- Thread starter Strykervet
- Start date
Lmao I am on a phone and typing quickly. Punctuation is not always caught by the phone. Thanks for your useless input.
Hi,
And the "specifications" get changed and changed again in order to meet the other more important contractual obligations.
.Mil/.Gov tenders, solicitations and procurements place as much emphasis IF not more on other line items on the contract than the quality of the equipment themselves.
Depending on how the tender is written the chosen company has to provide x amount of new jobs.
Depending on how the tender is written the chosen company has to allow for x amount of returns.
And last but not least...the chosen company typically must sign off that the contract can be cancelled at any time by .mil/.gov but NEVER by them. This narrows the .mil/.gov pool down quiet substantially.
Sincerely,
Theis
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Never expect quality from an item designed by a committee.
Isn't there some guy that actually refers to himself as AK Jesus that is one if these YouTube "influencers" (what a job right?) Maybe he is the reason for the demand.
I have spent a lot on MK12s. I don't have any delusions that they are the best option when building an SPR, but I think they look the coolest so whatever.
They also work well for a majority of the shooting I do: blasting swine/does and target shooting 1-500 yards.
Leupy MK4s are definitely the biggest "WTF" in the clone game optic-wise
They also work well for a majority of the shooting I do: blasting swine/does and target shooting 1-500 yards.
Leupy MK4s are definitely the biggest "WTF" in the clone game optic-wise
- Nov 3, 2010
- 8,632
- 17,474
I get it. Some people like pickups, some people like cars. Some want a muscle car, some want to run 10 seconds with an ole beater diesel pick up, or a rocket school bus. What great world.
What's wrong with people building what they want?
Earlier this year, I cloned a Russian Maxim Ski sled. And an amusette cart. And a British Rampart wall mount from the Khyber pass. Last year it was a Mountain Howitzer and a Mk13-Mod 0 (actually built by the original builder... I just scrounged the parts.)
I am in the process of building a clone of the Jack Hinson Civil War rifle (One Man's War)...
Why? Because I want to see how one shoots. Because it's an amazing story. Because it's a neat gun. Because it is a chance to do some hands-on history. Because it may answer some questions that are out there (about whether he really used some kind of minie) when it comes time to shoot it.. Because it will be cool!
And because I can. Oh and because 'I can' also means that I can build it (or a lot of it) myself. In the end, my labor rate ends up being about $0.25 per hour. But that's not the point. Building things (or restoring things) is a huge source of pleasure.
For those who can't build things... no developed skills, no facilities, no access to the 'stuff' needed to do a build -- the answer is you pay someone to do it. And THEIR time, expertise, facilities and markup all cost money.
If someone wants to pay to get their dream clone... more power to them. If someone wants to to sell their time, expertise, machine time, consumables and parts for a good markup to a willing buyer. 'Merika!!!
Cheers,
Sirhr
Earlier this year, I cloned a Russian Maxim Ski sled. And an amusette cart. And a British Rampart wall mount from the Khyber pass. Last year it was a Mountain Howitzer and a Mk13-Mod 0 (actually built by the original builder... I just scrounged the parts.)
I am in the process of building a clone of the Jack Hinson Civil War rifle (One Man's War)...
Why? Because I want to see how one shoots. Because it's an amazing story. Because it's a neat gun. Because it is a chance to do some hands-on history. Because it may answer some questions that are out there (about whether he really used some kind of minie) when it comes time to shoot it.. Because it will be cool!
And because I can. Oh and because 'I can' also means that I can build it (or a lot of it) myself. In the end, my labor rate ends up being about $0.25 per hour. But that's not the point. Building things (or restoring things) is a huge source of pleasure.
For those who can't build things... no developed skills, no facilities, no access to the 'stuff' needed to do a build -- the answer is you pay someone to do it. And THEIR time, expertise, facilities and markup all cost money.
If someone wants to pay to get their dream clone... more power to them. If someone wants to to sell their time, expertise, machine time, consumables and parts for a good markup to a willing buyer. 'Merika!!!
