Ramshot Tac in your 223

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

Meters dead on in a Hornady.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

MK262 77grain is loaded with Ramshot tac..it shoots excellent.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

I don't have any first hand experience with how it meters because I use a chargemaster. But TAC is all I use with .223 and I'm getting grea accuracy with 24.0 w/ 77 SMKs in both WIN and LC 08/09 brass in my 18" Larue stealth.

I have heard TAC meters great though, so I don't think you can go wrong with TAC. I love it.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

I found 24.0gr TAC/77gr SMK considerably slower in my Mk12 mod0 than Mk262. Accuracy was about the same though. Mk262 chrono'd around 2790fps, but 24.ogr TAC only produced 2685fps, ES of 65 and SD of 20 (10 shots). Am working the load up carefully from here.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

TAC with up to 55gr, Big Game with heavier.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

TAC is exactly what I use for loading .223 on my 550. I have no experience with bullets other than 40 to 69 grains, so I can't offer any load advice on the heavies, but TAC meters great. Weights of the random throws I've checked have varied less than +/- .1 grain. That is exceptional consistency and the powder burns fairly clean, too, when loaded above the middle of the charge range.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johngfoster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I found 24.0gr TAC/77gr SMK considerably slower in my Mk12 mod0 than Mk262. Accuracy was about the same though. Mk262 chrono'd around 2790fps, but 24.ogr TAC only produced 2685fps, ES of 65 and SD of 20 (10 shots). Am working the load up carefully from here. </div></div>

Yeah, I'm seeing about the same velocities out of the 24.0 as well. I've been tempted to work up to some Mk262 velocites just to see how it does, but honestly for what I use the reloads for (steel out to 500m), the 24.0 load seems to work very well. I'm curious what you come up with for a TAC load that approximates Mk262 MV and accuracy. I may work up to it myself and try it some upcoming Tac matches....

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

My comp .223 load is 77gr. SMKs over 24.0gr. of Tac. Good accuracy (sub MOA) and decent velocity for me out an 18" 1x8" AR. I shoot out to 400 yds for match stages with an occasional 500/600 yd shot (3 gun matches).

I load on Dillon presses -- a Super1050 for .223. It's the same powder measure as your 550. Tac is small enough grained that it flows well in the dillon measures. I see consistency w/in +/- .1 gr. I don't get that consitency with the longer grained extruded powders (e.g. Varget) so I use a ChargeMaster for my LR rifle. For me, .223 is a high volume round so I'm not as anal as I am with my LR loading.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

I have been using TAC in my dillon 1050 for years and won't change anytime soon, meters great through the powder measure and is very consistant and darn accurate loads can be put together.
I use 25.5 gr with the 52 SMK's for reduced course and 24 gr with the 77 gr instead of 24.5 of varget than needs to be metered through a chargemaster. Tac is much faster to load with the dillon than varget.
hope this helps.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

Yes, I love TAC. I think it's one of the best unknown powders for 223 and 308.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

75gr HDY HPBT Match (Moly), 26.5gr(C*) Big Game. Impeccable.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johngfoster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I found 24.0gr TAC/77gr SMK considerably slower in my Mk12 mod0 than Mk262. Accuracy was about the same though. Mk262 chrono'd around 2790fps, but 24.ogr TAC only produced 2685fps, ES of 65 and SD of 20 (10 shots). Am working the load up carefully from here. </div></div>

Yeah, I'm seeing about the same velocities out of the 24.0 as well. I've been tempted to work up to some Mk262 velocites just to see how it does, but honestly for what I use the reloads for (steel out to 500m), the 24.0 load seems to work very well. I'm curious what you come up with for a TAC load that approximates Mk262 MV and accuracy. I may work up to it myself and try it some upcoming Tac matches.... </div></div>

First, I'm not all that impressed with Mk262 in my rifle. MV seems to vary quite a bit, and accuracy is sub-optimal. No, I'm not a champion AR shooter, so that may be part of it. Also, they seem pretty hot, and the case heads seem to get beat up with the first firing (ejector marks and burrs, as well as extractor marks).

