Maximum distance you can reliably first-shot impact 1MOA, 1/2MOA target?

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748rpilot

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#1
Some background for context: In a previous life I was very much into weightlifting, power lifting and the science/programming angle. I recall an interview/podcast with a former member of the Bulgarian Olympic Weightlifting team, Max Aita, where he discussed their training methods and said that because they spent so much time training their lifts at their one-rep max, that on any given day he could walk into a gym and front squat 440# at a moments notice. No warmup, no preparation, just load the bar and go. Which is absolutely super-human strength, like unfathomable strength, and mental strength.

This led me to consider a parallel to precision rifle shooting: On ANY day, with your current skill level and your current equipment, with no preparation, what is the furthest distance you can confidently first-shot impact a 1 MOA target? 1/2 MOA? No warm, no practice, no dry-fire: setup your rifle system and send a single shot. What equipment are you using?

What distances would you consider to be bad, average, good, great, world-class in terms of precision rifle shooting capabilities?
 
#3
I have good days and bad days.

One day it’s 1/2 MOA at distance.

The next time out it’s 3 MOA at the same distance.

No changes to equipment - just me.
It’s 100% related to pain level from previous injuries. Nothing I can do about it but keep going out and try and not get too frustrated on the bad days.
 
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#4
What an interesting thought. I couldn’t even venture an accurate guess, but I’m sure it would be 300 yards at the MAX and more than likely it would be a bit less than that. I’ll have to run this as an experiment. I’ve done a lot of this sort of stuff with pistol where I show up on the range and do a speed drill or a bill drill or something like that completely cold and those are often humbling.
 
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#5
When I had access to more land I used to shoot almost every day and try to get a hit on a reduced IPSC head at 550. Past 600 my first round hit prob went way down.
Now I mostly have targets from 410-460yd.
Around 2022 I took one shot every day at a 6” circle at those distances, which granted is closer to 1.5 moa. But rain or shine etc, my longest streak was 17 days in a row. That was with a 6.5x47.

After the CK stuff I decided to start again but this time with my 300nm. Today was day 10. Got off to a rough start but am getting more confidence with this rifle. After a few more days I’ll try to keep it in the IPSC A zone on the head. Current streak is 5 hits in a row.
Miss hit hit hit miss hit hit hit hit hit
This is the last 4
1758659153678.jpeg


Edit to add: equip is AXSR, TT, 338Ultra
 
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#7
from years of observing other shooters at matches (and myself)...1/2 moa is probably 50 yds and 1 moa would be around 100 yds

my reasoning...

certain matches for years had 100 yd paper stages...something like 5-1" dots at 100 and then 4 progressively smaller dots (KYL) that would be 1", 3/4", 1/2", and 1/4"

there wasnt many shooters outside those of us at the top who would run the 5 dots consistently every time

the KYL, again, not many outside the top guys would even go for the 1/2" and 1/4"...those of us trying to win the match would, but the % of shooters who went for it all and hit it all was always low

a match in Oklahoma (Heatstroke Open) used to have a 1moa troop line, that wasnt straight out in the same firing direction, each target had a slightly different angle. IIRC targets were from like 400-1000 (random distances in that span), and they were all hung on tall T posts with no berms so you didnt get an accurate splash feedback on a miss. So it wasnt a completely blind wind call for each target, but you had to make adjustments for each target wind call for distance and for the direction of fire change. The RO told us the score average for the stage was like 2-3 hits. Our group had a 6 and 7 (out of 10 IIRC), but the group average was still around 3.

if guys are talking about their 1 spot home range where they always shoot and know the wind and conditions because its similar, I'd say the distance can push out some...but talking 1 shot, any range, anywhere, no prior shot knowledge...it aint very far depending on conditions. People forget that hitting a 1moa or 1/2moa target is WAY different than shooting a 1moa or 1/2moa group. There are conditions and outside factors at certain range/terrain features than can cause misses even if the shooter does nothing wrong.

you start going to bare ground flat ranges in the heat with some good mirage and crosswinds laying people prone...they would whiff 1moa at 100 more often than hitting it
 
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#8
That’s why I bumped mine to 1.5 which I think is more reasonable. I don’t think ANYONE is hitting 1/2moa consistently at any distance even at 50 yards. Theres a reason why those targets always started big and got smaller instead of starting small.

Home field advantage makes a difference for sure. I used to love the OK matches like shoot for green and heatstroke. Usually shot well there because it was fun to me, being so different than shooting over hollers and mountain top to mountain top here. But the guys shooting those targets all the time definitely had an advantage.
 
