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AR15 Build Opinions

RTV

RTV

Rock the Vote
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 30, 2019
316
183
Hello everyone, hoping to get some feedback on a build I have been working on for a while before I pull the trigger.
It is meant to be my "go to" rifle and my only one for at least two years before I can save up enough for another one so I want it to be suitable for any role it might be called upon to fill including long range plinking (mainly up to 600 but out to a thousand for giggles), home defense, maybe even a little hunting.

I chose .223 wylde instead of something larger because one of this rifles duties will be home defense and the
223 caliber bullets tens to lend themselves to less overpenetration than some of the other options as well as magazine reliability/cost and the abundance of ammo.

Parts List:

Optic: Razor 1-10x
Suppressor: Dead Air Nomad (will be taken off during HD use)

-----------------------------------------------------------

Barrel 289$: criterion CORE 16"middy chrome lined .223 wylde

Trigger 240$: geissele Tricon

Rail 189$: Aero ATLAS S One 15"
-might go with a Geissele Mk4 due to rigidity concerns although I really like how the smaller diameter S-One from Aero helps me get more grip in a C Clamp grip.

Gas block 65.95$: VLTOR Gas Block .625 Black

Gas tube 23$: SLR mid length

Muzzle Device 119.95$: Griffin tactical compensator taper mount

BCG 275$: Cryptic Coatings Mystic Black
-still debating this one because of price. Mostly an aesthetic choice but the benefits sound great as well. Alternate option
Is an Aero Nitiride BCG for 130$

Upper 130$: BCM Mk2

CH 105$: Radian Raptor SD

Buffer/tube&stock 214$: VLTOR A5 with IMOD

Lpk 40$: Aero Precision

*Purchased* Lower 99$: Aero Precision
 
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smokin.338 said:
I got $1837 in parts to just build this 1 rifle... IMO you have A lot of cosmetic (and unnecessary parts) on your list ! For that kind of money you could build to 2 complete rifles. 1 pistol for HD and another for the Mid-range that you seek.
Click to expand...

The BCG and trigger are defenitly a splurge and I could easily shave a couple hundred by going with an ALG trigger and Aero BCG item anything else stand out to you as unnecessary?
 
- From my limited understanding, a gas tube's a gas tube; don't overthink it.
- 14" barrel might be a little more handy in the home defense role.
- Unless things have changed, if you buy a Geissele rail they throw in a free gas block so that's money saved there. And if you're looking for a smaller tube, the Geissele Mk16 is slimmer though more expensive than the Mk4.
 
The 16" chrome lined will be fine for close work. 300y, maybe 500 if it's a nice barrel but IMO you're going to be struggling beyond that. No way it's going to 1000y supersonic. Probably not 750. That's OK, as long as you're OK with that.

That said, you could always spend a few hundred down the road on a 6.5 Grendal upper. That will get you there at 20-22".
 
The Geissele rail will not work with the BCM Mk 2 receiver. I believe the anti-rotation tabs do not work the different geometry of the upper, is the problem. I would look into other good options for rails like Centurion, BCM, KAC, etc. I personally would just go with something like a BCM BCG, I dont see the Cryptic offering you anything other than aesthetics.
 
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RTV said:
The BCG and trigger are defenitly a splurge and I could easily shave a couple hundred by going with an ALG trigger and Aero BCG item anything else stand out to you as unnecessary?
Click to expand...
Not unnecessary but I would think about changing the charging handle and gas block. If you plan on shooting with and without suppressor: for close to the same money maybe even less expensive, just get a BCM charging handle and Superlative Arms adjustable gas block. This will allow you to make sure the rifle is reliable either way you want to run it without blowing gas back in your face.
 
Unless you already have one or have a complete upper that you are taking apart, BCM is not selling their MK2 upper at the moment. They said they are focusing on selling only complete uppers or complete rifles/pistols for the time being. But, if you have a line on a couple Mk2 uppers, please let me know, lol!
 
Why would you take off a suppressor and muzzle device for a home defense rifle. If you ever have to shoot that rifle within your home, the Deadair will be appreciated.
 
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In my way of thinking, there are 4 areas in a build where you want to make sure you don't skimp... barrel, BCG, optic, and trigger. Only time I ever break my own advice is optics. Mainly because I'm having to stretch my dollars, but it's something I'm working on... Stuff like the rail... unless you're gonna mount a big heavy IR laser that has to stay zeroed perfectly, all it hast o do is allow you to hold on the the damn thing. I have 4 ARs, and they all have Midwest Industries rails. They're inexpensive, rigid enough for the job, look nice enough, and the M-Lok works... that's all they have to do.

