Airguns Beating Rimfires

jps2486

jps2486

Sergeant of the Hide
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Nov 25, 2020
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Onalaska, WI
#1
The development of airguns and projectiles are to the point now that airguns are beating rimfires in many competitions. The Karma Red Panda, FX Impact, Evol and Brocock Sonoran are phenominal guns and will outshoot rimfires regularly. What's the point of buying a custom rimfire and spending $3-4000 and maybe, maybe it will shoot provided you test hundreds of dollars worth of ammo to find the right lot number.
 
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#2
I never had the opportunity to shoot a real precision air rifle until it was featured on a stage at a sniper match I attended. I have to admit, it was pretty fun to shoot and surprisingly accurate at 50 yards. I can see myself getting one soon. Can’t beat getting good practice in a small amount of space.

The Miles to Matches podcast did a good episode on air rifles (EP 150).
 
#4
jps2486 said:
The development of airguns and projectiles are to the point now that airguns are beating rimfires in many competitions. The Karma Red Panda, FX Impact, Evol and Brocock Sonoran are phenominal guns and will outshoot rimfires regularly. What's the point of buying a custom rimfire and spending $3-4000 and maybe, maybe it will shoot provided you test hundreds of dollars worth of ammo to find the right lot number.
Click to expand...
What types of competitions?
 
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#6
It looks like 11 PRS airgun competitors total in the U.S. Not more than one in any single state.

1755295166516.png
 
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#8
ma smith said:
Lets not forget that 22lrs are just fun to shoot
and putting up with their zany behaviour....
Lets us say...builds character...:LOL::ROFLMAO::love:
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Man if you think 22rf's are zany then just own a pcp air rifle for a while and you'll learn what finicky really is. Though some pcp's are just about trouble free and others can be a PITA.

It's mostly the match 22rf ammo cost that drove me away from shooting mine more often but also I can shoot the pcp's on my property.

One pcp I have I swage 4400, 22 cal, 42gr, slugs for $165 and it'll outshoot my Anschutz 22rf at 50Y using match ammo. I shot my best 100Y group with this air rifle slug gun vs my Anschutz.
 
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#9
lash said:
It looks like 11 PRS airgun competitors total in the U.S. Not more than one in any single state.

View attachment 8747969
Click to expand...
I doubt popularity of pcp's in PRS or NRL will ever catch up to that of rimfire.

What I'd really like to see is how well the very best 22rf shooters in these sports would do with a well tuned good running pcp vs there own 22rf in a bigger match.
 
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#11
steve123 said:
Man if you think 22rf's are zany then just own a pcp air rifle for a while and you'll learn what finicky really is. Though some pcp's are just about trouble free and others can be a PITA.

It's mostly the match 22rf ammo cost that drove me away from shooting mine more often but also I can shoot the pcp's on my property.

One pcp I have I swage 4400, 22 cal, 42gr, slugs for $165 and it'll outshoot my Anschutz 22rf at 50Y using match ammo. I shot my best 100Y group with this air rifle slug gun vs my Anschutz.
Click to expand...
What is this particular rifle, please?
 
#12
jps2486 said:
What is this particular rifle, please?
Click to expand...
It's my 4 year old Thomas HPX custom and set up for 65-ish fpe.
This is when it's in it's benchrest configuration.
20231204_111858.jpg

This in it's normally used configuration, aka
20220130_121623.jpg
bipod and rear bag, but I don't shoot it prone much anymore.

A 87Y group and that 100Y group with it.

One time I hit our 100Y 1" spinner 9 times in a row before I missed but I'd fallen off the reg or I might of done more.
20211223_105302.jpg
20220105_140135.jpg
 
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#13
steve123 said:
It's my 4 year old Thomas HPX custom and set up for 65-ish fpe.
This is when it's in it's benchrest configuration.
View attachment 8749101
This in it's normally used configuration, aka View attachment 8749103bipod and rear bag, but I don't shoot it prone much anymore.

A 87Y group and that 100Y group with it.

One time I hit out 100Y 1" spinner 9 times in a row before I missed but I'd fallen off the reg or I might of done more.
View attachment 8749105View attachment 8749106
Click to expand...
That is a pretty stock, in a very utilitarian modern style.