Cheers,
Sirhr
There, their, there ...........
LOL........earlier this year we started looking into making .gov contracts more of our revenue stream. I started the process of getting us setup on SAM.gov.........then I got to the part where the .gov's terms are laid out.
LOLOLOL, that's where the process stopped.
Owning a clone has never appealed to me, despite my occasional references to my M4gery. I refer to a type, not a version.
My rifles are mine, different for reasons, and never intended for sale. They are whimsical in the sense that they feed a whim of mine; each updated to serve a particular purpose.
To be truthful, I don't expect them to appeal to anyone besides myself. They are intended to shoot well, and sometimes they do. They are as inexpensive as possible because I'm one of whom The German refers to a "Poors", in mind, if not in fact. My money is spent to buy capability, not notoriety.
Greg
My rifles are mine, different for reasons, and never intended for sale. They are whimsical in the sense that they feed a whim of mine; each updated to serve a particular purpose.
To be truthful, I don't expect them to appeal to anyone besides myself. They are intended to shoot well, and sometimes they do. They are as inexpensive as possible because I'm one of whom The German refers to a "Poors", in mind, if not in fact. My money is spent to buy capability, not notoriety.
Greg
BTW, if anyone wants to clone this... I am happy to provide details.
Sirhr
Government is all of those things that it labors to outlaw.
Pirates, monopolies, money launderers, thieves, frauds, and liars, usually under innocuous invented labels. They can do anything they want, except what they claim to be the best at.
It is a parasite; insatiable, with the mind of a predator.
For a brief respite, we have had welcome relief, but like all such interludes, the prior state returns with a vengeance.
We are in for meaner times.
Resist.
Sauce for the goose.
Pirates, monopolies, money launderers, thieves, frauds, and liars, usually under innocuous invented labels. They can do anything they want, except what they claim to be the best at.
It is a parasite; insatiable, with the mind of a predator.
For a brief respite, we have had welcome relief, but like all such interludes, the prior state returns with a vengeance.
We are in for meaner times.
Resist.
Sauce for the goose.
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I have watched more companies destroy themselves trying to pursue that mythical "Government Contract" than I can count.
If they want your stuff... really want it... they will seek you out. Don't structure your entity hoping to hit it big on pork. The process is so horrible as to be un-printable here.
Once you get in the gravy train? Well, it can be incredibly profitable. 99.9 percent of companies that follow the siren song of that mythical contract, however, end up smashed on the reef of failure. Even getting on the GSA schedule can utterly destroy your 'Non-Gov' sales and ability to move with markets.
Smart move.
Sirhr
I had a customer with a well known, one letter, one number name. They build large power supplies for the military. Our company (US Subsidiary of German parent company) has dealt with them off and on over the years. As such, there are German laws that prohibit German companies from selling/exporting their products to foreign governments/militaries (Yes, I know about H&K, SIG, etc., but lets consider this different for the sake of illustration). Our products are power electronics, commercial in nature.
It's been an "on again/off again" relationship.
So, we have a new opportunity with this company. Having had prior experience with all of their bureaucratic BS, one of the first things that I did was to ask them for a copy of their terms and conditions, which they sent to me. 28 pages. There's a big clue right there. The first is that any buyer of your goods has T&C's to begin with. But, it's pretty commonplace these days. Second clue is that the T&C's were 28 pages long.
So, I played the game and reviewed the T&C's and as you can imagine, I/we took many exceptions to the clauses contained in the T&C's. We bled red ink all over the document. Making a long story short, after many go arounds with the customer, they said "OK, really, we understand your concerns and we can work this out". (They really did want our product). They said "we'll go back through and adjust our T&C's for your comapany and get this taken care of". About a week later, I receive the new T&C's and begin to review them. The only thing that happened was that a couple if insignificant clauses had been removed, resulting in nes T&C's, 27.5 pages in length.
I advised our management to just walk away. They took my advice.
