Knife sharpening for dummies

I use atoma diamond stones and spyderco ceramics.

I have tried the wicked edge , lanky, spyderco triangle sharpener, multiple wet stones and glass stones.

I have. Gotten the absolute sharpest knives using the wicked edge. But I found the edge to only last a hand full of cuts, then it was down to what I could achieve by free handing. I sold the wicked edge because the time it took to setup wasn’t worth it. I now mostly use a 600grit atoma diamond stones.

For cheap knives I have been very tempted to buy the Ken onion work sharp. A friend uses one and seems to work pretty good and fast. If you don’t really care about learning the skill of hand sharpening and your but using really expensive knives I think the Ken onion work sharp is probably the best route.

Rodney65 said:

Appreciate the tip. For what it's worth I don't spend a fortune on knives. I appreciate a good folder that holds an edge but given how often I lose them $100 is about what I max out at.

That said I have a butcher block of Heinkel kitchen knives and a bunch of pocket knives to learn on so I should hopefully get the hang of it eventually.

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If you use the sharpie trick to figure out the bevel that the knife is already sharpened at, it sure makes the process easier. Of course this assumes it’s not all screwed up already lol

Baron85 said:

I use atoma diamond stones and spyderco ceramics.

I have tried the wicked edge , lanky, spyderco triangle sharpener, multiple wet stones and glass stones.

I have. Gotten the absolute sharpest knives using the wicked edge. But I found the edge to only last a hand full of cuts, then it was down to what I could achieve by free handing. I sold the wicked edge because the time it took to setup wasn’t worth it. I now mostly use a 600grit atoma diamond stones.

For cheap knives I have been very tempted to buy the Ken onion work sharp. A friend uses one and seems to work pretty good and fast. If you don’t really care about learning the skill of hand sharpening and your but using really expensive knives I think the Ken onion work sharp is probably the best route.

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That's the rub with the Wicked Edge and some of the super fancy sharpeners, you can get ridiculously sharp edges mirror polished edges with it, and it can reprofile a blade really fast with the lower grit diamond stones, but it'a a lot of setup time and effort to hold that level of consistency and that insane sharpness is usually gone after a couple cuts, then your edge is what a variety of much faster and cheaper faster sharpeners will provide. So it really comes down to if sharpening is a chore you want done fast with good results, or it's a labor of love that you don't mind spending hours on to get the perfect edge.

Over the years I've found that there's more value in evaluating what you cut and the right blade edge profile and stone grit to make that happen. A lot of people go for super polished fine edges these days when in reality for the average pocket knife they'd probably be better served with a more toothy edge.

My knife sharpening pretty much falls into two categories.

1) Pocket knives etc. that I care about. I'll use something (lansky, worksharp manual, wicked edge etc.) to set usually a 18 deg angle, then I use a sharpmaker at 20 deg to maintain it's edge between "major" sharpenings. I tend to set more toothy edges in the 600-800 grit range because for me they stay effectively sharp much longer than super fine polished edges. If they are just a beater knife I'll use the ken onion to set the edge.

2) Kitchen knives, the reality is they often take a beating, even if you use cutting boards, sooner or later someone won't use a cutting board or they cut on a plate etc. For those I use a Work Sharp Ken Onion to quickly set a 16-17 deg edge, then I maintain with a steel and a sharpmaker at 20 deg. The difference between the set edge at 16-17 deg helps a bit with slicing, and the 20 deg sharpmaker microbevel helps make the actual edge a bit thicker for durability, and it ensures the sharpmaker can maintain the edge for longer. If you set the main edge too close to the sharpmaker, it doesn't take long before the sharpmaker isn't enough anymore and you have to power sharpen the edge profile again. These I'll put a much finer edge on since for most kitchen knife tasks you want something that slices really well as opposed to a toothy edge.

ToddM said:

That's the rub with the Wicked Edge and some of the super fancy sharpeners, you can get ridiculously sharp edges mirror polished edges with it, and it can reprofile a blade really fast with the lower grit diamond stones, but it'a a lot of setup time and effort to hold that level of consistency and that insane sharpness is usually gone after a couple cuts, then your edge is what a variety of much faster and cheaper faster sharpeners will provide. So it really comes down to if sharpening is a chore you want done fast with good results, or it's a labor of love that you don't mind spending hours on to get the perfect edge.

Over the years I've found that there's more value in evaluating what you cut and the right blade edge profile and stone grit to make that happen. A lot of people go for super polished fine edges these days when in reality for the average pocket knife they'd probably be better served with a more toothy edge.

My knife sharpening pretty much falls into two categories.

