For those out there that turn their case necks what is your process? I'm turning to about 95% and turning down till I get just a touch into the neck/shoulder junction. This is how I was taught years ago and just considered it standard practice. Has anyone found that it just doesn't matter? My guns are all standard chambers and throats. With any of them I can consistently hold .5 moa at 300yds (as far as my range goes). I understand this is not spectacular accuracy compared to some of you so I'm wondering: At my current level, am I just wasting my time with this step? I suppose I could experiment when I buy new brass but don't love the idea of wasting components and having to pull shit apart if I find that it actually does matter for a shooter at my level.
- Thread starter jambau
- Start date
Not worth it unless you're shooting specifically for long range small groups and at that a very competitive level.
A good amount of BR shooters don't neck turn as they found that they don't need to.
Others (in general) do if they have to (ie tight neck chambers and thick lapua brass)
in the "tactical shooting crowd" if you're not running s really tight neck and your brass chambers fine then no need to unless you want to and save a little more time during your reloading process.
Your goal is to have UNIFORM inside neck circumference and one way to do that is to neck turn for uniformity when sizing with a bushing or honed die without using an expander.
Provided you don't dent cases then you're SOL and have to.
Can you even guarantee that you didn't slightly ding other case mouths also?
A good amount of BR shooters don't neck turn as they found that they don't need to.
Others (in general) do if they have to (ie tight neck chambers and thick lapua brass)
in the "tactical shooting crowd" if you're not running s really tight neck and your brass chambers fine then no need to unless you want to and save a little more time during your reloading process.
Your goal is to have UNIFORM inside neck circumference and one way to do that is to neck turn for uniformity when sizing with a bushing or honed die without using an expander.
Provided you don't dent cases then you're SOL and have to.
Can you even guarantee that you didn't slightly ding other case mouths also?
Neck turning produces lower SD/ES numbers against non turned brass. It eliminates fliers from uneven seating pressure/neck tension of the bullets. All non-lapua brass benefit from this greatly.
Lapua brass out of the box only reduces those numbers about ~30% since their neck variations are typically about 4 thou. I still turn my lapua brass also. Its just above the shoulder/neck junction that will effect seating pressure. I use an arbor press/wilson seater where you can really feel any small variation when seating bullets.
In the end....well its up to you..and only a 1 time operation. For me....well I need all the help I can get.
I only shoot steel at a hobby level.
Lapua brass out of the box only reduces those numbers about ~30% since their neck variations are typically about 4 thou. I still turn my lapua brass also. Its just above the shoulder/neck junction that will effect seating pressure. I use an arbor press/wilson seater where you can really feel any small variation when seating bullets.
In the end....well its up to you..and only a 1 time operation. For me....well I need all the help I can get.
I only shoot steel at a hobby level.
^ if you control your neck tension from the inside then is neck turning going to help you produce lower ES/SD?
Ive never seen a piece of brass of any make that was out .004. Maybe it exists, but mostly I shoot Lapua in every cartridge I'm able to(without forming from a parent cartridge), and have never seen much more than .0005" in those.
Worst ive seen consistently is Hornady 6.5CM, which ive seen vary by .0015 in the lots ive had.
OP, in my opinion it isnt worth the time. I dont struggle with high es/sd, and i do absolutely zero prep beyond FL size and inside/outside chamfer.
edited: I did neck turn some cases from
time to time, and have all the equipment, i just dont use it anymore. When i was shooting .17 fireball, it was required as 17 fb brass sucks, and the 17's are very sensitive to neck tension. My solution now is to not shoot .17's. 20's arent nearly so finicky.
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I'm using Lapua brass, control with a bushing die then a mandrel from the inside with a final measurement of .3055 ID.
If I'm diligent on dropping my final kernels to just hit my charge weight I get an SD of about 6-8.
I've been really thinking about neck turning but I don't think I can gain anything that my shooting skills and current ability could use at this time.
Just my thoughts.
If I'm diligent on dropping my final kernels to just hit my charge weight I get an SD of about 6-8.
I've been really thinking about neck turning but I don't think I can gain anything that my shooting skills and current ability could use at this time.
Just my thoughts.
Yes, because a thicker neck will offer more tension than a thin neck, starting from the same ID. A neck with a thick side will do the same thing, to a lesser degree.
LoL I just reread my post !!!!! it should be 4 ten thou. This is the norm for lapua brass. Other brands will be a thou or more in variations.
Then all you need to do is adjust neck tension. Still no viable reason to neck turn.