Y5Diica.jpg
 
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Lil Casino said:
Not unnecessary but I would think about changing the charging handle and gas block. If you plan on shooting with and without suppressor: for close to the same money maybe even less expensive, just get a BCM charging handle and Superlative Arms adjustable gas block. This will allow you to make sure the rifle is reliable either way you want to run it without blowing gas back in your face.
Click to expand...
A quality, correctly ported barrel will function just fine suppressed and unsuppressed. I would still stick with a "bomb proof," i.e. pinned, non-adjustable gas block. The SLR's have worked well in my experience. I have seen a lot of the adjustable offerings leak over time. The A5 carbine buffer kit OP has chosen will provide him a much simpler way to tune the gun to run well unsuppressed and suppressed. My evidence: Hodge 12.5" barrel/H2 buffer, SOLGW 12.5" barrel/A5H3 buffer, Centurion 12.5" barrel A5H3 Buffer, DD 10.3" barrel/H3 buffer, DD 16" barrel/H2 Buffer all run extremely well suppressed and unsuppressed, with Sandman K/Vox S. Only somewhat gassy one is the DD 10.3" barrel, but it is the smaller .070 porting. I have a Radian SD on it, and have never really had an issue with it feeling too overgassed, just more so than the others. The Criterion barrel he has chosen will likely have a .0760 gas port, which is actually smaller than the KAC Legacy and Mod 2 16" offerings. I am sure he will have a really soft shooting gun with an A5H1/H0 and will have no need to adjust the gas.

The Radian CH is sure nice, but the SD model doesnt really do too much in my experience. I still prefer it to all except the Badger Ordnance offering.

I would echo what others have said; go with a 14.5" barrel, and run the suppressor for HD. Your ears and family will thank you.
 
Reekus said:
A quality, correctly ported barrel will function just fine suppressed and unsuppressed. I would still stick with a "bomb proof," i.e. pinned, non-adjustable gas block. The SLR's have worked well in my experience. I have seen a lot of the adjustable offerings leak over time. The A5 carbine buffer kit OP has chosen will provide him a much simpler way to tune the gun to run well unsuppressed and suppressed. My evidence: Hodge 12.5" barrel/H2 buffer, SOLGW 12.5" barrel/A5H3 buffer, Centurion 12.5" barrel A5H3 Buffer, DD 10.3" barrel/H3 buffer, DD 16" barrel/H2 Buffer all run extremely well suppressed and unsuppressed, with Sandman K/Vox S. Only somewhat gassy one is the DD 10.3" barrel, but it is the smaller .070 porting. I have a Radian SD on it, and have never really had an issue with it feeling too overgassed, just more so than the others. The Criterion barrel he has chosen will likely have a .0760 gas port, which is actually smaller than the KAC Legacy and Mod 2 16" offerings. I am sure he will have a really soft shooting gun with an A5H1/H0 and will have no need to adjust the gas.

The Radian CH is sure nice, but the SD model doesnt really do too much in my experience. I still prefer it to all except the Badger Ordnance offering.

I would echo what others have said; go with a 14.5" barrel, and run the suppressor for HD. Your ears and family will thank you.
Click to expand...
$100 for a charging handle seems silly to me, to each there own as this is my opinion, ...better bang for your buck elsewhere in the system is my point. As for 14.5 barrel, unless pinning muzzle device or pistol, adds more cost for Form 1.

Please share you personal experience on leaking gas blocks. I'm seriously interested as I have a barrel order in with Craddock precision and have one added to my order.
 
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Lil Casino said:
$100 for a charging handle seems silly to me, to each there own as this is my opinion, ...better bang for your buck elsewhere in the system is my point. As for 14.5 barrel, unless pinning muzzle device or pistol, adds more cost for Form 1.

Please share you personal experience on leaking gas blocks. I'm seriously interested as I have a barrel order in with Craddock precision and have one added to my order.
Click to expand...

Pinning isnt a big deal IMO, but if you can front the Form 1 $200, they are coming back within a month these days in my experience.

To each their own on the CH. Just dont buy a wish.com repro, those are junk.

As for the leaking gas block, I don't have any personal objective evidence on my work computer, but in my experience they are more prone to leakage issues. The same could be said about a poorly installed non-adjustable, too. I dont see the benefit, personally. To me, its easy to buy an SLR jig, and at least dimple your barrel/correctly align the GB, and if you want to take it a step further, get a pinning jig and pin the GB. I'd rather that critical dimension be very securely fastened, and then adjust the operation of the gun with fine tuning the buffer according to the gas porting of the particular barrel. I'd rather not have the possibility of having more wear on a moving part, when I can keep that entire assembly aligned and fixed for the duration of abuse, especially in the case of OP, where this may be his only rifle he relies on for an extended period of time. I also would advise at looking at Springco springs, and picking out the appropriate one to the aforementioned barrel porting/buffer weight chosen. I am sure SOTAR, BRH, P&S and other reputable pages have some more objective evidence on the matter more than my personal experience. FWIW, I suppose. Absolutely not trying to shitpost, or not provide evidence. But I can at least tell you why I do what I do.

