Archimedes?

Kimber.204 said:

I picked up a new Mausingfield at the beginning of 2019 and loved it. When you send the bolt forward the handle just gets sucked down - it was very smooth and fast. I liked it better than my TL3. However, for me, I thought the bolt lift on the Mausingfield was a bit too heavy. Not heavy as in I can barely open this bolt, heavy as in it messed up my natural point of aim (NPA) in rapid fire stages. When the Archimedes came out I initially ignored it due to being a 3-lug action which typically have a heavier bolt lift than a 2-lug action. But the interweb experts told me that it was a light bolt lift than the Mausingfield....so I sold some stuff and bought one. I ran the Archimedes for the 2020 season then I sold my Mausingfield and my Eliseo Tube gun with a Defiance action.

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Good feedback.

What trigger did you have in the Mausingfield, and was it properly timed?

That makes a huge difference. I have a BnA Tacsport in mine which I've timed, my friend has an identical Mausingfield but with a Huber. My bolt lift is incredibly light, his feels ~2-3x heavier. It's a significant difference.

I have a TL3 and an Archimedes. Side by side the Archimedes is a better running action. The TL3 bolt feels smoother in the raceway if that is important to you. The Archimedes in a Xylo chassis and the TL3 in a T4A mini chassis.

In my personal opinion, they never gained traction because Ted is not a fan of PRS style shooting. He mentioned this in his interview for the Modern Day Sniper Summit. He, like many, is not a fan of the contrived courses of fire. That was my read on his position.

I have never seen a sponsored shooter running ARC actions.

Companies like Impact made sure top shooters had their 737 actions in hand. Ted should do the same if he wishes to continue his growth. Of course his production would have to meet demand.

For the record I've never owned any of his products.

kthomas said:

What trigger did you have in the Mausingfield, and was it properly timed?

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I was using a Timney Calvin Elite 2-stage. No, I did not time it, I simply dropped it in.
I still have the Calvin Elites on a couple hunting rifles, but for my comp guns and trainers I've switched over to Tubb T7T and it's fantastic.

Does timing the action/trigger combo change the feel of the bolt lift? I thought it only affected closing the bolt. I'll have to read up on that.
Thanks,
Ross

I had both the gen 1 nucleus and mausingfield and never had any issues with Huber, tt, geissele, or mod 22 triggers in either. Oddly to date my favorite action has been the nucleus (cycles very well and prefer the less than 90 degree actions) but I ended up ordering the Archimedes as I am building a longer magnum. Just FYI, even though they didn’t show in stock I ordered from ARC and they shipped the same day. They have drastically improved their customer service in the last couple years so I would suggest calling if you need any help deciding.

Kimber.204 said:

I was using a Timney Calvin Elite 2-stage. No, I did not time it, I simply dropped it in.
I still have the Calvin Elites on a couple hunting rifles, but for my comp guns and trainers I've switched over to Tubb T7T and it's fantastic.

Does timing the action/trigger combo change the feel of the bolt lift? I thought it only affected closing the bolt. I'll have to read up on that.
Thanks,
Ross

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While I'm not a gunsmith, and a gunsmith will be able to speak much more intelligently on this, but in my experience it can have a very perceivable effect.

In my experience, too much sear engagement will absolutely result in both heavy bolt lift and close. Two fresh examples in my mind is my friends Mausingfield + Huber versus my Mausingfield + BnA (very noticeable difference), as well as a Bighorn TL3 + TT trigger I owned for a hot minute, which again had too much sear engagement and resulted in very excessive bolt lift and close.

I used a Calvin in my G1 Mausingfield and the result was frustrating with pretty heavy bolt lift.

Later I bought a TT which lessened the bolt lift effort right away. Then I timed it, cut off a coil on the firing pin spring, polished cocking surfaces, and all that indeed improved the cocking effort to a decent feel.

xdeano said:

another question.

How are they with fine dust, gravel or even snow? Some years up here it can blow crazy and the fine dirt can get into everything. Snow is a different cat, it can melt, and freeze causing issues.

From what I understand is that the Archimedes action isn't a tight action in the fact that there is clearance. Im guessing that it should self clear for the most part.

Thanks guys
Deano

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I can speak somewhat to the dust situation. I quit throwing gravel in my guns when I upgraded from a Red Ryder and if it's snowing out, then I'm calling coyotes and that doesn't usually require a lot of bolt cycling.

