Giant ammo plant in TN blew up!

sirhrmechanic

Command Sgt. Major
Full Member
Minuteman
How long before we find out the origin for this, or will we ever?
If you manufacture energetic materials, you have a distinct, albeit small, probability of getting unplanned energetic events.

"Explosives are metastable because they are in a high-energy state that is not the most stable (lowest energy) but can remain intact until triggered by an external stimulus like a shock wave or heat. This metastability means they contain a large amount of stored energy ready to be released through an exothermic reaction when initiated. Examples include traditional explosives and nanomaterial-based reactive materials, which are often called Metastable Intermolecular Composites (MICs)."

DuPont used to build the powder mills along the Brandywine River with three stone walls and one wooden wall towards the river to minimize damage and shorten rebuild time. Today, the risks are better understood and mitigated but those plants are run by humans, humans cut corners and sooner or later the swiss cheese slices lineup so that you have one continuous hole. If they find the exact reason it will most likely fall in the category of "normalization of deviance" of prescribed procedures.

PS: Just looked at the recent pictures of what's left of the building. Hate to say it but everyone who was inside at the time of the explosion is gone; no chance to survive the overpressure that created this debris field. The cause may also not be determined due to the complete obliteration of the building.
 
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Before and after [hoto.

1760139592527.png

PS: Just looked at the recent pictures of what's left of the building. Hate to say it but everyone who was inside at the time of the explosion is gone; no chance to survive the overpressure that created this debris field. The cause may also not be determined due to the complete obliteration of the building.
Consider the concussion from a 50BMG cartridge, then multiply that by a gazillion.
 
Before and after [hoto.

View attachment 8784816

Consider the concussion from a 50BMG cartridge, then multiply that by a gazillion.
Your first photo marks the administrative building. This is NOT where the explosion occured. It was one of the eight manufacturing buildings that are dispersed over 1,300 acres together with several earth covered magazines.
 
Here is a snippet from their website:
1760142608059.png


Highest inherent risk is in the manufacturing (chemical synthesis), casting and pressing operations. But these tasks do not involve ~20 people for good reasons. Also, the blown up building is very large and does not have any fume vents, etc. But it has a large, gently curved driveway loop and loading docks.

My speculation is that something went wrong in the Load, Assemble, Pack (LAP) operation and a sympathetic detonation set off all explosives that were in the building. Which means that the operation was improperly designed and/or performed as you want to localize any undesirable events. Similarly to them dispersing the buildings and magazines over their acreage you want to disperse small quantities of explosives during various operations. When it comes to storage, the ATF rules require certain distances between magazines for certain quantities and types of explosives for the same reason.
 
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It was a Homer Simpson moment. A place like that is probably a Class 3 Division 1 location. Flammable dust that could ignite.

Homer Simpson wanted to light a fart, which is vapor. Flammable vapor is Class 1 Division 1. Flammable vapor that could ignite.

Communication is key.

(Neither of those is accurate but I had to do it to make the joke work. ("Comedy isn't pretty." - Steve Martin))
 
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Another PEPCON.

This one is smaller but more lives were lost.

Explosives are very unforgiving of any lapse in judgment, inattention or bravado.

RIP

Thank you,
MrSmith
PEPCON was Ammonium Perchlorate catching fire and then exploding in several stages. That may have given people enough warning to GTFO.

AES manufactures TNT and I can almost guarantee you that this is the slowest, least brisant stuff they use as a binder for casting. You cannot safely melt RDX or PETN due to their melting point being too close to the self-detonating temperature. Instead, these explosives are mixed with TNT which has a lower melting point and then cast as a slurry.
TNT, the slowest explosive in these compositions, has a detonation speed of around 6950 m/s. Which means that everyone who perished in this accident did not feel any pain. Everything is fine and then, in a few milliseconds, everything is gone. No time for an "oh shit" moment.

Fun fact: A candle contains more energy per weight and volume than a stick of Dynamite. But the candle energy is released over the course of minutes/hours whereas the Dynamite releases its energy several orders of magnitude faster. (Candle has a total energy advantage by using oxygen from the surrounding air).
 
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For whatever reason, I was able to read almost all the way through op’s link before it eventually noticed I wasn’t a paying customer and put up a paywall.

I noticed that one of the companies with an ownership stake was AAC. I couldn’t see that part after the paywall, so I couldn’t double check what it said.

When I saw ammo plant and Tennessee, my first thought was Palmetto State Armory and American Ammo Company/Corporation/whatever it is.

But it sounds like it wasn’t ammo after all, but high explosives.

Anyway, just thinking out loud.

Also, kudos to the newsroom and writers and staff for just giving the facts without wedging in asome obscure attempts at tying in misinformation about climate change or Trump or anything like that.

Prayers to the workers and the families affected.
 
This is pure tinfoilic, but thinking of the other post about co ordinated attacks, what how difficult would it be to fly a small bomb laden drone into that place? Hit the right spot and catastrophy. Thats what the Ukes have been doing to the Ruskies. We are so vulnerable.
 