ETA: I guess my point is I would much rather just have my barrel, gas block, and buffer all matched to work together suppressed/unsuppressed. I am not a fan of having to really tune a gun, especially if its a long term, one time purchase where I am looking to not spend more than I have too. So, my formula is to look at the barrel porting, length, suppressed/unsuppressed use, and match that up to the proper buffer/spring combo.
 
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FatBoy said:
The 16" chrome lined will be fine for close work. 300y, maybe 500 if it's a nice barrel but IMO you're going to be struggling beyond that. No way it's going to 1000y supersonic. Probably not 750. That's OK, as long as you're OK with that.

That said, you could always spend a few hundred down the road on a 6.5 Grendal upper. That will get you there at 20-22".
Click to expand...

It's a 0-600 yard gun using good quality ammo. Anything beyond that would just be for fun and not expecting any serious accuracy.

I have an Aero M5 lower ready for that build later on. I am building this one up first because i am holding out hope that nightforce will update their ATACR lineup in the next year or two. The NX8 2.5x20 would have been perfect if not for the issues with parallax.

Also it would be hard to justify a 6.5 Creedmoor for home defense lol

Reekus said:
A quality, correctly ported barrel will function just fine suppressed and unsuppressed. I would still stick with a "bomb proof," i.e. pinned, non-adjustable gas block. The SLR's have worked well in my experience. I have seen a lot of the adjustable offerings leak over time. The A5 carbine buffer kit OP has chosen will provide him a much simpler way to tune the gun to run well unsuppressed and suppressed. My evidence: Hodge 12.5" barrel/H2 buffer, SOLGW 12.5" barrel/A5H3 buffer, Centurion 12.5" barrel A5H3 Buffer, DD 10.3" barrel/H3 buffer, DD 16" barrel/H2 Buffer all run extremely well suppressed and unsuppressed, with Sandman K/Vox S. Only somewhat gassy one is the DD 10.3" barrel, but it is the smaller .070 porting. I have a Radian SD on it, and have never really had an issue with it feeling too overgassed, just more so than the others. The Criterion barrel he has chosen will likely have a .0760 gas port, which is actually smaller than the KAC Legacy and Mod 2 16" offerings. I am sure he will have a really soft shooting gun with an A5H1/H0 and will have no need to adjust the gas.

The Radian CH is sure nice, but the SD model doesnt really do too much in my experience. I still prefer it to all except the Badger Ordnance offering.

I would echo what others have said; go with a 14.5" barrel, and run the suppressor for HD. Your ears and family will thank you.
Click to expand...

You nailed it on the head with the adjustable gas block.

striped1 said:
Why would you take off a suppressor and muzzle device for a home defense rifle. If you ever have to shoot that rifle within your home, the Deadair will be appreciated.
Click to expand...

John Lovell answered that question much better than I can in his video about it.
I very much well might change my mind after I get one in which case I will be going for a 12.5 SBR.
 
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You'll be fine with a good LPVO, even inside. I would augment it with a good, durable weapon light, though.

I see John's point on the suppressor, and I go both ways with it. Neither are wrong answers IMO.

Ill say again, if you do want a really rigid handguard, I'd look at Centurion. You can get a CMR handguard for slightly more than the Atlas, but have a super rigid and durable handguard. Just a thought. You can find used Geissele, BCM or KAC rails for relatively the same cost too if you keep your ear to the ground.
 
Reekus said:
The Geissele rail will not work with the BCM Mk 2 receiver. I believe the anti-rotation tabs do not work the different geometry of the upper, is the problem. I would look into other good options for rails like Centurion, BCM, KAC, etc. I personally would just go with something like a BCM BCG, I dont see the Cryptic offering you anything other than aesthetics.
Click to expand...

The Geissele MK 4 will work with the BCM MK2 upper. If he wants a thinner rail the MK14 will work or the BCM MCMR.
 
I'll throw my hat into the ring with my $.02, for what you're looking to do I wouldn't build, I'd buy.

Less than $1,000 gets you a BCM Mk2 upper with a 16" mid-length barrel, gas block, gas tube, BCG, ambi-charging handle, MLOK handguard, and a free muzzle device. That's $200 under what you've got going up above to build the upper and it will more than likely be built right. That's $200 saved for rail covers, light mount, scope mount weapon light, etc...

Also, and just my opinion, you don't need the A5 set up with a mid-length 16" barrel, you'll be fine with a standard carbine RE set up and you can still tune it with different buffer weights, only they're cheaper than A5 buffers. Again, BCM has kits available with either the Mod 0 and Mod 1 stocks for $120-$130, significantly cheaper than the Vltor set up above. I have a Vltor stock and both BCM Gunfighter stocks and love the Gunfighters more because they have a better lock up and don't have the seam to pull whiskers out of my face. You'll save another $100.

The trigger is fine, I like Geissele triggers and the LPK will probably be fine too, but if you want save some more LaRue MBT triggers are pretty good for the money. That's my take on it, take it or leave it. Good luck.
 