I have two Archimedes and run one in 223 and another currently with a 6x47L barrel spun on. I live in New Mexico and we have some of the windiest conditions combined with moon dust and it really will get into everything. I have never in the history of either action had a failure to feed or extract. I'm running Foundations currently on both, with Hawkins and KMW bottom metal. I even tried some old MDT 223 poly mags that I had never been able to get to feed with either a Bighorn or an Impact and they fed well. I will say that timing your trigger to your action is very important if you care about the feel of the action. ARC has it pretty much figured out now, which cocking piece goes with which triggers and will ship the one you need if you tell them what trigger you plan on using. I got whichever one goes with a TT Diamond for the 223 action and then switched to a Tubb T7T and it changed the feel a bit, but it's still very good. As far as the extraction being a gimmick, I don't know how it would be if it works and there's no real trade offs. The action still cycles like a champ and with less force and considerably less rotational force.

I still really like my Mausingfields quite a bit, but the Arch is a close second to me. I also have Surgeons, Bighorns, Badger 2013, Impact and probably some more I'm forgetting about and I really like these two actions the best. I would agree that if Ted decided to sponsor some shooters, they would probably light up in the PRS/NRL world in a hurry. I don't fault him for not doing it. He sells a lot of actions to people that use them primarily for hunting.

I think it's also nice that all of the ARC actions have the same head space. Makes it real easy to swap back and forth from MF, to Nuke to Arch. Or you can throw on a Savage pre-fit barrel with a barrel nut. In the opening post it mentions someone with only negative things to say about the Archimedes. Makes me wonder if they've ever used one.

If you live anywhere near New Mexico or are rolling through on I-40, let me know and we can bang some steel or call some song dogs and you can make up your own mind.

To preface this, I don't own an Arch myself. A good friend of mine has one with a 223 barrel spun on, B n A trigger and dropped in a Manners T2a. From the brief finger fucking I gave it, the thing feels pretty damn awesome. Cycles like a dream. Definitely has a different feel to it vs other more traditional actions but in a good way. I'd definitely get one if the price difference vs a Nuke wasn't so large up in Canada.

As far as ARC reliability goes, I've run my gen 1.0 Nucleus in ~0 ° F temperatures with moderate/heavy snow and gusting 40mph winds for a full day during white tail season with zero issues. It reliably went "bang" when I needed it to and I have no doubt that my newer 1.1 will be the same in such conditions.

ARC Nucleus 1.0 with a 19lb striker spring and TT Special single stage trigger for reference.

I have one of the Arch pre-order actions. They sent it to me then asked me to send it back because they found an issue with the new actions. No big deal. New stuff, new problems. Sent it back and had it returned to me within one week. Went with a TT and installed it in the action. No go. Hit up ARC and told them what was going on....send it back to us and we will fit your TT to your action...no charge. Had it back in one week again. So.....CS , IMO is TOP SHELF! I chose the action because it is a three lug. Call me crazy, superstitious, or full of shit, but I love three lug actions!
I put this all in a MPA chassis with a 6x47 barrel. Rifle will shoot .2 all day. Took it to a match and put about 120 rnds through it in the rain. Cpl issues. #1- Don’t put together a rig costing cpl K and expect to use cheap MagPul mags. I had feeding issues all day. Could be chassis issue or could be that a pure bread action needs some quality mags. Picked up a cpl Accurate mags and no more feeding issues. #2- action throws brass like a champ when you are running it hard. Lost a few pieces of brass cause it will chunk it to the next zip code if you run it hard. Not a huge issue, just a little idiosyncrasie of the way the extraction works. #3- on last stage of match I had a light primer strike. Not sure why, and only had one. Will be monitoring this to see if it continues or was a fluke.
Bottom line- I have several other custom actions and were I to build another rifle I would DEFINITELY use the Archimedes. Great product and great company!

JM4590 said:

I have one of the Arch pre-order actions. They sent it to me then asked me to send it back because they found an issue with the new actions. No big deal. New stuff, new problems. Sent it back and had it returned to me within one week. Went with a TT and installed it in the action. No go. Hit up ARC and told them what was going on....send it back to us and we will fit your TT to your action...no charge. Had it back in one week again. So.....CS , IMO is TOP SHELF! I chose the action because it is a three lug. Call me crazy, superstitious, or full of shit, but I love three lug actions!
I put this all in a MPA chassis with a 6x47 barrel. Rifle will shoot .2 all day. Took it to a match and put about 120 rnds through it in the rain. Cpl issues. #1- Don’t put together a rig costing cpl K and expect to use cheap MagPul mags. I had feeding issues all day. Could be chassis issue or could be that a pure bread action needs some quality mags. Picked up a cpl Accurate mags and no more feeding issues. #2- action throws brass like a champ when you are running it hard. Lost a few pieces of brass cause it will chunk it to the next zip code if you run it hard. Not a huge issue, just a little idiosyncrasie of the way the extraction works. #3- on last stage of match I had a light primer strike. Not sure why, and only had one. Will be monitoring this to see if it continues or was a fluke.
Bottom line- I have several other custom actions and were I to build another rifle I would DEFINITELY use the Archimedes. Great product and great company!

