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🚨Got / using a pistol brace?🚨

elfster1234

elfster1234

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Jun 3, 2012
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    ATF Letters Archives | SB Tactical

    Our products are designed and intended only for use as forearm braces to provide a more stable firearm platform. They are neither designed nor intended to be fired from the shoulder. As configuration changes may alter the classification of a particular firearm, the user bears sole...
    www.sb-tactical.com www.sb-tactical.com
     
    20201127_212749.jpg


    madppcs said:
    Cant watch at work. Youtube is blocked. WHats the video about?
    Click to expand...
     
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    ATF should be declared a domestic terrorist organization
     
    This has been the stance of SB since the very beginning. Nothing has changed excpet the ATF's ruling.
     
    Anyone who bought a brace in the last year of Obama or anytime during the Trump years should have had this in the back of their mind as a possibility, I don't think braces will be made illegal. I think the ATF will just re-reverse and go back to making shouldering a brace illegal.
     
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    IrishWind said:
    Anyone who bought a brace in the last year of Obama or anytime during the Trump years should have had this in the back of their mind as a possibility, I don't think braces will be made illegal. I think the ATF will just re-reverse and go back to making shouldering a brace illegal.
    Click to expand...

    This was played out a few years ago. ATF ruled them illegal and then after being talked off the ledge, reversed their ruling. Folks were told by ATF that braces were now legal to purchase. What are you to do, not buy anything gun related because the ATF could make them illegal???
     
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    BullGear said:
    This was played out a few years ago. ATF ruled them illegal and then after being talked off the ledge, reversed their ruling. Folks were told by ATF that braces were now legal to purchase. What are you to do, not buy anything gun related because the ATF could make them illegal???
    Click to expand...

    Recoil (or was it Concealment) wrote a nice article about the Brace and the ATF in the middle of the first year of the Trump Administration. It is worth a read. The brace was never illegal. It was after a year of of gun owners/manufacturers trying to get the ATF to allow braces to be more than that is when they put the brakes on and wrote the opinion that shouldering a brace is now an illegal act since the brace was never designed to be a stock. Then on 20 Jan 2017 the ATF reversed and said they did not care. Coincidence on the date? I think not. And with the likelihood that Biden will be the next President, then it shouldn't surprise anyone that the brace might be regulated back to the 19 Jan 2017 status. I don't have a crystal ball, but I don't see the ATF banning braces yet. Maybe just telling their owners that they better strap them to their forearms if they plan on using them. Worse case is they have to be Form1, 200$ check written, and your pistol is now an SBR.

    And I won't stop buy guns and parts. Just be smart about not buying things that appear to be end runs around existing laws.
     
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    Summary:

    Brace = SBR at such time as ATF decides to prosecute you.

    Please correct me if I misunderstood.
     
    The ATF is not a legislative body. They can't make things legal or illegal, at all.

    IF you were to be charged because their 'interpretation' doesn't match yours, they'd have to prove it to a judge/jury's satisfaction.

    There are already laws on the books and if they don't specifically specify an item as illegal, it's inherently legal.

    Doesn't mean you won't have a fight on your hands in court and I'm not a lawyer. Having said that, I'm getting tired of all the whining and worrying about what the ATF thinks.
     
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    500grains said:
    Summary:

    Brace = SBR at such time as ATF decides to prosecute you.

    Please correct me if I misunderstood.
    Click to expand...

    If/when the ATF changes position again:
    Brace = SBR when you use the brace as a shoulder stock.
    Using brace as designed perfectly legal.

    I'm curious if those screaming mad about this issue and own braces even know how to use the brace as the inventor planned, or if they even once tried it out using it that way.
     
    I have always had the mindset that braces were going to be taken away unless you have true need for one. that said, I buy a pistol with one on it just so I don’t have to wait for the sbr stamp to come in before I take it home.
     
    IrishWind said:
    If/when the ATF changes position again:
    Brace = SBR when you use the brace as a shoulder stock.
    Using brace as designed perfectly legal.

    I'm curious if those screaming mad about this issue and own braces even know how to use the brace as the inventor planned, or if they even once tried it out using it that way.
    Click to expand...

    The issue is the ATF is trying to get into the collective heads of the people who own these braces. They are trying to mandate a person's intent. How can that be?
     
    What chaps my ass is gun folks thinking that going right up to, but not past, a legal line that seemed clearly defined, is somehow wrong or foolhardy. This is nothing new. That is why there is a line. If you stay on the legal side of that line that should be enough.