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For under $2000 you could buy a brand new complete LMT MLR or MRP rifle and have a way better rifle than that hodgepodge list of parts. Then add a 18” or 20” SS barrel to it for long range since the barrel swaps in a couple minutes by removing two screws. You can also get their 224V barrel for a long range solution too.

For $1000 you can find used LMT MRP rifles too but they’re pretty much all going to be MRP CQB length receivers. I’d still take one of those over what you’re specing.
 
Shooter McGavin said:
I stand corrected
Click to expand...
This was a common problem on some VLTOR receivers, too, for various rails. Cy Sensenbach is the only smith/machinist I know of who has done custom work to make the rails fit, but IMO the juice isn't worth the squeeze. For me, any perceived benefit the Mk2 upper has to offer is negated by the fact you are limited on options of rail choices.
 
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Trigger Monkey said:
I'll throw my hat into the ring with my $.02, for what you're looking to do I wouldn't build, I'd buy.

Less than $1,000 gets you a BCM Mk2 upper with a 16" mid-length barrel, gas block, gas tube, BCG, ambi-charging handle, MLOK handguard, and a free muzzle device. That's $200 under what you've got going up above to build the upper and it will more than likely be built right. That's $200 saved for rail covers, light mount, scope mount weapon light, etc...

Also, and just my opinion, you don't need the A5 set up with a mid-length 16" barrel, you'll be fine with a standard carbine RE set up and you can still tune it with different buffer weights, only they're cheaper than A5 buffers. Again, BCM has kits available with either the Mod 0 and Mod 1 stocks for $120-$130, significantly cheaper than the Vltor set up above. I have a Vltor stock and both BCM Gunfighter stocks and love the Gunfighters more because they have a better lock up and don't have the seam to pull whiskers out of my face. You'll save another $100.

The trigger is fine, I like Geissele triggers and the LPK will probably be fine too, but if you want save some more LaRue MBT triggers are pretty good for the money. That's my take on it, take it or leave it. Good luck.
Click to expand...

My initial plan was to get a BCM SS410 KD4 (mainly for the nitriding on the barrel) upper however due to the reports of QC and hit/miss accuracy I decided against it especially considering criterion has a reputation for making MOA shooters with chrome lining.

If the new Mk2 uppers are not having this issue then they are likely where my money will go and the money I save from it will be put towards a small black hills MK262 stockpile.however I really do want this gun to be MOA or less for its longer range uses and would prefer not to spend that much money on an upper only to have to rebarell it for my uses.
 
I'm assuming you have the few hundred in tools already and the know how to do this correctly. Reasons for building are saving money if have the tools and build or plan to build several, wanna bed barrels and face uppers, need for specific gear, etc.

For $1836 you could by a very nice rifle, ready to go. Shit, maybe even a KAC SR15.

I agree, there is a lot of extraneous shit on that list.

All of the rifles below you can bet your life on and are high end throughout, better than the shit on your list and it still doesn't cost $1836 for the base rifle. I also collect parts when they're on sale when I can, not the moment before I need 'em. I'd NEVER pay $240 for a Geissele trigger --unless it was a High Speed on sale. FWIW, every rifle I have that they make a trigger for has one in it, including an SR25 (the $330 trigger that it came with pales in comparison to a Geissele Hi-Speed, though it's close but more rugged than a plain SSA).

Lilja USN Recce M4 barrel, KAC rifle length FF rail, Geissele SSA-E, Geissele gas block, JP FMOS BCG. Receivers are Noveske I think. It has an ACOG on it now. The JP FMOS may sound like a splurge, but it's the key to reliability in my rifles. They'll work dirty and dry and the bolts are way better than stock ones. Bear in mind many high end barrel mfg.'s use JP bolts now when headspacing new barrels.
IMG_0730.JPG


I just finished this one. Krieger barrel (this on and the above are both Wylde, above is 1/8, this one is 1/7.7). Same Geissele shit and JP FMOS BCG. URX4 mlok, Mk4 MR/T in a Badger mount. MUR1 upper and KAC lower. All have JP small parts and SOPMOD stocks. Oh, Magpul MIAD grips and trigger guards. Can is a Sico Saker. It has good performance and is a solid, relatively cheap can that locks up well. Lots of options for 'em too. And they don't add a bunch of length either, maybe 4" or so?
IMG_1300.JPG


Finally an SBR compared to a Tavor. It's 11.5", the AR. It probably costs as much as the one on top since it uses a lot of the same shit. But that Tavor (this one is 9mm...) is the same length, no tax stamp, superior for CQB and you can take it out to the range and expect about as much from it as you could a milspec M4. You won't be shooting 1000m with any of these rifles, and 600 is a stretch unless you know what you're doing (I'm a former SDM instructor and the guy that wrote the ballistics section for the original courses at Ft. Lewis if that matters). These weapons were designed to work with a 25m/300m zero (or some other equally binary zero that takes advantage of the trajectory of the round for a close and long range zero with a relatively small max. ordinate of around a foot @ ~200m).
IMG_1289.JPG


Judging by your post I'm sorta doubting you'll be tagging shit at 600, let alone 1k with a carbine, and I kinda doubt you have the appropriate gear and know how to do this properly and come out with something better than store bought. Please don't take this the wrong way, we've all been there.

