NICS checks out in free states

Fig · Sunday at 2:52 PM

No more NICs checks for CCW in free states!

Brady Permit Chart | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (18 U.S.C. § 922(t)) requires federal firearms licensees (FFLs) to initiate a National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) background check prior to transferring a firearm to an unlicensed person. However, the Brady law includes an exception...

www.atf.gov

Maggot · Sunday at 3:00 PM

Oklahoma is one. After I got my CCW I they never ran the background check, just stuck the paperwork in the file.

lash · Sunday at 3:02 PM

Fig said:
No more NICs checks for CCW in free states!

Brady Permit Chart | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (18 U.S.C. § 922(t)) requires federal firearms licensees (FFLs) to initiate a National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) background check prior to transferring a firearm to an unlicensed person. However, the Brady law includes an exception...

www.atf.gov

It’s interesting that Florida’s CWP does not qualify, even though we have to submit fingerprints and photographs and submit to a state background check.

Hecouldgoalltheway · Sunday at 3:12 PM

When the page opened, a box popped up that allowed you to sign up for emails from the ATF. I've gone back 5 times entering the email addresses of people who pissed me off in the last couple of years.

Best served cold bitches..

fdkay · Sunday at 4:00 PM

Fig said:
No more NICs checks for CCW in free states!

Brady Permit Chart | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (18 U.S.C. § 922(t)) requires federal firearms licensees (FFLs) to initiate a National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) background check prior to transferring a firearm to an unlicensed person. However, the Brady law includes an exception...

www.atf.gov

Welcome to 15 years ago

Fig · Sunday at 6:21 PM

Too true, but at least these Deamonrat ATF rules, trying to make us all felons, are being rolled back.

Long way to go, but at least the Obama/Biden damage is being quickly undone.

375fan · Sunday at 6:41 PM

Maggot said:
Oklahoma is one. After I got my CCW I they never ran the background check, just stuck the paperwork in the file.

Ohio is same way .

sgtsmmiii · Sunday at 11:22 PM

lash said:
It’s interesting that Florida’s CWP does not qualify, even though we have to submit fingerprints and photographs and submit to a state background check.

We were told that it was because those states that ran criminal history checks every month to insure that CC holders did not have a disqualifying arrest or event.
Sounds legit............

.

lash · Monday at 8:22 AM

sgtsmmiii said:
We were told that it was because those states that ran criminal history checks every month to insure that CC holders did not have a disqualifying arrest or event.
Sounds legit.............

So they run a criminal history check on everyone in the state that carries a concealed license every month? That sound unbelievable to me. Yes, that does meet the requirements of 18 U.S.C. § 922(t)(3)(A). But, it sounds like an over application of the exception clause, which is:

the permit must allow the nonlicensee to possess or acquire a firearm;
the permit must have been issued not more than five years earlier by the state in which the transfer is to take place; and
state law must provide that the permit was to be issued only after an authorized government official verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that it would be a violation of the law for the nonlicensee to possess a firearm.

It says nothing about continuous or monthly verifications. Only that the permit must be no older than five years.

Maybe that’s why Florida doesn’t qualify. They issue theirs every 7 years. However, that should technically still be no reason for disqualification. There’s an issue date and a renewal date on the license. Is math that hard?

Fx51LP308 · Monday at 8:47 AM

lash said:
So they run a criminal history check on everyone in the state that carries a concealed license every month? That sound unbelievable to me. Yes, that does meet the requirements of 18 U.S.C. § 922(t)(3)(A). But, it sounds like an over application of the exception clause, which is:

So it would seem. Are you saying that this criminal check is done "automatically" every month for all CWFL holders. or only when some action triggers it (i.e. FFL Delivery or CWFL renewal)?

lash said:
Maybe that’s why Florida doesn’t qualify. They issue theirs every 7 years. However, that should technically still be no reason for disqualification. There’s an issue date and a renewal date on the license. Is math that hard?

Do you mean "Driver's License" of CWFL when you say "7 year renewal?" MY DL yes is a 7 year renewal but CWFL is only 5.

