Newbie looking to start reloading 6.5 creed

faylix said:

...and wife's jewelry - don't tell her)...

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Believe me, they have a magical way of knowing....

I will suggest you get to a club and find a mentor. While it isn't impossible to learn this all from reading and watching videos, it is well worth the share of recources and time spend to find a club that does the kind of shooting you like and go get adopted. They will bring you up to speed far faster than the internet, and without as much wasted time and money. That said....

A good paper manual from either a loading book or a dedicated text book is a good place to start. In fact, you will want both.

Most of the good loading manuals will have a section on basic reloading. If you are betting on the come, and think you will stick with this, then I would also say one(or both) of the second level books would be ones like the Zedicker volumes on making better ammo.
https://zedikerbooks.com/


There are also sticky/tacked threads on the forum about reloading.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/reloading-101-reloading-basics-for-the-new-reload.100/

Towards the top of the forum, you will also find threads tacked that dedicate to cartridges. You can find the ones you like, for example 6.5CM or 223.

faylix said:

What kind of press should I be looking at? I'm open to a buy once cry once situation and anything that makes it easier for a newb to work. Again primarily 6.5 specifically for my bolt gun.

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This is a crawl, walk, run analogy. Some kids are born to go fast, others take forever to learn to crawl. Your choices are vast but I still recommend rookies decide on how much volume ($$$) they will run before they select their second press, with their first still being any single stage press they like. Pistol and bottleneck have many things in common, however the bottleneck cases are a step up from straighwall pistol in terms of skills to run good brass prep.

Nothing wrong with starting a rookie on a straightwall pistol design like a 38 Special, and then jumping to 6.5CM, for example. It gives you a chance to get the feel for metal working in steps rather than from a fire hose. Get this under your belt, and then jump to a progressive, that is if you ever do. Many folks are happy with a single stage for life based on their volume.

faylix said:

What kind of dies?

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Any dies that you find are going to get you started. A set of full length for your 6.5 or 223 is never wrong, and bushing dies can come later if you want more controls.

Try not to get sucked into expensive marketing hype till you have the hang of this. I can clean a 1000 yard target using stone age dies, while someone next to me can't hit crap using dies that cost a factor of 5X more.

faylix said:

Is there a particular package of tools? Or will I be piecing together?

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Nothing wrong with catching a good quality kit on sale for a start. The better known brands all tend to have one.
I have gifted the ones from RCBS or Hornady to folks and it worked out. You can always upgrade and sell off parts you don't want later, but there is nothing wrong with spares and back-ups.

ETA: Make sure the wife is happy, the kids have been fed and have their school clothes.... and the rest will follow. We don't want your wife to have a dart board with a photo of SH on the face.... We can spend your money faster than you can make it here....
Welcome to the addiction.

The wife is covered and the Pup is covered!!! Major boxes taken care of.

As above find a local mentor to help & it will make things easier when questions come up.

Single Stage Press is the way to start. I still have 4 of them and use it the most. I don't mind going slow. Lee Classic, RCBS Rock Crusher, Lyman Classic and Foster Co-Ax. Foster Co-Ax is used all the time now. NO fiddling with the correct shell holder for any caliber. The jaws do it all. Foster Co-Ax on sale 440

Any Hornady, RCBS or Lee set of full length dies will do what you need them to do. Buy a pack of the Foster Rings to set them up.

Powder scale. This is where you can get REAL wild or very basic and simple. A Basic RCBS or Lee powder drop and a simple balance beam RCBS or Lee will do the trick. Next step RCBS Match Master, Lyman Digital would be the next step. Look at purchasing that from Amazon and buying the extended warranty. Or the STUPID SUPER high end Super Trickler. This is the highest of the high and you are RUNNING wide open.

Primer Seating. Lee or RCBS hand priming tool will do the trick and work for hundreds of years. The Co-Ax press you can also seat primers, but I have not used it or looked into it. On an RCBS or a lee you can all so a press primer seating. I never used that feature as I did brass prep after resizing.

Brass prep. a reloading center that does it all is a nice way to do it. all powered on and running as the same time. Lyman is what I have. You can also do it all with hand tools and they are nice to have anyways.

Case lube. Imperial sizing wax is the way to go.

