- Thread starter elfster1234
- Start date
Good video, thanks for doing these (although a little long).
I think the inserts are definitely the way to go on those.
Has anyone actually been able to show that a 0.04-0.08gr over or under desired charge weight will actually throw a flier at long range? And if so, how much?
I think the inserts are definitely the way to go on those.
Has anyone actually been able to show that a 0.04-0.08gr over or under desired charge weight will actually throw a flier at long range? And if so, how much?
Worth a read
Accuracy
I am often asked which scale I recommend, and whether the A&D FX is precise enough for long range shooting. This article aims to answer these questions: Is it really worth my time to perfect every...
www.autotrickler.com
Sorry about the length, I felt the need to make it un-edited as I would never hear the end of it from the naysayers.... glad you enjoyed the video
Yes, someone has . . . me
:The difference can be inches at 1000 yds and how much depends on the caliber as well as other factors, including the velocity one is getting.
As one may already know, that the ChargeMaster will be more consistent with some powders than other, much as illustrated above. AR-Comp has regularly been more easy for my to get consistent weights than other powders I've used. And I suppose it's the large extruded powders like IMR 4064 that make it difficult as larger clumps will fall from the tube that ChargeMaster either doesn't register or will show as an overthrow. In the above chart I simply set my ChargeMaster a weight and took whatever I got and weighed it on a GemPro 250 that I've had for a long time that has a resolution to .02 to see what weight I got.
For me, more than accuracy, the goal is consistency. Whatever the amount is, I want it to be the same (or as close to it as I can get) for every cartridge every time I go to shoot.
Last edited:
No worries, always nice to see a side by side, and makes sense that the scale becomes a little more accurate when trickling onto it.
Like anything, it’s about consistency. So if you can just barely trickle into the error range of the chargemaster, And do it consistently, then you’d have a more consistent charge across all rounds
Yes, someone has . . . me
View attachment 7448262
As one may already know, that the ChargeMaster will be more consistent with some powders than other, much as illustrated above. AR-Comp has regularly been more easy for my to get consistent weights than other powders I've used. And I suppose it's the large extruded powders like IMR 4064 that make it difficult as larger clumps will fall from the tube that ChargeMaster either doesn't register or will show as an overthrow. In the above chart I simply set my ChargeMaster a weight and took whatever I got and weighed it on a GemPro 250 that I've had for a long time that has a resolution to .02 to see what weight I got.
For me, more than accuracy, the goal is consistency. Whatever the amount is, I want it to be the same (or as close to it as I can get) for every cartridge every time I go to shoot.
That’s not what he asked. He asked if anyone has shown whether a +\- .04 charge will show up as a flier down range.
The whole point of load development is to find a good velocity node that can absorb any small variance in charge weight/speed.
If 1 kernel of powder is roughly 1 fps, then being off a couple kernels of powder is not really going to result in a “flier” at distance.
It’s been beat to death that most people get the auto trickler for speed. Not for the increased consistency in charge weights. It’s well known that chargemaster can produce accurate ammo. The auto trickler can do it much faster
I agree with you that it's best to trickle up to get the most consistent/accurate weight measurement.
What works well for me is a long straw (preferably a clear one) that reaches all the way back where I can reduce the flow of powder into the tube. This helps with significantly reducing overthrows and getting more consistent throws. The reason I prefer a clear straw is so I can see the kernels and trickle what I might need by vibrating (lightly tapping) the tube a little to make a kernel or so drop as needed. This technique works well for me with my ChargeMaster as well and my frankford arsenal trickler.
You're right, and why I went back and tried to answer the question before I saw your response here.
How much a kernel effects a difference in velocity depends on the powder, huh? When there's a .04 - .08 over or under difference, that's a .08 - .16 spread. A .08 can be hard to detect on paper, but I've found a .16 spread can be at distance.