IMO a Tavor would do all you need and you can score a SAR for probably $1400. Little more for an X95 if you gotta have the new one. Look on Gunbroker and you can probably score one with the trigger upgrade and all for same as MSRP. It's something to consider if HD is an issue and you want something reliable. I really fell in love with it, and my buddy, another infantry vet, actually likes it better than the M4 he toted. That's a LOT coming from him mind you, but I see where he's coming from. It's got a lot going for it. I wouldn't invest in more than a dot for one though, maybe an ACOG or magnifier if you gotta have it.

For $1836, you are well within the price range for a Noveske rifle. They probably make the best "plain jane" type AR out there. Rugged, lightweight, accurate, they just get it done. LMT makes a good rifle too. You can also get a KAC upper and put together a stripped KAC lower and have a complete KAC rifle with a higher resale value to boot, same goes with Noveske. Just so you know, your $1836 in parts assembled and sold in the PX here is just another $1k rifle... A complete "factory build" or one that uses all factory parts so as to appear as a factory build will always be worth more unless you find someone wanting that exact rifle --and trusting you built it right.

I really swear by pinned gas blocks. Noveske barrels come with a gas block already pinned on, something to consider. I've seen these others literally blow off the goddamn barrel before in trials. Fuck that noise. Adj.blocks are also something else that can seize up, fuck up or just plain not work right. If it doesn't work with a regular gas block suppressed or not and reliably every time, then something else is fucked up and your gas block is just a band aid. Only adj. block worth a fuck IMO is the Noveske switchblock, it's simple but really, IMO, still unnecessary.

5.56 doesn't really overpenetrate shit, it blows up (fragments) the moment it hits something dense and wet or hard. It's probably one of the safest rounds to use indoors, a 9mm will actually over penetrate more IME (I'm referring to exterior walls mind you, anything lethal will pass through drywall as if weren't there). KE vs. momentum. In any case, HP's help. I just use M855 though and call it good but M193 will come apart even faster if FMJ's are where you wanna go. As for the can, why the fuck wouldn't you use it for HD? If it's a "good shoot" then it doesn't matter what tools you used to accomplish it, an NFA registerd DD full auto 20mm cannon is fine as long as the intruder is in your AO and there are signs of forced entry.

Since you're suppressing, why not consider .300BLK? AAC had some decent uppers w/KAC rails, I don't know if they still do. They always run sales so wait if they do.

Why not build a lower, since you have one, something you can do with a minimum of tools (a set of good punches and a set of starter punches). Then buy a good upper. Or sell your lower and get a complete rifle.

Too much of the parts available today are gucci shit IMO, and for whatever reason, the only "cool shit" down the road always tends to be the high end stock versions or issue variants.

Good luck man!
 
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RTV said:
My initial plan was to get a BCM SS410 KD4 (mainly for the nitriding on the barrel) upper however due to the reports of QC and hit/miss accuracy I decided against it especially considering criterion has a reputation for making MOA shooters with chrome lining.

If the new Mk2 uppers are not having this issue then they are likely where my money will go and the money I save from it will be put towards a small black hills MK262 stockpile.however I really do want this gun to be MOA or less for its longer range uses and would prefer not to spend that much money on an upper only to have to rebarell it for my uses.
Click to expand...

I don't shoot their SS barrels for similar reasons but their hammer forged barrels are pretty legit, with an Aimpoint and mixed 5.56 ammo hitting a chest sized plate at 300 yards wasn't much of an issue. The question you need to ask is "am I really capable of shooting MOA or less with said combination and hitting reliably at 600 yards?" I don't know you or your capabilities but it seems like you're pretty new to all of this because you appear to have dueling objectives for this rifle with it needing to be a HD gun, as well as a mid-range plinker, and also a sometimes hunting rifle. Those roles demand different things from a rifle, whether it's optics, accessories, or in the set up but the first thing that I'd do is figure out the 80/20 split. Meaning 80% of the time it's going to be used as _____, the other 20% of the time it should be able to _______ and _______. Focus on making that gun really good in that role that it'll see 80% of the time, if it's HD, then focus on a good light, quality components, and learning to run it well with ammo suited to the role, the rest will follow along.
 
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Strykervet said:
I'm assuming you have the few hundred in tools already and the know how to do this correctly. Reasons for building are saving money if have the tools and build or plan to build several, wanna bed barrels and face uppers, need for specific gear, etc.

For $1836 you could by a very nice rifle, ready to go. Shit, maybe even a KAC SR15.

I agree, there is a lot of extraneous shit on that list.