All that aside, I am also wondering if the fact that Florida, being a POC state, might trigger these additional checks, That is, 4473 checks have to go first through the FDLE who then contact the FBI on behalf of the FFL. My former state (PRNJ) does the same thing. The 4473 check has to go through the NJSP "Firearms Unit" before they contact the FBI NICS.

Still, it would seem a bit much.

chevy_man · Monday at 8:58 AM

Here they write the CC license number in the box and file it. Only reason to bother getting one.

lash · Monday at 9:02 AM

Fx51LP308 said:
Are you saying that this criminal check is done "automatically" every month for all CWFL holders. or only when some action triggers it (i.e. FFL Delivery or CWFL renewal)?

I am not saying anything. I’m asking. @sgtsmmiii brought that up. I don’t know.

Fx51LP308 said:
Do you mean "Driver's License" of CWFL when you say "7 year renewal?" MY DL yes is a 7 year renewal but CWFL is only 5.

Of course I mean my CWFL. Which is a seven year renewal. I renewed mine last year and it expires in 2031. Ive got it setting right here in front of me.

You better check yours.

I was wrong though when I said it has both date of issue and date of expiration on it. Unlike your DL, it only has the date of expiration on it.

Fx51LP308 · Monday at 10:40 AM

lash said:
I am not saying anything. I’m asking. @sgtsmmiii brought that up. I don’t know.

Of course I mean my CWFL. Which is a seven year renewal. I renewed mine last year and it expires in 2031. Ive got it setting right here in front of me.

You better check yours.

Well, mine expires in 2028. And, like you say, there is no issue date. Although I do recall now that my initial FL CWFL was issued in 2014 while I was still living in the PRNJ. That would have expired in 2021. Which would make my most recent renewal expire 2028, as mentioned.... 7 year cycle.

I stand corrected.

My Utah permit definitely is 5 years. I just renewed it in 2024 and it expires 2029.

Slash0311 · Monday at 11:01 AM

In Indiana, I have a lifetime permit. Once its issued more than 5 years, it will still be valid but they'd still run the check.

Of course that's if I understand the write-up.

Malum Prohibitum · Monday at 11:05 AM

lash said:
the permit must be no older than five years.

Maybe that’s why Florida doesn’t qualify. They issue theirs every 7 years. However, that should technically still be no reason for disqualification. There’s an issue date and a renewal date on the license. Is math that hard?

This is the only correct answer.

sloporsche · Monday at 11:20 AM

lash said:
I am not saying anything. I’m asking. @sgtsmmiii brought that up. I don’t know.

Of course I mean my CWFL. Which is a seven year renewal. I renewed mine last year and it expires in 2031. Ive got it setting right here in front of me.

You better check yours.

I was wrong though when I said it has both date of issue and date of expiration on it. Unlike your DL, it only has the date of expiration on it.

mine too ....expires 12/15/2030 on the card ,i got it 12/23/2023 which is not on the card

sloporsche · Monday at 11:25 AM

lash said:
It’s interesting that Florida’s CWP does not qualify, even though we have to submit fingerprints and photographs and submit to a state background check.

We [florida CCP] are still leaving with our handgun purchase that day .....having moved from NJ to fla i was pleasantly shocked

rtB · Monday at 11:36 AM

AZ has been like this for years. Show CCW and DL, leave.
Still fill out 4473, but no call.

doubloon · Monday at 11:41 AM

lash said:
It’s interesting that Florida’s CWP does not qualify, even though we have to submit fingerprints and photographs and submit to a state background check.

Write your senator, it's determined by state law I believe.

Texas has also not required a NICS for license holders since forever, I'm guessing fig posted this because of some recent change I'm not aware of.

Florida is a POC state

file:///Users/louis/Downloads/nics-participation-map-020124.pdf

lash said:
So they run a criminal history check on everyone in the state that carries a concealed license every month?

I don't *think* it works that way here in Texas. AFAIK it's tied to violations and convictions and whether or not the court mandates a suspension or revocation. It's an event driven driven process not a polling process. But no NICS check would be required for this, the offender has a license and it gets revoked/suspended.