Case trimming. You can do this with Lee quick trim dies and a hand turn cutter or a power trimmer like the Lyman that uses the collets for casings. I have both and use the Lyman power trim.

Then you need small things. Reloading trays and such to hold your brass. any of them will do the trick. I have wooden ones, plastic ones and 3D printed ones. All hold casings the same way.

I believe I just spent quite a bit of your money and you will enjoy it. I will also add this. Amazon and a prime CC for 12 month 0% makes some of those purchases easy and the option to buy some extended warranties. I truly believe in supporting your local stores as they will help you more than Amazon ever will. If they don't sell it locally I resort to amazon.

Im going to throw a couple wrinkles in here...

Pick the press that makes sense to you. The Co-ax is a fine option, but I prefer the MEC because of the completely open front and being able to be run left handed even though Im right handed. An O style press works too, just isnt quite as convenient to work in. A turret can be helpful if you want to setup all the dies and just go from process to process without swapping dies. A Dillon 550 can be a great option and will significantly increase your loading speed, especially if you want to crank out some 223 with a ball powder, and it can be treated like a single stage starting out. I cant say I recommend starting with a progressive press, you can make alot of bad ammo in a hurry if youre not doing something right.

For priming I prefer the RCBS bench primer. Its fast and easy. For hand primer I prefer the Frankfort as it doesnt tear up my hands and has plenty of leverage. On press priming kind of sucks unless it with a progressive.

Dies? Its all up to you. Even the cheap Lee dies can make accurate ammo. The higher end stuff? You are just paying for features. I have dies of every color, but I prefer Hornady as they fit a certain price point, quality and feature point. I really like the seaters with the guide sleeve. One point to mention? I prefer a mandrel die to set neck tension vs using an expander ball. I have the Sinclair version which works fine, but the sky is the limit on these. Lyman M-dies are really nice to have when seating 223 cal flat base bullets, just have to give them a light crimp with something like a Lee FCD to close the flare. Ill throw in a mention of shell holders here too. Just buy the Hornady ones. Less money, they work fine.

Powder handling? I would buy a manual scale as a backup to verify against anything else. Only scale I will say NOT to buy, is the Lee as its a PITA. Buy a nice heavy bottom trickler. A rotary drop will get you most of the way there, and trickle up with the trickler. Electronic powder drops can be a great thing, but you get what you pay for. The RCBS ones are the better of the less spendy options, and even cheaper if you can swing a vet discount.

Case prep is the devil, but the devil is in the details. There are tons of electric trimmers out there that base their trim length on the shoulder. Just need to choose one. Or just use an old school hand crank, for about 200 cases, and you realize it sucks. I still use a hand trimmer, but only for calibers I load maybe 50-100 rounds a year. Otherwise I use a Giraud or a RT1500. The Lyman hand chamfer/deburr tool is one of the better cheap ones out there, but that will get old fast. Pick the prep center of your choice. I prefer the Lyman because it does have 5 stations and comes with every tool you might need. I do think its a good idea to have both on hand in this case. If you need to get into alot of crimp removal with mil brass, I like the RCBS crimp cutter.

I do recommend you buy 2 calipers. Get a 6" for general use, but buy an 8" because if you really want to chase down the rabbit hole with a comparator, they work better/easier on the 8". I have used the iGaging ones for years with no issues.

Edit: Because I forgot something major after seeing C130s post. Case cleaning. Dont over think it. Dry tumbling with walnut is likely good enough. Even the cheap tumbler from Horrible Fraught can get it done. Your brass doesnt need to be perfect. If you do feel the need to go with wet tumbling, dont feel like you need to use tumbling media to get the brass clean. I do wet tumble, but I dont use the media unless its some pretty gnarly brass thats really dirty and green. Ive found no media, some Dawn and Lemishine work good enough. My self built tumbler is large enough to do 2000 pieces of 9mm at a crack, however for most the FART is the best option. As far as shiny? I really dont care about shiny and I only run for about an hour. I just want it clean and dust free, shiny is a side effect.

That covers the major stuff. There is always more crap to buy. Loading blocks, lock rings, primer tube fillers, comparators, annealer, nicer scales, the list never ends. I base alot of my purchases on what allows me to get done faster without cutting corners because ultimately for me, my time is limited. So I use good equipment and fast but accurate methods to "buy" my time back.

