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Sidearms & Scatterguns 1911s....How do you carry enough Magazines

pmclaine

pmclaine

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    • Nov 6, 2011
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    Going to take a class using a 1911.

    Magazines will be Wilson Combat 47CB 7 rounders.

    Took same class in August with a 10 round M&P and found myself scrambling between drills to top off my mags from loose rounds in my cargo pocket. Admittedly my mistake was to read class requirement of "3 magazines" as meaning just 3 magazines max, not minimum.

    Wont make that mistake again.

    I have one of these I can use to carry 8 1911 mags with 1 in the gun....63 rounds..

    1603622307521.png


    Part of my brain says I should keep my standard ammo carriers for familiarity....The Tuff products pouch presents the mags at an unfamiliar position and access is tight. I only really use it for mag transport attached to my range bag. Looks like its easy to fumble a mag pulling it from the pouch.

    I use TT and HSGI combos like these usually.....

    1603622615309.png


    Could run one mag in gun, two in combo pouches than load the dump pouch/cargo pockets with 5 more....

    Any thoughts from those that run limited mags and might need to shoot alot?

    Whats out there for 1911 ammo management?
     
    @pmclaine

    While I've never owned a 1911, my first year and a half of USPSA competition was in the Production division which limits magazines to 10 rounds and it wasn't unusual to find a stage where I needed to reload at least four times. That experience taught me a couple of things about ammo management:
    1. You want your magazines on the belt
    2. You want your magazines in pouches that don't encumber your access to them
    3. You want your magazines in about the same location on the belt as the ones you carry for defense
    4. You want your magazines presented in the same orientation as the ones you carry for defense
    In my case that meant four kydex clip-on mag pouches that carried the magazines vertically with the bullets facing forward. Eventually I ended up with a double layer competition belt rig with permanently attached pouches and holster but the mag pouch placement kept to the above principles.

    I like these pouches: https://blackdogconcealment.com/product/iwb-single-mag-carrier/

    They are advertised as IWB but they can be worn OWB as well since the body has screw holes for the clips on both sides, and I've used mine both ways.

    If you start at your hip bone, you should be able to fit five going all the way to the middle of your back. A small dump pouch or a leg pocket on your trousers with a few more loaded ones lets you refill the belt without leaving the line as often plus gives you a place to throw empty ones.
     
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    Familiarity and muscle memory has me favoring my current combo set up.

    The Tactical Tailor magnet pistol pouches and the HSGI tacos easily swallow my M&P stacked column magazines. I might be able to get two single stacks in each but I have visions of pulling one 1911 mag and seeing its partner fly out with it.

    Its training, never know what works till you try.

    I have a plate carrier and stupidly never train with it. Doing so would mitigate the issue as it supports three more pistol mag pouches paired with 30 rounder rifle mags. Also got one 20 rounder rifle mag as an "Oh shit Homey has only one mag left" indicator.

    @308pirate I see peeps that shoot the sporting comps with some real technical ammo support gear. The mags you post arent as "games" specific as others I have seen but Im trying to stay somewhat "tactical class" in what I use.

    I posted this picture....

    1603626547521.png


    in this thread...

    www.snipershide.com

    M45A1 serving on...

    Man thought all these were being retired. Marines hate them, all sorts of bad stuff to say about them. The G19 is the be all end all.... Someone tell these guys....Photo from 10/7/2020
    www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com

    We were speculating on if the back mag pouches was a way to carry more ammo for the exact gun Im considering using. Granted you wouldnt be able to access it but your buddy would - could see two guys tearing their friend apart to access the same ammo.

    Last poster in the thread may have solved the quandry by identifying their use as flash bang storage for Marine behind to use when stacked.
     
    pmclaine said:
    @308pirate I see peeps that shoot the sporting comps with some real technical ammo support gear. The mags you post arent as "games" specific as others I have seen but Im trying to stay somewhat "tactical class" in what I use.
    Click to expand...

    Right. The mission drives the gear.
     
    I have the same soft mag carrier but for belt use I like the Blade Tech, does the job but not for combat/comp use because
    you cannot secure the mags as tight as I would like in the carrier. OK for CCW though, fits nice and snug against your belt.
    IMG_1032.jpg
     
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    I got rid of my 1911's years ago, but when I would take a class with one, I would have two on my belt and hang a dump pouch full of magazines from my 6.
     
    slothlacrosse said:
    I got rid of my 1911's years ago, but when I would take a class with one, I would have two on my belt and hang a dump pouch full of magazines from my 6.
    Click to expand...