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#9
Man! Good thought! I know I can’t hit 1/2 moa most days, and I would probably miss 1moa half the time.

When I worked in the next town with a 20mile drive home I would stop and shoot rifle or pistol at least once every week. Did that for several years, rain, shine, snow. Haven't done that routine in two years, but I will get back into it, thanks to this thread.
 
#11
There are too many variables. I know my maximum hunting distance will vary greatly based on conditions.

In dead calm conditions for the following 4 scenarios will be all a different maximum yardage.

90 Degrees high humidity.
65 Degrees Sunny.
65 Degrees Raining.
20 Degrees.

If it is one shot on a deer after being in the woods for 8 hours at 20 degrees F, my maximum might be 50y or less due to shivering.

Same scenario but after being outside for 8 hours on a 65 Degree sunny day, then shooting a 1moa steel target. It might be 4-500 yards.
 
#15
I'm pretty confident under normal to slightly poor weather conditions to be able to hit within MOA out to 400... But that is a 2 MOA target.

I'll also caveat that my confidence is based on a very stable shooting position, and weather that isn't crappy.

I test myself at 650 a lot on a 1/2 minute dot on a 30" gong, and while I have success a decent amount of the time - I'm also shooting on a 30" gong because I know that I can get "just a bit outside" pretty quickly and frequently. Enough to where I won't ever try a hunting shot at that distance at deer or smaller. 400 is my self-imposed limit, and I will drastically reduce that in bad weather or off of less-stable positions.

A one MOA target cold bore? I'll probably limit myself to 2-300, and won't be placing any bets on my success.
 
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#16
update to prev post just because i'm bored right now... last 5 shots, all in the ipsc A zone which is 1 7/8" x 3 7/8" so at the distance I'm shooting, just barely under 1/2 MOA vertically and just barely under 1 MOA horizontally.

Only shooting 1 round per day, different times of day, different light/mirage/wind conditions. Also, mix of prone and shooting off bed cover on a truck, just a bipod and rear bag. My goal is just practicing making adjustments for conditions so I'm putting all rounds on same target, and I'm spending at least 5 min observing conditions before shooting. So far my vertical adjustments for conditions have been 0 - .25 mil and wind has been .1 - .4

I'm doing a little better than I expected right now and will still be happy if i make it to ten days in a row inside 1.5 MOA. Driving around the country shooting at different locations would be way more fun and challenging. Maybe I'll try that in the spring.

Still, this would be way easier with my 6dasher and on a flat range.


head2.jpg


Edit:
Another day, another a zone (attached). Early morning dark and rainy.
edit again:
streak ended at 7, 6 of which were in A-zone. Garmin showed the round almost 70fps below mean and it landed 1/2" into the neck. oh well.
 

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#17
Looking at zeroing targets at precision rifle matches I have attended would put that 1 MOA at 100 yards at maybe 50% on that particular day at that specific event. Maybe 10-20% 1/2 MOA.
The larger question becomes; is 1 MOA really the requirement?
 
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#24
Well, the sniper guys of special police units are normally trained to take a shot up to 400 m in order to eliminate "stationary target". The requirement is 1/2 MOA. They are also trained to engage "moderately moving target" (whatever that means) up to 250 m. If the ranges are longer they will not take a shot unless they don't have other option. OTOH, military sniper is trained to engage "targets" much further away than that but their doctrines and tasks differ greatly
 
#25
It depends on the target, the job, the precision of the rifle.

I have a hunting rifle that can shoot .54" for 3 shots at 100 yards but that is at a bench, completely rested. Granted, that was also the first few shots out of that barrel, so, off to a good start. But I consider myself part of the system and just because it was good that day does not mean it will be that good today. So, my system, at best, is probably averaging 1 MOA.

Now, for the target. 8 inch pie plate on a deer, I halve the diameter in order to avoid skirting the edges of the boiler room and ensure a hit that will get both the lungs and heart. So, 400 yards.

Shooting at an IPSC? I have not tried at longer distances. And Just watch the latest episode of the Texas Plinking 1 MOA @ 1 k Yards challenge. Guys who are better shooters than I am with primo rigs and lots of weight in the gun to absorb the recoil are shooting at least 1 MOA or larger at 1k yards. Wind, some barrel flex (not a lot.)

Also, watching that show helps to illustrate why most shooters should not shoot game 1k yards.