1) Pocket knives etc. that I care about. I'll use something (lansky, worksharp manual, wicked edge etc.) to set usually a 18 deg angle, then I use a sharpmaker at 20 deg to maintain it's edge between "major" sharpenings. I tend to set more toothy edges in the 600-800 grit range because for me they stay effectively sharp much longer than super fine polished edges. If they are just a beater knife I'll use the ken onion to set the edge.

2) Kitchen knives, the reality is they often take a beating, even if you use cutting boards, sooner or later someone won't use a cutting board or they cut on a plate etc. For those I use a Work Sharp Ken Onion to quickly set a 16-17 deg edge, then I maintain with a steel and a sharpmaker at 20 deg. The difference between the set edge at 16-17 deg helps a bit with slicing, and the 20 deg sharpmaker microbevel helps make the actual edge a bit thicker for durability, and it ensures the sharpmaker can maintain the edge for longer. If you set the main edge too close to the sharpmaker, it doesn't take long before the sharpmaker isn't enough anymore and you have to power sharpen the edge profile again. These I'll put a much finer edge on since for most kitchen knife tasks you want something that slices really well as opposed to a toothy edge.

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Not to be argumentative, but I have to disagree about the "fancier sharpeners" creating an edge that is less durable. Those sharpeners are equally or even moreso capable of creating a durable edge. The user has the ability to choose the angle and the finish on the edge. I do agree it's much easier and requires less effort to put a polished edge on a blade using something with a very controllable angle that offers very high grit stones.

I can't really say that my wicked edge has elevated my sharpening game, it's just an other way to get the job done. I am just as proficient with a regular stone as I am with the W.E.

I don’t think the wicked edge is less durable, it’s just that the extra “sharpness” that is achieved with the wicked edge doesn’t last very long. And for me the extra refinement and time/expense of the wicked edge system wasn’t worth it.

I just need a good working edge which I find is quickly achievable on a 600 grit diamond stone by hand.

I'm kinda hit & miss when it comes to sharpening, though I have noticed that I have a lot more success keeping a good edge on carbon steel than stainless. If I can't keep one sharp these days I blame it on the knife.

Numenur said:

I'm kinda hit & miss when it comes to sharpening, though I have noticed that I have a lot more success keeping a good edge on carbon steel than stainless. If I can't keep one sharp these days I blame it on the knife.

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There is something really special about a good heat-treated carbon steel blade. Running your fingers across the edge just…I dunno…feels more “light saber-y.” Too bad they rust rather easily.

Re: my carbon blades - for a time I had a Randall knife, and I still have a CCK thin Chinese cleaver, model 1303, I believe.

Just couldn’t bear to use the Randall (so pretty lol) and even then it caught an extremely faint blob/cloud of corrosion in one area. Since I try to actually use what I buy, I recognized my folly and sold it. Man that knife was something, though!


The CCK cleaver was $50 at the time and is all about the geometry. Fun to use, a laser! Except I misplaced it in a move. I know it’s in a box around here

jbell said:

Not to be argumentative, but I have to disagree about the "fancier sharpeners" creating an edge that is less durable. Those sharpeners are equally or even moreso capable of creating a durable edge. The user has the ability to choose the angle and the finish on the edge. I do agree it's much easier and requires less effort to put a polished edge on a blade using something with a very controllable angle that offers very high grit stones.

I can't really say that my wicked edge has elevated my sharpening game, it's just an other way to get the job done. I am just as proficient with a regular stone as I am with the W.E.

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Yeah I wouldn't say the edge less durable, more that the extra precision and edge refinement that something like the WE can provide at the end of the day for a user knife doesn't buy you a lot in actual cutting performance itself that lots of other sharpeners can't do for a lot less $. Especially if you're willing to put in the effort to learn to sharpen by hand.

Basically with all the stones and extreme consistency/precision something like the WE gives makes it easier to get a super refined mirror polished edge (if that's your thing), but in most actual everyday cutting that extra level of edge refinement buys you almost nothing in real cutting performance, especially after a few cuts. Now if you really have to have that mirror polished super refined edge, the WE can probably make it happen faster and better than some of the other sharpeners, but rarely is a mirror polished, super fine edge the best option for most cutting tasks. If you just want a good everyday working 600-800 grit edge tons of sharpers can put that edge on quickly and with good performance.

ToddM said:

Yeah I wouldn't say the edge less durable, more that the extra precision and edge refinement that something like the WE can provide at the end of the day for a user knife doesn't buy you a lot in actual cutting performance itself that lots of other sharpeners can't do for a lot less $. Especially if you're willing to put in the effort to learn to sharpen by hand.