    Likely Ill be doing similar.

    Just keep feeding the mag pouches from a cargo pocket or the dump.

    That will keep my brain going to my usual place when the slide locks back.
     
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    pmclaine said:
    Likely Ill be doing similar.

    Just keep feeding the mag pouches from a cargo pocket or the dump.

    That will keep my brain going to my usual place when the slide locks back.
    Click to expand...
    What would you be doing with the empty mags? Leaving them where they drop? Shoving them in a pocket? Extra dump pouch?
     
    Son of Dorn said:
    What would you be doing with the empty mags? Leaving them where they drop? Shoving them in a pocket? Extra dump pouch?
    Click to expand...

    Depends on the drill.

    Either dropping them on the ground to recover when the drill is done or removing to the dump pouch and replacing with one topped off.

    Going to have to rely on my feels to determine which mags in the dump pouch have ammo still on board and which are MT. If Im feeding from a cargo pocket they should be considered full.

    Likely scenario is MT mags will be moved to the cargo pocket as that supply dwindles and mag pouches and dump pouch will be for the mags with ammo.

    Its training going to see if it works.

    Up until now all my class stuff has been with work guns.

    Doesnt make sense to me that often I carry my 1911s and havent ever trained with them.

    They and I need some exercise.
     
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    pmclaine said:
    Going to have to rely on my feels to determine which mags in the dump pouch have ammo still on board and which are MT. If Im feeding from a cargo pocket they should be considered full.
    Click to expand...
    That's what I was thinking about. Rummaging around for a fresh mag might be an unhappy surprise, especially if you have one only half-empty and you pull one out with fewer rounds in it that you need. And depending on the dump, how bulky/heavy is it gonna be swinging off your belt/carrier/what-have-you? But on the other hand, I don't see why it wouldn't be doable. Imperfect maybe but doable. Give it a try at home if you haven't already; put some empties in the dump with some fulls, jostle 'em around a bit, and see how well it goes.

    Any consideration to stacking 2 mags per 1 belt pouch, or do you (and others) think that'd be a bad idea? I'm pretty sure there are pouches available that'll hold 2x 1911 mags, if a little tightly. If it works, that'd be my starting point to consider (plus the pouches could be reused between other mag sizes/calibres, unlike that 8-mag pouch you got there).
     
    sinister said:
    For training belt, overt, or duty carry try a D&L quad pouch. Two take up the same space as two M4 mags:

    pic-2018-10-15-01149-quad-pouch-large.jpg
    Click to expand...


    These look nice.

    Two side by side in place of my AR/pistol combos would allow me 8 mags at the ready and an empty dump pouch.

    Muscle memory is still the same.

    Little cumbersome on ordering from them it looks like.

    Website seems pretty analog with the print and mail form, Ill see if they have an email.

    Any idea on pricing?

    But.......but.....black wont match my coyote gear!
     
    Last edited:
    Son of Dorn said:
    That's what I was thinking about. Rummaging around for a fresh mag might be an unhappy surprise, especially if you have one only half-empty and you pull one out with fewer rounds in it that you need. And depending on the dump, how bulky/heavy is it gonna be swinging off your belt/carrier/what-have-you? But on the other hand, I don't see why it wouldn't be doable. Imperfect maybe but doable. Give it a try at home if you haven't already; put some empties in the dump with some fulls, jostle 'em around a bit, and see how well it goes.

    Any consideration to stacking 2 mags per 1 belt pouch, or do you (and others) think that'd be a bad idea? I'm pretty sure there are pouches available that'll hold 2x 1911 mags, if a little tightly. If it works, that'd be my starting point to consider (plus the pouches could be reused between other mag sizes/calibres, unlike that 8-mag pouch you got there).
    Click to expand...

    A dump pouch with the "hang" of a bull sack is what I wanted to avoid.

    I have an ammo "phobia".

    I tend to whenever the opportunity presents walk off on my own to the ammo supply and top off whatever is lacking. Not used to doing thios as most of my range experience is under the "Mother May I" rules. Fuck that not asking anymore.

    Last week took a rifle class that had me managing AR mags and the M&P pistol mags. I carried extras of both and primarily the dump was the receptacle for empties as well as secondaries. It was pretty easy by feels to tell what had ammo and what didnt.

    Pistol wasnt a big deal because the amount of rounds fired was limited to transitioning after a malfunction, two pistol rounds or whatever was called for, than get the rifle back in action. 4 mags of 10 easily handled the pistol problems.

    I had 4-30 rounders and 2-20 rounders for rifle.