That doesnt correct the neck turners issue though. The idea is that the necks are uneven, simply changing the bushing or ball size doesnt change the variation in the necks. The uneven necks come out just as uneven as they went in. Only their OD/ID changed.
I think the correction isnt worth the time involved for the results one gets, in a tactical precision rifle anyway.
James, the issue is how variable the necks are gripping the bullets. The case being pushed forward by the ejector and firing pin blow, and the case neck floating in the clearance of the chamber neck have no bearing on this.
edit: the concentricity caused by variable necks would also be corrected by neck turning, not an expander ball.
This is all academic. I agree with you that it's not an issue that needs addressing with quality brass.
edit: the concentricity caused by variable necks would also be corrected by neck turning, not an expander ball.
This is all academic. I agree with you that it's not an issue that needs addressing with quality brass.
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[QUOTE="neck turning produces lower ES/SD numbers" which I argue is false (to a degree)[/QUOTE]
Can you expand upon this ? I was trying to be very general since there are many ways to approach this. My goal is to create an environment to have a "perfect" bullet release each time by removing variations in the case.
I'm always up to learn something new.
Can you expand upon this ? I was trying to be very general since there are many ways to approach this. My goal is to create an environment to have a "perfect" bullet release each time by removing variations in the case.
I'm always up to learn something new.
BLUF:
-Neck turning is only necessary if your chamber/brass calls for it
-you use bushing dies and do not hit the inside with any type of expander ball
-you strictly control neck tension via bushing or honed due on the outside
having a little more material on the outer dimension isn't going to affect neck tension to a very measurable amount. This can be proven with prudent load development and chronograph data.
If you size your cases and are in the group that does not use an expander ball or expander mandrel, you DO need to neck turn because you want your necks to be as concentric as possible so your bushing sizes your necks uniformly.
If youre also neck turning then you need to realize you're bushing size needs to be different than the conventinal method of "if you want 2 thousandths neck tension get the bushing that's .002 smaller than loaded round" because that'll be technically wrong without being practically wrong (plus the fact that you neck turned and now all your cases get uniform tension).
other viable reasons to neck turn:
-you want to turn 308 lapua brass to 260/6.5 brass. Sometimes you're not gonna have enough clearance or "acceptable clearance" (said you want around 5 thousandths total clearance diametrically). Viable reason to neck turn.
Youre running a tight neck chamber and you're lacking clearance
you don't want to use an expander ball / mandrel at all and rely on the bushing to have less influence on the neck
you want to.
It's said that neck turning may also relieve you the need for annealing because the brass will spring back uniformly (never tested this).
my gripe is when honest misinformation gets spread about.
-Neck turning is only necessary if your chamber/brass calls for it
-you use bushing dies and do not hit the inside with any type of expander ball
-you strictly control neck tension via bushing or honed due on the outside
having a little more material on the outer dimension isn't going to affect neck tension to a very measurable amount. This can be proven with prudent load development and chronograph data.
If you size your cases and are in the group that does not use an expander ball or expander mandrel, you DO need to neck turn because you want your necks to be as concentric as possible so your bushing sizes your necks uniformly.
If youre also neck turning then you need to realize you're bushing size needs to be different than the conventinal method of "if you want 2 thousandths neck tension get the bushing that's .002 smaller than loaded round" because that'll be technically wrong without being practically wrong (plus the fact that you neck turned and now all your cases get uniform tension).
other viable reasons to neck turn:
-you want to turn 308 lapua brass to 260/6.5 brass. Sometimes you're not gonna have enough clearance or "acceptable clearance" (said you want around 5 thousandths total clearance diametrically). Viable reason to neck turn.
Youre running a tight neck chamber and you're lacking clearance
you don't want to use an expander ball / mandrel at all and rely on the bushing to have less influence on the neck
you want to.
It's said that neck turning may also relieve you the need for annealing because the brass will spring back uniformly (never tested this).
my gripe is when honest misinformation gets spread about.
My question would be what are you trying to accomplish. If you are shooting steel, really not much point in turning your brass unless you are you are experiencing a fair amount of neck thickness variation. This can be corrected using a mandrel or using the expander plug. If you are shooting at 600 to 1000 yards for score on paper you probably want to turn your necks to a uniform thickness.
The only reason that I neck turn is because I convert LC LR brass to 6.5 Creedmoor for my AR-10 and I convert Lapua 308 Palma to 6 XC for my bolt action. If it weren't for that I definitely wouldn't neck turn and as it is I only do it once per piece of brass and that's it for the life of that piece.