Again, I am speaking of ideal conditions. But to be safe and accurate to most of my experience, 1/2 to 1 MOA at 100 yards.
 
#26
bulletbluesky said:
Well, the sniper guys of special police units are normally trained to take a shot up to 400 m in order to eliminate "stationary target". The requirement is 1/2 MOA. They are also trained to engage "moderately moving target" (whatever that means) up to 250 m. If the ranges are longer they will not take a shot unless they don't have other option. OTOH, military sniper is trained to engage "targets" much further away than that but their doctrines and tasks differ greatly
Click to expand...

I'd love to know what police unit has a requirement for 2.5" groups at 400m.
 
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#27
bulletbluesky said:
Well, the sniper guys of special police units are normally trained to take a shot up to 400 m in order to eliminate "stationary target". The requirement is 1/2 MOA. They are also trained to engage "moderately moving target" (whatever that means) up to 250 m. If the ranges are longer they will not take a shot unless they don't have other option. OTOH, military sniper is trained to engage "targets" much further away than that but their doctrines and tasks differ greatly
Click to expand...

whatever.gif
 
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#28
taliv said:
I'd love to know what police unit has a requirement for 2.5" groups at 400m.
Click to expand...
1/2 moa up to 400 m is requirement put on the weapon and caliber they use. So they train up to 400 m. It's question of percentage how often then can hit 75 mm dia circle at that distance. But in real hostage crisis situations the target is almost always closer than 200 m and , given chance, 75 mm circle are can be hit with confidence. In military, bigger torso size targets are common and training is different
 
#29
bulletbluesky said:
1/2 moa up to 400 m is requirement put on the weapon and caliber they use. So they train up to 400 m. It's question of percentage how often then can hit 75 mm dia circle at that distance. But in real hostage crisis situations the target is almost always closer than 200 m and , given chance, 75 mm circle are can be hit with confidence. In military, bigger torso size targets are common and training is different
Click to expand...
Yeah so who is they. And what rifle are they using?
 
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#31
bulletbluesky said:
Well, the sniper guys of special police units are normally trained to take a shot up to 400 m in order to eliminate "stationary target". The requirement is 1/2 MOA. They are also trained to engage "moderately moving target" (whatever that means) up to 250 m. If the ranges are longer they will not take a shot unless they don't have other option. OTOH, military sniper is trained to engage "targets" much further away than that but their doctrines and tasks differ greatly
Click to expand...
That unit should immediately enter every sniper/practical precision rifle competition in the world, as they will win every one with that kind of performance.
 
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#33
3 MOA inside 400m, with my AXSR and 300nm, I'd bet that I could reasonably do this day or night, with winds less than 10mph from any position I could reduce my wobble under .3mil. First shot of the day after packing my rifle across country to get there.

That's my reasonable standard.

Maybe with a rifle and cartridge designed for competition I could reduce the target size.

Edit I now realize the question was specifically 1-1/2 MOA, I'll demonstrate my inability to do shooting, I would never tell someone I'm an everyday sub MOA shooter at any distance. Between my equipment and me there's so many variables then to include the environment, if anyone tells me they're able to do this and essentially guarantee it, I just think that's better than I could say.
 
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#35
brianf said:
Just look at the 100 yard challenge…and those are the guys who shot well enough to post it.

Like said above stone cold 1” @100-150 is prob the farthest at an unknown location, unknown conditions.
Click to expand...
Good point, Brian. I posted my target in that thread and that was a humbling experience. I will have to amend my earlier post on this particular subject to say that 100 yards is my max limit for cold shooter accuracy.
 
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#36
brianf said:
Just look at the 100 yard challenge…and those are the guys who shot well enough to post it.

Like said above stone cold 1” @100-150 is prob the farthest at an unknown location, unknown conditions.
Click to expand...
With tuned and good enough rig, if the enviromentals are not too bad, 1" target at 100 m shouldn't be a problem.
I bet that even Taylor Swift, with little bit of education/training, can hit it more often than not :)
 
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#37
bulletbluesky said:
With tuned and good enough rig, if the enviromentals are not too bad, 1" target at 100 m shouldn't be a problem.
I bet that even Taylor Swift, with little bit of education/training, can hit it more often than not :)
Click to expand...
With my daughter being a swifty I’m sure she’d agree..music only not so much her politics. My daughter says she’s confused lol
 
#39
I'm pretty confident to hit WITHIN 1 MOA of what I'm aiming at, at 400 yards and in (under normal to good conditions)... But that means a 2 MOA target. If I bet on that, I'd certainly win more times than I'd lose, but I wouldn't have a 100% success rate either.