    I found myself when time allowed using the 20s like boxes of ammo stripping rounds to refill the 30s so more often than not the 30s were always full until the next reload break.

    Retarded.
     
    mewillis said:
    I have the same soft mag carrier but for belt use I like the Blade Tech, does the job but not for combat/comp use because
    you cannot secure the mags as tight as I would like in the carrier. OK for CCW though, fits nice and snug against your belt.
    View attachment 7453750
    Click to expand...

    Can someone explain to me the logic of having one magazine oriented completely opposite of the other?

    LOL
     
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    308pirate said:
    @pmclaine
    Go baller with one of these and pouches pointing bullets out. You can easily get seven all the way around

    View attachment 7453793
    Click to expand...


    'Merica.

    Seeing some other "Bullets Out" options, check out the AE Nelson, quad pouch for LEO duty use.

    It would seem strange compared to my usual get up.

    If I went that route the Tuff Products 8 mag carrier in molle would be my choice.
     
    308pirate said:
    Can someone explain to me the logic of having one magazine oriented completely opposite of the other?

    LOL
    Click to expand...


    For when you have transitioned to off hand and want to perform the dominant hand reach around for your next mag.
     
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    I think the best solution is to run your class setup as near to your defensive setup as you can. Im in LE, and anytime Im at the range I use a "training belt" that keeps my holster and mag pouches in the same spot -muscle memory and all that jazz. I genuinely see no point in training with a setup that would be different than what you would use defensively, if that is your context.

    To answer the question about carrying the spare mags... Id run however many you would normally carry defensively (2 belt + 1 in gun), and then run a handful of topped off mags in a pants cargo pocket. As you finish drills the empty mags would go in a dump pouch with loose ammo, and youd replace the empty mag pouch with a fresh mag. As time allows you could reach in the dump pouch and top off empty mags, then move to the cargo pocket. Rinse and repeat as necessary. While it may not be the MOST effective formula, it will be more beneficial than running pouches you will never use in a defensive capacity (assuming defensive fighting is your context).

    Also, sort of unrelated, but I think the pouch on the back of the Marine's plate carrier is a triple 40mm pouch... looks too small to be a flashbang pouch, and would make sense that a buddy could grab those if needed.
     
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    pmclaine said:
    A dump pouch with the "hang" of a bull sack is what I wanted to avoid.

    I have an ammo "phobia".

    I tend to whenever the opportunity presents walk off on my own to the ammo supply and top off whatever is lacking. Not used to doing thios as most of my range experience is under the "Mother May I" rules. Fuck that not asking anymore.

    Last week took a rifle class that had me managing AR mags and the M&P pistol mags. I carried extras of both and primarily the dump was the receptacle for empties as well as secondaries. It was pretty easy by feels to tell what had ammo and what didnt.

    Pistol wasnt a big deal because the amount of rounds fired was limited to transitioning after a malfunction, two pistol rounds or whatever was called for, than get the rifle back in action. 4 mags of 10 easily handled the pistol problems.

    I had 4-30 rounders and 2-20 rounders for rifle.

    I found myself when time allowed using the 20s like boxes of ammo stripping rounds to refill the 30s so more often than not the 30s were always full until the next reload break.

    Retarded.
    Click to expand...
    Esstac used to make a pouch that was more or less a nylon version of the one sinister suggested, but it seems to have been scrubbed from their inventory.

    There's the HSGI staggered double pistol taco:

    Duty Staggered Double Pistol TACO®

    www.highspeedgear.com www.highspeedgear.com

    The pistol pouches from ATS will hold 2x single-stack 1911s.
     
    Trade up to Wilson ETM 8 rounders with the square springs. by the time you are running 8 mags, you are getting one free!!! They work flawlessly as well.

    Its a good question since most "tactical" classes put a lot of rounds through your gun. Many more than reasonable, but it is good practice. Running one with a 1911 is not dumb, since if our new overlords have their way we might all be limited to ten rounds, and in that case, a 1911 is a no brainer. Interested to see what you come up with.
     
    308pirate said:
    Can someone explain to me the logic of having one magazine oriented completely opposite of the other?

    LOL
    Click to expand...
    Cause it looks cool!!! actually I was trying to tighten the tension on the mags to no avail and just
    happened they were oriented that way, but yes you are correct not logical, I pray this gives you comfort!!
     
    Spydey225 said:
    I think the best solution is to run your class setup as near to your defensive setup as you can. Im in LE, and anytime Im at the range I use a "training belt" that keeps my holster and mag pouches in the same spot -muscle memory and all that jazz. I genuinely see no point in training with a setup that would be different than what you would use defensively, if that is your context.

