308win, Varget, 168gr: Go to load?

beetroot

beetroot

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Apr 10, 2018
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#1
I'm hoping to find a quick and dirty load recipe for my 308 with Varget and 168gr ELD-Ms (or could consider another 168ish bullet).

I don't enjoy load development and the weather is forecast to be horrible for the next few months, so a known "node" would be nice.
Factory ammo is just too expensive considering I have dies, brass and primers already, and I don't mind reloading (just not pissing around shooting groups all the time).
So long as the load was on par with factory ammo I'll be happy.

I've been though the whole 308 thread, and with some extra searching found a few loads that kept popping up:
42.2
42.4
44.0

The 42 grain loads should be more than safe enough to just go for, the 44 probably needs working up to.

Was just going to seat them the same as Hornady Match factory ammo (basically 2.8 COAL).
 
#2
With your favorite factory ammo and your bbl, there could be a +/- 75 fps difference between your load and someone else's idea of a clone.

You will need to get a stable sample of the factory velocity in your bbl, and then it really shouldn't be difficult to either match it, or, see if your rig wants to be faster or slower with your reloading process.

At the very least, you could just match the speed but your rig may want half a grain more or less than the next guy's rig. YMMV

1758667271805.png
 
#3
No trying to match a velocity, just hoping to find a known "node" (if one exists).

For example had read 42.4gr is meant to replicate FGMM (I know I'm using the wrong bullet).
Or 42.2gr is meant to be a known node.

Many of the 6mms have a known pet load, 6BR for example:
105gr Hybrid
30gr Varget
.020" off lands

I'm not expecting to find a miracle load, just looking to see if there is a similar pet load for 308.
 
#8
spife7980 said:
That “known pet load” would lock up my bolt with high pressure bolt lift. Don’t trust the “known” things off of the internet. Start low and work up.
Click to expand...
Noted, I was still going to precede with caution.

42gr is in the ball park of many starting loads, and is likely where I would've started from in a normal work up.
44gr would be worked up to.
 
#9
I couldn’t get 168 ELDM to shoot for shit. I’ve been shooting a bunch of the 169 SMK, too, but it’s not a single load problem. Did initial load development in 2007-12 Hornady match brass. 44.8 gr Varget and a CCI 200 nets around 2650, or a WLR and 44.6 gr. LC and FC brass, CCI 200 and 44.4 gr shot around 2650, as well, IIRC. I’ve had some loads reach up close to 2750, but that’s just hotter than I feel the need for in a 20”.

And an ELDM at any of the higher charge weights would have pressure signs in my gun.

Now I’m on the struggle bus with it not shooting that load at 2.83” overly well. Doing some diagnostics, but I hate having to wait and being one who generally has to learn crap by trial and error.
 
#10
turkey_creek said:
I couldn’t get 168 ELDM to shoot for shit. I’ve been shooting a bunch of the 169 SMK, too, but it’s not a single load problem. Did initial load development in 2007-12 Hornady match brass. 44.8 gr Varget and a CCI 200 nets around 2650, or a WLR and 44.6 gr. LC and FC brass, CCI 200 and 44.4 gr shot around 2650, as well, IIRC. I’ve had some loads reach up close to 2750, but that’s just hotter than I feel the need for in a 20”.

And an ELDM at any of the higher charge weights would have pressure signs in my gun.

Now I’m on the struggle bus with it not shooting that load at 2.83” overly well. Doing some diagnostics, but I hate having to wait and being one who generally has to learn crap by trial and error.
Click to expand...
Thankfully my rifle seemed to like the Hornady Match ELD-M ammo, more so than the 168gr SMK ammo I tried.

Was hoping to try a lazy load development, by loading to the same CBTO as the factory ammo and hoping to get luck with a charge weight.
I might have to do a simple ladder test to see what velocity and pressure signs I get and then decide where to from there.
 
#11
beetroot said:
Thankfully my rifle seemed to like the Hornady Match ELD-M ammo, more so than the 168gr SMK ammo I tried.

Was hoping to try a lazy load development, by loading to the same CBTO as the factory ammo and hoping to get luck with a charge weight.
I might have to do a simple ladder test to see what velocity and pressure signs I get and then decide where to from there.
Click to expand...
Charge weight seems more related to the brass than much of anything, at least in my loading. Primer can also be cause for a significant velocity swing.

I’ve a Rem 700 that shoots the 165 Interlock factory ammo I’ve had for a bunch of years pretty well. I could not get that projectile to do anything worth a hoot in a Handload, either.
 
#13
Problem is sometimes rifles are really peculiar in the load they like.

