• Winner! Quick Shot Challenge: Caption This Sniper Fail Meme

    View thread

Barrel wear Vs velocity/weight/energy

PJV99

Private
Minuteman
Feb 24, 2023
13
2
Worcester
A simple question.

Is barrel wear just a function of velocity or is it based on energy?

At the moment in my 308 I'm shooting 168 ELD match heads at around 2700 ft/s

It's a new barrel and I would like to minimise wear ( don't we all!) I'm looking to improve performance at 1000 yds.

So should I increase velocity or increase bullet weight to minimise barrel wear.

All input greatfully received


Peter
 
The bigger factor is going to be how hot you get your barrel. The ambient temp will play a large roll in how quick it heats up along with your rate of fire.

So I think your last question is the wrong question with your goal of getting better at 1000. Shoot what does best and let your barrel cool after 5-10shots and don't worry about it. You'll spend significantly more on ammo or components and the effort involved than the $500-1k a new barrel cost.

The 168eld is a good balance between velocity and BC for 308. If you reload, the 200grain bullets have something to offer when loaded long.

Just get out there and shoot taking some notes on how you're doing!
 
Its got to be velocity dependent since the smaller the diameter bore and the faster the bullet is expelled is the fewer the shots before barrel is toast. 22 CM vs 308 WIN comparison for instance.
 
Bore diameter vs charge weight, pressure, velocity, powder type, and rate of fire. Bearing surface length of the bullet was also discussed recently, and some subscribe to that too.

A .308 barrel with 168gr bullet at 2,700 FPS is going to outlast almost every popular cartridge out there. I wouldn't even start to worry until you were at least 5K rounds in, and you'll probably get a lot more than that before it is shot out.

"Improve performance" contradicts "minimize wear". The harder you run something, the faster it will wear.

As said above; barrels are consumables. Enjoy the ride, and replace when necessary.
 
Within a given cartridge, in this case the 308 Win, the primary issue with barrel life will be how hot the barrel will be allowed to get as this is the primary cause of the material degradation in the throat. Since the amount of heat generation in a given firing is related to the mass of powder the lighter bullets tend to use more so the barrel will get hotter faster. Beyond that any other effects tend to be minor. But as others have noted double based powders have a higher energy content and hence can increase barrel wear especially when loaded for higher velocities than single based powders.

When looking at different calibers for the same base cartridge (243Win, 7mm-08, and 308 Win) the expansion ratio cartridge diameter versus versus bore diameter for smaller calibers require slower powders for maximum pressure and as a result the throat is exposed to high temperatures for longer periods of time resulting in higher metal temperature for the same cooling period. Also the higher projectile velocities result in more erosion of the damaged throat material. These are the overriding causes of shorter barrel life in 243 and 7mm-08 versus the 308. The 6.5 Creedmoor and and its smaller caliber siblings suffer the same fate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: supercorndogs
A simple question.

Is barrel wear just a function of velocity or is it based on energy?

At the moment in my 308 I'm shooting 168 ELD match heads at around 2700 ft/s

It's a new barrel and I would like to minimise wear ( don't we all!) I'm looking to improve performance at 1000 yds.

So should I increase velocity or increase bullet weight to minimise barrel wear.

All input greatfully received


Peter
As mentioned, HEAT is the big factor for barrel life. That heat is a factor of the powder you use. how much of it you use, rate of fire and ambient temperature you're shooting in affects how fast the heat will build up. This is the reason I have little temperature strips on my barrels just forward of the chamber to monitor the barrels temperature while I'm shooting and I stop shooting to cool off once they show 122°F. You can go hotter, but like you, I like to try and get as much use out of a barrel as possible (especially as prices are due to climb, given current economic environment).

There is a calculator that can help give you some idea how long your barrel life might be with your inputs: https://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/excel-formula-predicts-useful-barrel-life/

Here's some numbers to give you some ideas:
Barrel Life.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doom and RegionRat
Just to point out, there was some useful data shared during one of the Hornady videos where they shared some data from their gun tunnel testing.

Not many parametric bbl wear studies get published, so it was a unique opportunity to see their data to compare your data to some of their findings. Only a few organizations have a valid excuse to burn up this many barrels, and very few do it across a wide variety of calibers.

They didn't publish all the input parameters, but they did include some indications of the high/low values.

The dispersion in wear and fatigue data is typically huge, so it was helpful to see their spreads even if they didn't completely reveal all the parameters.

Their talk came under one of several episodes that were focused on barrel cleaning, however they spoke at length about their gun tunnel barrel wear.

So, keep or pitch, it was their Episode 160 Barrel Cleaning Part 3, What the data says. I will link it here in case folks want to try and screen grab the data when their favorite calibers are on the screens.

 
  • Like
Reactions: straightshooter1
Okay, waiting on some stuff to cook, so....
Happy Mother's Day to the better halves....

To be honest, you don't tend to see a contribution to a ballistics or weapons symposium or conference from an accuracy (cut rifle) barrel maker.

There are contributions from the larger corporate outfits who tend to make hammer forged or mass produced barrels for government and commercial use. Those kinds of barrels and shooting are different than the interests of folks in the context here.

This kind of study was/is generally done by government arsenals, large corporations, or university studies that were funded by one or both of those two.

The vast majority of the work is done for heavier weapon systems, but the general science generated by those studies was roughly applicable to the cut rifle barrels used for accuracy work.

Unfortunately, the most of that work is not free/public domain. The text books are crazy expensive, and the open symposium papers are behind pay walls. Occasionally, you can find some of the lesser work with a literature search when it comes out of a university thesis paper or open literature.

A simple question.

Is barrel wear just a function of velocity or is it based on energy?
You can say it is a simple question.... but that doesn't force Mother Nature to agree. It is not a simple question in reality. Not even close.

Energy in your question is assumed to either be the chemical energy you supply with the primer and propellant, or it can mean the effective muzzle energy that includes both the mass of the projectile and the velocity. So, that isn't going to help with your question till we drill down a little deeper.

In general
So should I increase velocity or increase bullet weight to minimise barrel wear.
You do the opposite on both. Increased velocity is worse, and so is increased projectile weight when the energy level is kept identical.

For example, if we took a 223 using a 55 grain bullet and ran the system at 1300 ft*lbs, and then ran the same system at the same energy but with a 77 grain projectile, the 77 will have higher wear.

Since we are this far down the rabbit hole, let me add that double base powders are worse, and shot tempo that makes a barrel hot is worse.

The simple answer isn't the one you want, but faster is worse than slower. Higher energy is worse than lower.

Anything more specific means we have to get more specific about the question context and details, but that spreadsheet macro that was shared above in post #12 is roughly correct and helps you understand how to compare parameters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doom
If you can afford the ammo to shoot out a 308 barrel then you won’t be worried about replacing it.

^ This is true OP. Even if you already have all the brass for life, you're still going to spend ~ $0.75 per .308 reload X 7,000 rounds on the barrel (conservative...could be 10K+) = $5,250.00.

A new barrel blank, chambered, threaded, and Cerakoted will only set you back about $1K... so less than 1/5 the cost of all the ammo you put through the last.
 
  • Like
Reactions: demarpaint
Case powder capacity, powder type, bore diameter, barrel material and time
between shots affect barrel wear.

Do you not drive your car because the tires will wear? Same principal, shoot the
thing and dont worry about it.
Sadly I admit I don't drive my humvee much because the tires don't last. roughly 1 thousand bucks a tire and you can get about 2K-3K miles out of a set.