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The only light primer strike I've had so far was operator error. I either didn't fully close or bumped my bolt handle up while on the clock and got a light strike. I was pretty puzzled until someone that watched me shoot the stage chimed in. Shit happens as they say.

Variety is the spice of life

If the only thing the lever handle did was remove the feel of primary extraction from the bolt lift, then I'd be game. The fact it can rip stuck cases out effortlessly is nice to have in my back pocket, but not the reason I like it.

I've got the 6x47L Arhcimedes running a TT Diamond at about 10oz. No issues and very smooth. One pound should be no problem at all.

I’ve got the Diamond at around 1 pound and it works great with the Archimedes .

I'm shooting an Archimedes short action in 6.5 PRC. Trigger Tech Diamond set at 10ozs with zero issues. Its a very smooth action and I prefer controlled round feed actions. You won't be disappointed.

craigos said:

i have 2 - one in 6GT in a Xylo and one a Dasher in a Manner PRS MCS. I have ran tempests, tl3s , defiance , AI and regular rems and like these a great deal. They run real fast and feel slick. my preferred action by far

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I'd like to hear a detailed comparison of the Xylo vs Manners. I'm more comfortable behind a stock and haven't run a chassis yet that has felt as at home to me. Xylo has me intrigued

7mmSTW said:

I'd like to hear a detailed comparison of the Xylo vs Manners. I'm more comfortable behind a stock and haven't run a chassis yet that has felt as at home to me. Xylo has me intrigued

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I handled the Xylo exactly once, but it made a huge impression. I would not comment except it seems like we share a bias towards stocks. IMO, if there is a stock like feeling chassis, it is only the Xylo. Maybe that new Woox thing too, but it lacks all the full chassis features for me.

First, I am a stock guy. I run an A6 PRS and AG adjustable hunter. I have bought and sold, XLR, MDT, Ashbury, McRees G10, and a couple more probably. I liked them, but exactly none really felt good to me, even though I tried to like them. I am just not a chassis guy.

I saw and held a Xylo at SHOT when first introduced. It was the only chassis I have ever felt like I would own. It had all the benefits of a chassis but felt like a stock when handling it. Since then, that is really the only chassis that interests me. It made a huge impression. I fondled all the chassis and stocks that year. Only the A10 and Xylo were really different.

Most of the feel for me is the grip. I am not a chassis/AR grip fan. I spent a lot of thought about grip shape vs. hand shape, getting it built out asymmetrical for trigger function, etc. I was really thinking about it seriously. I spent probably 20 min at that show talking with Phil at the MPA booth about everything I disliked about chassis grips. Showed him how his grip positioned my hand in relation to the trigger, why it was sub optimal, where I would want it built out, etc. So, from my perspective, grip and feel was high on my mind.

Going back to Xylo, Ted, being the crazy genius he is, went out of the box with his walnut grip. That big blocky chunk of walnut just felt natural to me as handling a stock. He solved the grip problem in a simple and elegant way. Shape the walnut like you want, but it was perfect for me. It felt like a stock when I held it. All the other features of the Xylo look fantastic and much improved since I saw it at SHOT.

I have two "regrets" of deals I passed up. My second biggest regret is not getting the Xylo on preorder.

My first regret is not getting the Nucleus Xylo rifle for $2,000.00.

I would have bought the rifle if I hadn't made a decision to stop buying stuff I won't be shooting. The next thing I will build is a big 300 mag for short ELR target fun, a 300 Sherman Max in a long action Archimedes in a Xylo chassis.

I might sell my A6 and get a short action Xylo for my match gun, if a smoking deal popped up in the PX. But, I am limiting how much I change crap on my primary rifles. I already do it too much with barrel swaps.

Just one little data point on the Xylo...

Quick question. Does anybody know if ARC does a mil discount? I am about to pull the trigger on a complete rifle and wanted to ask before I bothered them as they are probably pretty busy. Thanks

I have thought about how to write something about the Xylo that would be meaningful and not just fill space with my opinion. I haven't come up with a lot frankly. I could tell you that I really like it and that it feels very comfortable to me, but that doesn't mean it will be great for you.

I do like that it's worked with every rifle I've put in it. That includes a Vudoo 22 that's in it right now. I do like that you can change the LPO in a second. I do a bunch of coyote calling and sometimes find myself in some off spots for 30 minutes at a time. It's nice to be able to change the stock up, instead of removing a rib to make it possible to shoot uphill from a downhill position. I think it's easy to like with all the thoughtful engineering he put into it. I like the grip just as it came from ARC, but I've seen some nicely done personalized work that makes me consider doing something like that myself. I like the adjustment of the cheek piece as well as how it feels. I would say the only think I could say negative is that the stock is aluminum, so if it's cold outside, then the stock is butt cold on the forend. Don't know how to easily work around that. The grip and cheek piece still feel good in comparison.