I would have bet against this, and it's not the normal with Varget.

This 16" AR 10 did not like Varget 49.5 S/Ds with 168 gr bullets poor accuracy.

But it loved 168 ELDM with 2000MR right at the max...fast & accurate.
So that's what I shoot in it, also the 169 and 177 SMK are liked, in this barrel.
 

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#15
beetroot said:
I'm hoping to find a quick and dirty load recipe for my 308 with Varget and 168gr ELD-Ms (or could consider another 168ish bullet).

I don't enjoy load development and the weather is forecast to be horrible for the next few months, so a known "node" would be nice.
Factory ammo is just too expensive considering I have dies, brass and primers already, and I don't mind reloading (just not pissing around shooting groups all the time).
So long as the load was on par with factory ammo I'll be happy.

I've been though the whole 308 thread, and with some extra searching found a few loads that kept popping up:
42.2
42.4
44.0

The 42 grain loads should be more than safe enough to just go for, the 44 probably needs working up to.

Was just going to seat them the same as Hornady Match factory ammo (basically 2.8 COAL).
Click to expand...

165gr Nosler BT and 43.0 Varget was a miracle combination in one of my old .308s. 175gr SMK and 42.8 is the recipe for my M24R.

If you have a target velocity or minimum I'd just incrementally try from 42.5 up and once you hit it, adjust seating depth from there. If you are going to stay with 2.8XX that Hornady Match is at, I don't think you'd run into any issues with trying 42.0 - 43.5 on your first range session. Anything below 42.0 and you're really starting to handicap yourself in velocity IMO (and I don't chase velocity).
 
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#16
beetroot said:
I'm hoping to find a quick and dirty load recipe for my 308 with Varget and 168gr ELD-Ms (or could consider another 168ish bullet).

I don't enjoy load development and the weather is forecast to be horrible for the next few months, so a known "node" would be nice.
Factory ammo is just too expensive considering I have dies, brass and primers already, and I don't mind reloading (just not pissing around shooting groups all the time).
So long as the load was on par with factory ammo I'll be happy.

I've been though the whole 308 thread, and with some extra searching found a few loads that kept popping up:
42.2
42.4
44.0

The 42 grain loads should be more than safe enough to just go for, the 44 probably needs working up to.

Was just going to seat them the same as Hornady Match factory ammo (basically 2.8 COAL).
Click to expand...
Just out of curiosity, what gun are you shooting this out of. A set weight of powder will vibrate a 20" pencil barrel a little differently than a 26" bull. And for me personally (I measure every single round's bto after im done seating w/ a mitutoyo caliper) and I've found the hornady's to be on the exact opposite end of consistency over the bergers in terms of length. Is there a reason you're set on the Hornadys? And is there a certain group size you're hoping for?
 
#17
Basic user said:
Just out of curiosity, what gun are you shooting this out of. A set weight of powder will vibrate a 20" pencil barrel a little differently than a 26" bull. And for me personally (I measure every single round's bto after im done seating w/ a mitutoyo caliper) and I've found the hornady's to be on the exact opposite end of consistency over the bergers in terms of length. Is there a reason you're set on the Hornadys? And is there a certain group size you're hoping for?
Click to expand...
It's an AI AT, 16" 1:12 twist.

Not sure how much use it's going to get so had just planned to shoot factory ammo, but the price of factory ammo has gone absolutely insane where I am so thought I should just bite the bullet and reload as I already had dies, brass, and primers.
I just don't like load development, reloading itself if fine.

168ish grain seems to offer the best compromise of BC and speed, the short 1:12 twist is a bit limiting for the heavier projectiles and most on the 155s lag behind in BC.
I was keen to shoot 169SMKs but if I end up hunting with the rifle SMKs aren't the best choice, so the 168 ELD-M seemed like the obvious choice.
I did shoot half a box of Hornady Match ammo through it and it shot well with it, hence why I was just going to match the seating depth of the factory ammo.

The reason I don't like load development is:
-I don't have ready access to a flat range, so trying to get a nice 100yard shoot that's not from a compromised position is difficult.
-It's spring where I am, so very wet and windy. Again no under cover range, and trying to shoot a lot of paper is difficult.
-Needing to make multiple range trips with the above in mind is twice as difficult.

I had planned to load up 5 of each, 42, 42.5, 43, 43.5, 44, 44.5, 45gr and just pick what shot the best.
But I thought if there is a known pet load I'd try that instead.
However it's not looking like there is an easy button load like there is with other cartridges.
 
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#18
diggler1833 said:
165gr Nosler BT and 43.0 Varget was a miracle combination in one of my old .308s. 175gr SMK and 42.8 is the recipe for my M24R.