And the groups don’t suck either. 👍🏻
 
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#14
lash said:
That is a pretty stock, in a very utilitarian modern style.

And the groups don’t suck either. 👍🏻
Click to expand...
Thanks Lash.

I let the woodsmith have free rein on the stock so it's all his design. A hybrid design to be used in different ways. I'd done things a little differently but to be fair the communication between us wasn't the best and I'm to blame for my part in this. Plus this was his first attempt at such and the poor guy was battling cancer.
If there is ever a next time......
But not that it doesn't work well.

Thomasair's/Mike Nisch latest iteration slug guns are really stout guns, much more than mine is, and he's made quite a few improvements over the years including heavy match barrels with special rifling.
He's texted me 100Y groups he's shot where 25 shots would fit under a quarter and many 250/mostly X's at 50Y on N50 cards, one had 24x which is in the region of 1/8th" precision.

I tried to get him to design a repeater but he's got no time or desire since he has a 1.2 year backlog as is.
 
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#15
tsovern said:
Air is hobbled by the rules in NRL22. Don't think you'll be seeing air dominance in that organization.
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Actually the NRL have updated the air rifle rules to make air rifles competitive with rimfire rifles. .30 caliber or less slugs or pellets, 110 FPE muzzle energy or less.

PRS still has a 49 grain weight limit on .22 or .25, and pellets only in .30. A regional PRS rimfire director told me that the Air Rifle division may be going away for PRS.
 
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#16
PRS rimfire will change their mind once ammo has gotten so expensive to enough people that attendance has dropped significantly.

Only a matter of time until that happens, heck it's partially why I stopped, and definitely why I didn't buy another case of lot tested Polar Biathlon.

Logical choice at that point is pcp and by then I bet they'll be even better than now.
 
#17
steve123 said:
PRS rimfire will change their mind once ammo has gotten so expensive to enough people that attendance has dropped significantly.
Click to expand...

Yep. I need to do some testing of my own, but I’m debating if I should buy another case of low-grade match ammo (Wolf MT/ME, SK+, etc.) or throw that money into a compressor. I’ve got enough match .22LR to last me ~two years at a brick a month (WAY more than I currently shoot, I’m afraid), but enough pellets to last me well over a decade. So do I stock up on more .22 because it’s only going to go up in price, or make my life easier by becoming self sufficient with air? I’m kinda leaning towards the compressor, honestly. Quality pellets are still about half as expensive as low-grade .22LR, and about a quarter the cost of higher-grade stuff. If I focus mostly on airguns, I should be good for a long, long time. Decisions, decisions… :)
 
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#19
How many rounds do they typically get before velocity goes down and a recharge is required?

I’ve not seen any of them in person, other than the other day. A guy had one at the range and I loaned him my Garmin to check velocity. His started losing velocity before he got to ten rounds.

ETA: his was obviously not a high end rifle.
 
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#20
lash said:
How many rounds do they typically get before velocity goes down and a recharge is required?

I’ve not seen any of them in person, other than the other day. A guy had one at the range and I loaned him my Garmin to check velocity. His started losing velocity before he got to ten rounds.

ETA: his was obviously not a high end rifle.
Click to expand...

That depends on the size of the air reservoir, what pressure you fill it to, the caliber, the projectile weight, the velocity it’s tuned for, and somewhat on whether it’s regulated or not.

The standard Benjamin Marauder is a good benchmark for quality at a good price, and it has a robust aftermarket as well. For an average tune shooting 18gr .22 pellets at around 900fps, you should expect 40-50 shots from its 215cc air tube. Bump up to a bottle gun and you could easily make that 80+ shots per fill.

If you want to push the pellets faster, or want to push a heavier (higher BC) pellet or slug at the same or higher velocity, your air consumption goes up and thus shot count goes down. The 25.4gr pellets in .22 that are quite popular now will probably drop you back down to about 40-50 shots per fill if pushed at that same 900fps as the 18gr pellets.

These are rough numbers, of course. Lots of variables in tuning an air rifle, but that should get you started. Whatever the gentleman at the range was shooting either had a small reservoir, was pushing slugs at high velocity, or he was pushing pellets much faster than would generally be considered ideal.
 