Clones are cool. Over priced for sure in some cases.
See what you need to see
No it’s not... I did it that way on purpose!! ;-)Your front sight is on backwards.
Sirhr
also found a great kids video on where babies come from and why they need to be destroyed apparently someone named ocd (aoc) thinks they taste like chicken or cotton candy .
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that packaging overpromises and under delivers...
Cloners are 100% nerds.
It's just another aspect of the shooting hobby that some people enjoy.
I have made rifles that are practical with modern up to date and lightweight parts, but doing research and trying to find a specific rare or unusual parts adds a bit of fun to it.
It's just another aspect of the shooting hobby that some people enjoy.
I have made rifles that are practical with modern up to date and lightweight parts, but doing research and trying to find a specific rare or unusual parts adds a bit of fun to it.
What? You’ve never built a car, huh? Especially not a mopar, and definitely not a hemi
Mopar. Mopar and break the bank go together like peas and carrots. Lol. There is a reason that restored non hemi cars can get 6ish figures. Also there are no more readily available parts in the go fast car world than mustang parts.
I own a couple clones. Only reason is because they are rifles I got to enjoy while I was a little more high-speed/low drag. Now that I'm older and more of a low-speed/acceptable drag kind of guy, I like to at least play with toys that are very much exact to the toys that have left me with fond memories. I surely don't feel they're superior in anyway to a lot of other stuff out there, nor are they worth more because I call it a mk12 or m40. And I've paid more for some parts than I care to admit. But sometimes the metal is worth more to me than the money in order to make the clone "right". We've all spent money on shit other people call stupid. Its a beautiful thing we can do that in this country
I've had some clone guys want this KAC rifle that was sent to me brand new a few weeks ago. Apparently according to Knights I'm the only Civilian with one of these .gov contract rifles. Slipped through the cracks I guess. Told me I'm a lucky SOB. So I guess its not a clone of its the real thing.. KAC guys are some of the most die hard clone folks and its nuts that what some pay for their older or rare parts. Especially the M110 clones.
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Never a mopar, no. I never said anything about a restoration either. The numbers matching game doesn't interest me much, though I do appreciate a concours restoration. If I ever did build a mopar it would be a junkyard jewel.
Mopar isn't in my wheelhouse though and I don't doubt it could get expensive. I'm a ford/gm kind of guy. I'm thinking about picking up a 67-69 F100 for a three generation project between my oldest son, myself and my father. Maybe even the crown vic conversion. When we're done, my son would keep the truck.
Peas and carrots are gross too. I don't think they go to together at all.
I helped a friend do the crown Vic front half on his f150 he even kept the 2v 4.6 (I wasn’t a fan of that, he wanted turn key no power truck lol) man that truck handles so freakin good and sits perfect! I have a 65c10 mine rides like a dump truck compared to his.Never a mopar, no. I never said anything about a restoration either. The numbers matching game doesn't interest me much, though I do appreciate a concours restoration. If I ever did build a mopar it would be a junkyard jewel.
Mopar isn't in my wheelhouse though and I don't doubt it could get expensive. I'm a ford/gm kind of guy. I'm thinking about picking up a 67-69 F100 for a three generation project between my oldest son, myself and my father. Maybe even the crown vic conversion. When we're done, my son would keep the truck.
Peas and carrots are gross too. I don't think they go to together at all.
I’m a poor so I probably won’t ever own a “correct” clone. I do enjoy making my rifles closely resemble military issue weapons. Collecting parts right now to do an M16A1. Will it have a tear drop forward asssit? Nah. Am I worried about the fence next to the mag release? Nope. It’ll have a 20” barrel and triangle grips and an A2 upper. *gasp* Doing it because I want to and I can and it’s going to make me super happy when it’s done. I even did an AR10 in FDE to “resemble” the M110. Do I care what KAC owners think of my Aero M5? Not a chance. I can say with certainty, I’ll never own a rifle that costs 25k when that amount of loot would put close to 25 different rifles in my safe. Just my .02$.
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