    To answer the question about carrying the spare mags... Id run however many you would normally carry defensively (2 belt + 1 in gun), and then run a handful of topped off mags in a pants cargo pocket. As you finish drills the empty mags would go in a dump pouch with loose ammo, and youd replace the empty mag pouch with a fresh mag. As time allows you could reach in the dump pouch and top off empty mags, then move to the cargo pocket. Rinse and repeat as necessary. While it may not be the MOST effective formula, it will be more beneficial than running pouches you will never use in a defensive capacity (assuming defensive fighting is your context).

    Also, sort of unrelated, but I think the pouch on the back of the Marine's plate carrier is a triple 40mm pouch... looks too small to be a flashbang pouch, and would make sense that a buddy could grab those if needed.
    Click to expand...


    There is iron in your suggestions on ammo management for all to see.....

    1603652369529.png


    Much how Im used to running things.

    Often when I ask questions here though I find some fantastic solution thats never been done befo.
     
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    Choid said:
    Trade up to Wilson ETM 8 rounders with the square springs. by the time you are running 8 mags, you are getting one free!!! They work flawlessly as well.

    Its a good question since most "tactical" classes put a lot of rounds through your gun. Many more than reasonable, but it is good practice. Running one with a 1911 is not dumb, since if our new overlords have their way we might all be limited to ten rounds, and in that case, a 1911 is a no brainer. Interested to see what you come up with.
    Click to expand...


    I have full faith and confidence in Wilson mags of any flavor.......

    but........

    JMB surely had his reasons.
     
    pmclaine said:
    I have full faith and confidence in Wilson mags of any flavor.......

    but........

    JMB surely had his reasons.
    Click to expand...
    Well, he was in a low cap world. The early 8 rounders didn't work as well because they were crappy springs in 7 round tubes, but the newer generation is a no brainer. You are losing a step sticking with 7s, even thought they work fine.
     
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    I have some 8 round Wilsons and Chip McCormick from over 10 years ago and have never had a problem out of them in 2 different 1911s..

    Granted I don't shoot .45 as much as I once did but we can saw the words thousands of rounds out of 10 different mags trouble free.
     
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    The Esstac KWYI pouches are where it’s at man. I don’t have a 1911 but I can vouch for the quality and fit on their double stack pistol and rifle pouches. So no reason to doubt their 1911 pouches aren’t just as great. I’ll never buy another type of Mag pouch again (except for AICS pouches, which they don’t make unfortunately).

    They come in single, double, triple, and quad pouches that can be run with belt loops or molle. I have a dedicated set on my gun belt (molle attachments) and some standalone sets with the belt loops. I run a Belt Man belt w/ a stiffener and don’t have problems fitting the belt through the kydex loops...unlike some kydex loops out there.

    Give em a look and I hope the class goes well for ya 🍻
     
    When I used to shoot a lot with 1911s, the best solution that I found was carrying either 3 or 4 mags on my belt (bullets forward) with Esstac KYWI pouches - I would recommend the ones with a gap, unless you're used to performing reloads from the frontmost pouch with a magazine, as sometimes with baseplates the magazines are extremely close together and can be tough to grasp quickly.

    I also had a number of full 1911 mags in my pockets to refill those pouches, or even in an admin belt pouch or dump pouch. I love the 1911, but it sure is easier to carry more ammo on your belt in double-stack magazines!
     
    Choid said:
    Well, he was in a low cap world. The early 8 rounders didn't work as well because they were crappy springs in 7 round tubes, but the newer generation is a no brainer. You are losing a step sticking with 7s, even thought they work fine.
    Click to expand...


    I'll reassess. I can evolve.

    Got a WTB in the PX hoping someone went Glocktard and has some quality mags laying around.

    Brownells is out of what I am looking for so got an email into Wilson to see if they offer and discounts to cheap bastards.
     
    502Chevelle said:
    Don’t forget to mark your mags. Easy to end up with a ton of similar mags on the ground when taking a class. I hope you have a good time and learn lots of good stuff.
    Click to expand...

    In August I was the only person shooting .45.

    The only 1911 was a 9mm.

    I do mark em all still....

    image.jpg
     
    on my main rig, i only carry 1 pistol mag, and thats on my belt.

    when i do pistol only classes, i still keep that same configuration, and toss all my extra mags in my dump pouch.......when i use my belt reload, i replace it with a full mag from my dump pouch.


    if im going to be doing a lot of running or rolling around, ill use an admin pouch instead of a dump pouch.
     
    it should come down to-
    What type of class?
    What do you want to learn and improve?