Basically with all the stones and extreme consistency/precision something like the WE gives makes it easier to get a super refined mirror polished edge (if that's your thing), but in most actual everyday cutting that extra level of edge refinement buys you almost nothing in real cutting performance, especially after a few cuts. Now if you really have to have that mirror polished super refined edge, the WE can probably make it happen faster and better than some of the other sharpeners, but rarely is a mirror polished, super fine edge the best option for most cutting tasks. If you just want a good everyday working 600-800 grit edge tons of sharpers can put that edge on quickly and with good performance.

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Agreed, that's why I normally don't use anything over the 800 grit for my hard use knives.

Obviously OP found his solution already, but just popping in to add for anyone else still following. I've been using a Lansky system for close to 10 years now. Is it the best? Not even close, it is kind of finicky until you figure it out. With that said, once you have it all figured out, it will produce shaving sharp blades for very little investment. I've been quite happy with it.

I'd love a Tormek, can't justify it for myself yet but might get one and start doing it for cash as a side hustle...

Gunfighter14e2 said:

More people cut their selves w/a dull knife than a sharp one. However its much easier to tell meat quality or cooking w/a dull knife.

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This is a myth that goes at least back to the 1980s with a guy named John Juranich who used to go to the trade shows and do a parlor trick where he would take a double bit ax dull it on a brick then sharpen it to a razor edge and shave his full beard with it. He wrote a whole book on my sharpening back then and had some jigs that he would sell that are now thoroughly outdated

The myth has been thoroughly debunked over the years and it never made any logical sense to begin with.

As far as sharpening knives, this guy’s YouTube channel shows you everything you need but he is beholden to the free hand method which is not ideal for everyone. Nonetheless his channel has indispensable information about knives and steel and sharpening that spans the spectrum for anyone interested in this topic. His camera set up showing you edges and burns and scratch patterns is spectacular

secondofangle2 said:

This is a myth that goes at least back to the 1980s with a guy named John Juranich who used to go to the trade shows and do a parlor trick where he would take a double bit ax dull it on a brick then sharpen it to a razor edge and shave his full beard with it. He wrote a whole book on my sharpening back then and had some jigs that he would sell that are now thoroughly outdated

The myth has been thoroughly debunked over the years and it never made any logical sense to begin with.

As far as sharpening knives, this guy’s YouTube channel shows you everything you need but he is beholden to the free hand method which is not ideal for everyone. Nonetheless his channel has indispensable information about knives and steel and sharpening that spans the spectrum for anyone interested in this topic. His camera set up showing you edges and burns and scratch patterns is spectacular

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We'll agree to disagree, as I've seen far, far more people cut their selves using a dull knife, than a sharp one.

Did you watch the video

This isn’t “stupid simple” but if you have a bunch of knives, kitchen etc, just take 30 minutes or so and do them all at the same time. It will get them very sharp and is simple with a guide to insure proper angle. That’s pretty simple. 2 steps usually. A coarse belt then a fine. You can go through more steps but 2 usually works as long as you don’t dull them down to pitiful between sharpenings. Then 3 belts (steps) maybe. Use a sharping steel regularly for the kitchen knives you use and run in the dishwasher a lot. My family knows my kitchen knives better not be in the dishwasher though lol.

Run in the dishwasher?!?!

That is one of the top three rules of maintaining a knife.

There is no hope for a sharp knife that goes through the dishwasher unless it wasn’t even sharp to begin with so you don’t notice the difference

His point is a very good one, often dull or sharp the user is doing something foolish, cutting toward themselves, having a hand/finger etc. where it should not, distracted, etc.

Having been a knife enthusiast for 40+ years now, I can say every really bad cut I've ever had was with a sharp knife, and often either by accident or foolishness getting some part of me in the way of the blade either during cutting or the blade path after. The worst bleeding cuts I've seen are always with sharp knives. I've probably had 100+ good cuts with sharp knives over the years then I have dull ones, that said I rarely ever use a dull knife, so there's that.

The one scenario I have seen dull knives hurt people is puncture wounds. Often trying to cut something thick like leather/rubber, etc. with a lot of pressure, and then something lets go, and the knife goes faster/farther once it's free than the user intended, and the pointy end winds up somewhere it shouldn't be, often in a leg, or hand holding the object being cut. In these cases though the dull knife isn't really cutting so much as it's stabbing.

Gunfighter14e2 said:

We'll agree to disagree, as I've seen far, far more people cut their selves using a dull knife, than a sharp one.

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That is just because of the law of statistics, more people carry dull knives than sharp knives. To that those of us who keep a knife sharp also most likely know how to safely use a knife / are more familiar with using knives. IMO a person who is lazy enough to carry a dull knife is lazy enough to not take the time to think about / not pay attention to what they are doing. Just my .02

The whole rule about keeping a knife sharp to prevent an injury comes from meat cutters in slaughterhouses
They have to use great force to cut through the carcass day in and day out hour after hour and when their knife gets dull they use greater force and it slips and they cut themselves.