I feel my ChargeMaster does a very good job and was actually surprised how well it did as it tends to produce SD's in the mid to high teens and ES's in the mid to high 20's (for the most part depending on the powder I'm using). 25 fps spreads do show up, though doesn't matter for things like shoot steel, huh?
I went from a Hornandy auto charge to a V3.
I wasn’t suffering with the results I got with the Hornandy in my casual ELR shooting.
Speed was probably 75% of the basis of my decision to get the V3.
I was consistently getting 6-7 SD’s (absolutely no sorting or other funny business) with back to back 6 SD 10 shot strings.
I haven’t posted my V3 results yet because king salmon and steelhead season is going on and shooting is somewhat on hold.
I did have one 5 shot with an interesting SD with the V3 and my V3 shaves 20 seconds off of every throw.
This is extremely simple math. Do some testing with the .04-.08 and see what kind of muzzle velocity difference you have with that powder.
Then compare to the target size or accuracy requirement and see if it’s possible to be out of there with the different velocity.
It’s that simple.
Then compare to the target size or accuracy requirement and see if it’s possible to be out of there with the different velocity.
It’s that simple.
I just picked up a second hand chargemaster. I haven't tested it's accuracy yet but it has made reloading even more fun. By the time I have a bullet seated the next load is almost ready! After almost 3 years reloading it's by far my favorite purchase.
I thought the same about my Hornandy.
Really was a nice addition to my reloading.
So, just to be clear, my previous post with the weighing data was from a test to see which orifice in the ChargeMaster's tube would produce the better results and used my GemPro-250 to get a fine reading. You can see in the CM-1500 columns that there were some overthrows as I didn't redo any of the throws.
To get some idea of how my particular ChargeMaster unit does and how it compares to my GemPro-250 and how well my GemPro actually does I managed to get hold of an A&D FX-120i to pit them against. And since I'm was doing that, I did a run using my old trusty little Frankford Arsenal DS-750 to see where it stands comparatively.
I'm using a long straw in the ChargeMaster's tube that goes all the way back leaving a small gap for the power to enter the straw (a gap of about 1/16th to 1/8th inch, depending on the kernel size). I've also set my ChargeMaster up for pretty rapid throws, though I get an occasional overthrow, it's not very often and not by much (settings are: 10.00, 3.50, 0.50).
This second run surprised me as my GemPro-250 showed to be as consistent as the FX-120i and almost as accurate. And it shows the CM-1500 to be as accurate as expected. Surprisingly, my little DS-750 was pretty much in line with the CM-1500.
PS: now I've got some cartridges loaded up and the powder charges for each cartridge are recorded and will chrono them to see what kind of difference I get from charge to charge. And with each cartridge's powder weight I've weighed each cartridge's total weight. So, let's see how the numbers work out when I fire them this coming weekend.
Last edited:
Nice! It makes me feel better about not spending $1000+ for a scale and trickler when I'm just a casual shooter looking for reasonably consistent loads. Thanks for taking the time to record all that data.
Yeah, a ChargeMaster is plenty good for a casual shooter. IMHO
. . . unless one is so anal, like me.
What manual trickler and reducer are you using?
I'd rather not buy a new $100 trickler. I more wanted to know what insert that was to see if it would work in my current trickler.
Here's something you might try:
On my Frankford Arsenal Powder Trickler, I cut a 1" piece of clear straw and fit it over the end of the trickler's tube leaving 3/4" off the end. Then when I use it, I have it slightly tilted towards the tip by putting an old credit card under the bottom on the far side from the tip to get a little angle. Once I've got a flow going down the tube, I kinda vibrate the tube by tapping on the nob end either with hard taps or soft taps depending on how much I want to drop. Since the straw is clear I can see the powder move toward the end and I can control the amount to drop down to a single kernel with the light taps of the nob. If I want to make it flow faster, I tap vigorously. Seeing into to straw really helps in keeping control of the trickling.
When I got my ChargeMaster, my use of a long "clear" straw is much the same where I can see the flow and tap lightly to get a single kernel, if that what I need.