    If you are mainly a self defense person, wear self defense gear.
    So your IWB holster and 1-2 mag holder...

    It's fine to keep a cargo pant pocket full of extra mags. Between strings, you can replace a depleted magazine.



    I would never encourage someone to train with gear that they wont use for the task......
    Inside the waist band is horrible to IPSIC / IDPA


    IDPA drop holster is horrible for CCW...


    Build clean muscle memory. Always reholster with the safety on.


    So.. run the gear with how the gun will be used.... some places don't allow appendix carry for a class...


    The point of the class is to learn more... improve... not get a silly score on a test...
     
    Made up my mind.

    Im staying status quo.

    Though its only a pistol class I will use the two combo AR/Pistol pouches I have and keep things familiar.

    Extra mags will be in dump or cargo.

    Got good sense here, I was thinking the wheel may have been reinvented and I had not seen it.

    On other news....two good things today.....

    1. Did some training today with simunitions that allowed me to use my plate carrier.

    Worked great but found some minor gear moves to make it better.

    Ill be comfortable incorporating it into training when appropriate

    2. Registered with WC for mil/leo discount. Pretty generous. Ill be buying all those mags I'm gonna carry soon.
     
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    SporterII said:
    I am curious as to why the seven rd. Mags instead in the eight. neither are flush from what I have seen.
    Click to expand...

    Familiarity.

    109 years of people getting it done with 7.

    All of my other mags are 7.

    Maybe Ill buy four 8s. Based on people confirming their reliability worse that can happen is that I through muscle memory remove them at 7.
     
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    I got to ten. Uspsa with diplomat mags then later 10 rd metal form and Wilson 9mm mags. Then 10 rds on PRS. I got a cadence and ten was it. Understood.
     
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    Had my class yesterday.

    Had 9 magazines in total, 1 in gun, 2 in belt mag pouch, the balance in a dump pouch hanging at 1900 off my ass. The tenth mag was in the spare gun I brought in case something happened to the primary gun. I fed the gun from the belt, the belt from the pouch. Empties went to the floor or the cargo pocket.

    I used my Combat Commander and have sufficient skin abrasion to prove it. Ran great. Not on unintended malf through 314 rounds of live fire.

    We shot indoors so we all had to use Frangible ammo.

    I was the only one of 8 using .45.

    Everyone else was shooting some form of Sig with 13 to 17 rounds per mag.

    It went really well.

    Most important thing that concerned me was proper operation of the thumb safety, especially when reholstering. I didn't find myself forgetting through lack of muscle memory to sweep on or off.

    Instructors gave me grief for being from the last century. During one excercise they wanted us to to shoot our magazines clear before break. While everyone else went dry I still had a couple mags left and the comment was made that the last century guy was still shooting.

    I got way more reload practice than other classmates.

    In a rifle class a 1911 would be no handicap as pistol use is only a couple shots to back up a malfunctioning or empty rifle.

    Thing I learned.....

    A factory ejection port sucks for clearing dummy round drills. Loaded ammo will fly clear when racking the slide but the COAL of Sig dummies must be longer. In drills intended to be "tap, rack, reload" I would have to strip the mag for the dummy to drain out the mag well than feed a fresh mag.

    Second thing was I need to get better at retention reloads and before taking the empty mag from the gun and stuffing it in a cargo pocket have the topped off mag in hand and feed it right in. Most of my training is hit the button and let the useless mag fall free while feeding in a topped off mag and that "over training" for that sçenario made me sloppy.

    So go forth "1911 Men" and you truly are men and show those 9mm people how it is done.
     
    Last edited:
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    pmclaine said:
    We shot indoors so we all had to use Frangible ammo.
    Click to expand...

    What in the actual fuck............WHY?

    I've shot in over a dozen indoor ranges over the last 15 years and not once did they give a fuck about that.
     
    308pirate said:
    What in the actual fuck............WHY?

    I've shot in over a dozen indoor ranges over the last 15 years and not once did they give a fuck about that.
    Click to expand...


    On steel at 5 yards? The look of small pox scaring will not go well with my fair skin.

    Ammo prices were actually reasonable for today's standards.

    I was in for $168/314 rounds.

    I know not great, especially as I'm sitting on a bunch of sub $.50 ammo but not knowing what costs will be this time next year.....I'm not upset that I didn't hit my stockpile.
     
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