Since it's gotten cold, I've been using either a Foundation Exodus or a KRG X-Ray. Neither of those materials are as cold as aluminum. We don't get as cold here as you do in ND. I've really only ever been to Minot and that was in September. I'd always heard there was a good looking chick behind every tree. There's not too many trees though.

No way I choose a chassis for cold... I am an AZ desert boy, lol.

My hands freeze holding binoculars with gloves, and the temps aren't ever much below feeezing at the coldest in the mountains, lol.

It's the biggest thing stopping me from getting a Xylo right now. Sucks having gloves freeze to a chassis while holding it during the winters up here. Used to use solely MDT chassis. Switched to mostly KRG and just can't bring myself to willingly go back.

My hunting rifle has a McMillan, its as friendly as most stocks when it comes to the cold. I'm looking for using the Xylo on my field match gun. I just feel like I'm faster in and out of position and more stable when running a stock. I like the adjustability of a chassis, as well as the fact ARCA rails built on are inherently more solid than those bolted on.

xdeano said:

I dont hear much or see much about the American Rifle Co Archimedes actions. A good friend of mine is negative towards the action. But I didnt get a good reason. So who's actually using this action? How is it and if negative why?

Is the action a true break through or is it a gimmick? Be honest about your thoughts it wont hurt my feelings.

Thanks guys!
Deano

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Your buddy hate his enough to sell it? I'm looking to buy one.

LR51 said:

Your buddy hate his enough to sell it? I'm looking to buy one.

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His buddy has never even held one or his opinion would be different.

I wonder if some walnut panels on the forend would address the cold issue. Would probably look classy as hell too.

How much time do you spend touching the forend? Will you be shooting offhand a lot? I pretty much only shoot mine prone or from a tripod, neither scenarios require holding the forend.

Or you could wear gloves.

I like the idea of walnut side panels.... For unique looks.... I too smart to shoot in the cold

Seems like the colder it is, the more I have to use my hands!

I would agree that the real culprit when it's cold out is the binos. I think it's the combination of the cold binos and having your hands in the position with your fingers up and the blood draining down. But once they're cold, touching an aluminum stock just to move it around just makes it worse. I haven't found a pair of gloves that will keep your fingers warm when you're glassing with binos for a few hours.

xdeano said:

another question.

How are they with fine dust, gravel or even snow? Some years up here it can blow crazy and the fine dirt can get into everything. Snow is a different cat, it can melt, and freeze causing issues.

From what I understand is that the Archimedes action isn't a tight action in the fact that there is clearance. Im guessing that it should self clear for the most part.

Thanks guys
Deano

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Where in Nodak are you. I have an arch and am in the Jamestown area but shoot nrl matches around the state

xdeano said:

Im up by larimore. I get down to jamestown every once in a while. You ever make it up to mcville for the shoot. A good friend owns the property there and ive helped him set targets etc.

deano

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Mark? Yeah, Im the one who approached him about hosting Frank and Marcs Precision rifle class up there this next year. Great guy.

Damn I, glad this thread popped up. I’ve been tossing around a new action for a month and I keep coming back Arch. I like the concept and the ideas and innovation. The fact that so many guys are running it successfully has me sold. Done deal.

My LA arrived at the LGS today and it is awesome. Got to fondle it for a bit before they stuck it away for California’s 10-day wait.

@xdeano I don't think this will be the case.....but if you don't like the Archimedes....PM me, then you won't have to bother with a PX ad.

Good luck and Enjoy!
Ross

gnochi said:

My LA arrived at the LGS today and it is awesome. Got to fondle it for a bit before they stuck it away for California’s 10-day wait.

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WOW! No wonder people are leaving CA in record numbers.....My Arch is due in next week. I've got a Bartlein Left twist Carbon barrel on order.

scott5456 said:

WOW! No wonder people are leaving CA in record numbers.....My Arch is due in next week. I've got a Bartlein Left twist Carbon barrel on order.

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I have an armory, a CCW permit, an 03FFL, a state “Certificate of Eligibility”, and I still have to wait at least 10 days for the state to decide I’m not a danger to myself or others >.<

I get paid enough to deal with the hassle, at least, and the other big option for my specialty is Detroit... which hell no.

gnochi said:

My LA arrived at the LGS today and it is awesome. Got to fondle it for a bit before they stuck it away for California’s 10-day wait.

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You never know when someone is gonna spin up a barrel, turn it onto a custom action, bed the stock (that took a year to get) and go rob a liquor store....

M4guru said:

You never know when someone is gonna spin up a barrel, turn it onto a custom action, bed the stock (that took a year to get) and go rob a liquor store....

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Hey, makes sense... At least to liberals.