All of the rifles below you can bet your life on and are high end throughout, better than the shit on your list and it still doesn't cost $1836 for the base rifle. I also collect parts when they're on sale when I can, not the moment before I need 'em. I'd NEVER pay $240 for a Geissele trigger --unless it was a High Speed on sale. FWIW, every rifle I have that they make a trigger for has one in it, including an SR25 (the $330 trigger that it came with pales in comparison to a Geissele Hi-Speed, though it's close but more rugged than a plain SSA).

Lilja USN Recce M4 barrel, KAC rifle length FF rail, Geissele SSA-E, Geissele gas block, JP FMOS BCG. Receivers are Noveske I think. It has an ACOG on it now. The JP FMOS may sound like a splurge, but it's the key to reliability in my rifles. They'll work dirty and dry and the bolts are way better than stock ones. Bear in mind many high end barrel mfg.'s use JP bolts now when headspacing new barrels.
View attachment 7324038

I just finished this one. Krieger barrel (this on and the above are both Wylde, above is 1/8, this one is 1/7.7). Same Geissele shit and JP FMOS BCG. URX4 mlok, Mk4 MR/T in a Badger mount. MUR1 upper and KAC lower. All have JP small parts and SOPMOD stocks. Oh, Magpul MIAD grips and trigger guards. Can is a Sico Saker. It has good performance and is a solid, relatively cheap can that locks up well. Lots of options for 'em too. And they don't add a bunch of length either, maybe 4" or so?
View attachment 7324040

Finally an SBR compared to a Tavor. It's 11.5", the AR. It probably costs as much as the one on top since it uses a lot of the same shit. But that Tavor (this one is 9mm...) is the same length, no tax stamp, superior for CQB and you can take it out to the range and expect about as much from it as you could a milspec M4. You won't be shooting 1000m with any of these rifles, and 600 is a stretch unless you know what you're doing (I'm a former SDM instructor and the guy that wrote the ballistics section for the original courses at Ft. Lewis if that matters). These weapons were designed to work with a 25m/300m zero (or some other equally binary zero that takes advantage of the trajectory of the round for a close and long range zero with a relatively small max. ordinate of around a foot @ ~200m).
View attachment 7324041

Judging by your post I'm sorta doubting you'll be tagging shit at 600, let alone 1k with a carbine, and I kinda doubt you have the appropriate gear and know how to do this properly and come out with something better than store bought. Please don't take this the wrong way, we've all been there.

IMO a Tavor would do all you need and you can score a SAR for probably $1400. Little more for an X95 if you gotta have the new one. Look on Gunbroker and you can probably score one with the trigger upgrade and all for same as MSRP. It's something to consider if HD is an issue and you want something reliable. I really fell in love with it, and my buddy, another infantry vet, actually likes it better than the M4 he toted. That's a LOT coming from him mind you, but I see where he's coming from. It's got a lot going for it. I wouldn't invest in more than a dot for one though, maybe an ACOG or magnifier if you gotta have it.

For $1836, you are well within the price range for a Noveske rifle. They probably make the best "plain jane" type AR out there. Rugged, lightweight, accurate, they just get it done. LMT makes a good rifle too. You can also get a KAC upper and put together a stripped KAC lower and have a complete KAC rifle with a higher resale value to boot, same goes with Noveske. Just so you know, your $1836 in parts assembled and sold in the PX here is just another $1k rifle... A complete "factory build" or one that uses all factory parts so as to appear as a factory build will always be worth more unless you find someone wanting that exact rifle --and trusting you built it right.

I really swear by pinned gas blocks. Noveske barrels come with a gas block already pinned on, something to consider. I've seen these others literally blow off the goddamn barrel before in trials. Fuck that noise. Adj.blocks are also something else that can seize up, fuck up or just plain not work right. If it doesn't work with a regular gas block suppressed or not and reliably every time, then something else is fucked up and your gas block is just a band aid. Only adj. block worth a fuck IMO is the Noveske switchblock, it's simple but really, IMO, still unnecessary.

5.56 doesn't really overpenetrate shit, it blows up (fragments) the moment it hits something dense and wet or hard. It's probably one of the safest rounds to use indoors, a 9mm will actually over penetrate more IME (I'm referring to exterior walls mind you, anything lethal will pass through drywall as if weren't there). KE vs. momentum. In any case, HP's help. I just use M855 though and call it good but M193 will come apart even faster if FMJ's are where you wanna go. As for the can, why the fuck wouldn't you use it for HD? If it's a "good shoot" then it doesn't matter what tools you used to accomplish it, an NFA registerd DD full auto 20mm cannon is fine as long as the intruder is in your AO and there are signs of forced entry.

Since you're suppressing, why not consider .300BLK? AAC had some decent uppers w/KAC rails, I don't know if they still do. They always run sales so wait if they do.

Why not build a lower, since you have one, something you can do with a minimum of tools (a set of good punches and a set of starter punches). Then buy a good upper. Or sell your lower and get a complete rifle.

Too much of the parts available today are gucci shit IMO, and for whatever reason, the only "cool shit" down the road always tends to be the high end stock versions or issue variants.