In poor weather, there's no way I'd have that confidence level.

Betting on hitting an actual MOA target, I'd be a lot closer to 50/50.

I try really hard to connect with a half-MOA dot at 650 when I shoot off the back of my yard. I probably have about a 10% success rate of hitting it, and maybe a 60% success rate of getting within that MOA of it. There are also plenty of times I'm 8" away from it too. It is a great tool for me working on making that good shot at 400 and in... which is my personal limitations for taking a shot at a deer size or smaller animal.
 
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#41
fwiw, i'm on day 21 of my experiment. AXSR 300nm @ 410+ yards, 1 shot per day across a holler one ridgetop to another, different times, positions etc. only 2 days rain. None of the misses were from prone or when raining.

17 hits, 4 misses - 81% hit rate
11 of the hits are inside IPSC A zone (1 7/8" tall by 3 7/8" wide box in upper half of the 6"x6" head).
IOW 11 of 21 shots are in a .5 x 1 MOA rectangle. The remaining 6 hits are in 1.5 MOA square.

1 miss was just low and due to ammo (at least, i assume as the garmin read the fps about 5 STD below mean.)
1 miss was just left missed wind call.
2 miss were just high, i attributed one to light and the other to wind moving up the face of the mountain toward the target, but just a guess

I will say, I think i'd have more hits shooting my 6dasher or 6.5x47. 300nm seems a lot less forgiving.
 
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#42
Let's look at this from a data collection side.
The PRS Barricade Skills Stage is a staple in PRS matches.
It does put some time pressure on the shooter, as it is a timed tiebreaker stage.
By 2025 rules, the targets are at a distance of between 400 and 500 yards, depending on which option is used.
Short story is that the smallest target is 6" at 400 yards (1.5 MOA).
Going through match scores, less than 25% of shooters on average will get all 10 hits.

References:
practiscore.com

Freestone Shooting Complex PRS Regional - Oct 4th

Freestone Shooting Complex is excited to host matches the first Saturday of the month where the schedule allows. Includes lunch and water. UTV's/ATV's/Motorcycles etc... welcome. 8-10 stages, 80-100 rounds, positional and limited prone shooting out to 1200 yards. Refunds: No refunds given...
practiscore.com
practiscore.com

October 4, 2025 Colemans Creek Regional PRS Competition

October 4, 2025 — Atlantic Coast Regional PRS Match Location: Colemans Creek Training Center 199 Green Road Ellerbe, North Carolina 28338 Join us at Colemans Creek Training Center for the October 4, 2025, Atlantic Coast Regional Series PRS Match. This match will consist of 8-10 stages and up...
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Welcome to Great Plains Precision Range! The Sep 27, 2025 PRS Regional Finale match will consist of ten stages and 100 rounds. Match registration and check-in starts at 7:00am. Safety and match brief at 7:45AM, and we will have rounds down range at 8:00AM. Lunch and a drink are included in...
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2025 PRS Great Lakes Regional Finale @ Buck Creek Precision

PRS Centerfire match. PRS rules apply. Targets will range from 250-970 yards. Zero boards open at 8:00 AM, shooters meeting at 8:45 AM, match starts at 9:00 AM. All match fees are non-refundable. Match slots may be transferred up to one week prior to match date. After this date, no transfers...
practiscore.com
 
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#43
Jack_L said:
Let's look at this from a data collection side.
The PRS Barricade Skills Stage is a staple in PRS matches.
It does put some time pressure on the shooter, as it is a timed tiebreaker stage.
By 2025 rules, the targets are at a distance of between 400 and 500 yards, depending on which option is used.
Short story is that the smallest target is 6" at 400 yards (1.5 MOA).
Going through match scores, less than 25% of shooters on average will get all 10 hits.