If it’s truly run by the women, and I’m not saying it isn’t because I don’t know. But in the auto industry, which also likes to virtue signal, it wasn’t uncommon for there to be a female/minority “owner” for a company run by others.
not just the auto industry many others used it to get upped in the bidding process shamelessly
 
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. Which means that the operation was improperly designed and/or performed as you want to localize any undesirable events. Similarly to them dispersing the buildings and magazines over their acreage you want to disperse small quantities of explosives during various operations. When it comes to storage, the ATF rules require certain distances between magazines for certain quantities and types of explosives for the same reason.
Yes. A good friend of mine who is a skeet Hall of Fame shooter sponsored by Remington (at least at the time) told me a story of his visit to the Remington ammo plant in Lonoke, AR. As they were walking around showing him the plant he asked "what's that small building way over there" and the answer was "its were we make primers and we have had to rebuild it a number of times over the company's history".

As you seem to have some good knowledge in this area, I'm sure you know that smokeless powder is not a high explosive and does not detonate...it just burns VERY rapidly (deflagration). But the primer material is a different story....absolutely detonates.

I was told they keep a water mist constantly in that small building to reduce the risk of static electricity spark which would be way no bueno.

Cheers
 
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If it’s truly run by the women, and I’m not saying it isn’t because I don’t know. But in the auto industry, which also likes to virtue signal, it wasn’t uncommon for there to be a female/minority “owner” for a company run by others.

Worked for two different companies owned by women. Usually saw them when they dropped in to have lunch with the boss. One was part Creek Indian. If she had been gay and/or Amish, she would have really raked in the government contracts.
 
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Yes. A good friend of mine who is a skeet Hall of Fame shooter sponsored by Remington (at least at the time) told me a story of his visit to the Remington ammo plant in Lonoke, AR. As they were walking around showing him the plant he asked "what's that small building way over there" and the answer was "its were we make primers and we have had to rebuild it a number of times over the company's history".

As you seem to have some good knowledge in this area, I'm sure you know that smokeless powder is not a high explosive and does not detonate...it just burns VERY rapidly (deflagration). But the primer material is a different story....absolutely detonates.

I was told they keep a water mist constantly in that small building to reduce the risk of static electricity spark which would be way no bueno.

Cheers
A couple of comments regarding deflagration vs detonation:
1760203005663.png


Most commercial blasting caps contain what is called a primary explosive, a substances that transitions from deflagration to detonation in VERY small quantities, essentially instantaneously. Lead azide is used predominantly today and in the past it was fulminated mercury. These compounds are also very sensitive to friction, shock and heat. So sensitive that during the synthesis of lead azide the formation of large crystals needs to be suppressed with additives (PVA, dextrose) because large crystals breaking up even in the mix of aqueous solutions can detonate the whole batch. Primary explosive manufacturing is inherently dicey and there is no way around it.

The primary explosive in a blasting cap sits between the initiator (fuse cord, electric match or shock tube) and the main detonator charge of about 1 gram of typically PETN or RDX. That is enough to reliably detonate most commercial high explosives. It is also enough to severely mutilate your hands, so treat the caps with respect. Low explosives like ANFO will get a booster charge (50-200 gram of a cast high explosive) in which the blasting cap is inserted.

Primers, OTOH contain lead styphnate as the shock sensitive compound which does NOT transition to detonation when mixed in the primer compound with barium nitrate (oxidizer), antimony sulfide (fuel), glass powder, etc. This is on purpose as double based smokeless powders --containing significant amounts of nitroglycerin-- like WW231/HP-38 will detonate reliably when stimulated with a standard blasting cap. Since we do not want a detonation in ammunition, primers are by design unsuitable to detonate secondary high explosives. (There are ways to achieve detonation of secondary high explosives without a primary explosive but they are technically much more complicated compared to just synthesizing and using a primary.)

The problem in the old days with black powder was that it is very flammable and a little bit of static discharge can cause the whole mill to explode (look at "energy" in the snippet above). These explosions of what is classified as a low explosive were not as violent as what just happened in Tennessee with high explosives (TNT, RDX, etc.) but still enough to demolish buildings and kill people.

Various, big explosions of ammonium nitrate over the centuries are classic cases of deflagration to detonation transition by virtue of total mass. If you pile up enough of an explosive it will eventually transition to detonation after you set it on fire. The mass required for this is dramatically less if you confine it. (Non-primary blasting caps use a sequence of high explosive at various densities in confinement to achieve detonation from initial deflagration within an inch or so).

Let's wait what further investigation of the incident in Tennessee reveals and if that does not come forward to the public or does not add up I'll call the Industry Operations Investigator (IOI) who I deal with at the ATF(E) and post what he has learned. The details and causes of these incidents are communicated as fast as determined not just throughout ATF(E) but also to the explosives industry in order to prevent future, similar mishaps.
 
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This is pure tinfoilic, but thinking of the other post about co ordinated attacks, what how difficult would it be to fly a small bomb laden drone into that place? Hit the right spot and catastrophy. Thats what the Ukes have been doing to the Ruskies. We are so vulnerable.
Never cease to prove you’re retarded
 
It has to be a high risk insurance industry business. Considering the ridiculous insurance rates and adversity to taking on any actual risk, I can only imagine the premiums they pay.
Nothing but expensive options for that sort of industrial work. Insurance companies prefer to hang onto the premium $$ they get and really dislike paying claims. Claims eat into end of year take-home. And claims for the businesses that have sorta catastrophic mishaps, like fuels mfre/storage, flammables storage, explosives and their precursors, etc. Chemical mfre. Petro stuff. Anything where a claim is expensive most times -- premiums are insanely high versus, say, an office supply store. Or grocery store.

At the other end, shooting ranges and shooting clubs coverage is not granular/specific on risks, and is priced pretty cheaply considering it's controlled explosion operations at a range.