If you have a target velocity or minimum I'd just incrementally try from 42.5 up and once you hit it, adjust seating depth from there. If you are going to stay with 2.8XX that Hornady Match is at, I don't think you'd run into any issues with trying 42.0 - 43.5 on your first range session. Anything below 42.0 and you're really starting to handicap yourself in velocity IMO (and I don't chase velocity).
Click to expand...
Cheers.
Yeah I had thought 42-43 grains at 2.8ish" would be more than safe as 42gr is what Hodgdon say to start at.
43-44gr I'd say would be ok if seated out to the lands, but I was less confident to just chuck 44gr of powder in and let rip.
 
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#20
beetroot said:
It's an AI AT, 16" 1:12 twist.

Not sure how much use it's going to get so had just planned to shoot factory ammo, but the price of factory ammo has gone absolutely insane where I am so thought I should just bite the bullet and reload as I already had dies, brass, and primers.
I just don't like load development, reloading itself if fine.

168ish grain seems to offer the best compromise of BC and speed, the short 1:12 twist is a bit limiting for the heavier projectiles and most on the 155s lag behind in BC.
I was keen to shoot 169SMKs but if I end up hunting with the rifle SMKs aren't the best choice, so the 168 ELD-M seemed like the obvious choice.
I did shoot half a box of Hornady Match ammo through it and it shot well with it, hence why I was just going to match the seating depth of the factory ammo.

The reason I don't like load development is:
-I don't have ready access to a flat range, so trying to get a nice 100yard shoot that's not from a compromised position is difficult.
-It's spring where I am, so very wet and windy. Again no under cover range, and trying to shoot a lot of paper is difficult.
-Needing to make multiple range trips with the above in mind is twice as difficult.

I had planned to load up 5 of each, 42, 42.5, 43, 43.5, 44, 44.5, 45gr and just pick what shot the best.
But I thought if there is a known pet load I'd try that instead.
However it's not looking like there is an easy button load like there is with other cartridges.
Click to expand...
I see. I think you're correct with your assumptions on the bullet weight. And yea match ammo's rediculously expensive now. It never recovered from the plandemic. I feel somehow maybe that was a hoped for by-product from the democrats. At any rate, if saving money is your goal then yea, I guess dont go with the bergers. The hornadys do shoot well enough (if you take more time ensuring each round has the exact same bto measurement) and are more affordable. I'd say you're on target with your proposed load ladder, though I'd ask someone else here that has gordons reloading tool or quick load (i have both but they're not intuitive enough for me to figure out) and see if the upper range of your load ladder's not using too much powder for such a short barrel; make sure we're not wasting powder for no added benefit.
Find one that groups the best and call it a day. Although watch out for hunting ammo load development; I see a lot of people do hunting ammo load development in the summer, only to use it when it's hunting season, which is typically 30 degrees outside. Depending on the powder you could get wildly different results.
 
#21
beetroot said:
Hornady used to print a load recipe on the Match 6.5 Creed box, so it's not outrageous to think there's a know pet load out there
Click to expand...
I have found 44gr of Varget will closely match the velocity of the factory loaded 168 gr match round.

Out of a Scar 17 with 16” barrel the reload averages 2425 versus the factory load at 2450. The accuracy was also similar in performance.
 
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#22
41-44.5 ish grains?

It can vary based on the specific bullet, COAL, and barrel.

Varget in 308 has shot everything good in my experience as far as ES/SD goes. I just load to a reasonable velocity based on book data. obviously, monitoring for pressure signs as I go.
 
#23
So against the (better) judgement of the hide I choose two weights of Varget and just went for it.
A friend (who isn't a complete idiot) recommended 44gr seated off the lands, which reflected a lot of the loads people were using in the 308 load thread.

Loaded up 10 each of 42.4gr (seated to Hornady ammo CBTO) and 44.0gr seated .020" off lands.
Either had particularly good ES/SD, 46/12.13 and 38/11.76 respectively.
Neither printed amazing groups but both loads were a lot wider than tall, there was a gusty cross wind at the range which didn't help/

The 44gr load was only 50fps (for a lot more powder) faster, 2450 vs 2500fps, however it had the lower ES/SD and the groups had a lot less vertical (.3" over 10 shots). I didn't exhibit any heavy bolt lift, and the primers looked much the same as the 42.4gr load.

I shot some factory ammo first up and that had serious horizontal stringing over 5 shots, around .8" wide and .2" tall, so I think wind and/or my shooting was an issue.

I'll load up a few more of the 44gr and wait for some better weather.
 
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