References:
practiscore.com

Freestone Shooting Complex PRS Regional - Oct 4th

Freestone Shooting Complex is excited to host matches the first Saturday of the month where the schedule allows. Includes lunch and water. UTV's/ATV's/Motorcycles etc... welcome. 8-10 stages, 80-100 rounds, positional and limited prone shooting out to 1200 yards. Refunds: No refunds given...
practiscore.com
practiscore.com

October 4, 2025 Colemans Creek Regional PRS Competition

October 4, 2025 — Atlantic Coast Regional PRS Match Location: Colemans Creek Training Center 199 Green Road Ellerbe, North Carolina 28338 Join us at Colemans Creek Training Center for the October 4, 2025, Atlantic Coast Regional Series PRS Match. This match will consist of 8-10 stages and up...
practiscore.com
practiscore.com

Ralston one day PRS time September 27 2025 finale | PractiScore

practiscore.com
practiscore.com

Great Plains - PRS MIDWEST REGIONAL FINALE

Welcome to Great Plains Precision Range! The Sep 27, 2025 PRS Regional Finale match will consist of ten stages and 100 rounds. Match registration and check-in starts at 7:00am. Safety and match brief at 7:45AM, and we will have rounds down range at 8:00AM. Lunch and a drink are included in...
practiscore.com
practiscore.com

2025 PRS Great Lakes Regional Finale @ Buck Creek Precision

PRS Centerfire match. PRS rules apply. Targets will range from 250-970 yards. Zero boards open at 8:00 AM, shooters meeting at 8:45 AM, match starts at 9:00 AM. All match fees are non-refundable. Match slots may be transferred up to one week prior to match date. After this date, no transfers...
practiscore.com
Click to expand...
BR/Prone without time constraints is a lot simpler for the average shooter that the skills stage.
 
#44
Jack_L said:
Let's look at this from a data collection side.
The PRS Barricade Skills Stage is a staple in PRS matches.
It does put some time pressure on the shooter, as it is a timed tiebreaker stage.
By 2025 rules, the targets are at a distance of between 400 and 500 yards, depending on which option is used.
Short story is that the smallest target is 6" at 400 yards (1.5 MOA).
Going through match scores, less than 25% of shooters on average will get all 10 hits.

References:
practiscore.com

Freestone Shooting Complex PRS Regional - Oct 4th

Freestone Shooting Complex is excited to host matches the first Saturday of the month where the schedule allows. Includes lunch and water. UTV's/ATV's/Motorcycles etc... welcome. 8-10 stages, 80-100 rounds, positional and limited prone shooting out to 1200 yards. Refunds: No refunds given...
practiscore.com
practiscore.com

October 4, 2025 Colemans Creek Regional PRS Competition

October 4, 2025 — Atlantic Coast Regional PRS Match Location: Colemans Creek Training Center 199 Green Road Ellerbe, North Carolina 28338 Join us at Colemans Creek Training Center for the October 4, 2025, Atlantic Coast Regional Series PRS Match. This match will consist of 8-10 stages and up...
practiscore.com
practiscore.com

Ralston one day PRS time September 27 2025 finale | PractiScore

practiscore.com
practiscore.com

Great Plains - PRS MIDWEST REGIONAL FINALE

Welcome to Great Plains Precision Range! The Sep 27, 2025 PRS Regional Finale match will consist of ten stages and 100 rounds. Match registration and check-in starts at 7:00am. Safety and match brief at 7:45AM, and we will have rounds down range at 8:00AM. Lunch and a drink are included in...
practiscore.com
practiscore.com

2025 PRS Great Lakes Regional Finale @ Buck Creek Precision

PRS Centerfire match. PRS rules apply. Targets will range from 250-970 yards. Zero boards open at 8:00 AM, shooters meeting at 8:45 AM, match starts at 9:00 AM. All match fees are non-refundable. Match slots may be transferred up to one week prior to match date. After this date, no transfers...
practiscore.com
Click to expand...
I think this is good information as far as hunting is concerned, you dont choose the conditions to get the perfect results, you are not prone waiting 20 minutes for things to line up, likely have a wobbly barricade or imperfect position, and have some time pressure.
 
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#45
JBoomhauer said:
I think this is good information as far as hunting is concerned, you dont choose the conditions to get the perfect results, you are not prone waiting 20 minutes for things to line up, likely have a wobbly barricade or imperfect position, and have some time pressure.
Click to expand...
I think 2 MOA hunting accuracy is very solid. Asking shooters to hit 4”@200 unsupported is a big ask. 8” is not easy. That’s why most hunters don’t actually need an FFP or dial capable optic.
 
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#46
Jack_L said:
Going through match scores, less than 25% of shooters on average will get all 10 hits.
Click to expand...
That is great data but for 1st round cold bore hits that the OP mentioned,that data should be viewed as highly optimistic because after the first few shots, the rest of your shots are gonna be a higher percentage because you’ve already got the wind figured out and on average half your squad has already shot and shared their wind calls
Edit: obviously net of time constraints and having to build several positions
 
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