I just started reloading 6.5cm and had never reloaded before. My first reloads were two weeks ago and I've shot them twice trying to figure out the best load combination. I watched a lot of YouTube videos and got quite a bit of help here on Snipers Hide but had zero help otherwise.

I bought a Triebel three die set here on Snipers Hide though I found out afterwards the only US distributor stopped selling them which I'm sure is why the guy sold three or 4 sets of them. I'm not too happy about that but guess it's my fault. I went to their website and saw they sold them but they aren't restocking anything else. They are great, well made, dies but I'm trying to sell them and go all Short Action Customs. I'm getting single digit SD's and nice grouping so I'm pretty happy so far. But, I know I've still got quite a bit to learn.

My components are:
Area 419 press
Giraud trimmer
RCBS auto priming tool
A&D FX-120 scale with autototrickler
Triebel full length sizing die
SAC seating die.
Lyman vibratory tumbler.

The Giraud trimmer is great and saves a lot of time but I've heard the Henderson is great also but a little more expensive. You can get in to reloading with cheaper components than I bought but time savings was also a big part of my decision.

Brownell’s has 15% off and if you are a veteran that’s on top of an already 10% off. You can get the Area 419 M die for $350 shipped which is a big savings over ordering it from Area 419. I just bought bullets, primers, and a concentricity gauge from Brownells with their sale. I don’t think the concentricity gauge is a necessity but I wanted one for my own satisfaction or quite possibly dissatisfaction.

I’m still trying to decide on the Area 419 M sizing die or the Short Action Customs sizing die. I like some features of both dies but slightly leaning towards SAC.

Powder Valley had free hazmat shipping, but sure it’s still going on.

Creedmoore Sports also had Berger bullets on sale which I bought 500 a week or so ago. I’m using the Berger Hybrid Target, not sure which are the best but I think I really like these so far.

Short Action Customs offers a 5% veteran discount or a 10% PRS member discount. The PRS membership is pretty cheap and offers some decent discounts

faylix said:

I'd like to start with the major things being good enough to grow into, but I'm happy to replace lesser stuff with better stuff as I learn more (and recover from the financial set back!)

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I would not recommend starting with a Dillon. Start with a high-quality single-stage or turreted press and you will likely keep using it for a long time. Learn by doing things one step at a time, then decide where to go from there based on your needs and knowledge at the time.

I started with a Rock Chucker single-stage, upgraded to a Redding T-7 and used it for a very long time, then recently moved back to a single-stage (SAC Nexus), which I love.

My process nets highly consistent ammo - and I couldn't effectively do the same process on a progressive.

I'd recommend starting with one of:



The turrets allow you to load multiple calibers off of a single turret - and you can get additional turrets for more. A solidly made turret press will produce very solid ammo and give you a lot of versatility.

Dies:
Just about any name brand will work. That said, I'm a fan of Whidden and LE Wilson, and not a fan of Hornady.

Scale:
No matter where you start, if you end up getting serious about your reloading, you'll end up with an A&D FX120i and likely some form of autotrickler. Throughout my reloading journey, I've spent more on all the scales leading up to getting the FX120i/autotrickler than I did on the system itself. Don't leave out a mandrel die.

faylix said:

@Kaldor thank you very much for your experience. The guy who I'm learning from also has a Dillion 550 press and I'm considering getting the same one just to make things easier.

@C130 that shopping list is exactly what I'm looking for, thanks boss. Understanding the why of each type and thing is going to take ages I expect, but having a solid list to start from is gold!

Thank you so much everyone for your continued knowledge and support. I really appreciate it! For now I'll probably stick to 223/556 and 6.5. I've managed to trim my collection to mostly those calibers and they are the ones that I spend the most on.

I'm going to start my shopping list and try to find items used in the buy / sell section, or at least good deals.

Speaking of which - anyone see some memorial day savings I should look at?

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Took a look at the Dillion 550C kit they offer. First thing I noticed they don't have a 6.5 kit - the only thing that comes close is a 308.

Say I purchase this with the 223/556 kit - would I just need a set of 6.5 reloading dies? What kind of value am I looking at here? I mean like kit price vs piecing it together myself?

I'd like to start with the major things being good enough to grow into, but I'm happy to replace lesser stuff with better stuff as I learn more (and recover from the financial set back!)