    One of my fav hunting honey holes is a 1 mile square of public land surrounded by private land. Last year I dropped an antelope at 638 yards , 80 feet from the unmarked property line. BUT I had been out there with the gps and knew exactly where the line was so I took a VERY legal shot and dropped it where it stood. I was close to a defined line but still on the legal side of it. No foul.....

    Furthermore, if you think this is about braces you are delusional. When the ATF pulled this crap with bump-stocks, intelligent 2Aers knew where that precedent was headed. The atf is flexing their muscles to create ambiguity and increase their power. They want to legislate through bureaucracy and on the fly.

    2Aers need to fight these new power-grabs with everything we have or this just will not end well for us. We need to find legislators that will help rein in the atf via budget, legislation etc.
     
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    Max said:
    What chaps my ass is gun folks thinking that going right up to, but not past, a legal line that seemed clearly defined, is somehow wrong or foolhardy. This is nothing new. That is why there is a line. If you stay on the legal side of that line that should be enough.

    One of my fav hunting honey holes is a 1 mile square of public land surrounded by private land. Last year I dropped an antelope at 638 yards , 80 feet from the unmarked property line. BUT I had been out there with the gps and knew exactly where the line was so I took a VERY legal shot and dropped it where it stood. I was close to a defined line but still on the legal side of it. No foul.....

    Furthermore, if you think this is about braces you are delusional. When the ATF pulled this crap with bump-stocks, intelligent 2Aers knew where that precedent was headed. The atf is flexing their muscles to create ambiguity and increase their power. They want to legislate through bureaucracy and on the fly.

    2Aers need to fight these new power-grabs with everything we have or this just will not end well for us. We need to find legislators that will help rein in the atf via budget, legislation etc.
    Click to expand...

    I agree but the ATF cannot be allowed to regulate the intent of an individual. The mandate is perfectly fine the way it is written. They don't need to mandate any more into this policy. But it actually isn't about the ATF changing anything. It's the ATF thinking they can make changes on their own.
     
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    BullGear said:
    The issue is the ATF is trying to get into the collective heads of the people who own these braces. They are trying to mandate a person's intent. How can that be?
    Click to expand...

    They don't. They'll wait for people to shoulder the stock and post pics/video onto social media. Or just happen to be at the range that day and witness an arm brace being shouldered. How many at the range are also off duty police getting their time in and can't help notice?
     
    IrishWind said:
    They don't. They'll wait for people to shoulder the stock and post pics/video onto social media. Or just happen to be at the range that day and witness an arm brace being shouldered. How many at the range are also off duty police getting their time in and can't help notice?
    Click to expand...

    I doubt they will be manning the ranges. I've been shooting MGs and suppressors for years and I have never had anyone ask for my paperwork. One range requires you to tell them if you're going full auto and they place you at the end of the range, so that you don't disturb other shooters. Still nothing.
     
    I doubt the ATF will be going undercover at ranges too. But how many dumbasses are out there and are willing to do dumb stuff and then post the evidence online? Odds are the ATF will not have to go looking, it will fall in their laps.
     
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    Popular Youtubers will be the canaries. There are plenty of them posting videos shouldering their braced guns. Until some of them get frog-marched away, the rest of you are relatively safe. Keep your head, and your ass, down...
     
    Calling people dumbasses for doing something legal, plays very well for the ATF. But who’s side are we on here?

    If shouldering a brace becomes prima facia of redesign to an nfa item, think of the effect of such a precedent. Bump-firing, holding a rifle in one hand using the pistol grip and a myriad of other behaviors will suddenly become subjected to the same close scrutiny. Just imagine the possibilities of random enforcement for the ATF. Meanwhile we’re like “well they shouldn't have done it at the range in front of an undercover agent.” 😳

    Now I have seen people time and time again refer to getting a brace as a workaround to filing for an SBR. That is very different and CLEARLY shows intent to circumvent NFA laws. In short that makes one a dumbass and is clearly illegal. The atf has spelled that out clearly.
     
    ATF "Does" tell you what is legal and illegal through "Letter Rulings", remember when they ruled a shoestring was a MG? I don't know that anyone was ever prosecuted under that absurd opinion, but I guess it was possible.
     
    Is this an illegal mod to a pistol brace?
    SB Tactical actually has a rubber butt pad on theirs, so I don’t see the difference. Clarification would be appreciated.
     
    Last edited:
    I just won’t comply.

    first, ATF can’t make laws.
    second, I have something called, 2nd amendment and rights.
    third, I WONT comply
    fourth, if they come they better bring a lot of people

    Doc
     
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    Guess I’ll be expecting the ATF to come knocking on my door any minute.
     
    I think I've figured it out. Fed agencies must have blocked porn sites from office pc's.
     
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