Access to NICS is pretty regulated. Nationwide, FFLs aren't supposed to access NICS without an application for transfer, no "pre-checks" are supposed to happen, no paper, no checky. Assuming the state isn't one that has a designated point of contact for NICS checks. If a state doesn't have a POC then access to NICS is by FFLs through the FBI, AFAIK no "direct" access. But I'm not an FFL so I could easily be wrong.

Some states have a point of contact designated by the state that acts as an intermediary between FFL and FBI and processes NICS checks for the FFLs. These POCs get access to NICS through a network connection and I *think* they submit the request directly bypassing the FBI but they're supposed to provide a "purpose code". Below are the only purpose codes I'm aware of. I don't know if a state POC can run a NICS for willy nilly any reason. Depending on the state the number of checks for every license holder would range between <200 to >1M.

Purpose.• Purpose
Code C: Used by criminal justice agencies and child protective services for official duties in connection with the administration of criminal justice and investigations•
Purpose Code J: Used by criminal justice agencies to run background checks for criminal justice agency employment•
Purpose Code D: Used by civil courts in the investigation of domestic violence/stalking only•
Purpose Code H: Used by criminal justice agencies when providing a Yes or No to a housing agency• Purpose
Code X: Used by Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) when child placement is necessary under exigent circumstances

lash · Monday at 12:03 PM

sloporsche said:
We [florida CCP] are still leaving with our handgun purchase that day .....having moved from NJ to fla i was pleasantly shocked

True.

doubloon said:
Write your senator, it's determined by state law I believe.

Texas has also not required a NICS for license holders since forever, I'm guessing fig posted this because of some recent change I'm not aware of.

Florida is a POC state

file:///Users/louis/Downloads/nics-participation-map-020124.pdf

View attachment 8695016

I don't *think* it works that way here in Texas. AFAIK it's tied to violations and convictions and whether or not the court mandates a suspension or revocation. It's an event driven driven process not a polling process. But no NICS check would be required for this, the offender has a license and it gets revoked/suspended.

Access to NICS is pretty regulated. Nationwide, FFLs aren't supposed to access NICS without an application for transfer, no "pre-checks" are supposed to happen, no paper, no checky. Assuming the state isn't one that has a designated point of contact for NICS checks. If a state doesn't have a POC then access to NICS is by FFLs through the FBI, AFAIK no "direct" access. But I'm not an FFL so I could easily be wrong.

Some states have a point of contact designated by the state that acts as an intermediary between FFL and FBI and processes NICS checks for the FFLs. These POCs get access to NICS through a network connection and I *think* they submit the request directly bypassing the FBI but they're supposed to provide a "purpose code". Below are the only purpose codes I'm aware of. I don't know if a state POC can run a NICS for willy nilly any reason. Depending on the state the number of checks for every license holder would range between <200 to >1M.

Purpose.• Purpose
Code C: Used by criminal justice agencies and child protective services for official duties in connection with the administration of criminal justice and investigations•
Purpose Code J: Used by criminal justice agencies to run background checks for criminal justice agency employment•
Purpose Code D: Used by civil courts in the investigation of domestic violence/stalking only•
Purpose Code H: Used by criminal justice agencies when providing a Yes or No to a housing agency• Purpose
Code X: Used by Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) when child placement is necessary under exigent circumstances

Some good information. Thanks.

Ronws · Monday at 12:43 PM

In Texas, I have an LTC (license carry concealed or open.) So, that means that when I transfer an item, presenting my LTC is all it takes and doesn't require an additional NICS check.

And that is the main reason I keep it renewed.

mi650 · Monday at 12:53 PM

We used to have this here, and for some reason just got it back. FATF took it away when weed was legalized in 2018, I think.

No idea why they put us back on the gtg list, but I'm not complaining.

Marinevet1 · Monday at 5:42 PM

In Kansas if you have a state carry permit, you fill out the 4473, but it doesn't get called in.............pay your money, walk out with the firearm.............been this way for years.

Redheeler · Monday at 6:36 PM

Marinevet1 said:
In Kansas if you have a state carry permit, you fill out the 4473, but it doesn't get called in.............pay your money, walk out with the firearm.............been this way for years.