Rifle: SPR mk12 mod0 clone

(shameless plug to show off my rifle )

OK, here is my further attempt to clone Mk262: I first loaded up 50 rounds with Win brass (WWB once fired) that I hadn't paid much attention to trim length, primer pocket uniform, ect. I started at 23.4gr and loaded 10 rounds of each charge weight, increasing the charge by 0.2 gr each time (23.4gr - 24.2gr). For this first test I neglected to record temp/baro/RH etc, but ave. MV were as follows:

23.4gr = 2618fps, ES=41, SD=13, 10 shot group=1.055"
23.6gr = 2645fps, ES=73, SD=24, 10 shot group=1.241"
23.8gr = 2669fps, ES=64, SD=21, 10 shot group=1.393"
24.0gr = 2685fps, ES=65, SD=20, 10 shot group=1.700"
24.2gr = 2706fps, ES=71, SD=19, 10 shot group=1.432"

2 ten shot groups of Mk262 at that time gave an ave. MV=2793 with ES=93 and SD=21. Groups were 2.1" and 2.4" Not impressed. Hornady 75gr TAP FPD gave a 10 shot group around 1.5" and ave. MV=2623, ES=51, SD=15.

Next, I tried changing to some BHA Match brass I had laying around. I trimmed all to 1.750", cleaned primer pockets with a brush (didn't have a uniformer yet), chamferred case mouths with VLD deburring tool. For this group I started at 24.0gr and worked up in 0.2gr increments to 24.8gr, loading 10 rounds of each. I waited for some free time to test these and got rained out. I just had everything set up at the range with the chronograph lined up, when it started drizzling. Temp was around 50 deg F. I started off "calibrating" my results first with some Mk262. Shot 2 ten round groups in the rain and gave up. Here are the groups:





Data is in each pic but for 20 rounds ave. MV=2679, ES=75, SD=17. Accuracy was better with the 1st group=1.644" and the 2nd group=1.969". Not sure why MV was so low. May have been the temp, may have been my chrono, may have been a low bat, although it didn't indicate it to be low. I then went home without testing any of my new handloads, as the rain was steadier at that point.

2 days ago I got off work a little early and rushed home to see if I could get a few shots off before it got too dark. Again, I "calibrated" my chrono with 2 ten round groups of Hornady 75gr TAP FPD. However, due to the low angle of the sun, my chrono only picked up 7 of the 20 shots:





ave. MV=2642, ES=47, SD=15. Groups: 1.475" and 1.075

Foolishly, I started in to my handloads and shot the 1st 10 round group of 24.0gr but the chrono didn't pick up any of the shots. The group was good though:


0.990" 10 shot group

Today I finished shooting the rest and got good data.

24.2gr: ave=2713fps, ES=44, SD=13, group=1.095"



24.4gr: ave=2740fps, ES=56, SD=18, group=1.408"



24.6gr: ave=2760fps, ES=51, SD=15, group=1.468"



24.8gr: ave=2793fps, ES=64, SD=19, group=2.155"

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

I finished off with another "calibration" using 10 shots of Mk262:
ave=2762, ES=97, SD=29, group=1.521"


Mk262 case heads had some burrs from the ejector. Hard to see in this pic but they're there:


About half of the cases that were loaded with 24.2gr and above also had burrs from the ejector. These got worse with higher charges mostly.


Summary:
1. In my rifle 24.6gr TAC/77gr SMK/seated at 2.250" approximated Mk262 for MV, gave slightly better accuracy, and was more consistent for the 10 shots I loaded.
2. My rifle doesn't really like Mk262
3. Match grade brass, properly prepped obviously gave better results, and I think I'll stick with 24.0gr TAC with the 77gr SMK. I also think I'll try this with the Nosler and Hornady offerings too and see how those fare. Both are cheaper than the SMK, so it would be nice if they work as well.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

I use Wolf small rifle magnum and CCI-450's in .223 and 6BR and can tell little difference in them. I'm not sure they are any hotter just thicker cup to withstand pressure better.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

Back off the charge to ~23.5gn TAC, and get a taper crimp die. Slowly adjust the crimp die from just kissing on up to where you start seeing a sweet spot on target.

BTDT as far as trying increasing charges of TAC... never did get it to work, so-so results as shown above. Pulled apart some BH 75gn 'blue box' ammo that shot *very* well in my gun, found a) 23.4-23.5gn of what looks like TAC and b) those bullets were so tight in there I had to (literally) crush the bullet with a collet puller to get them out. Obviously a little crimp doesn't hurt (not talking winning BR matches here) and TAC apparently needs a little 'boost' to the start pressure to perform. I dialed up the tension from a Lee taper crimp die and watched the groups shrink markedly.

YMMV

Monte

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

JohnGFoster
You need to have your rifle checked, something is wrong with the accuracy, my M4 shoots better groups than that with M262. Who built it? I have also seen several SPRs that shoot lights out with the 262 and even better with reloads. Only seen one other that shoots like yours and tested it at distance (600yds) and could barely keep it in a 1/2 B-27 sized target.

As for the original post, I load on a 550B with Tac and it is awesome!! Meters really well

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

I use Tac on my Dillon 650 and it meters real well. 25.5grains with a 55 gr Hornady fmjbt.