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#21
Basher said:
That depends on the size of the air reservoir, what pressure you fill it to, the caliber, the projectile weight, the velocity it’s tuned for, and somewhat on whether it’s regulated or not.

The standard Benjamin Marauder is a good benchmark for quality at a good price, and it has a robust aftermarket as well. For an average tune shooting 18gr .22 pellets at around 900fps, you should expect 40-50 shots from its 215cc air tube. Bump up to a bottle gun and you could easily make that 80+ shots per fill.

If you want to push the pellets faster, or want to push a heavier (higher BC) pellet or slug at the same or higher velocity, your air consumption goes up and thus shot count goes down. The 25.4gr pellets in .22 that are quite popular now will probably drop you back down to about 40-50 shots per fill if pushed at that same 900fps as the 18gr pellets.

These are rough numbers, of course. Lots of variables in tuning an air rifle, but that should get you started. Whatever the gentleman at the range was shooting either had a small reservoir, was pushing slugs at high velocity, or he was pushing pellets much faster than would generally be considered ideal.
Click to expand...
That makes complete sense. He did not have a large reservoir and was around 900fps. I think it was his first time out and it seemed he didn’t know how to zero, but by the time I asked his velocities were already going down. He did not have a compressor or a tank, so he went home.
 
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#22
Basher said:
Yep. I need to do some testing of my own, but I’m debating if I should buy another case of low-grade match ammo (Wolf MT/ME, SK+, etc.) or throw that money into a compressor. I’ve got enough match .22LR to last me ~two years at a brick a month (WAY more than I currently shoot, I’m afraid), but enough pellets to last me well over a decade. So do I stock up on more .22 because it’s only going to go up in price, or make my life easier by becoming self sufficient with air? I’m kinda leaning towards the compressor, honestly. Quality pellets are still about half as expensive as low-grade .22LR, and about a quarter the cost of higher-grade stuff. If I focus mostly on airguns, I should be good for a long, long time. Decisions, decisions… :)
Click to expand...
Way back I'd just go to the dive shop to get my tanks filled but most of my pcp's were 30 fpe or less so I didn't need to go back to get them filled but once a month in the summers. Fills back then were $5.

That all changed when I started to buy more powerful pcp's, meaning fills were now $10, and I'd need a fill every week or more. These were 50 plus fpe guns, one being 99 fpe. These consume quite a bit of air.

Pretty much took me 20 years of pcp shooting before I finally bought a compressor and I bought a Yong Heng copy for $300. It was very noisy which made it hard to find leaks, not a few, lol, and would tend to get hot so we'd turn it off for a while all which was a PITA. I didn't like it all that much so I gave my part of it to a friend, the half owner.

Then I came into some money so I bought a light commercial compressor, a Coltri MCH6. Yes it is nice and will last me until I die. Only takes 6 minutes to fill a large tank from 200 bar to 320 bar. Air is almost free now, JK, but it's worth it to me for sure even if only for convenience sake. If I had to go to the dive shop now I'd be spending $100 a month or more to meet my needs so a good compressor was essencial.

They have really good and not very expensive compressors nowadays though.

As to your question. Do both, keep stocking up on decent 22rf ammo, and put funds towards getting a compressor too.
But since you are pretty well stocked for now lean towards the compressor. I found myself not shooting my airguns as much in that transition zone of, "crap I don't feel like going into town right now to get air", "or man every time I go to get air with my two tanks that's a $20 spot", so okay I'll just not shoot then and do chores, lol.

That's what I did except as mentioned I stopped paying the high prices for the better ammo's. Yeah sure if I was a top NRL22 or PRS22 competitor I'd prioritise differently but that's not where I'm at in life.
Plus I found out I can afford to miss a few more times for half as much $ :p
 
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#23
lash said:
That makes complete sense. He did not have a large reservoir and was around 900fps. I think it was his first time out and it seemed he didn’t know how to zero, but by the time I asked his velocities were already going down. He did not have a compressor or a tank, so he went home.
Click to expand...
It's a long explanation but as short as I can...