That is not relevant to most of humanity in every day situations

secondofangle2 said:

Run in the dishwasher?!?!

That is one of the top three rules of maintaining a knife.

There is no hope for a sharp knife that goes through the dishwasher unless it wasn’t even sharp to begin with so you don’t notice the difference

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Uhhh, read the last sentence.
People do all kinds of dumb shit so worth noting obviously.

Gunfighter14e2 said:

We'll agree to disagree, as I've seen far, far more people cut their selves using a dull knife, than a sharp one.

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You're talking about someone who doesn't respect the blade and cuts into themselves, because they don't think it's sharp enough to cut themselves? I get that maybe someone who respects it more, i.e. someone who thinks it's razor sharp, may be more careful, but that really isn't the same thing to me.

I carry a 3" cleaver blade folder. I just find that a straight edge with very little point is extremely useful, and I don't need a stabby in my pocket. If I need stabby I have many other knives suited for it. I moved my mom last week, and one of the movers didn't have a knife and borrowed mine. He exclaimed how sharp it was, and maybe for him it is. I consider it very dull, and don't want it razor sharp, because when I do that I invariably nick myself. Never bad, but a small nick that I don't get when it isn't as sharp as I can get it. Mind you, this is a utility pocket knife that opens boxes the majority of the time. Polishing it down to a scalpel isn't necessary or advantageous, nor would it be if it was a butter knife.

I want my edc to be sharp enough to easily open a box, but not so sharp that touching skin with no force instantly splits it either. That's only the one I carry. The rest I want stupid sharp, and I like my kitchen knives stupidly sharp too.

Aside from getting stabbed, my worst knife injury was cutting carpet from the back side. I was cutting away from me, and the blade came out of the handle and stuck half way into the carpet, and when I brought my hand back to make another cut it sliced me in between my thumb and index finger so deep it hit the radial artery from the top. Bled like a geyser and was spurting blood all over the room. I am not squeamish, but seeing that much of my own blood that fast was concerning. Direct pressure with a hand towel got me to the hospital without feeling faint, and some cauterizing and sixteen stitches later I was ok. The hand specialist asked me if I was left or right handed, and I would not answer. What fucking difference does that make? I need both my hands to work.

Cut me from my wrist right to the webbing almost all the way through. Miracle it didn’t hit anything but the artery.

I now don’t trust anything with a blade that can come loose. That carpet blade was scalpel sharp btw.

I was not being dangerous at all, but I was cutting the back side and did not feel or see the blade come out of the handle. It happened on the forward stroke, not the cutting one. Honestly, if I was alone I’d have had to call 911, because hard pressure is all that was keeping me from leaking out, and I couldn’t spare a hand to drive.

ToddM said:

The one scenario I have seen dull knives hurt people is puncture wounds. Often trying to cut something thick like leather/rubber, etc. with a lot of pressure, and then something lets go, and the knife goes faster/farther once it's free than the user intended, and the pointy end winds up somewhere it shouldn't be, often in a leg, or hand holding the object being cut.

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secondofangle2 said:

The whole rule about keeping a knife sharp to prevent an injury comes from meat cutters in slaughterhouses
They have to use great force to cut through the carcass day in and day out hour after hour and when their knife gets dull they use greater force and it slips and they cut themselves.

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The scenarios above are those that I think about re:dull knives are more dangerous (utility-type cutting).

The most typical one for me is breaking down cardboard boxes. No way I want a dull knife/razor when doing that. Way too easy to push too hard and go way too far with the blade.

And more quickly tiring out those little muscles that help control the blade can’t be good, either.

Other areas in which a dull blade is more dangerous are things like carving and other delicate cuts. Sometimes in those situations you’re forced to cut towards yourself.

But point taken. I think trying to take that saying and applying it universally is incorrect. It’s just used in certain scenarios because it seems counterintuitive, and it bled (sorry) over.

Also, to non-knife people, “sharp” just means “it easily cut the thing you wanted cut.” They don’t care if it is geometry or pure edge sharpness that is doing the cutting. So OUTDOORS55, as much as I respect the guy, seems a little pedantic there.

A saying like, A knife that requires too much force to cut might be more dangerous than a knife that cuts easily in the same circumstance just doesn’t have the same pithy ring to it, you know?

secondofangle2 said:

Did you watch the video

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No.
I've seen people applying far more pressure w/a dull knife then slipping and cutting their selves vs a sharp knife that cuts w/slight pressure, same with box cutters.