I kid the LGS that I get things at that they need to get a “that’s easy” button for every time someone with a CCP buys a weapon. Just fill out the 4473, pay your money, and walk out.
I would actually buy them one if you didn’t have to fill out the 4473.

jpjulian · Monday at 8:44 PM

In Illinois, yeah I know, we have to have a Firearms Owners Identification Card, foid, to purchase or possess a firearm or ammunition. Now we even have to go through a background check to purchase ammunition, any and all ammunition! The foid is run by the state daily for any disqualifying offenses and now is run again not just for firearms purchases but ammunition also. Total BS. This will do absolutely nothing to reduce crime. No wonder internet sites don't want to ship to Illinois.

mosin46 · Monday at 10:28 PM

lash said:
I am not saying anything. I’m asking. @sgtsmmiii brought that up. I don’t know.

Of course I mean my CWFL. Which is a seven year renewal. I renewed mine last year and it expires in 2031. Ive got it setting right here in front of me.

You better check yours.

I was wrong though when I said it has both date of issue and date of expiration on it. Unlike your DL, it only has the date of expiration on it.

odd. both of mine from last year go til '32. doesn't matter. if i am functional then,will renew. if not,well....

sandhiller · Wednesday at 12:06 PM

That map and the internet can be a little gray.
In my state, a Nebraska Concealed Handgun Permit or a Nebraska Firearm Purchase Certificate is required to purchase a handgun.
Either of these permits will work in lieu of a NICS check for a long gun.
If no permit is presented then I run them through NICS.
Really haven't had much trouble with NICS and only one customer I can remember that was delayed.
Usually 5 to 10 minutes and they come back with "proceed"
I tell them SS# is optional but will help with a quicker approval and most fill it in.
I haven't had anyone use a UPIN yet.

doubloon · 2025-05-29T09:45:03-0400

sandhiller said:
Either of these permits will work in lieu of a NICS check for a long gun.

Weird that the map says FFLs contact FBI for long guns in NE ... the data could be out of date. The document at the link has a date of Feb. 1 2024 on it.

I find the whole idea of bypass for a handgun but check for a long gun just plain weird.

sandhiller · 2025-05-29T15:58:01-0400

doubloon said:
Weird that the map says FFLs contact FBI for long guns in NE ... the data could be out of date. The document at the link has a date of Feb. 1 2024 on it.

I find the whole idea of bypass for a handgun but check for a long gun just plain weird.

I believe, the way it reads, it is just plain wrong or misleading at the very least

Also, different searches (even with the NSP) brought up the same info which makes you think you have to run NICS for long gun transfer (all stated "our information may be wrong"................... Huh???)

They all had pretty much the same language

NEBRASKA IS A PARTIAL POINT-OF-CONTACT STATE, MEANING FFLS CONTACT THE FBI FOR LONG GUN BACKGROUND CHECKS, WHILE A STATE ISSUED HANDGUN PERMIT IS USED FOR HANDGUN BACKGROUND CHECKS.

I called the BATF office in Omaha and asked an agent there for clarification just in case something had changed.
She said "the map/internet search is wrong" and "If a customer presents you with a current and valid NCHP or NFPC you do not have to run a NICS check for transfer of a long gun"

There is a place on 4473's to put that information on why a NICS check was not required

So, once again, take what you read on the internet with a grain of salt and don't bet your livelihood on it.

doubloon · 2025-05-29T16:03:08-0400

sandhiller said:
I called the BATF office

Tangled web indeed ... but it's on the web so at least that's consistent.

Brady State Lists | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

States/Territories in which the FBI Conducts NICS Checks for All Firearms Transactions Alabama Alaska American Samoa Arizona Arkansas Delaware D.C. Georgia Guam Idaho Indiana Indiana Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maine Massachusetts Michigan Minnesota Mississippi Missouri Montana New Mexico North...

www.atf.gov

Maryland, Wisconsin and New Hampshire are all listed the same way as Nebraska on the ATF web site.

www.atf.gov:
States that Act as a Partial Point of Contact (POC) for NICS Checks

Nebraska
Permit POC for handguns
FBI – long guns

sandhiller · 2025-05-29T16:33:46-0400

doubloon said:
Tangled web indeed ... but it's on the web so at least that's consistent.