PCP's;
A 12 fpe .177 you can get hundreds of shots per fill using a mid sized bottle like a 480cc, and if you have say a 700cc bottle on the gun you could shoot more than a 500 count tin of pellets before filling that resevoir again. For shooting in the back yard this is a great power level and it's surprising what you can do with that low power.
I've been planning to get one of these someday just to plink in my yard with.

A 19.5 fpe .177 FT rifle you only get 60-70 or so shots from say a 480 cc bottle.
Compared to 12 fpe that's a huge difference in shot count per fill isn't it!

A 30 fpe .22 you'll get around 50 shots with a 480cc.

I have a 580 cc bottle on my 99fpe 25 cal and I get 16 shots out of it before it falls off the regulater.

This is generally speaking because the tune of the gun affects the numbers greatly. Things like how long the valve stays open, etc, etc, and optimal as far as air consumption is basically the smallest blast of air to do the job.

Those 80-ish fpe FX Panthera's with the small bottle at the rear of the gun barely get 12 shots per fill so every stage it must be filled again. This same gun can be configured with bottles at the front and the rear which changes that equation a lot but that makes the gun a lot taller.

Pcp's are interesting to say the least!
 
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#24
steve123 said:
Way back I'd just go to the dive shop to get my tanks filled but most of my pcp's were 30 fpe or less so I didn't need to go back to get them filled but once a month in the summers. Fills back then were $5.

That all changed when I started to buy more powerful pcp's, meaning fills were now $10, and I'd need a fill every week or more. These were 50 plus fpe guns, one being 99 fpe. These consume quite a bit of air.

Pretty much took me 20 years of pcp shooting before I finally bought a compressor and I bought a Yong Heng copy for $300. It was very noisy which made it hard to find leaks, not a few, lol, and would tend to get hot so we'd turn it off for a while all which was a PITA. I didn't like it all that much so I gave my part of it to a friend, the half owner.

Then I came into some money so I bought a light commercial compressor, a Coltri MCH6. Yes it is nice and will last me until I die. Only takes 6 minutes to fill a large tank from 200 bar to 320 bar. Air is almost free now, JK, but it's worth it to me for sure even if only for convenience sake. If I had to go to the dive shop now I'd be spending $100 a month or more to meet my needs so a good compressor was essencial.

They have really good and not very expensive compressors nowadays though.

As to your question. Do both, keep stocking up on decent 22rf ammo, and put funds towards getting a compressor too.
But since you are pretty well stocked for now lean towards the compressor. I found myself not shooting my airguns as much in that transition zone of, "crap I don't feel like going into town right now to get air", "or man every time I go to get air with my two tanks that's a $20 spot", so okay I'll just not shoot then and do chores, lol.

That's what I did except as mentioned I stopped paying the high prices for the better ammo's. Yeah sure if I was a top NRL22 or PRS22 competitor I'd prioritise differently but that's not where I'm at in life.
Plus I found out I can afford to miss a few more times for half as much $ :p
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was considering a Carette II but I’d have to let a few guns go to really swing a $2200 compressor. That would be the highest quality option I could manage and it’d be a stretch at that, but it would last me a lifetime with proper maintenance.

A more realistic option would be a GX CS4i or *maybe* the newer E5K1 at a hair over a grand. I have one 6.8L tank that I’d like to be able to fill for field use, but having only one bottle gun I kind of feel like I could get by with a CS3 for 90% of my shooting. That would fill an on-gun tank quick, and my Hill could top off in the field after a handful of shots. There are just so many ways I could work it given the various options, but without giving out a lot of personal info, I’m in a position where I’m unlikely to be able to purchase a larger compressor later on so it’s either do it now or not at all.

As for ammo, buying cases by lot number is obviously better overall, but like you I’m not a good enough or frequent enough shooter to really see enough of a difference lot to lot unless I get an obviously bad lot. So while I’ve always had the mentality of stocking up on ammo, I could shoot for years with my PCPs while buying a brick or two of .22LR at a time. If I can’t feed the PCPs though, then I’ll be up a creek.

So in short, yeah, I’m leaning towards a compressor. It’s not nearly as fun of a purchase as a new gun or optic, but PCPs are only fun to look at for so long lol, and if I lose access to free tank fills I get right now via a buddy at the FD, then I’m smoked.

I appreciate your input!
 
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