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Correct, you would use the 308 sized conversion kit for the 550 as the case is the same at the base. Kit is 20130 if Im seeing it right. Also 20127 is the kit for 223. 20128 is for 9mm. Be sure to verify. Its always helpful when you can 1 for 1 the instructions from your mentor. The 550 can be used as a glorified single stage as well as it is manually operated. The real upside on the 550 is the ability to load semi-progressively if you need to load up some blaster ammo for an AR or a pistol. I would not use the powder measure on the 550 for extruded powders, and just replace it is with a down and dirty simple powder thru funnel like the Hornady Powder Funnel Die that you just run the press up and drop the powder directly into the case.

Buy what you want for dies. You can absolutely swing for the fences with a crazy expensive set of dies, but the reality of it is only about .05% of shooters can tell the difference and even then they will tell you its a wash. This is why I use Hornady dies, mostly because I have found them to be tight enough to size the base enough, and the sliding seater sleeve is a lifesaver IMHO. Redding would probably be my second choice, and I do have them for a couple of calibers. Dont mess around with bushing dies IMHO. They are useful in a few situations, but largely just make everything more complicated. Nothing wrong with really any brand as I said before. Buy the features you want, dont get caught up in the "it must be the best because it costs the most" mindset. Start less expensive and change your process if you find a need. If you really want to chase the most accurate, you should be using an arbor press and the correct dies for that press. I cannot stress enough how much of a game changer using a mandrel to set neck size is over an expander ball. It does work your brass a good deal less. And being that you are using a multi station press, its pretty easy to work it into your rotation. Decap on 1, size on 2, mandrel on 3.

I run two presses. A Dillon 550 for all my USPSA pistol shooting needs (9mm, .40SW, .45acp) as well as bulk .223 ammo for 2-gun matches (rough guess, about 10K per year). For my 6GT, 6.5CM, and longer range .223 I use an old Hornady Single Stage I bought my senior year in college back in the early 90’s and it’s still turning out good ammo (<1/2 MOA and single digit SDs).

There’s better presses out there for sure, but my point being, a simple single stage press is perfectly serviceable provided you also subscribe to a few other practices. I sometimes covet getting a more modern press, but when I look at my groups or chrono data, I think I’d rather spend the money on components than upgrading my equipment.

Since you mentioned 6.5CM, this is what I use for brass prep:
Mighty Armory Universal Decap die
Dillon tumbler w/ corn cob media (tumble after decapping to clean the cases and primer pocket)
EZ Annealer (anneal each time before sizing)
Imperial case wax before sizing
Forster full length bushing die (.289” bushing and bump the shoulder back about 1.5 to 2 thousandths)
Tumble brass for about 15-20 mins to remove the wax
Forster hand crank trimmer (as needed)
Lyman hand crank chamfer and debur (each time, especially after trimming)
21st Century mandrel die with a .2625” mandrel (to set the right neck tension, use graphite dry lube)
Prime on the Hornady press (CCI 400 SRP)

For throwing powder and seating bullets:
Hornady powder measurer that came with the Hornady press
Gem Pro digital scale that goes to .00 gr
Frankfort Arsenal hand trickler
Hornady seating die with the micrometer depth adjuster
*compared to some of the electronic powder measurers w/ built in scales and electronic tricklers, my process is laughably old school, but it works and is quite a bit cheaper.

Some additional tools:
Hornady Case Comparator for measuring headspace and CBTO
Hornady OAL gauge to measure the distance to the lands for how much “jump” your bullet does before it hits the lands
Digital micrometer (I’ve had several over the years but the Mitutoyo is the one I use now)

Over the years my reloading process has evolved a little, and probably the biggest benefit I saw in accuracy and consistency was when I started using a bushing sizing die (with the expander ball removed) and a mandrel to set a more consistent neck tension. Yeah, it’s an extra step, but the results speak for themselves.

I also used to anneal my cases using a 12mm socket in a drill over a propane torch. However the EZ Annealer is not too expensive and much easier (and consistent) to use.

I will also say, buying brand new quality brass makes a big difference. With my old rifle I was using Hornady brass from factory ammo I saved or acquired from non-reloading friends. It’s fine for the first few reloadings but eventually the inconsistencies drove me nuts. Now I’m using Peterson SRP brass and my OCD is much happier.

We can talk about 9mm and .223 in another post if you’re interested.