Good luck man!
Click to expand...

My main reason for building is so I can get rifle with the barrel I want the trigger I want and the VLTOR/ BCM A5 system (not picky on brand)
For barrel I am looking for a medium profile barrel in the 27-32 Oz range preferably CHF but settled on chrome because of how good the criterion core is (and their barrels are ported for suppressed unsuppresed use.

I have yet to find a factory rifle that meets that and yes I know I am being picky.

The rest of the parts I dont really care for I just dont want to F*k the build by choosing dumb stuff.
Based on responses in this thread I am going to switch to a BCM BCG and look into rails a bit more.

Also I will be having the upper assembled for me by a local smith who I have talked to and we agree on a lot of stuff.

I am not new to ARs Im just from california and by the time I was old enough to get one they had already passed the new laws banning a bullet button making you go featureless and it just wasnt worth it to me. I grew up shooting them though and my favorite thing to do was to try and shoot clay pigeons at 400 yards (max our range would do)

Now I live in WA and a 1000 yard range is 20min away.


Thank you for your response and everyone else I am going to have to look into all of this some more. Defenitly going to be making some price cuts and try to drop the price down to 1400 max.
 
RTV said:
I never noticed they make their own CHF barrels that is a REALLY enticing option.

Any reports on accuracy?
Click to expand...

I got one but I haven't done anything with it, still in the box. I only got it because it was $200 off (!) and needed a good SBR barrel.

I normally use their SS barrels exclusively in my SBR's though and they're all about 1MOA. Noveske makes good shit, it's why I use 'em. It's why I recommend you should highly consider one of their stock rifles.

Here's one, an SBR though:

IMG_0849.JPG


Here's another rifle that cost maybe $1300ish. Minus the optic.
IMG_0922.JPG


Oh, if you're gonna use any charging handle than a stock one, it's gotta be a PRI Gasbuster. I think there may be some other lower cost options, I don't know, but know none of them actually stop gas face, they just help keep it from going up the nose so bad (that shit burns and tears up the eyes). Only really a problem with the can on, just the nature of the beast with a DI gas system.

And that's another thing to consider. With a stock purchase you may be able to get a rifle with a piston setup (hence no gas face to worry about or expensive charging handles). Or fuck it, get a SCAR16. You got a LOT of options dude.
 
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Trigger Monkey said:
I don't shoot their SS barrels for similar reasons but their hammer forged barrels are pretty legit, with an Aimpoint and mixed 5.56 ammo hitting a chest sized plate at 300 yards wasn't much of an issue. The question you need to ask is "am I really capable of shooting MOA or less with said combination and hitting reliably at 600 yards?" I don't know you or your capabilities but it seems like you're pretty new to all of this because you appear to have dueling objectives for this rifle with it needing to be a HD gun, as well as a mid-range plinker, and also a sometimes hunting rifle. Those roles demand different things from a rifle, whether it's optics, accessories, or in the set up but the first thing that I'd do is figure out the 80/20 split. Meaning 80% of the time it's going to be used as _____, the other 20% of the time it should be able to _______ and _______. Focus on making that gun really good in that role that it'll see 80% of the time, if it's HD, then focus on a good light, quality components, and learning to run it well with ammo suited to the role, the rest will follow along.
Click to expand...

Good advice and I'm not new to ARs. This is just my personal first one however I have grown up shooting. And I have spent a LOT of time shooting clay pigeons at 400 yards. I am not a pro by any means and i am anticipating that it will be a big jump to go from 400 to 600.

I lived in CA before however and before I turned 18 they passed a bunch of new laws banning bullet buttons and making you go "featureless" or make it so the mag can only be dropped with the upper separated from the lower.
At that point it wasnt really worth it to me however now that I live in WA it is back on the table and I am a firm believer in buy once cry once.
 
Strykervet said:
Oh, if you're gonna use any charging handle than a stock one, it's gotta be a PRI Gasbuster. I think there may be some other lower cost options, I don't know, but know none of them actually stop gas face, they just help keep it from going up the nose so bad (that shit burns and tears up the eyes). Only really a problem with the can on, just the nature of the beast with a DI gas system.
Click to expand...

PRI Gasbuster is a motorola razr among iphone x's in the world of CH's nowadays. A properly ported barrel is the best starting point, and the Radian SD is a much better, ambi option. Even then, having a good barrel, mated to a good buffer system will almost mitigate any need for a "gas-busting" style CH.
 
Reekus said:
PRI Gasbuster is a motorola razr among iphone x's in the world of CH's nowadays. A properly ported barrel is the best starting point, and the Radian SD is a much better, ambi option. Even then, having a good barrel, mated to a good buffer system will almost mitigate any need for a "gas-busting" style CH.
Click to expand...


It's a charging handle and it's better than a stock one in so many ways...