Sub MOA at 100 yeards. That is good for my old eyes.

Jerry

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

I have not been able to duplicate the M.V.'s of Mk262 using Tac. I pulled a Mk262 round apart, and the powder looks a lot more like AA2520 to me. Has anyone tried it?

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hogstooth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JohnGFoster
You need to have your rifle checked, something is wrong with the accuracy, my M4 shoots better groups than that with M262. Who built it? I have also seen several SPRs that shoot lights out with the 262 and even better with reloads. Only seen one other that shoots like yours and tested it at distance (600yds) and could barely keep it in a 1/2 B-27 sized target.

As for the original post, I load on a 550B with Tac and it is awesome!! Meters really well </div></div>

Could not agree more. I slapped together an SPR-esque rifle in my garage in about 30 minutes that shot WAY tighter groups than that.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

I've been using Vargay for .223, damn I guess I'll have to try some TAC!

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

Yep, been only loading TAC in my .223 since I like to load a LOT of them and, I need a powder I don't need to trickle charge to get consistant throws.

You can really mow through the brass with a rapid trimmer and case feeder in a Dillon 650. It's almost as fast as reloading pistol... just set up a tool head for trimming and another for loading and, you're off to the races.

I believe it takes more time to shine the brass than to load it.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwoolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe it takes more time to shine the brass than to load it. </div></div>

Definitely does. I loaded 100rds with TAC and 55gr FMJ's the other night in 9 minutes on my 650.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bubbapug1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Excellent work johngfoster, very complete and detailed. Thanks! </div></div>

+1. I am working on a load using TAC right now trying to do the virtually the same thing, that is, trying to mimic the MK262 Mod 1. My rifle (a 24" piped Bushmaster) loves the MK262 Mod 1. I don't have all my data here with me at work so I'll have to post it later. But off the top of my head, I went clear to 24.6 of TAC behind a 77 SMK in prepped LC09 brass with a Federal 205M primer and never saw anything above 2740 and change. Just for conversation sake, I was getting 2765 out of 24.5 of RE15. I haven't had a chance to check accuracy yet, and my numbers will come up some as I was chronoing at around 10 degrees F. I'll post all the data when I can.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Back off the charge to ~23.5gn TAC, and get a taper crimp die. Slowly adjust the crimp die from just kissing on up to where you start seeing a sweet spot on target.

BTDT as far as trying increasing charges of TAC... never did get it to work, so-so results as shown above. Pulled apart some BH 75gn 'blue box' ammo that shot *very* well in my gun, found a) 23.4-23.5gn of what looks like TAC and b) those bullets were so tight in there I had to (literally) crush the bullet with a collet puller to get them out. Obviously a little crimp doesn't hurt (not talking winning BR matches here) and TAC apparently needs a little 'boost' to the start pressure to perform. I dialed up the tension from a Lee taper crimp die and watched the groups shrink markedly.

YMMV

Monte </div></div>

Thats interesting. I had shot some 75gn Blue Box that shot impeccable groups out of one of my AR's but I could never get the same results with the same bullet and TAC (and several other powders). I will have to revisit that sometime and try what your saying. Good info.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

On my Dillon(s) 550, 650, and 1050, I load 77 Mk's over 23.5 of TAC and CCI 41's. Works in several AR-15's

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

Jim--are your SMk w/ or w/o the cannelure? crimped or no?

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

With cannelure, no crimp loaded on the 650 and 550, but taper crimped on the 1050.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

I was in the same predicament. I have a 550, and developed some loads for my wife's AR. She shoots 3-gun and has a 16" Lilja barrel, and a US Optics SN-4. I used WIN brass and found the TAC likes the CCI 450 the best. The two bullets I used are the Hornady 55 VMAX, and the 75 BTHP. All of the groups were fired from bags. I have shot these rounds in other AR's and found them to be just as accurate. I went about 3% higher on the 55 load for a load for myself to be used for coyotes in the winter months. Use at your own risk.


I apologize for the three shot groups. I'm a cheapskate at times. I do have another picture of the higher node for the 55's. Give me a bit and I'll find it.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

Here's a photo and chrono strip of the "winter" load:


I can't tell you why the ES/SD are so high. I wish I knew. I've shot it out to around 600 on inanimate objects, and it is quite accurate in her AR. I really like this TAC powder, although when it is all gone, I might try the Hodgdon Superformance just for grins. A little more speed, and maybe some better temp stability? Probably should leave well enough alone. I think this is 26.7 gr and CCI 450 new WIN brass and 55 VMAX. Not bad for a 4X scope at 100 though.

Re: Ramshot Tac in your 223

Tag for great info..going to look at TAC for my 223 loads.