Brady State Lists | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

States/Territories in which the FBI Conducts NICS Checks for All Firearms Transactions Alabama Alaska American Samoa Arizona Arkansas Delaware D.C. Georgia Guam Idaho Indiana Indiana Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maine Massachusetts Michigan Minnesota Mississippi Missouri Montana New Mexico North...

www.atf.gov

Maryland, Wisconsin and New Hampshire are all liste the same way as Nebraska on the ATF web site.

My only thought on this is
NICS for long gun transfers
State issued permit (required) for handgun transfers
They just left out the "handgun permit also works for long guns".
Why, I do not know because it would be awful easy to add long gun after handgun.
Because it is not written that way, I have made damn sure I got clarification from different agents over the years.
It would be nice to have it in writing but until then, I am taking the word of the agents I asked.

doubloon · 2025-05-29T16:45:17-0400

sandhiller said:
It would be nice to have it in writing but until then

I get it. I have no idea how it actually works in NE since I'm in TX. I'd have to go through the process myself to figure it out. But even that isn't a guarantee because I've had people tell me they didn't fill out a 4473 when they picked up a suppressor before.

sandhiller · 2025-05-29T16:54:47-0400

doubloon said:
I get it. I have no idea how it actually works in NE since I'm in TX. I'd have to go through the process myself to figure it out. But even that isn't a guarantee because I've had people tell me they didn't fill out a 4473 when they picked up a suppressor before.

That is odd as we fill out a 4473 for suppressors here.
Would think that's a Fed not a State thing
But I'm no expert either.

Too much gray for me.
I like to have something in official writing instead of "well, he/she said"
I did document the call with name number date etc. but that's the best I got.

Fig · 2025-05-29T17:08:15-0400

sandhiller said:
I believe, the way it reads, it is just plain wrong or misleading at the very least

Also, different searches (even with the NSP) brought up the same info which makes you think you have to run NICS for long gun transfer (all stated "our information may be wrong"................... Huh???)

They all had pretty much the same language

NEBRASKA IS A PARTIAL POINT-OF-CONTACT STATE, MEANING FFLS CONTACT THE FBI FOR LONG GUN BACKGROUND CHECKS, WHILE A STATE ISSUED HANDGUN PERMIT IS USED FOR HANDGUN BACKGROUND CHECKS.

I called the BATF office in Omaha and asked an agent there for clarification just in case something had changed.
She said "the map/internet search is wrong" and "If a customer presents you with a current and valid NCHP or NFPC you do not have to run a NICS check for transfer of a long gun"

There is a place on 4473's to put that information on why a NICS check was not required

So, once again, take what you read on the internet with a grain of salt and don't bet your livelihood on it.

How are you supposed to do that when the site literally IS the www.atf.gov? Really? Really? They are putting up false information on the official website of the ATF? Just how fucked up and bush league does it get with these fucking clowns?

lash · 2025-05-29T17:10:22-0400

Isn’t it great to have ambiguous regulations that can be interpreted multiple ways? Unnecessary enforcement through fear of the unknown.

sandhiller · 2025-05-30T02:59:27-0400

Fig said:
How are you supposed to do that when the site literally IS the www.atf.gov? Really? Really? They are putting up false information on the official website of the ATF? Just how fucked up and bush league does it get with these fucking clowns?

From www.atf.gov. Brady Permit Chart, the use of "firearm" to me includes both handgun and long gun in the exception to a NICS check with proper state issued permit.

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (18 U.S.C. § 922(t)) requires federal firearms licensees (FFLs) to initiate a National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) background check prior to transferring a firearm to an unlicensed person. However, the Brady law includes an exception to the NICS requirement when the transferee presents to a licensee certain state permits to possess, carry, or acquire firearms. A permit may be used as an alternative to a NICS background check provided the permit complies with 18 U.S.C. § 922(t)(3)(A

It is is still not 100% correct as it lists Nebraska's Certificate to Purchase a Handgun when it is now a Firearm Purchase Certificate

Language matters, but evidently not to everybody. And I have no answer as to why everyone can't get on the same page

Wonder how many ATF directors there have been in the 44 years I have held my license and how many more there will be before I give it up.

I'm moving on and will continue to do business as I have been doing.

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