I agree, you gotta have all the appropriate shit for it to function properly and I guess that's what I'm getting at. For 20 years I've been building and shooting and for a time, instructing, the use of accurate but above all, reliable combat weapons. If it doesn't go "bang" it doesn't matter if it's a subMOA rifle or not. If it doesn't get the job done and get you back home BEFORE needing work, may as well take a rock.

...I'd say more but my guts are really hurting me and I'm not feeling so well so I'm gonna have to back out now.

Good luck again to the OP!
 
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RTV said:
Spokane
Click to expand...

oh, other side of state.

Look down south of Hanford, just outside the fence and above the state line. I mapped out a range there on Google Earth that appears to be fairly flat and it's, get this, five fucking miles! BLM land I'm sure. Really wanna get the M2 out there some day.

Really gotta go though, good luck man, pay attention to guys on here, they all know their shit even if we don't always agree (that's because there's more than one way to skin a cat I guess).
 
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RTV said:
I never noticed they make their own CHF barrels that is a REALLY enticing option.

Any reports on accuracy?
Click to expand...

I don't have a report on the accuracy of their barrels. I was thinking of getting this when I saw it, but I have a shit ton of ARs and I have a Tac Ops payment coming up, so I'll have to unload some ARs in the future to make room in the safe. I am surprise there aren't any reports out as these rifles have been out for a while.
 
SR-15... replace the trigger with a Geissele, sell the trigger and sights, put on the accessories you want and shoot a lot.
 
Shooter McGavin said:
Here's one I found:

Geissele Super Duty Rifle Review - AR15.COM

Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.
www.ar15.com www.ar15.com
Click to expand...
There has been a whole lot of drama on the "Geissele Master Race" group on FB surrounding the accuracy reports. I cancelled my 11.5" SD URG black friday order after a 13 week wait, so I couldnt tell you personally. Some people were getting sub moa, some were getting 4 moa. Then some people were pleased with the purchase, like the above reviewer. I do however know they raised the prices on the full rifles significantly in the last two weeks.
 
Hmm interesting.

Based on the suggestions of the forum I have made some edits.

BCG 189$: BCM BCG
Rail: BCM MCMR 15"
Gas block/tube 60$: BCM gas block and tube

This way the core of the rifle minus barrel all comes from BCM which should remove the risk of mix matches parts. Also should save a good amount of money

Any thoughts on this?
 
Reekus said:
There has been a whole lot of drama on the "Geissele Master Race" group on FB surrounding the accuracy reports. I cancelled my 11.5" SD URG black friday order after a 13 week wait, so I couldnt tell you personally. Some people were getting sub moa, some were getting 4 moa. Then some people were pleased with the purchase, like the above reviewer. I do however know they raised the prices on the full rifles significantly in the last two weeks.
Click to expand...

Yeah, read some of that too. People do the same with BCM. I like BCM stuff and never had a problem with their stuff and accuracy has been good for what I use it for. I think a lot of people get caught up on accuracy and want .5 MOA out of a rifle. Hell I have Robinson XCRs and they get trashed all the time and I have never had a problem. The only rifle I ever had a problem with was POF and they fixed it, even though it took the two times to get it done.

BTW, a lot of people can't shoot. I saw a guy at the range just struggling to hit his target with DPMS; he started bitching about it and what a piece of shit it was. He had the shop were he purchased the rifle put the scope on it and bitched about them too. BTW, the scope looked ridiculous to me because the scope was so big on an AR15. I got behind it and drop three rounds center mass around .5 MOA. He packed up and left, never saw him again.

Anyway maybe time will tell on the Super Duty.
 
RTV said:
Hmm interesting.

Based on the suggestions of the forum I have made some edits.

BCG 189$: BCM BCG
Rail: BCM MCMR 15"
Gas block/tube 60$: BCM gas block and tube

This way the core of the rifle minus barrel all comes from BCM which should remove the risk of mix matches parts. Also should save a good amount of money

Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

I like BCM, so I say go for it. Might as well get a BCM charging handle.
 
Reekus said:
PRI Gasbuster is a motorola razr among iphone x's in the world of CH's nowadays. A properly ported barrel is the best starting point, and the Radian SD is a much better, ambi option. Even then, having a good barrel, mated to a good buffer system will almost mitigate any need for a "gas-busting" style CH.
Click to expand...
No its not. Its still the best one out there and most of the modern ambi charging handles are strait garbage. The Gas buster was designed for suppressed use and still is the best mousetrap out there. The barrel has nothing to do with it, other than the gas port size. Its a gas system issue.

Anyone who learned to shoot nose to charging handle, understands what I'm talking about.

Ambi charging handles are fucking stupid and are a solution looking for a problem.
 
RyanScott said:
SR-15... replace the trigger with a Geissele, sell the trigger and sights, put on the accessories you want and shoot a lot.
Click to expand...
The SR15 already comes with a trigger that is better than any G trigger on the market, short of the Hi Speed. And then its so close its almost indiscernible.

They also come with the best BUIS on the market. Stupid advice.
 
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