your reaction here, while par for the course, isn't justified.

Click to expand...

They seem to make a lot of lemons.
Don't recall any MFG having as many complaints as Bergara on here.

But yeah,
The fuck you buying a 4th Bergara for? Once I'm burned, I'm off that company indefinitely.

I had one Bergara.
Bolt lugs were absurdly soft, and they galled badly just from a few cycles of the action. Local GS replaced it with another, which sat in the box unfired for 2yrs.

I never felt comfortable with it. Sold it at a loss, and bought a Origin action.
Which I should have done from the jump.

redneckbmxer24 said:

The rifles suck but the CS is decent at least. My MPR had headspace .003” short of SAAMI minimum and wouldn’t chamber new brass or ammo without forcing it or sizing it back. I sized some back just to shoot it and it shot pretty well. Called CS and explained what was going on and they said they’d ream the chamber per my request… idiot tech decided to ignore the notes and replaced the barrel instead with a new one that strung as it warmed up from the first shot. They offered to replace the whole rifle with a new one and I sold it… Yet Bergara wouldn’t even lap the lugs that are barely fucking contacting.

Click to expand...

Lapping square surfaces together. Ok.

Lapping not square surfaces together. Waste of time. It's just wearing a groove in the most flat peice.

I bet not to many of those remingtons you mentioned had great even lug contact. But I bet they still shot fine.

Maggot said:

That was armature grade. I didnt see one thing get destroyed.

Click to expand...

Was his armature shorted out?

Darryle said:

Was his armature shorted out?

Click to expand...

Do we know who made the growler, it was tested on?

Long ago at a Po-Lice range a bud was in charge of, had a guy that could not get a 308 on paper at 100yds. We checked everything, & found nothing wrong with the gun, scope & mounting or ammo. So we removed the .284 break,... He Installed,... and showed him it would shoot under moa. Then ask if he wanted his break put back on, you can guess what he said before he promptly left. Some people are just wound to tight I guess.

redneckbmxer24 said:

The rifle has been shot with 4 different types of ammo and bullets including the Federal TA that Bergara guarantees it to shoot with. Factory ammo in 7PRC is still limited in flavors and I have zero interest in reloading for it. They guarantee it to shoot sub MOA with factory match ammo so it should.

I have high end stuff but I wanted a 7PRC hunting rifle and got tired of trying to find a PH2 and didn’t want to spend $3K+ putting one together for my uses. I rolled the dice on this since it had been a while since I had owned a Bergara and thought maybe they had their shit together based on reports, I lost. After the first bad range session and calling Bergara on the way home to set up the RMA, my second call was to Jason at Euro Optic to order the Seekins I should have just gotten from the start and he talked me into an Element and I’m glad I went that route. My plan was to keep the Bergara too as I do like the rifle overall except for the horrible accuracy and to use it as a backup/loaner hunting rifle but my faith in getting the rifle to shoot is now at zero and I’m done wasting my time and ammo with it.

I still want a second 7PRC and I’ll probably give the Browning Xbolt 2 a try whenever they start shipping.

Click to expand...

Maybe clean it real good and firelap it?

supercorndogs said:

Lapping square surfaces together. Ok.

Lapping not square surfaces together. Waste of time. It's just wearing a groove in the most flat peice.

I bet not to many of those remingtons you mentioned had great even lug contact. But I bet they still shot fine.

Click to expand...

My Tikka has almost no contact on one lug but it shoots great.
You buy mass produced rifles you get mass produced quality.

I dunno what to say.

The common theme here is the OP.

Either he is terribly unlucky --or--

He has a mild case of "the specials" (4 rifles suck, man after 2 I'd be NO MAS) --or--

He has an extra case of "the specials" in that he fubared 4 rifles --or--

Bergara screwed his wife and he's still pissed and making it personal.


I do see a wall of text. I see no proof.

"Some guy on the interwebs said if I buy a Tikka, my penis gets to be 14 inches and all the ladies will love me, its on the hide so it must be true"

Dik Piks or GTFO

ya ya ya ya read the OP. Like I said, some guy on the internet said.....

Makinchips208 said:

Found the video of the op when he got his rifle back and it wouldn’t shoot.

Click to expand...

That was great. But I’m scratching my head on why he tried to shove the remote up his ass through his boxers (~1 min mark).

DocRDS said:

"Some guy on the interwebs said if I buy a Tikka, my penis gets to be 14 inches and all the ladies will love me, its on the hide so it must be true"

Click to expand...

It's only 7 but all the ladies do love me.

redneckbmxer24 said:

Did you read the original post at all?

Click to expand...

I did. What did you do in the original post that mimics firelapping? Breaking a barrel in? You think that’s what firelapping does?